Why Macros belong in TOR.

[Yazule]

at the end of the day, MMORPG's are morea bout build and philosophy than "twitch" play.

 

Twitch play is an FPS thing "skill" by their terms is dexderity, Skill by MMORPG standards is the build that will do the most damage.

 

I am on the fence with macro's, I played "the big mmo" for many years and didnt use macro's for a long time. Eventually i started using them and my dps soared, not because I didnt know what I was doing before but because timed abilities were constantly up if the could be.

 

From my perspective someone that could kick out the dps I kicked out and not use macro's would be more skilled than me. They would be more aware of their timers and use them effectively.

 

Using macro's is not skilless, but it is less skill. I dont care either way, because if they put them in I will use them, but on the other hand I like that as my awareness of my class grows and my experience using the class grows my dps goes up.

 

I lean slightly to the "no macro's" side only because an idiot with no clue can read a message board post and take his bought account to 80% of its potential with a couple of macro's and a 3 button rotation.

 

for the people that know their class that extra 5% meh... whatever... I like getting that extra 5% and knowing it is because of my awareness of both my toon and my surroundings and situation.

[Iamurfriend]

Being able to combine all of your reaction abilities into a macro = bad for the skill element of PVP.

 

I've read parts of this thread and I see a lot people thinking the OP is asking for cast sequence macros or spammable dps macros (These are macros that list your top priority abilities first, followed by lower priority abilites and all you have to do is spam one button and it will use the best available ability). It seems he is mostly asking for the ability to use focus target macros to be able to efficiently use an ability on a character you don't have targeted. The ability to put your focus target into a stun/cc is valuable and takes a large amount of skill to use correctly. I know we all hate wow now, but anyone remember shadow word death macros? Did you think those were "skill-less"? I too would enjoy the ability to have macros that look like the following:

 

/target focus

/cast (ability)

/targetlasttarget

 

A lack of this type of macro is going to mean high end pvp will probably require having targeting macros for enemy players. This could get quite annoying if PvP stays as is and is mostly done in warzones with 8+ people.

 

I'd also like to encourage people to remember that this game is fairly new, and things are going to change considerably over the next few months. Keep an open mind and try to have a good time.

 

-Iamurfriend

[SpainBlaze]

Im an old wow high rated pvp player and i think macros should be implemented, specially for healers (played a warrior back in wow and playing a jedi guardian right now).

 

Healers without the ability to hold a focus target (either an enemy healer/caster, getting ready to cut a spell) or a secondary healing target will lose efficency aganist heavy nukers in most pvp scenarios, therefore will be less or even not used at all.

 

Most people claiming his playing skill to be enough to maintain maximun efficency without the use of macros are either lying or dont know what are they talking about at all since being able to use your character skills with speed is nothingless than an obvius matter. What brings the difference btw high skilled pvp players and low ones its the selfcapacity to being able to react aganist his human opponent with efficency and speed, the creativity to response aganist his current actions constantly. If you meet those facts then you will be able to stomp any player who doesn't, even if he uses macros and you don't. Macros add complexity to the game, and those who doesn`t use them either dont know how to or dont care at all, wich brings them to a lower level talking about pvp skill rate already.

 

What really made me laught aswell, was the argument wich some people is bringing talking about the cast sequence macros wich allow noobs to stomp great pvp players... Cast sequence? No pvp scenario of a minimun level allows a player to stand (or move) spaming 1 key and brings his effectivity to perfection. If you get harmed by such situations then sir, your probably worst player than the one spaming his "i win in 1600 rating arena games" key. You totally dont know what you're talking about, seriusly.

 

Excuse me for my poor english grammar.

Edited January 10, 2012 by SpainBlaze

[Sookster]

Most people claiming his playing skill to be enough to maintain maximun efficency without the use of macros are either lying or dont know what are they talking about at all since being able to use your character skills with speed is nothingless than an obvius matter.

 

So you macroskilled your way up the rank? The complexity between WoW and TOR aren't the same, I had to have every available hotbar open as a Shaman for all the totems, macros was needed. In TOR you only really need 2 full bars for everything accessable, if you need macros to fire off something off those 2 bars, you're lazy. I have stance/speeder on the left bar, consumables/trinklets on the right bar both easily accessable with the mouse.

