I'm going to whine a little..

[Bobs_YourUncle]

I started playing a week before SoR launched. I'm a story RPG player. This was my first mmo actually, and while I dabbled in group stuff, and ended up loving pvp, I'm primarily a solo player. I have leveled each class multiple times, some as many as 5-7. I love the vanilla stories. I also enjoyed the expansions, even the little ones like illum and oricon. Well, the pirate rishi theme kind of threw me off, but that's fine. The expansions got old fast though; just not near the depth and variation of vanilla, which is to be expected.

 

That being said, I had high hopes for kotfe. I was that guy arguing with the pessimists about just how awesome kotfe was going to be. Choices were going to matter, we could kill companions we didn't like, they are going to focus on story this expansion, and the trailers really indicated this was going to be awesome. I almost cried when arcann killed his brother. In the end, my conclusion is that they told a far better story in the trailers than in all of kotfe. I wanted to like it, but I just couldn't. I feel like they could have done so much better with most of their resources going to story.

 

I hope kotet is better. I'll play it too, but for now I'm at a point where I have exhausted all the content that I'm interested in, so it's so long for now... Or will be once I slog through the last few fps and the ec for dvl event. Pretty sure I can I the two weeks I have left.

 

Also, don't kid yourselves. I know you care about my opinion.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Actually I remember quite well your going on and on about how great KoTFE was going to be. And as I said back then, and it will continue into the next round in KoTeT, is that decisions wont matter in the least.

 

There may be one or two instances where a scripted event will happen, that can result in a companion death, or leaving (IE: Koth), but there is just two many variables, too many decisions through this game, and the class stories for them to tie anything more then maybe a sentence of reference to your class.

 

The thing is, I think BW Austin, has become lazy. They know they got a bunch of "story" people that kinda of foam at the mouth over these monthly webisodes, and will continue to lap it up. They know they have whales on the CM that will spend thousands a month on the CM, because hell, they can. They know that there are idiots like myself that will maintain our subs in the hope of some kind of group content, as long as they dont say anything about it one way or the other.

 

It is what it is, I mean I hope it is at least interesting, I REALLY hope they suprise us with at least a decent, small but fun OP, a couple of FP's etc, but I doubt it.

 

I have always been a 6 month at a time sub, but my sub expires in October, so until then I will play, then move on if nothing else gains my interest in this game.

[JattaGin]

Also, don't kid yourselves. I know you care about my opinion.

 

Indeed.

 

However, your OP lacked a little bit of whining imo.

 

I agree that compared to what could have been, KotFE was a bit underwhelming. I will still stay though. I have no time to get into another game, so it will be Swtor until the bitter end. And yes, as a sub. Whatever, at this point.

[TUXs]

Would you like some cheese with ur......oh, never mind

 

I'm hopeful with KOTET as well. I feel like KOTFE ended on a great chapter with some very unique missions we ran that took time and didn't involve billions of Skytroopers falling from the sky, but then again, it's Bioware...they have no problem changing focus and moving on to something else at a moments notice...so...yeah...

[ikinai]

Would you like some cheese with ur......oh, never mind

 

I'm hopeful with KOTET as well. I feel like KOTFE ended on a great chapter with some very unique missions we ran that took time and didn't involve billions of Skytroopers falling from the sky, but then again, it's Bioware...they have no problem changing focus and moving on to something else at a moments notice...so...yeah...

 

Sweet dreams are made of cheese, who am I to dis a brie?

[TUXs]

Sweet dreams are made of cheese, who am I to dis a brie?

O M G! I let out a very audible LOL when I got to "cheese", but the "dis a brie" took it to another level...

[Lunafox]

Sweet dreams are made of cheese, who am I to dis a brie?

 

You're awesome. I just thought you should know that.

 

And now that I've fangirled, back to the original topic!

 

I have high hopes for KoTET...I hope it will be better than KotFE. While I liked many aspects about KotFE, there was a lot lacking too. Like romance! So, I'm hoping with the feedback we've been giving across the forums that they'll give us more of what we want. I suspect too, that they're playing a 'long game' and that it would be like a book series, where a truly major resolution wouldn't be coming for a long time...and then they'd start the next phase/series.

