Why Macros belong in TOR.

[touc]

I'm against adding macros to this game because it just makes everything easier. I don't want pvp to be easier; I want to have to actually target my cc target and use my camera angles. I had over 40+ buttons in WOW because of macros and the only reason why I used them was because they gave me an edge in pvp and nearly everybody else used them. I'm against combat macros because they make the game easier and makes the player have to do less. I'm against this way of thinking for pvp.

[NightHawke]

Funny how things change, back in the day macro users were comsidered cheaters because it was a tool that eliminated hand eye coordination and finger speed. Now if you cant use them youre considered a noob.

 

But aren't cheaters noobs? Not all noobs are cheaters.

 

Macro users are......

 

 

 

What happened a long long time ago, in a MMO far far away, is that people were using macros. And yes it was cheating, I mean, the EULA and the Conduct thingamabob said, no using macros (aka outside application that interfaced blah blah blah).

 

These games finally said "Screw it!" yes, they actually said that, "We are going to give macros to everyone so the weak will have a chance to stand up against the lame!"

 

And so it began, macros were given to all.

[Zarthorn]

Considering the majority of players I've encountered in warzones up to this point backpedal and keyboard turn, it wouldn't require any more than basic competence.

 

I backpedal and keyboard turn sometimes, because some points of certain maps have issues with the camera snapping wierdly when mouse turning and if I just need to backpedal slightly to be in range for say a force leap or saber throw, you bet I'm going to do it.

 

Also keyboard turning can be preferable sometimes, say I need to inch just slightly to get a perfect positioning to force push someone off a bridge, yup I'm gonna do it.

[_compton_]

And now that they've proliferated, not to use them is effectively gimping yourself.

 

No one can argue that macros are a more efficient way to accomplish certain tasks. This increases the speed and fluidity of combat.

 

The key word is competitive. As a competitor, you use every advantage given to you, and do your best to perform in an optimal matter. Bottom line, if all variables are equal other than macro usage, the side using macros will have a distinct advantage.

 

So if you want truly competitive PvP, macros are going to have to be involved. Particularly in the case of focus and mouseover macros, nothing changes tactically. It's simply a more efficient, more effective way of accomplishing the same task. Period.

 

@Above poster, the level of precision in movement that can be attained through a combination of mouse turning and strafing is superior to that which can be attained through keyboard turning, assuming equal competency with both forms of movement.

Edited December 28, 2011 by _compton_

[Battousaien]

I thought I was pretty clear as well. Thank you.

 

The OP is not advocating one-button-mashing macro's. Neither am I. And I'm sure the vast majority of people that speak positive for this cause don't want that kind of macro either.

 

It's like all you naysayers think that the only use for macros is to load up all your skills in one button and mash away or to make goldfarming bots. That is so far off from the truth as you can get.

[swishers]

Macros? **** all that noise. There isn't enough end game or hard content where you need to have perfect rotations, which is largely what macros are used for with a few healing exceptions here and there or ease of use buttons (throwing all your long cooldown spells on 1 button instead of 3 for example).

 

I'd kill for a focus target, a target of target, targeting / combat through the target of target and raid/party frames that show aggro though. That **** is ridiculous to not have in. Especially the ToT and aggro.

[bruttusone]

so from what i see, some people wanna have an I win button, whille the most people don't wanna have it

 

i admit, there are sometimes moments that i think, that we need some usefull ads or macro's are needed, but just the basic's, like where is the dude go who i'm guarding

but i still like to play the game, instead of seeing numbers and symbols, i like to focus more on mine toon

but for the rest, why you need an I win button, now you need to think what action you gonna do to defend or kill that person, what gear you gonna wear for pvp or pve use youre brain instead, and sort youre I win skills out manually

Edited December 28, 2011 by bruttusone

[Yewcantcme]

Please demonstrate your sound grasp of macro mechanics by explaining the function of both focus and mouseover macros, and how they "destroy combat, make gameplay lazy, and eliminate skill from the game."

 

I could write you a 5 page report on the disadvantages of macro usage. Fact is, I quite frankly don't have the patience. I have watched numerous MMOS crumble before my eyes as un-needed patches like these are pushed into the game by whiners. I watched my favorite MMO of all time, Age of Conan, go from a great pvp-focused game into a game left deserted for pvpers, with all attention focused on pve content and dumbing down combat. I've seen it too many times to have the patience for it again, or the plaeyrs pushing it.