 

NO to macros, it would make pvp much less fun, especially when ranked pvp matches arrives.

[uppitycracker]

TL;DR - I need a crutch to effectively play this game

[Asnine]

Wouldn't just putting a separate friendly target (so you can have an enemy target and a friendly target at the same time, default being if no friendly target you heal/buff yourself) work just as well as this focus macro?

 

 

 

 

As for the multiple abilites bound the one key....no. No one should be able to get by just by mashing 1 or 2 keys since they have a macro that says "If riposte is usable, then use, otherwise use X ability." But I do understand that this was not what OP was asking for

[Spifnar]

Macros are already here. They're not in the game, obviously, but they are available to people with G15 keyboards or smart enough to look for a free program called Autohotkey (binding several buttons into one which you will mash is the simplest, yet very useful thing it does).

 

AutoHotKey doesn't work in this game, nor has any other macro program that I've been able to find (I spent hours trying to setup crafting macros). Yes, you can make AutoHotKey change program focus to SWTOR, at which point all keybord and mouse inputs from AHK stop working. Ditto for my (old) Nostromo

 

Part of it is DirectInput screws with most macro programs (AHK has workarounds that don't work), but I think the devs are *actively* blocking outside key/mouse inputs.

 

This is a GOOD THING. It makes for a more level playing field.

 

Now, on to in-game macros. I don't want them. Especially for targetting hijinx. IMO giving the user target-of-target lowers skill. Yes, WoW had all of this in spades, but that doesn't mean I enjoyed having to macro a ton of abilities just to keep up. Same for /castrandom and /castsequence, especially in a cooldown heavy abilityset that SWTOR has.

 

What I'd like is a stealth bar (like the cover bar), and the ability to dual-target: 1 friendly and 1 enemy. Like WAR. That's it

[OldManRelic]

macros made PvP a joke in Rift (for some classes, anyhow). They'll do the same for SWTOR. There's no need for them. Want to craft? Click the buttons.

 

Now, I fully support fixing the bugs that exist in the current system, but that's a different topic altogether.

[Gorto]

I don't know I kinda like having to dedicate quick bar and 6 key binds to my buffs. NOT

[JustinxDuff]

macros made PvP a joke in Rift (for some classes, anyhow). They'll do the same for SWTOR. There's no need for them. Want to craft? Click the buttons.

 

Now, I fully support fixing the bugs that exist in the current system, but that's a different topic altogether.

 

I agree Rift macros were horrible. Warriors could put all their abilities on 2 macros.

[Astricky]

Focus/mouseover macros need to happen--especially focus macros. Separates the bads from people who can coordinate more than one thing at a time.

 

Also, simple things like combining similar abilities into one press. Example: using a relic, an adrenal, and an ability that increases my crit chance all in one press. As it is right now I had to bind these to F1-F3 and just spam the top corner of my keyboard to achieve this. It's clunky and stupid. Plus, there aren't enough hotbars for the number of abilities in this game, and being able to do simple spell combines would help to alleviate that slightly.

 

I can't help but think anyone arguing against macros just aren't high-level players but are "average" at best, because the top end players know the importance of even simple things like focus macros.

[Rethical]

While i believe there is a valid argument for the implementation of macros and focus frames into swtor, I don't think that either are necessary at all.

 

To make a rather sweeping generalisation, most people who are familiar with the terms macros and focus frame, will have come from other MMO's (most predominantly World of Warcraft and Rift). And in fairness... these games have cultivated a thriving system for PVP.

 

It also appears that the people who are asking for macros and focus in SWTOR are coming from a practised PVP background in these games... so of course they are used to seeing a focus frame and an action bar full of macros.

 

My question is:

 

Why can't we have a different PVP environment in SWTOR?

 

I would urge people who are coming to SWTOR from other MMO's to leave the past behind, and treat this game with a whole new mindset.

 

At first it may not seem as though as much skill is required to play without macros and focus frames... but hey... isn't this putting everyone on a level playing field?

 

Good PVP'ers will always be good PVP'ers and noobs will always be noobs regardless of the way each player uses the interface they have at their disposal. Learn to play the game with the tools at hand, and forget what older MMO's have taught you.

 

Strive for the best with what you have been given and you will be a man my son!