[Transcendent]

I was that guy arguing with the pessimists about just how awesome kotfe was going to be.

 

So, welcome to the club of being pessimistic. You know the dark side has more cookies right? You just have to shed that last vestage of optimism you're carrying around...... did I mention the cookies?

 

In all seriousness, the threads pre 4.0 were pretty negative (sounds familiar to now....), we were all wrong and right both at the same time. Some of the changes were okay, while others abysmal (I still hate Level Sync as it is now). On the aspect of story though, surely you have some moderation?

 

The things I like about KotFE? Chapter introductions with a nice cinematic, music, new locations being added to the game.

The things I dislike about KotFE? Lack of class naratives, linear gameplay, replayability, the list goes on...

The thing I hate most about KotFE? Kotor style Alliance recruitment conversations. Loathe it, like seriously absolutely can not stand it, it's horrendous.

 

I'm fairly certain most of us have something we do like about KotFE, as well as dislikes. It can't all be negative. Surely?

[Andryah]

I have high hopes for KoTET...I hope it will be better than KotFE. While I liked many aspects about KotFE, there was a lot lacking too. Like romance! So, I'm hoping with the feedback we've been giving across the forums that they'll give us more of what we want. I suspect too, that they're playing a 'long game' and that it would be like a book series, where a truly major resolution wouldn't be coming for a long time...and then they'd start the next phase/series.

 

Personally, I try not to get hopeful around MMO expacs. Nothing good can come from it, but plenty of disappointment certainly can.

 

I know romance features are important to you. I just don't think they will ever put more depth and energy into them though... based just on past history since 2012. They could surprise us of course... and better to be surprised than to be disappointed because I thought one thing and they did something else.

 

As far as seeing actual closure and resolution in the chapter format, I'm not so sure they will go that route. They very much appear to be following classic multi-part screenplay format and style, complete with cliff hangers. They even follow the classic protagonist/antagonist themes, style and crisis-2-climax format of screen plays, which in turn are modeled after story telling and mythology of old ( http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/vogler.jpg ). Time will tell though.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Andryah

[PlasmaJohn]

While I liked many aspects about KotFE, there was a lot lacking too. Like romance! So, I'm hoping with the feedback we've been giving across the forums that they'll give us more of what we want.

I'd be shocked to see any fundamental changes. Changing mob density is one thing but the VO work has been done long before Chapter 16 was released. The story and any romance scenes (if any) are pretty much locked in.

 

Now the "choices matter" complaint was aired early enough that they'll likely make "consequences" more timely. I have little faith they'll make it less linear.

[Thoronmir]

I'm fairly certain most of us have something we do like about KotFE, as well as dislikes. It can't all be negative. Surely?

No, it's not all negative. I enjoyed KOTFE. I didn't even mind the torrent of pebble-fodder my Sage had to mow through every other step. I appreciated the new characters, even if, personally, I did not like them (I had an instant dislike for Koth ... as a person ... from the start). So, no. It's not all negative.

 

And don't call me Shirley.

[Lunafox]

Personally, I try not to get hopeful around MMO expacs. Nothing good can come from it, but plenty of disappointment certainly can.

 

I know romance features are important to you. I just don't think they will ever put more depth and energy into them though... based just on past history since 2012. They could surprise us of course... and better to be surprised than to be disappointed because I thought one thing and they did something else.

 

As far as seeing actual closure and resolution in the chapter format, I'm not so sure they will go that route. They very much appear to be following classic multi-part screenplay format and style, complete with cliff hangers. They even follow the classic protagonist/antagonist themes, style and crisis-2-climax format of screen plays, which in turn are modeled after story telling and mythology of old ( http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/vogler.jpg ). Time will tell though.