 

Just for the sake of my previous posts though, I will grant you a reply. I know what focus macros are, I know what mouseover macros are. It's actually common knowledge for any MMO player to have a solid understanding, since most MMOS put these disappointing features in game. They destroy combat by combing multiple abilities, depending upon their uses and cooldowns, into single spammable button. Usually, you can put as many abilities into these macros as you like, making combat into "SMASH Button 1 for ownage".

 

Usually, you can literally place your entire combat rotation into a few spammable keys that both make combat lazy and unefficient. They take away the attentiveness associated with combat. For instance, if I have a "BackStab" ability only useable from behind in a game without macros, I would really have to concentrate on CC uses and movement to be able to perform this ability during live combat. With macros, however, I would just have to smash my 1 key over and over again, allowing that backstab ability to be used during combat the SECOND I got behind the person. It completely takes away attentiveness and immersion involved with combat in my opinion.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Yewcantcme

[Akash]

Even if you use macros, you will most likely have at least one hotbar full of commands. All macros do is enable you to bring more abilities to bear in a shorter amount of time and make efficient use of cooldowns.

 

I don't like to mouse click. I would rather use my mouse for movement. It just feels more natural for me.

 

I don't know about WoW, I played it about a week and moved on. But Rift does an exceptionally good job with macros, and a lot of the game is studying your abilities, their cooldowns, situational uses, and figuring out a rotation to work in that respects situational awareness. There is a lot of testing and number crunching with that system which adds a certain technical aspect to the game that I enjoy. It adds to my play experience.

[Huttonscott]

I understand Macros are good for some people but not all people use macros, and when eveyone is not given the opportunity to use the macros, that creates a unfair balance in PVP. So for right now BIOWARE thinks it's better to have no macros vs. 2 million people playing with macros.

[thewayshemoves]

I don't get why people say having macros means you should learn to play. Macros were another feature of the game (any other mmo I've played) that if you were good at managing you had an upper hand against people who didn't. What I wouldn't give for some targeting macros to make cc easier against more than one target. It obviously doesn't make me invincible but with tab being quirky sometimes, it would be a welcome addition. I don't think any class in this game would have an "I win" button with macros. It would just give some of us who learned to utilize that aspect of the game some ease and support, and would give others something more to learn, which is never really a bad thing. If you don't want macros, then you could just not use them. There's no reason people who would use them shouldn't have them, especially as content at end game grows.

[_compton_]

I could write you a 5 page report on the disadvantages of macro usage. Fact is, I quite frankly don't have the patience. I have watched numerous MMOS crumble before my eyes as un-needed patches like these are pushed into the game by whiners. I watched my favorite MMO of all time, Age of Conan, go from a great pvp-focused game into a game left deserted for pvpers, with all attention focused on pve content and dumbing down combat. I've seen it too many times to have the patience for it again, or the plaeyrs pushing it.

 

Just for the sake of my previous posts though, I will grant you a reply. I know what focus macros are, I know what mouseover macros are. It's actually common knowledge for any MMO player to have a solid understanding, since most MMOS put these disappointing features in game. They destroy combat by combing multiple abilities, depending upon their uses and cooldowns, into single spammable button. Usually, you can put as many abilities into these macros as you like, making combat into "SMASH Button 1 for ownage".

 

Usually, you can literally place your entire combat rotation into a few spammable keys that both make combat lazy an efficient. They take away the attentiveness associated with combat. For instance, if I have a "BackStab" ability only useable from behind in a game without macros, I would really have to concentrate on CC uses and movement to be able to perform this ability during live combat. With macros, however, I would just have to smash my 1 key over and over again, allowing that backstab ability to be used during combat the SECOND I got behind the person. It completely takes away attentiveness and immersion involved with combat in my opinion.

 

You neglected to demonstrate any knowledge of the macros that are being discussed in this thread. The example you cited is not the type of macro that this thread or most of its proponents are advocating for the implementation of.

Edited December 28, 2011 by _compton_

[Akash]

It was correctly pointed out earlier, however that just because the game does not support macros does not mean macros won't be used.

 

USB port hardware/software can have macros programmed in that will surpass anything a game developer could reasonably come up with. The folks that use this stuff really do have an advantage, and I guarantee you they are already using it.

