Does anyone else feel like they are not playing Star Wars anymore?

[Sshodan]

Just a feeling I can not shake for a few month now: to me Star Wars is all about the Empire and Republic - "perfect army" and technical ingenious against human spirit and willingness to go as many extra miles as it takes to do the right thing.

It's about the Force and it's inherit duality and ethereal struggle for balance that will never resolve itself - the light and dark at constant opposites, pushing things to move, change and evolve.

It's about the Jedi and the Sith - both sides sacrificing in their own ways, paying the price to touch something grater than any single human.

It's although about the small stuff - the ships, the droids, the multitude of aliens - seeing the places that I love or heard about...

And lately there has been NON of that. Absolutely nothing - Zakuul is... Not Star Wars to me. I can't wrap my head around this "grand power with all new understanding of force" existing and not being mentioned or referenced anywhere else in Star Wars history ever again, it's like Bioware added an elephant in to a small tightly packed china shop!

There is no empire or republic now, and ideologically I'm not really sure if Zakuul stands for anything at all... Does it?

The force is some... Amorphous gray thing all of a sudden - everywhere in the Star Wars lore, including many thousand years later, it's polar, and here it... Not? Are they sure they are talking about the same Force thing? Or is it just some kind of "Zakuul magic" thing instead?

And finally the places, the ships, droids and aliens... Suddenly we have non of that - instead just.... Knight in armor, that does not even look much as anything SW to me... With gloving spears. And the same "sky troopers" that let's admit it - are boring. Nothing to make me thing of Star Wars lore what so ever.

What surprises me the most, is that they decided to stop doing SW environments and stories just when the movies came out - so many people who loved them would want to play a SW game... Except that the latest content does not invoke the SW vibe any longer. I sometimes feel that I could as well download a light saber mode for Skyrim and I'll get the same "Star Wars experience".

Sorry for the long post, maybe I'm just venting... But I can't shake the feeling and I find it frustrating. I just want the same feels that I got from riding over Tatooin dunes again, or seeing what Alderaan looked like before...

Edited August 18, 2016 by Sshodan

[Belpheghor]

WIth you 100%, I miss the war we started out with, the Sith Empire vs the Republic.

 

I chose the Imperials because I wanted to fight the Republic, not join up with them in some cross faction oddity.

 

Ever since the Revan expansion the storytelling has taken a sharp dive.

 

I still love the game for the PvP, but the storymode is pretty much dead to me anymore.

 

I want to see them finish this knights of the fallen empire stuff and go back to the roots again.

 

Have more stories centered around our experiences as either an Imperial or a Republic fighter.

 

We all grew up watching Jedi and Sith fighting, not holding hands.

[demotivator]

The fact is the Sith Empire had to die at some point since it vanished again in the movies era. So it means that imp players have signed on the losing side from the start, that would be quite frustrating to end the storyline like this so I guess they went for the other option where the galactic population actually puts aside their differences (against a common enemy, Zakuul) and imp citizens slowly incorporate the Republic.

 

That makes sense to me and I see nothing shocking (it's kind of a cultural victory in Civ games).

Edited August 18, 2016 by demotivator

[Sshodan]

The fact is the Sith Empire had to die at some point since it vanished again in the movies era. So it means that imp players have signed on the losing side from the start, that would be quite frustrating to end the storyline like this so I guess they went for the other option where the galactic population actually puts aside their differences (against a common enemy, Zakuul) and imp citizens slowly incorporate the Republic.

 

That makes sense to me and I see nothing shocking (it's kind of a cultural victory in Civ games).

 

In EU the fall of the Sith empire is actually mentioned. That's when the "rule of two" is made - by the last Sith standing. The empire basically self distracts from Sith being at each others throats and backstabbing each other at all the wrong moments The Republic... Well it just takes what is give and uses the opportunities.

Anyway - if I remember the chronological order correctly it is not going to happen for a very long time yet - not in our characters lifetime.

