How many are looking forward to KOTET?

[rantboi]

So devs, what if I hated KOTFE? >_>

 

You don't exist. because everyone loved kotfe.

[Tsillah]

They've not released the details yet so hold off on the debbie downer.

 

On the other hand a person could argue that he speaks from experience with BW Austin.

[Chiltonium]

You don't exist. because everyone loved kotfe.

 

I thought it was meh, and didnt make sense on my Agent.

[SFDebris]

Step 1: Create a farewell thread, like "I quit because" or "Bye bye forever SWTOR" post, where you state to give away all your credits and that you will be deleting your characters.

 

Step 2: Once you have reached the limit where SWTOR is not more fun for you, you'll quit BUT in reality haven't delete any characters.

 

Step 3: Should eventually be any semblance of interest return, you can play again and chuckle at the people who believed you (or went to your farewell thread to troll).

 

I suspect far more will do what I'm planning (barring BW revealing anything over the next seven weeks to convince me KOTET has learned from KOTFE's screw ups). which is to just cancel and then resub to get the chapters once it's finished in the hopes that either it's not more of the same disappointment, or to at least get up to speed for whatever comes after (assuming something does). Those of us who do will miss out on the KOTET equivalent of a droid facemask, but I think we'll be able to live with that burden.

[Aowin]

...

 

I'm not defending the Doctors, I'm not praising them, and I don't believe they necessarily had realistic expectations for SWTOR. They both left the industry in 2013 largely because of the controversy with ME3 and the flop that SWTOR was after launch. I'm just giving a rundown of what their vision for post-release content was. They weren't interested in doing WoW-type expansions and they made that clear before SWTOR even launched. Obviously, things didn't go according to plan and SWTOR wasn't able to sustain two million subscribers beyond the first three months.

 

Whatever intentions BioWare may have now, KOTFE is far more closer to what BioWare originally intended for frequent content updates. We get new story content once a month (as well as some group content mixed in). Everything we get is free to subscribers (which was the original intention). That's not to say KOTFE was perfect and I agree the chapters, themselves, were too short to have to wait another four weeks. It's a work in process and I hope that BioWare continues to improve the model and eventually everybody gets something that they want.

 

I would just caution so many folks saying "ROTHC was flawless" and "SOR was amazing" because they are more like "traditional expansions." That was never the original intention for SWTOR and those only happened because the game was forced to go F2P. Thus, everything at that time had to be monetized.

 

KOTFE isn't perfect, but I think with some adjustments it could be far better than any "expansion" BioWare has released for this game since launch.

[annabethchase]

I am massively disappointed that season 1 did not wrap up any story arcs. It appears that most of the fanbase is similarly disappointed. So hopefully that means Bioware will pack season 2 much more tightly and actually move the story to a conclusion worthy of a year's wait. So I suppose yes, i'm looking forward to season 2, despite thinking much of it should have been addressed in season 1.

[annabethchase]

I would just caution so many folks saying "ROTHC was flawless" and "SOR was amazing" because they are more like "traditional expansions." That was never the original intention for SWTOR and those only happened because the game was forced to go F2P. Thus, everything at that time had to be monetized.

 

KOTFE isn't perfect, but I think with some adjustments it could be far better than any "expansion" BioWare has released for this game since launch.

 

I think you're putting words in people's mouths. ROTHC and SOR are often compared to in terms of content because they are the only other 2 expansions we've had to compare with. Most people like that they had a balance of many types of content and at least some replayability to the story. However, remember we are dealing with a tiny fraction of the original fanbase for this game. Most of that fanbase expected this game to be able to put out WoW size expansions since SWTOR was the best funded game of all time. So the people saying they like ROTHC more than KOTFE still don't mean they think it was some great expansion. They simply think it's better than KOTFE.

 

I'm a bit of a fence straddle on this myself. Like the KOTFE story focus, but don't like the execution. Have hopes that KOTET will correct the pacing issues and the lack of multiplayer. We shall see.

[Alanbra]

So devs, what if I hated KOTFE? >_>

 

You will be exiled to the spoiler section of the Story and Lore forum to where the negative threads were moved.

[Ralei]

I

Like the KOTFE story focus, but don't like the execution. .

 

I think that sums up Kotfe for me as well. Hopefully, this was the practice before Kotet.

[Aowin]

...

 

I haven't put words in anyone's mouth. People have made their opinions rather clear: they want "traditional MMO expansions" and not what BioWare is doing now. As far as the stories in RotHC and SoR being replayable, I disagree with this point entirely. RotHC was so terrible story-wise I could never bring myself to complete it more than the first time. I hate Makeb with a fiery passion.

