Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne

[TX_Angel]

I see.....I think.

 

So, all this rage I'm reading is because you will not be able to get bis gear within a few weeks as you would normally, and therefore you cannot faceroll content a month after the expansion has released? There has got to be more to this anger surely.....

 

The real problem is... why even have level 70? What's the point? People have now had to replace their gear once, from lvl 60 to 65, with no new content... Now level 70, again no new content...

 

I have toons in 220/224 gear, why should I go run TFB again to get whatever the lvl 70 gear is? I've done that already...

 

I think if we were getting 2 new ops with 5.0, you wouldn't hear NEARLY this much grip... lack of content is the problem...

[Psychopyro]

The real problem is... why even have level 70? What's the point? People have now had to replace their gear once, from lvl 60 to 65, with no new content... Now level 70, again no new content...

.

I'll go even one further...

 

Why have gear at all? I mean seriously? We get scaled down if we do lower level content. We get scaled up if we do higher level content. In all seriousness, is there really a point. Just make us grind the CXP and as we level it, we can set our set bonuses and secondary stats like an alternate advancement...

 

Sure crafting would have to be reworked, but I don't think they ever really took crafting seriously as a dev team anyways...

[nyrkverse]

I haven't read the whole thread so it's possible some of these questions have been asked already but I have read the DevTracker and they haven't been answered yet.

 

1) Is the new gear dropping from Command Crates static or moddable? Are we going to be able to pull out single mods, hilts, enhancements, switch them around, send them to alts?

 

2) If it's static gear, are there going to be different versions of the same pieces? Say Chest mk-A has alacrity, Chest mk-B has crit and if I want to run more crit I need to be even luckier with the drops?

 

note: If it's static gear with no alternate versions, I hope the people who gave us alacrity on tanking gear back in the day when even for dps it was a wasted stat or the ones responsible for the defense overload on current tanking gear don't work for you anymore (but by the look of things they have been promoted so no worries there )

 

3) Most classes, save for Marauders/Sentinels and Snipers/Gunslingers, have access to different roles (tank/dps or heal/dps). Is there going to be a system in place to at least make sure I'm not getting tanking gear when I'm trying to gear my Assassin DPS and viceversa?

 

4) Is current (lol) endgame group content going to be upscaled to level 70? Will bolster still be in place for PvP, storymode operations and flashpoints?

 

5) Is Galactic Command legacy wide or am I supposed to start from scratch on every alt I'd like to gear up?

[MelsterY]

can i save up GC crates and open them at a higher GC level to get higher gear?

or does an GC lvl 1 crate have "GC lvl 1" rating even if i open it at lets say gc lvl 50

Edited October 18, 2016 by MelsterY

[TX_Angel]

I'll go even one further...

 

Why have gear at all? I mean seriously? We get scaled down if we do lower level content. We get scaled up if we do higher level content. In all seriousness, is there really a point. Just make us grind the CXP and as we level it, we can set our set bonuses and secondary stats like an alternate advancement...

 

Sure crafting would have to be reworked, but I don't think they ever really took crafting seriously as a dev team anyways...

 

I said that back when 4.0 dropped and level sync came out... and I was laughed at... by a lot of people no longer in the game...

 

You're right of course, gear has become pointless, I don't even bother gearing up anymore, you get enough random drops and crap in the world to take care of everything while leveling, then get to level 65 and... gear for what? End game content? Meh, done it all, not interested...

 

I have a few DvL toons that are level 65 and in random greens and blues... haven't even bothered spending common data crystals to put 208 on them, why bother? Don't need it for anything...

[Psychopyro]

I haven't read the whole thread so it's possible some of these questions have been asked already but I have read the DevTracker and they haven't been answered yet.

 

1) Is the new gear dropping from Command Crates static or moddable? Are we going to be able to pull out single mods, hilts, enhancements, switch them around, send them to alts?

 

2) If it's static gear, are there going to be different versions of the same pieces? Say Chest mk-A has alacrity, Chest mk-B has crit and if I want to run more crit I need to be even luckier with the drops?