And I do remind you that the Old Republic collapsed as well - so the Republicans are on the loosing side just as much.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Sshodan

[Gokkus]

I totally agree. I just went through RotHC again and its great:

Two totally different stories depending on faction, both are happening at the same time, it is still Imps vs. Reps despite a third faction, it mentions your past story depending on class, it advances the vanilla story in many ways, you can really continue being a darth or a smuggler and it both makes sense, your original companions speak all the time, it feels way more like open world and way less like a railroad, your actions alone save millions of people or an entire planet/faction.

 

Now planet design and mob-density are awful on Makeb at times, but story-wise they had the right idea IMO. A continuation of the story, of the war, of your character. THAT is what I really wanted, for the war to evolve and to bring new challenges. Instead we get two expanions that decreasingly deal with this war till it's just a distant memory. Star Wars is about that war! So I know it's not possible to make 8 stories or VO 40+ companions. But two (faction) stories with occasional references to you class (story) must be doable.

 

So yes, I am still playing a Star Wars themed game, but not a Star Wars story.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Gokkus

[Sshodan]

Yep - I have to say that story wise Makeb is my favorite expansion - it is brilliantly written - not only it changes with factions but the whole feel of it changes drastically with your choices - I felt... Drained after full dark side run of it - it felt, urgent, necessary yet terrible on so many levels, like a real suicide mission.

Choose the lighter path and it still works - not as gloom but again very tense. I love Makeb story ans wish we got more like it.

Oh, and I do thing that the planet it self looks gorgeous - very sorry that the dailies and heroics where somewhat ill conceived.

[Gokkus]

Yep - I have to say that story wise Makeb is my favorite expansion - it is brilliantly written - not only it changes with factions but the whole feel of it changes drastically with your choices - I felt... Drained after full dark side run of it - it felt, urgent, necessary yet terrible on so many levels, like a real suicide mission.

Choose the lighter path and it still works - not as gloom but again very tense. I love Makeb story ans wish we got more like it.

Oh, and I do thing that the planet it self looks gorgeous - very sorry that the dailies and heroics where somewhat ill conceived.

 

Oh it is definitely a very eye-pleasing planet. With design, I mean logistically. It feels fractured because of the mesa's and some areas are really a drag to get to/through. I think Alderaan and Balmorra are way better designed.

[Sshodan]

Yep... Yet is still better than Zakuul... Which is one swamp, one junkyard and a set of corridors... All disjointed

[peter_plankskull]

The fact is the Sith Empire had to die at some point since it vanished again in the movies era. So it means that imp players have signed on the losing side from the start, that would be quite frustrating to end the storyline like this so I guess they went for the other option where the galactic population actually puts aside their differences (against a common enemy, Zakuul) and imp citizens slowly incorporate the Republic.

 

That makes sense to me and I see nothing shocking (it's kind of a cultural victory in Civ games).

 

...The sith Empire doesn't even die out to at least 1500 years later, assuming we take it literally "The sith haven't been around for a 1,000 years." Not to mention, from what I get, this is their own universe their telling, the movies don't exist in this universe and/or timeline.

[Storm-Cutter]

For me it's epic battles - either between two individuals with lightsabres, or between huge fleets of ships. It's about scoundrels and technology and aliens and seedy bars. - It's about chases and quick-witted solutions to problems. It's about characters with merits as well as flaws. It's about the little guy getting one over against the oppressive machine.

 

Blaster cannons, big guns, big explosions, running along catwalks and jumping gaps, learning old lore, and that people who are the enemy are your relatives. About legacy and dynasties, empires verses rebels or armies of clones verses armies of robots. Alien languages, and ancient mysticism.

 

It's about big vistas of new planets- the dunes of Tattoine or the Wastes of Hoth, the jungles and the crowded cities.

 

It isn't about tiny areas on a shoe-string budget with Jedi-Knight story for everyone. - With obligatory Mandos and HKs and riding monsters as mounts, looking at a hundred identical clones of Lana Beniko.

 

It certainly isn't about letting the villain steal everything you have and having to repeat old stuff to get it back only for the villain to get away without justice.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Storm-Cutter

[BorisKarloffe]

That will all depend on what they expect from a Star Wars story.

 

The biggest problem right now with the Star Wars franchise as a whole is that the folks responsible for creating content are so fixated with having all the familiar tropes from past stories that they've forgotten they NEED A GOOD STORY TO START WITH.