 

SoR isn't much better as I'm forced to do boring flashpoints and then I'm forced to do boring fetch quests and dailies on Rishi and Yavin 4. There is very little "fun" about these expansions in terms of their story. At least KOTFE tried to rectify that and make a story worth playing through. Is it as replayable as it should be? Maybe not. It's certainly better than RotHC and SoR.

 

"Most of that fanbase expected this game to be able to put out WoW size expansions since SWTOR was the best funded game of all time."

 

Whoever had those expectations clearly did not follow SWTOR very closely pre-launch. It was never going to have WoW size expansions and BioWare never suggested that it would. Feel free to read my previous post about what Dr. Ray Muzyka's plans were for SWTOR expansions. It was never going to be anything like WoW and that was intentional because BioWare did not want SWTOR to be WoW.

 

I think part of the frustration for some is their own preconceived notions of what an "MMO" is. For many, they think only WoW is an MMO and every other MMO must follow it. Sorry to say, but there were MMOs long before WoW (and much better I might add). SWTOR was never trying to be WoW. It was trying to be a BioWare RPG with MMO activities on top of it. For a variety of reasons (a long list I won't get into) SWTOR did not turn out as planned and priorities changed. KOTFE was BioWare's goal of trying to get back to the roots of what made SWTOR different from every other MMO: Story.

 

We can argue whether that's a good idea or not, but that's the direction SWTOR has taken. KOTET is going to continue the story and likely in identical fashion to KOTFE. I don't believe there is anything wrong with this expansion format approach. BioWare just needs better execution and it needs to try and appeal to a broader audience.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Aowin

[AllisonLightning]

...

 

Yes, well as far as what people wanted- there were a few people in Bioware who decided for the vision they were all responsible for, in it's state. You're still blaming the fact they were forced rather than EA saved the game so that people could start and continue playing it years later. That people actually look at the story and content in the expansions on its own merit rather than simply fall all over uni-fit Outlander chapters. I play RPGs, I've played Mass Effect and other games so many times for such little change and right up until SOR is all that material...so what there's side stuff you need to do? I'd rather do dailies than skytrooper passages.'

 

There's a quasi okay story, that needs more choice pathways underneath the dreck but if they're going to cut down on that group content, there's no excuse not to have a plethora of choice in these chapters and more individual recognition.

 

My problem is you keep describing the doctors and Bioware decision makers back then as almost starry eyed idealists whose vision wasn't appreciated- that it's merely because people wanted the wrong things. They couldn't cash the cheques they wrote in terms of content and their eventual vision wasn't going to either. I came into this from zero MMOs, I have no preconceived ideas or plans to touch any others.

 

What do people honestly think a monthly fee and a content carrot is? It's monetization of a game to get a constant income and profit from it- sub only games aren't bastions of the developers caring and being able to cater for the subs. SWTOR was no different and you say anything to make that carrot look good. The game is a monetization carrot, sub only, subs and F2P, preferred and or a cash shop. The doctors were very good at excusing themselves from answering the promises they made and have never taken responsibility for their mistakes so much so were they still in Bioware, I wouldn't have picked this up and I'd get Andromeda after reviews.

 

Bioware had decades of good will they managed to burn up inside of a year. They still blame players for their failures and other people had to fix their mistakes.

[gabigool]

This is why I stated it was ironic that SWTOR is now going to an expansion format (free expansion with frequent updates) that was similar to what BioWare wanted to do from the start.

 

Except for the part where there was supposed to be a lot of content.

 

I recall those interviews quite well. They were within the context of him defending the subscription model.

 

You're mis-characterizing his point. His "vision" was a large subscriber base being the resource engine which would allow them to create more content than FTP/Expansion models. He was quite clear on this.

 

Not that we would get episodic story..... and nothing else.

 

I suspect if you were to quantify what this game has seen from a new content standpoint it would not really resemble the sort of things he envisioned.

 

To portray KotFE in that particular context is disingenuous.

[Aowin]

...

 

Believe me. EA wasn't "saving" SWTOR because EA is generous. SWTOR was making a massive profit its first few months. It was the fastest growing MMO in genre history. Unfortunately, players were leaving in droves after getting through the class stories and it was clear the game would start operating at a loss as a subscriber-only MMO. EA forced BioWare to turn the game into a "F2P" MMO as a means of maintaining profit margins in the black, nothing more. EA couldn't care less what the players want. EA just wants high profits and fast returns on its investments.

 

BioWare isn't trying to "cut down" on group content. They are trying to find a better balance to support the game than the status quo. That obviously wasn't working very well, which is why BioWare went this new approach with KOTFE to start. I agree I'd like to see massive improvements with KOTET story-wise, but I'm also under the impression other sectors of the game won't be neglected.