 

note: If it's static gear with no alternate versions, I hope the people who gave us alacrity on tanking gear back in the day when even for dps it was a wasted stat or the ones responsible for the defense overload on current tanking gear don't work for you anymore (but by the look of things they have been promoted so no worries there )

 

3) Most classes, save for Marauders/Sentinels and Snipers/Gunslingers, have access to different roles (tank/dps or heal/dps). Is there going to be a system in place to at least make sure I'm not getting tanking gear when I'm trying to gear my Assassin DPS and viceversa?

 

4) Is current (lol) endgame group content going to be upscaled to level 70? Will bolster still be in place for PvP, storymode operations and flashpoints?

 

5) Is Galactic Command legacy wide or am I supposed to start from scratch on every alt I'd like to gear up?

1 thru 4 really have no definitive answer.

 

Funny thing on 3 as of now, is that daggers and sniper rifles will drop for Scoundrels (shotgun and OH pistol will drop for Snipers), and Focuses still drop for maras and sents. I would hope they track this down and fix it.

 

5) is per character, not legacy...

[Psychopyro]

I said that back when 4.0 dropped and level sync came out... and I was laughed at... by a lot of people no longer in the game...

 

You're right of course, gear has become pointless, I don't even bother gearing up anymore, you get enough random drops and crap in the world to take care of everything while leveling, then get to level 65 and... gear for what? End game content? Meh, done it all, not interested...

 

I have a few DvL toons that are level 65 and in random greens and blues... haven't even bothered spending common data crystals to put 208 on them, why bother? Don't need it for anything...

 

Yea, my DvL characters I did not even get gear for till I hit 65. I literally ran around in empty unmodded gear. I.E. no stats at all except my level 7 MH/OH and my datacron stats... Got them all to 65 basically naked with nerf bats and guns equipped.

[HomerMorisson]

I see.....I think.

 

So, all this rage I'm reading is because you will not be able to get bis gear within a few weeks as you would normally, and therefore you cannot faceroll content a month after the expansion has released? There has got to be more to this anger surely.....

 

The main reasons of annoyance for me personally are rather that:

 

• You cannot gear up following a planned route like you used to be able before 5.0
  
• You cannot plan in advance which of your guildies gets what token in advance anymore, thus gearing a whole raid group could potentially take ages if even only one of them has constant bad luck with RNG crates
  
• Since F2P/Preferred players now are effectively completely locked out from getting BiS, or even any kind of set gear, they are no longer valid at all to take with on HM FPs or HM/let alone NIM OPs... they have thus effectively become second-rate players in now all relevant regards, which will severely limit the amount of players available to do HM/NIM content in the first place, especially on empty servers.
  

[HomerMorisson]

The real problem is... why even have level 70? What's the point? People have now had to replace their gear once, from lvl 60 to 65, with no new content... Now level 70, again no new content...

 

I have toons in 220/224 gear, why should I go run TFB again to get whatever the lvl 70 gear is? I've done that already...

 

I think if we were getting 2 new ops with 5.0, you wouldn't hear NEARLY this much grip... lack of content is the problem...

 

Well there is new content, the uprisings... and according to stream, from january onwards, they'll be releasing 8 player uprising content apparently too; in this regard we'll just have to wait and see how this feels and pans out.

[Dr_Nex]

The main reasons of annoyance for me personally are rather that:

 

• You cannot gear up following a planned route like you used to be able before 5.0
  
• You cannot plan in advance which of your guildies gets what token in advance anymore, thus gearing a whole raid group could potentially take ages if even only one of them has constant bad luck with RNG crates
  
• Since F2P/Preferred players now are effectively completely locked out from getting BiS, or even any kind of set gear, they are no longer valid at all to take with on HM FPs or HM/let alone NIM OPs... they have thus effectively become second-rate players in now all relevant regards, which will severely limit the amount of players available to do HM/NIM content in the first place, especially on empty servers.
  

Lol HM FPs has bolster. I've cleared plenty og HM FPs with level 50s and no 65s. It's much more about mechanics. If you're requiring augged 224s to do HM FPs, lol @ you.

[TX_Angel]

Well there is new content, the uprisings... and according to stream, from january onwards, they'll be releasing 8 player uprising content apparently too; in this regard we'll just have to wait and see how this feels and pans out.

 

Yes, more hope... I don't believe them anymore... Look at the great hype of Eternal Championship... what a joke that was...