 

Andryah is wise. You're right, but it's a thing with me, has been my whole life...I get my hopes up, I get excited, I get disappointed. I suppose I'm like Linus waiting for The Great Pumpkin to arrive and I don't want to give up, because the moment I do, bam, the pumpkin arrives! It's a character flaw...can't shake it. :/ It would be nice if they included more romance, it is very important to me, and it makes sense to the story too, that if you have a loved one in it, that you'd touch base with them more often...even discuss things that happened.

 

I appreciate the links, I'm going to check them out. It sounds almost like they're going the way I am with my fanfics lol. I guess, all we can do is keep our fingers crossed!

 

 

I'd be shocked to see any fundamental changes. Changing mob density is one thing but the VO work has been done long before Chapter 16 was released. The story and any romance scenes (if any) are pretty much locked in.

 

Now the "choices matter" complaint was aired early enough that they'll likely make "consequences" more timely. I have little faith they'll make it less linear.

 

You're probably right, especially about the voice work. They may not be able to manage it for the next series, but if there is another to come, maybe then. Just can't give up on asking for we want to see happen. They might hear us?

Musco...if you're reading...hear me...I'd like more romance in the story....tell the devs...Eric Musco...you're my only hope.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Lunafox

[Jamtas]

But here is where choices matter has to show itself.

 

 

So the big choice matters that has been shown is Koth leaving - then returning in ch 16 blocking scorpio and taking the gravestone. So let's analyze whether or not this really mattered.

 

1a) Keep Koth happy, he sticks around & he hits the button and stops Scorpio

1b) Make Koth mad, he leaves and returns to hit the button and stop Scorpio

 

I don't call that a difference. Same outcome and no additional work on character's part needed.

 

Now, to be seen:

2a) Keep Koth Happy, you still have gravestone

2b) Make him mad, he runs off in it

 

Now the gravestone thus far is just a story prop. We don't get to hang out and use it so it being there or gone in story makes little difference. Now if KOTET comes and not having the ship requires you to do a mission to get it back, or have to do the same task only have to take longer to do it then there was some consequence. But if it comes down to when gravestone is needed and Koth jsut shows up with it and we go on just like we would if we had it still - or - no real use of gravestone happens again, then that choice will not have mattered either.

 

 

[TUXs]

But here is where choices matter has to show itself.

 

 

So the big choice matters that has been shown is Koth leaving - then returning in ch 16 blocking scorpio and taking the gravestone. So let's analyze whether or not this really mattered.

 

1a) Keep Koth happy, he sticks around & he hits the button and stops Scorpio

1b) Make Koth mad, he leaves and returns to hit the button and stop Scorpio

 

I don't call that a difference. Same outcome and no additional work on character's part needed.

 

Now, to be seen:

2a) Keep Koth Happy, you still have gravestone

2b) Make him mad, he runs off in it

 

Now the gravestone thus far is just a story prop. We don't get to hang out and use it so it being there or gone in story makes little difference. Now if KOTET comes and not having the ship requires you to do a mission to get it back, or have to do the same task only have to take longer to do it then there was some consequence. But if it comes down to when gravestone is needed and Koth jsut shows up with it and we go on just like we would if we had it still - or - no real use of gravestone happens again, then that choice will not have mattered either.

 

EXACTLY Jamtas. No matter what we did, we're in exactly the same place as everyone else at the end of Chap 16.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I never actually found the class stories so much great ... And I'm a story player as well. I mean, reeally serious Adventures ...

 

So far the best - yet saddest, but almost emotionally most intense - moment was the end of the second consular class mission on Belsavis ... When the assistant, Komi, finds out that ...

 

Bioware could have created so much more emotionally intense moments. The far best story I have yet seen is that on the Theoretica ... Award for the greatest immersion !

 

Well, and there are those unexpected things. Like Gus Tuno, for example ... I still love him. And of course Kai Zykken.

 

Well, perhaps Biooware did so much bettewr stories for the Empire side - which I don't play - but that wouldn't surprise me. At least for the Republic ... Oh, yeah. A smuggler who never actually smuggles things ? A trooper who never comes in contact with the Republic ( ? ) Talz troops on Hoth ?

 

So much wasted potential ...