 

You are assuming my own disposition towards the Doctors. I merely was making a point to say what expansions were intended to be in SWTOR, since everybody likes to assume "WoW-type expansions" are the norm for every MMO. I've played a lot of MMOs. I can tell you with certainty that SWTOR's strength has never been the MMO components. Rather, it was the storytelling that made the game so highly anticipated. Flashpoints, warzones, dailies, and operations were an afterthought, which is why those features were so heavily neglected at launch.

 

The truth of the matter is there are very few subscriber-only MMOs anymore. BioWare was attempting to do something new and innovative with the genre, but fell short for a variety of reasons. You can blame the Doctors for BioWare's failures and suggest BioWare is all "washed up," but no studio is infallible. SWTOR was easily the most anticipated MMO ever created and hype, alone, was working against it. I think SWTOR is a good MMO. It's just not a great MMO. This is why I think it's crucial that they focus on what makes this game stand out from the rest of the genre: Story.

[Aowin]

...

 

I never claimed KOTFE is exactly what Dr. Ray Muzyka envisioned. I did state, however, that it's closer to what BioWare wanted to do with expansions and content: free, frequent content updates that would be supported by a large subscriber base.

 

While chapter updates may not be exactly what he had in mind, they are "free, frequent content updates." RotHC and SoR were not free at all, which is definitely something the Doctors did not want to do in terms of post-release content for SWTOR.

[gabigool]

I never claimed KOTFE is exactly what Dr. Ray Muzyka envisioned. I did state, however, that it's closer to what BioWare wanted to do with expansions and content: free, frequent content updates that would be supported by a large subscriber base.

 

While chapter updates may not be exactly what he had in mind, they are "free, frequent content updates." RotHC and SoR were not free at all, which is definitely something the Doctors did not want to do in terms of post-release content for SWTOR.

 

Their point was not "free frequent content updates". Their point was they could produce more total content with a huge subscriber base.

 

I think the current model is the furthest we've ever been from their vision. The game is supported largely by microtransactions and the content release cadence - when volume is considered - is probably at it's lowest watermark since launch.

 

That said, I do believe - unlike many on here - that this game could have very easily gone in the direction these guys were speaking of. And I believe it still could. I agree with their premise that the subscription model is far from dead and this game could have made it work - and had it, we would be seeing far more content and content-types than the current state.

 

I'm not trying to split hairs. Seriously. I disagree with 90% of what you say but that's not why I replied to this specific point.

 

I think this studio continues to de-value its subscriber base and it has hurt the game. Your play is diminished by it. Mine. Everyone that logs in. So that comment jumped out at me because I remember very clearly what those guys were talking about and why. And what we have now is far, far away from that.

[Aowin]

...

 

Incorrect. Dr. Ray Muzyka very clearly highlighted that it would be free and constant content updates. He never stated anything about it being "more total content," just that we would have a constant flow of content where we wouldn't run out. In fact, he specifically said it wouldn't be similar to massive expansions, like WoW. A better comparison to what SWTOR wanted to do is what ESO is doing with their frequent DLC releases. That's more in line with what SWTOR wanted to do.

 

You are more than welcome to "disagree" all you like. BioWare made it pretty clear early on SWTOR was not meant to be a WoW clone, and certainly how BioWare was going to produce content and expansions was meant to be drastically different from MMOs like WoW. Either way, the game changed and KOTFE went a new direction. Whether it was successful or not is yet to be seen as we'll see what deviations, if any, KOTET makes.

[GENXPS]

I am if there is MMO content with it aka new raids and warzones.

[Aowin]

I am if there is MMO content with it aka new raids and warzones.

 

In fairness, KOTFE added a new wz and a new arena. The only content it failed to add was a new operation. I think KOTET will likely rectify that.

[Eleonora]

Can't wait to trudge through trash mobs and watch cutscenes about characters in a galaxy I don't care about. This game is no longer a Star Wars game.

 

Then leave. Why are you still paying for this game?

[gabigool]

Then leave. Why are you still paying for this game?

 

Perhaps there are other aspects of the game he finds appealing. This thread was specifically about KOTET.

 

How is that a difficult concept to understand?

[CKNORTH]

Yes, I am looking forward to it, hopefully BW/EA can give everything people want at 100% Capacity, let it Rain! WZ/OPs/SH/SM/HM/NiM/Weekly's/Daily's/CC Items/Perks/Andapartrigeinapairtree!

[gabigool]

Incorrect. Dr. Ray Muzyka very clearly highlighted that it would be free and constant content updates. He never stated anything about it being "more total content," just that we would have a constant flow of content where we wouldn't run out.

 

It took me less than 30 seconds to find a quote from him saying exactly that. Literally.