 

When was the last time we got a new event? Oh no, Gree again, then Bounties again, then... yea, I stopped caring...

 

I'll bet you 5 bucks it doesn't make January...

[Kazanth]

Sounds great to me.

[HomerMorisson]

Lol HM FPs has bolster. I've cleared plenty og HM FPs with level 50s and no 65s. It's much more about mechanics. If you're requiring augged 224s to do HM FPs, lol @ you.

 

Upload a vid of you with 50s with ****** gear doing the HM bonus bosses, especially the one from Battle of Rishi; then we can talk about who has the last laugh.

[HomerMorisson]

Yes, more hope... I don't believe them anymore... Look at the great hype of Eternal Championship... what a joke that was...

 

When was the last time we got a new event? Oh no, Gree again, then Bounties again, then... yea, I stopped caring...

 

I'll bet you 5 bucks it doesn't make January...

 

The grindy character of Eternal Championship aside, I really liked and still like that addition - in fact I think it should be made mandatory for new players to have to complete all 10 rounds of Eternal Championship before they can ever even list themselves for HM/NIM content - that way they'd at least once been forced to think about their class' mechanics/overall mechanics like interrupts, CC, stuns, prioritizing targets, movement, etc pp.

Edited October 18, 2016 by HomerMorisson

[DansbyRotten]

These changes sound terrible, but I shouldn't be surprised by them.

[Deaconik]

Ehm, to all those "raiders" who are worried about new raid members.

 

Eric stated that you will be able to craft the new "224" gear. If the crafting isn't changed and you still craft it from the purple things from Operations, you can have full "224" sets(without set bonus, obv.) in your guild bank waiting for new people. Thus you care only about those 7 true set gear pieces from the crates.

 

So now the question is how fast the progression rate will be and how furious the RNG will be. because this sounds better for raiders, imagine running through 5 operations in a row and having the basic gear for all the people in OPS. Now you cannot do that. Though if the progression rate will be too slow then ... it's bad. If we run 8 times S&V(or equivalent number of OPS bosses/OPS(not sure from what I get the points)) and we don't have 8 sets I will be furious.

 

Anyway, all this sounds good if the gear is transferable through legacy gear sets we currently use. If I can move my set from shadow to assassin and back, this sounds good. But the fact Eric hasn't posted about legacy gearing kinda scares me...

[Deaconik]

The grindy character of Eternal Championship aside, I really liked and still like that addition - in fact I think it should be made mandatory for new players to have to complete all 10 rounds of Eternal Championship before they can ever even list themselves for HM/NIM content - that way they'd at least once been forced to think about their class' mechanics/overall mechanics like interrupts, CC, stuns, prioritizing targets, movement, etc pp.

 

So you would lock healers and tanks behind Eternal Championship wall so they can do the DPS check there. Cool idea! I think this should be implemented so all the DPS players spamming fleet for healers or tanks all day long can wait even longer.

[HomerMorisson]

Ehm, to all those "raiders" who are worried about new raid members.

 

Eric stated that you will be able to craft the new "224" gear. If the crafting isn't changed and you still craft it from the purple things from Operations, you can have full "224" sets(without set bonus, obv.) in your guild bank waiting for new people. Thus you care only about those 7 true set gear pieces from the crates.

 

So now the question is how fast the progression rate will be and how furious the RNG will be. because this sounds better for raiders, imagine running through 5 operations in a row and having the basic gear for all the people in OPS. Now you cannot do that. Though if the progression rate will be too slow then ... it's bad. If we run 8 times S&V(or equivalent number of OPS bosses/OPS(not sure from what I get the points)) and we don't have 8 sets I will be furious.

 

Anyway, all this sounds good if the gear is transferable through legacy gear sets we currently use. If I can move my set from shadow to assassin and back, this sounds good. But the fact Eric hasn't posted about legacy gearing kinda scares me...

 

Two factors render the "F2P/Prefs can get crafted gear"-idea basically useless though:

 

• I am sure you are, as we all are, aware of what high end crafted gears costs even now? Several million credits for a 220 versatile hilt, a couple hundred grand for just one 224 mod? There is no way in hell that the average F2P/Pref player will be able to get their hands on crafted high end gear, simply because they will never sell for less than 350k credits / piece, which is the maximum amount of credits non-subs can have at any time.
   