[Jamtas]

I never actually found the class stories so much great ... And I'm a story player as well. I mean, reeally serious Adventures ...

 

So far the best - yet saddest, but almost emotionally most intense - moment was the end of the second consular class mission on Belsavis ... When the assistant, Komi, finds out that ...

 

Bioware could have created so much more emotionally intense moments. The far best story I have yet seen is that on the Theoretica ... Award for the greatest immersion !

 

Well, and there are those unexpected things. Like Gus Tuno, for example ... I still love him. And of course Kai Zykken.

 

Well, perhaps Biooware did so much bettewr stories for the Empire side - which I don't play - but that wouldn't surprise me. At least for the Republic ... Oh, yeah. A smuggler who never actually smuggles things ? A trooper who never comes in contact with the Republic ( ? ) Talz troops on Hoth ?

 

So much wasted potential ...

 

Then there is just the inexcusable silence from Lord Scourge the entire time on Ziost

[PlasmaJohn]

You're probably right, especially about the voice work. They may not be able to manage it for the next series, but if there is another to come, maybe then. Just can't give up on asking for we want to see happen. They might hear us?

Musco...if you're reading...hear me...I'd like more romance in the story....tell the devs...Eric Musco...you're my only hope.

fight the good fight!

 

Not to offer any false hope but romance scenes should be fairly easy to add. Heck they barely depended on the class stories. For the most part it was did you get past a certain story checkpoint and accumulate enough influence. The scenes themselves were either in a cantina or your ship.

 

Now should be a good time to agitate for changes to KotTS (Third Season) so that the next time they get the voice actors back to the recording studio they can work on these scenes too

[Rolodome]

If they take enough time with it, I think it'll turn out good. As I've stated before, I'm of the opinion that pushing out a chapter a month was just more of a storytelling challenge than they could handle. They proved they can churn out monthly story content, but making it part of a cohesive, memorable narrative while doing so is incredibly difficult.

 

Which is why I enjoy 1-9 so much more than I do the latter half. I could nitpick at 1-9 and say it isn't as re-playable as, say, classic KOTOR, but I can't deny that the first playthrough was super fun. Personally, I'm not expecting or asking for "the best." I'm just wanting something that will at least wow me on the first playthrough. Going above and beyond, and making something that can be played a bajillion times and not grow stale would be cool, but creating a story like that is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle and I tend to think that the only reason the class stories feel more re-playable is because the pacing lets you take your time, so you're less likely to get burned out.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Rolodome

[PlasmaJohn]

If they take enough time with it, I think it'll turn out good. As I've stated before, I'm of the opinion that pushing out a chapter a month was just more of a storytelling challenge than they could handle. They proved they can churn out monthly story content, but making it part of a cohesive, memorable narrative while doing so is incredibly difficult.

I don't believe for a second that they were still writing the KotFE chapters after it launched. In fact wasn't the VO work wrapped up? Maybe they had some post production stuff to deal with (area design, models, textures) but the fundamental story was finished before Oct. 2015. The release schedule was intentionally drawn out to artificially inflate subscriber numbers.

 

I had the benefit of playing the story from 1-16 without the month long pauses between the last seven chapters. The pacing of 10-16 didn't seem to be any better or worse than 1-9.

 

Going above and beyond, and making something that can be played a bajillion times and not grow stale would be cool, but creating a story like that is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle and I tend to think that the only reason the class stories feel more re-playable is because the pacing lets you take your time, so you're less likely to get burned out.

The class stories don't get old for several reasons. First of all there are eight to rotate through. Tired of Trooper? Play Inquisitor. They all had some fairly intricate companion missions and often multiple romances. Finally, and I think this is where KotFE fell down hard: Different moral choices were different paths to success. In KotFE if you're not Light V, everything's sunshine and roses and Koth's best bud, you're very severely punished.

[Sendisa]

Sweet dreams are made of cheese, who am I to dis a brie?

 

I cheddar the world and a Feta cheese

Everybody's looking for Stilton

 

Sorry not sorry, couldn't help myself... Back to the topic.