[ManCalledNova]

/target focus

/cast (ability)

/targetlasttarget

 

A lack of this type of macro is going to mean high end pvp will probably require having targeting macros for enemy players. This could get quite annoying if PvP stays as is and is mostly done in warzones with 8+ people.

 

-Iamurfriend

 

This functionality already exists....look in keybindings.

 

All you need to do is set a focus target (alt+f) and hold END while you use your ability.

 

You can also do target of target and many other wonderful things using targeting keybindings.

[SpainBlaze]

So you macroskilled your way up the rank? The complexity between WoW and TOR aren't the same, I had to have every available hotbar open as a Shaman for all the totems, macros was needed. In TOR you only really need 2 full bars for everything accessable, if you need macros to fire off something off those 2 bars, you're lazy. I have stance/speeder on the left bar, consumables/trinklets on the right bar both easily accessable with the mouse.

 

NO to macros, it would make pvp much less fun, especially when ranked pvp matches arrives.

 

Read my post, i only argued about healers, never said i would need something like Force Leap + Opportune Strike macro, for example, that would be simply self commodity, nothing i can't acomplish already pushing two keys.

 

Im just arround level 40 and been able to take down level 50 healers easily with correct sequence of spell interrupt skills, already find themselves useless in pvp game, won't consider this a fact yet though, since im just started playing, much more to investigate and test yet, but i do have the feeling that they aren't as effective as damage dealers.

 

You just said you click trinkets, consumables... Already failed in my eyes. Also have mount bind myself, key in many Wow pvp escenarios (bgs and arenas). Jedi knight stances aren't key skill from my current point of view, yet i also have them bind to get used on them already.

 

You may think all those aren't neccessary, most people do. Others, like me, know that every bit makes a huge difference.

 

And yeah, i macroskilled my way up the rank, like you said. Got almost every skill on a /startattack /cast "randomwarriorskill". You may dont get the irony here though...

 

Excuse me again for my poor grammar.

[Vegathegreat]

Play the game as is people, stop asking for macros and stuff to help you not suck. GOOOD players adapt, bad players cry.

[Macfergusson]

Play the game as is people, stop asking for macros and stuff to help you not suck. GOOOD players adapt, bad players cry.

 

Intelligent players adapt to bad situations, but present solutions to improve the future.

[Suuke]

No macros - end of story.

[FunkyNassau]

People wouldnt want macros if the combat abilities didn't overlap so much (I.e. sunder strike and slash). If someone doesn't like macros in their game then don't create a system that asks for it. You know what, some people prefer to watch the action and not ability bars.

 

Razer (perhaps others) already has plenty of products to macro with. So you might as well put you customers with less disposable income on the same level.

 

Macro'ing is great for roleplayers so they can string together some fun chat stuff.

 

 

 

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Dear bioware, if you are going to implement macros then for all that's holy please be sure to disable ability failure messages. You know what just steal RIFTs ui system. Its pretty damn slick

[Porpsi]

just another thing to add to the ever growing list of "fairly standard UI functions which you've come to expect in any modern day mmo but for some strange reason arent in the old republic"... stick this one on the list, just below target of target portraits.

[aleiro]

What's easier growing a 3rd arm or implementing macros?

 

so just implement macros...

 

EDIT or you could also get rid of some abilities and then we don't need macros

Edited January 11, 2012 by aleiro

[Claam]

Play the game as is people, stop asking for macros and stuff to help you not suck. GOOOD players adapt, bad players cry.

 

And douches like you keep trolling.

 

Dont use them then.

[Fknsteve]

My Sith Warrior craves a:

/cast Force Scream;/y FUS RO DAH;

macro!!!!

 

(Also macro's are more like scopes for weapons...sure you can hit the target without them just fine but having a scope helps...You still need to be able to shoot the weapon to use it though.)

[Viscerus]

totally correct OP.

 

/bump this thread.

 

put in freaking macros.

[Vordy]

This type of trolling, non-constructive response hardly deserves a reply, but..

 

It's clear you read absolutely nothing of what I posted, I devoted a paragraph to that particular myth, and why it's so blatantly wrong.

 

Not every macro is a "cast-sequence" which is not what I'm in support of, and not what this thread is about.

 

So hes telling the truth and then you considering him a troll? Ye good job.... He is correct though.

[Scotland]

only bads need macros