  
• And even if(!) they found a crafter, maybe from their guild, who would be altruistic enough to craft them this high end gear whose materials are more expensive than those paltry 350k credits, they'd still be pretty much useless for anything but HM FPs at best; I know I wouldn't want to tackle HM OPs, let alone NiM with players that don't even have a single set bonus... and since the crafted high end gear will not have set bonuses, they are once again second-rate players in this regard.
  

 

I'm not saying that come 5.0 it would be completely impossible for F2P/Pref players to get somewhat competitive end game gear... but I am saying that the bar will be set so high that most likely a lot of players will not bother at all... I at least foresee the majority saying "Screw this, I'm not subbing just for gear" instead of going "Yeah, with BWEA taking so much away from me that I could do before, I will reward them by subbing!".

[Deaconik]

Two factors render the "F2P/Prefs can get crafted gear"-idea basically useless though:

 

• I am sure you are, as we all are, aware of what high end crafted gears costs even now? Several million credits for a 220 versatile hilt, a couple hundred grand for just one 224 mod? There is no way in hell that the average F2P/Pref player will be able to get their hands on crafted high end gear, simply because they will never sell for less than 350k credits / piece, which is the maximum amount of credits non-subs can have at any time.
   
  
• And even if(!) they found a crafter, maybe from their guild, who would be altruistic enough to craft them this high end gear whose materials are more expensive than those paltry 350k credits, they'd still be pretty much useless for anything but HM FPs at best; I know I wouldn't want to tackle HM OPs, let alone NiM with players that don't even have a single set bonus... and since the crafted high end gear will not have set bonuses, they are once again second-rate players in this regard.
  

 

I'm not saying that come 5.0 it would be completely impossible for F2P/Pref players to get somewhat competitive end game gear... but I am saying that the bar will be set so high that most likely a lot of players will not bother at all... I at least foresee the majority saying "Screw this, I'm not subbing just for gear" instead of going "Yeah, with BWEA taking so much away from me that I could do before, I will reward them by subbing!".

Ehm, again, as long as the crafting is unchanged - meaning crafting materials drop from operations - raiding guilds can craft tons of that stuff. Our raid leader has around 300 of those things and he keeps selling them regularly so we can enhance our flag ship.

 

Yes, solo F2P players are screwed. I agree on that.

[Korprus]

You will still get gear from all of the normal sources pre-70. Flashpoint bosses, Mission drops, etc. The only exception is that you can no longer get gear for Commendations. The planetary vendors which sold mods for Commendations will now do so for credits instead.

 

-eric

What kind of gear exactly these vendors will sell? Gear equivalent to commendations gear (like 216/200 without bonus sets)? Or some old gear?

[Ceinwyn]

Hey folks,

 

One of the things we talked a bit about on the stream is that there are gearing changes happening with Knights of the Eternal Throne. This thread is meant to give you a few more details on some of the things that will be happening in KOTET, along with being a place that I can address questions or concerns you have with these changes. First, here are the details on how gearing will work at level 70:

 

<snip>

 

That should cover most of the basic changes coming to itemization in KOTET. I know this is a lot to take in, so please ask any questions you may have in this thread and I will work to answer what I can!

-eric

 

Come on, BW. This is a pretty significant change with a lot of flow on effects. When someone puts an idea forward like this, isn't there a team that sits around identifying those effects and relevant solutions and/or responses that your player base is going to need once you announce it? Why not include a "here is what we anticipate you're going to ask" part in this thread and allay some concerns? Why is your player base responsible for identifying these issues and asking what you're going to do about it?

 

I admit I'm only part way through this thread and people have already raised a whole bunch of issues you had to have anticipated. How is legacy gear affected? Can gear (or mods) be transferred between characters? Since comms are disappearing how do we gain rank 6 companion gifts, through command crates? Etc. etc.

 

Help us fill in the blanks and next time, preemptively, if you can manage it.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Ceinwyn
changed last line

[HomerMorisson]

So you would lock healers and tanks behind Eternal Championship wall so they can do the DPS check there. Cool idea! I think this should be implemented so all the DPS players spamming fleet for healers or tanks all day long can wait even longer.