 

As someone who also mainly plays for the story, I enjoyed probably the first 8 chapters. But as they dragged on it started to feel like a chore at certain points, a good chunk of it being straight out filler, to the point where the only characters I can stomach to take through the same chapters is down to about two before a sense of tedium sets in.

 

I think a part of it might lie in the number of LI companions they have to bring back so everyone can get their little reunion scene, so it kind of gets in the way of the main story. Maybe a good way around that would be to bring in more than one companion per month, like they did with Vette and Gault. Say have Quinn and Elara find themselves in a situation where they have to work together when the Alliance finds them (the fact that Elara is a defector could make for some potentially interesting dialogue between the two). Nadia and Kira could be doing covert jedi things, but are dissatisfied with how things are going and are looking for a better way to liberate the Republic. Risha became queen, but she and Corso could be up to subtle shenanigans of some description. With the amount left to bring back there's quite a few combinations they could go with, and everyone finally gets to be happy just that little bit quicker, then have BW go back to ignoring the fact your character is in a relationship entirely and all will be right in the galaxy.

[Andryah]

I appreciate the links, I'm going to check them out. It sounds almost like they're going the way I am with my fanfics lol.

 

The chart I linked is from the book The Writers Journey. https://www.amazon.com/Writers-Journey-Mythic-Structure-3rd/dp/193290736X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474060982&sr=8-1&keywords=the+writers+journey For any aspiring writer, I highly recommend it.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Andryah

[mike_carton]

Sweet dreams are made of cheese, who am I to dis a brie?

 

 

Best pun I've heard in a long time. Genius.

 

I'm stealing it; don't know if I'll ever get to use it, but I'm stealing it.

[LyraineAlei]

I cheddar the world and a Feta cheese

Everybody's looking for Stilton

 

Sorry not sorry, couldn't help myself... Back to the topic.

 

As someone who also mainly plays for the story, I enjoyed probably the first 8 chapters. But as they dragged on it started to feel like a chore at certain points, a good chunk of it being straight out filler, to the point where the only characters I can stomach to take through the same chapters is down to about two before a sense of tedium sets in.

 

I think a part of it might lie in the number of LI companions they have to bring back so everyone can get their little reunion scene, so it kind of gets in the way of the main story. Maybe a good way around that would be to bring in more than one companion per month, like they did with Vette and Gault. Say have Quinn and Elara find themselves in a situation where they have to work together when the Alliance finds them (the fact that Elara is a defector could make for some potentially interesting dialogue between the two). Nadia and Kira could be doing covert jedi things, but are dissatisfied with how things are going and are looking for a better way to liberate the Republic. Risha became queen, but she and Corso could be up to subtle shenanigans of some description. With the amount left to bring back there's quite a few combinations they could go with, and everyone finally gets to be happy just that little bit quicker, then have BW go back to ignoring the fact your character is in a relationship entirely and all will be right in the galaxy.

 

Some of them want to use you.

Some of them to get Vieux-Boulogne.

 

I don't have much in the way of knowing cheese names and puns.

 

I had originally thought the way we'd be getting comps back would be through chapters and then we'd have daily zones to run a weekly or grind a reputation for to get the companion.

 

Ex. To go Akaavi and Torian, you had to help the Mandalorians in a daily zone (I was thinking pre-KotFE release that it would be Dxun) like in KotOR II when Exile was doing things to convince Mandalore to join her/him (I know Obsidian is not BioWare, but it was the general idea) for a while with a reputation that would be legacy wide. (Bounty Hunters would recruit Torian first, Smugglers would recruit Akaavi first, and then work to recruit the other, while the rest of the classes would have to work the full worth to recruit both)

 

So first character through would grin the weekly for two weeks' worth + 14 sets of the dailies, the next one would grind the weekly for one week + 7 sets of the dailies, the subsequent ones would require only running one set of dailies and the weekly (which would be the full single day's worth of dailies like in other rep zones).

 

I could easily see Risha, Corso, and Mako doing stuff together (Mako hired on since she's a genius slicer and stuff) and then running around Dubrillion to get them and stuff as well.