 

Having in-game macro support simply allows the rest of us to compete, as there is simply no way you could detect someone using a macro from an external device, as it doesn't interact at all with the game program.

[klathnagma]

I understand Macros are good for some people but not all people use macros, and when eveyone is not given the opportunity to use the macros, that creates a unfair balance in PVP. So for right now BIOWARE thinks it's better to have no macros vs. 2 million people playing with macros.

Here you nail it Hutton. Most people advocating to avoid macros are those that are intimidated with the macro mechanics so they prefer to have everyone gimped at their level instead of letting people sort their UIs to they way they see it better.

 

Pretty much like a car driver advocating to have fixed seat and steering wheel's positions so he don't have to learn the cockpit drill.

[_compton_]

It was correctly pointed out earlier, however that just because the game does not support macros does not mean macros won't be used.

 

USB port hardware/software can have macros programmed in that will surpass anything a game developer could reasonably come up with. The folks that use this stuff really do have an advantage, and I guarantee you they are already using it.

 

Having in-game macro support simply allows the rest of us to compete, as there is simply no way you could detect someone using a macro from an external device, as it doesn't interact at all with the game program.

 

Fully support this statement, it's essentially reiterating what many of us have been saying: our interest in the implementation of macros with official support is not self-interest, our interest is in the continued development and improvement of PvP in TOR.

[Yewcantcme]

You neglected to demonstrate any knowledge of the macros that are being discussed in this thread. The example you cited is not the type of macro that this thread or most of its proponents are advocating for the implementation of.

 

I demonstrated an example of ONE type of macro.

 

Mouseover macros, for example, would allow you to scroll your mouse over another player, use an ability, such as a heal, and then it would trigger without having to actually click the player.

 

This makes combat lazy by )1. promoting mouse-use for targetingg, rather than utilizing keybindings for targeting teammates/players and using the mouse for turning the screen, or )2. by having this type of macros, healers (for example) would have to stay out of the combat to have a clear view of any teammates in danger. A healer's job is not just to heal, this is certain in any game. Healers are very reliable classes, capable of both dps and ccs. Since Mouseover macros pretty much require the healer to have a clear view of the situation, it means they're out of the fight concerned with healing only, thus, utilizing only a portion of their given ability.

[Rakorra]

I demonstrated an example of ONE type of macro.

 

Mouseover macros, for example, would allow you to scroll your mouse over another player, use an ability, such as a heal, and then it would trigger without having to actually click the player.

 

This makes combat lazy by )1. promoting mouse-use for targetingg, rather than utilizing keybindings for targeting teammates/players and using the mouse for turning the screen, or )2. by having this type of macros, healers (for example) would have to stay out of the combat to have a clear view of any teammates in danger. A healer's job is not just to heal, this is certain in any game. Healers are very reliable classes, capable of both dps and ccs. Since Mouseover macros pretty much require the healer to have a clear view of the situation, it means they're out of the fight concerned with healing only, thus, utilizing only a portion of their given ability.

 

Your right, and this is argurious <3 where u been?

[LaManoNera]

I don't like macros because...where do you draw the line? With things as polarizing as macros and mods, you're never going to be able to implement them satisfactory. And being that they ARE so polarizing, are they even that important to begin with?

 

I've been playing MMOs since AO perfectly fine without macros or mods. Yes, we used to do that

[touc]

Why do you want this game to be easier in pvp? I like having to do more.

[_compton_]

I demonstrated an example of ONE type of macro.

 

Mouseover macros, for example, would allow you to scroll your mouse over another player, use an ability, such as a heal, and then it would trigger without having to actually click the player.

 

This makes combat lazy by )1. promoting mouse-use for targetingg, rather than utilizing keybindings for targeting teammates/players and using the mouse for turning the screen, or )2. by having this type of macros, healers (for example) would have to stay out of the combat to have a clear view of any teammates in danger. A healer's job is not just to heal, this is certain in any game. Healers are very reliable classes, capable of both dps and ccs. Since Mouseover macros pretty much require the healer to have a clear view of the situation, it means they're out of the fight concerned with healing only, thus, utilizing only a portion of their given ability.

 

Your argument AGAINST macro use is that it allows healers to maximize their healing efficiency and avoid damage (that's considered optimal play in a PvP environment), and your other argument is directly contradicting the primary argument of essentially everyone else who opposes macros - that it promotes mouse use.