 

Granted, for them it would be tougher/more tedious, but yeah... especially tanks need to learn interrupts, taunts, aggro management, sensible use of def cd's... maybe Eternal Championship isn't the most ideal way to do that, but I still maintain that no one profits from all those pesky 60 token n00bs that never even played their class through story, have zero idea of how their mechanics work but still list for hard content.

 

I literally had a tank without crystals in either main/offhand, because he liked the original color of his lightsaber better, list himself for HM OPs, I've seen Sorc DDs listing themselves as heals for HM OPs and thinking they could be a benefit to the group by spamming Dark Heal and then complaining no one's is waiting on them when they are out of force... which of course was every other second.

 

Instead of constantly casualising and n00befying OPs (again, see Underlurker nerf because people were too stupid to tell left from right), I'd advocate implementing a proper and mandatory end game class mechanics-tutorial, without which you couldn't even join OPs.

 

Or at the very least make it mandatory to have cleared the SM for any given OP before being allowed to enter HM/NIM (or Expert/Master, I guess it is called now).

 

This would in the end benefit all sides, because really if today you get kicked from a HM/NIM OPs group for being too bad a player, tomorrow you won't even get considered anymore, because news travels fast among those few hardcore raiding teams still left.

Edited October 18, 2016 by HomerMorisson

[HomerMorisson]

Ehm, again, as long as the crafting is unchanged - meaning crafting materials drop from operations - raiding guilds can craft tons of that stuff. Our raid leader has around 300 of those things and he keeps selling them regularly so we can enhance our flag ship.

 

Yes, solo F2P players are screwed. I agree on that.

 

Okay, even given this optimal case, it still wouldn't change the fact that even if a F2P player had the 224 equivalent crafted gear, he still wouldn't be ready for the new Master level of Operations, which used to be Nightmare... because for Nightmare you need those set bonuses, and those cannot be crafted.

 

The main problem I see with this is that currently skilled F2P-players just pick up a pass and go raiding, whereas with 5.0 skilled F2P players are either forced to sub completely, then gear up again through RNG grind, to then ultimately be able to go on Master OPs, or they will simply quit raiding altogether.

 

I fear the latter will happen much more often than the former, thus meaning that a sizeable number of skilled raiders will leave the game for good.

[Deaconik]

Granted, for them it would be tougher/more tedious, but yeah... especially tanks need to learn interrupts, taunts, aggro management, sensible use of def cd's... maybe Eternal Championship isn't the most ideal way to do that, but I still maintain that no one profits from all those pesky 60 token n00bs that never even played their class through story, have zero idea of how their mechanics work but still list for hard content.

 

I literally had a tank without crystals in either main/offhand, because he liked the original color of his lightsaber better, list himself for HM OPs, I've seen Sorc DDs listing themselves as heals for HM OPs and thinking they could be a benefit to the group by spamming Dark Heal and then complaining no one's is waiting on them when they are out of force... which of course was every other second.

 

Instead of constantly casualising and n00befying OPs (again, see Underlurker nerf because people were too stupid to tell left from right), I'd advocate implementing a proper and mandatory end game class mechanics-tutorial, without which you couldn't even join OPs.

 

Or at the very least make it mandatory to have cleared the SM for any given OP before being allowed to enter HM/NIM (or Expert/Master, I guess it is called now).

 

This would in the end benefit all sides, because really if today you get kicked from a HM/NIM OPs group for being to bad a player, tomorrow you won't even get considered anymore, because news travels fast among those few hardcore raiding teams still left.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I would love to have such wall with proper healing/tanking content! Oh boy, how would I love that! I would be in the healing/tanking version of Eternal Championship all day long But right now we have only DPS check which tells nothing about healer or tank.

[Nevaeh-Heaven]

The real problem is... why even have level 70? What's the point? People have now had to replace their gear once, from lvl 60 to 65, with no new content... Now level 70, again no new content...

 

I have toons in 220/224 gear, why should I go run TFB again to get whatever the lvl 70 gear is? I've done that already...

 

I think if we were getting 2 new ops with 5.0, you wouldn't hear NEARLY this much grip... lack of content is the problem...

 

What was the point of level 65? or 60? or 50? going by your post what's the point of having a level at all. The game moves on, part of that is always going to be a level increase.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Nevaeh-Heaven