 

Didn't turn out like I thought it would be, and I'm kind of disappointed.

[Lunafox]

Then there is just the inexcusable silence from Lord Scourge the entire time on Ziost

 

Yes exactly! And before that during the Revan stuff. I love Scourge and he really needs to have something spectacular and wonderful storywise to make up for their neglect of him in the past. Not to mention Joe Gatt...my gods, what a voice. And what a guy, and all around wonderful person! <3

 

 

 

fight the good fight!

 

Not to offer any false hope but romance scenes should be fairly easy to add. Heck they barely depended on the class stories. For the most part it was did you get past a certain story checkpoint and accumulate enough influence. The scenes themselves were either in a cantina or your ship.

 

Now should be a good time to agitate for changes to KotTS (Third Season) so that the next time they get the voice actors back to the recording studio they can work on these scenes too

 

 

I will do my best! But the war for content that makes us happy can't be fought alone. Onwards!

 

I do like the way you think, and I hope you're right, that it isn't such a huge undertaking or expense that they'll see fit to do it. I think realistically, it's probably too late for the stuff coming up, but yeah, definitely we should be able to campaign for the 3rd season

 

 

The chart I linked is from the book The Writers Journey. https://www.amazon.com/Writers-Journey-Mythic-Structure-3rd/dp/193290736X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474060982&sr=8-1&keywords=the+writers+journey For any aspiring writer, I highly recommend it.

 

Thank you for the recommendation It looks like a wonderful book and will see about getting a copy. I read just about anything and everything I can get my hands on to find ways to polish my craft. A writer never stops learning.

[Sendisa]

Some of them want to use you.

Some of them to get Vieux-Boulogne.

 

I don't have much in the way of knowing cheese names and puns.

 

I had originally thought the way we'd be getting comps back would be through chapters and then we'd have daily zones to run a weekly or grind a reputation for to get the companion.

 

Ex. To go Akaavi and Torian, you had to help the Mandalorians in a daily zone (I was thinking pre-KotFE release that it would be Dxun) like in KotOR II when Exile was doing things to convince Mandalore to join her/him (I know Obsidian is not BioWare, but it was the general idea) for a while with a reputation that would be legacy wide. (Bounty Hunters would recruit Torian first, Smugglers would recruit Akaavi first, and then work to recruit the other, while the rest of the classes would have to work the full worth to recruit both)

 

So first character through would grin the weekly for two weeks' worth + 14 sets of the dailies, the next one would grind the weekly for one week + 7 sets of the dailies, the subsequent ones would require only running one set of dailies and the weekly (which would be the full single day's worth of dailies like in other rep zones).

 

I could easily see Risha, Corso, and Mako doing stuff together (Mako hired on since she's a genius slicer and stuff) and then running around Dubrillion to get them and stuff as well.

 

Didn't turn out like I thought it would be, and I'm kind of disappointed.

 

They're not so much puns but part of a parody of a Eurythmics song. If you feel so inclined, google 'Sweet Dreams Are Made Of Cheese'.

 

I was a little surprised and disappointed that Akaavi wasn't part of the Mandalorian chapter. While the rest of her clan my have been wiped out, that doesn't mean she automatically stops being a mando herself, or at least that was always my interpretation of it. They could have done something a little different with it, like making you choose which companion goes to Odessen with you, and the other would then stay behind with Mandalore. But then I suspect that if they did go that route a certain group of the player base would complain that they want both and it's not fair to have an either/or choice.

 

While I'm not a big fan of rep grinds myself, it would have been nice to have a bit more content outside of the story than what we ended up with. Anything would be better than rehashing 5 year old heroics that don't even make any sense doing them any more since the player character is the leader of a cross faction group. I can't see anyone following someone who goes on this spiel about putting differences aside and working together to defeat a larger threat, only to turn around and attack your part of the faction in different locales. It just felt incredibly lazy to me. I want to be out there sticking it to Arcann and company, not wasting my time trudging out to Hoth and dicking over the Republic who's been doing the same thing for five years.