Edited December 28, 2011 by _compton_

[Battousaien]

so from what i see, some people wanna have an I win button, whille the most people don't wanna have it

 

i admit, there are sometimes moments that i think, that there are some usefull ads or macro's are needed, but just the basic's

but i still like to play the game, instead of seeing numbers and symbols, i like to focus more on mine toon

but for the rest, why you need an I win button, now you need to think what action you gonna do to defend or kill that person, what gear you gonna wear for pvp or pve use youre brain instead, and sort youre I win skills out manually

 

Macros is not an I-WIN button.

If you come across some guy that loads all his abilities into a cast-sequence macro you will 100% always win against him unless you are a below average player. That's true for both PvP and PvE.

The guy with the I-WIN button will always perform worse than the player that judge his CD's and abilities and use them at the best time.

 

English is not my first langue, and I'm not gifted in the art of speach, but I'll try to give you a constructive alternative where I personaly would use macros if they were in the game.

 

Right now you have your entire UI filled with abilities on four different bars. With simple macros I could reduce that to two bars. Making an alt-modifer macro that cast one ability if I press down alt and another ability if I don't have any modifier.

I'm well aware that I simply can bind the ability instead. But as I said, it fills the actionbars and clutter the UI.

 

Another example:

On my Sith Assassin, on the level I am on right now, I have two kind of CC's that break on damage. Whirlwind and Mind Trap. For those of you that don't know, Mind Trap can only be used in Stealth.

If macros were available, I would make a simple macro that combined those two spells and would look something like this:

 

/cast [stealth] Mind Trap; Whirlwind

 

If I'm in Stealth, the macro will try to cast Mind Trap on my target, otherwise it would cast Whirlwind. All this macro does is to save up one actionbar slot and one keybinding. Please tell me how this makes me a worse player and a cheater.

It's not hard at all to bind that extra ability to another keybind. Not at all. But this way is in my opinion so much more convenient.

[Untallow]

Fully support this statement, it's essentially reiterating what many of us have been saying: our interest in the implementation of macros with official support is not self-interest, our interest is in the continued development and improvement of PvP in TOR.

 

Here's the reality Compton.

 

You played the game. You set your keybinds. You discovered that there are MANY skills at your disposal, each vital, and you or your team died, either to player or machine because of your inability to manage them.

 

You then rush to the boards supporting a scenario where this will be less likely for you. If only I could've used 'blah blah blah' in time, I would've won. A macro would've saved me.

 

That's called a skill grade, and for whatever reason, you did not like where you, personally, landed on it.

[NightHawke]

It was correctly pointed out earlier, however that just because the game does not support macros does not mean macros won't be used.

 

USB port hardware/software can have macros programmed in that will surpass anything a game developer could reasonably come up with. The folks that use this stuff really do have an advantage, and I guarantee you they are already using it.

 

Having in-game macro support simply allows the rest of us to compete, as there is simply no way you could detect someone using a macro from an external device, as it doesn't interact at all with the game program.

 

I will admit, I have the Star Wars Razer mouse, and the Stealth Ultimate keyboard from Razer.

 

I choose to not use the macro features that come with it. There just is not a need.

 

Once macros are released by Bioware or 2 million programmable keyboards and mice are given away to TOR players, then maybe I will consider it. Maybe.

[dark_isz]

Apologies if this was already brought up, but if Bioware didn't want macros in SWTOR, why did they put their logo on a macro capable mouse?

 

http://www.razerzone.com/swtor/mouse

 

Reign supreme in the far reaches of the galaxy with the Star Wars: The Old Republic Gaming Mouse by Razer featuring 17 buttons for effortless destruction and more skills at your disposal. The Razer driver software allows easy organization and absolute freedom to remap key binds, character abilities, and macros to all the buttons to keep you on top of your game.

[Yewcantcme]

Your right, and this is argurious <3 where u been?

 

Argurious!!! <3 you man.

 

I quit AOC after all of the F2P patches began destroying things - also the class revamps began dumbing down combat severly so I left.

 

I tried Rift at launch but quit shortly after, believe it or not, I discovered the game supported macros.

 

I've been playing BF3 and SWTOR beta's since. I'm playing on Hedarr Soogn, you should come join us bro.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Yewcantcme