 

I get that you made this thread just to try to argue with anyone who replies saying they are not looking forward to KotFE but the point I was trying to make - and went completely over your head - is that I believe this game would benefit from a bit more emphasis from the studio on subscriber-retention.

[Transcendent]

I get that you made this thread just to try to argue with anyone who replies saying they are not looking forward to KotFE but the point I was trying to make - and went completely over your head - is that I believe this game would benefit from a bit more emphasis from the studio on subscriber-retention.

 

I think that BioWare have moved past this point personally, I only have to look at the guilds I'm in to see the effects on only focusing on one aspect of the game. That's lost revenue for BioWare and EA over the course of KotFE, how many other guilds are in a similar situation? How many players over all of the servers have simply moved on to other games such as Final Fantasy etc where they get the balance right when releasing expansions?

 

See, a lot of people bemoan TUXs when he points out that activity in the game has declined since KotFE. On the whole though, I see it every single time I log in to the game.

 

Do you honestly think all of those players are going to return to play a generic story, with a now generic character, just because BioWare decide to release any content different to story? They don't retain subscribers, simply because they don't focus down on all areas of the game, this is the issue BioWare has. It's not one of people not wanting to play the game, it's because they can't keep them because they don't produce the content on strict schedules.

 

Emphasis from the studio to rectify subscriber retention would involve BioWare actually having to listen and communicate with their player base frequently, and by that I don't mean random posts about Cartel Market stuff on Twitter.

[Aowin]

It took me less than 30 seconds to find a quote from him saying exactly that. Literally.

 

I get that you made this thread just to try to argue with anyone who replies saying they are not looking forward to KotFE but the point I was trying to make - and went completely over your head - is that I believe this game would benefit from a bit more emphasis from the studio on subscriber-retention.

 

Ironic considering you didn't link such a quote nor did you source it. Unless you actually back up your claim, I'm fairly certain you are taking creative liberties with what Dr. Ray Muzyka actually said.

 

Actually, I made this thread to get a sense of how folks actually felt about KOTET, good or bad. There are so many trolls on the forums it's hard to know what people actually think. I know you have an issue with me (don't really know why), but really remarks like these make it hard for me to take you seriously.

 

The entire point of KOTFE and KOTET is subscriber retention... RotHC and SoR had NO subscriber retention, which is why BioWare is trying to come up with mechanisms for creating incentives to elongate subscriber commitments.

[Costello]

Their point was not "free frequent content updates". Their point was they could produce more total content with a huge subscriber base.

 

I think the current model is the furthest we've ever been from their vision. The game is supported largely by microtransactions and the content release cadence - when volume is considered - is probably at it's lowest watermark since launch.

 

That said, I do believe - unlike many on here - that this game could have very easily gone in the direction these guys were speaking of. And I believe it still could. I agree with their premise that the subscription model is far from dead and this game could have made it work - and had it, we would be seeing far more content and content-types than the current state.

 

I'm not trying to split hairs. Seriously. I disagree with 90% of what you say but that's not why I replied to this specific point.

 

I think this studio continues to de-value its subscriber base and it has hurt the game. Your play is diminished by it. Mine. Everyone that logs in. So that comment jumped out at me because I remember very clearly what those guys were talking about and why. And what we have now is far, far away from that.

 

This is what I understood the vision was. They already had 1.2 the Rakghoul flashpoints and rumour is much of Makeb though it got cut back from the orginal plan (I stress rumour though does explain why this is the last time every companion has something to say) in the works and this was their plan. One month group content then solo story content with daily repeatable areas/quest chain etc etc. Its just a shame they misjudged the target audience so badly with the Rakghoul flash points, turns out 30 second chain stuns instant death mechanics weren't as appealing as the people designing them thought.

 

By then though I was under the impression that BW had become EA and fair play if you don't want your name associated with products you no longer have the deciding vote on.

 

Ultimately this shows why metrics can't be relied upon, they released awful group content (Rakghoul flashpoints) that most people rage quit over and went to try one of the other class stories. The metrics then show people love solo content over group content, but this is only because group content is so badly done. Before anyone goes it ain't so bad this was back in the day when you complete the main story and then purchased blue PvP gear cause it was far far far better than the junk you had picked up which was mostly green junk. While at the same time releasing Kotfe around the time of the Force Awakens, and thinking that the reason for the increase in subs is because Kofte is the best expansion ever. Though people from the marketing team need to be replaced in this, when I went to see TFA there was a long advert for Class of Titans or some such and the Lego star wars game and yet the Kofte trailer was strangely absent. An MMO and and Star Wars game think to advertise yet a Star Wars MMO doesn't and these people are paid big bucks to advertise this game???