 

Developers and filmmakers think that if they have all the "elements" that fans are expecting, that it will be a success.

 

That's like mixing ingredients without having the recipe/instructions and expecting it to turn out right.

 

The most recent movie, The Force Awakens, was a prime example. People generally gave it a free pass on the criticism either because they were so happy to have something Star Wars after so many years, or because they felt that the politically correct elements were so pleasing to them. Only weeks after it's release did people start popping up and saying negative things about it.

 

KotFE feels much the same way in that as long as all the familiar things were there (evil empire, family drama, force user fights, superweapons, etc) that it would be an epic story. Unfortunately, it's even more disjointed than TFA. It's almost as if someone sat down and said: "We want the PC to end up in x, y, and z situations. Writers, make it happen." Then the writers had to finagle and contrive their way through the plot, destroy character quality, and leave gaping plot holes to make them happen.

 

Add into this mess the financial pressure of corporate stink eye and you end up with stories that have pointlessly repetitive confrontations and battles (i.e. the cgi Clone Wars series) between marquee characters just so they could perpetuate the series/money. This is the pattern KotFE has fallen into as well.

 

I am curious to see how some of the other SW projects do, and I sincerely do hope the creators realize that the Brand will not save them from shoddy product quality or the backlash from it. Marvel and DC can vouch for that.

[Costello]

I agree, it is feeling like it has less and less to do with star wars and more like one of the B movies that tried to borrow as much as they could without getting done for copyright.

 

The concept isn't a bad one, if you could only tell one star wars story and accepted that Empire has the best story you tell the story of the band of rebels fighting against an all powerful empire with at some point the hero learning more about the force with the story ending on something of a defeat.

 

But taking their premise the writers seem to have gone off the rails and no one thought to bring it back in, never really setting up the state of the galaxy, fleshing out this new empire, giving it believable villains or telling a story about this band of freedom fighters.

 

Instead we have inconsistent one dimensional characters, a completely contradictory version of the force, An Alliance commander who never makes any decisions and 15 chapters in which nothing happens (Chapter 1 a lot happened).

 

If they didn't have the budget to tell a galaxy spanning conflict for our rebels fair play, tell a much smaller story with narrower but more meaningful choices. Rather than what feels like a lot of filler or stand alone chapters with one set story arc which doesn't make a lot of sense. Least of all telling the star wars epic fight of sith vs jedi, empire vs republic.

[Andryah]

Claiming it's not Star Wars unless it's Empire vs Republic, in the context of the very long timeline that covers Star Wars, is complete nostalgic nonsense IMO.

 

Yes.. the original Movie series was built around an epic civil war. So what. Lucas simply copied the long standing story format of good vs evil and put new labels and lore around it. If you read SW books over the last two decades, not to mention all the expanded timeline... it's not all about Empire VS Republic.

 

This game happens to run in a very old timeline WAY before the timeline of the movies, which leaves a lot of creative latitude to have story arcs and themes beyond just the classic E vs R.

 

So yeah.. it still feels like Star Wars to me, just not full on civil ware between E vs R.

[Andryah]

I agree, it is feeling like it has less and less to do with star wars and more like one of the B movies that tried to borrow as much as they could without getting done for copyright.

 

The entire Star Wars story arc for the movies was Lucas copying the format of weekly B serials in the movie theaters of the 40s and 50s. All he did really was build a lore framework and then slather all the classic good vs evil of the weekly theater series of the old days.

[casirabit]

My problem with it is not so much the civil war between the Empire and Republic theme. My problem is how much is this really tied into the Lore of Star Wars. Yea I know some of the lore has been redone but for me to make a star wars game, etc, still needs to have some lore to it.

 

The chapter with the emperor gave me an issue as there was always a dividing line between the dark side and light side, though some claim to use both, but yet in that chapter we were supposed to embrace both sides. My light side jedi would never embrace a side that has dark side in it. She knows very well what the dark side can do and would not even consider it.

 

Yet we are not really given a choice in that chapter. We don't really get a choice to refuse it and for some individuals that can be a problem. In Star Wars you always have had a choice to accept what someone claims about the force or reject it. We didn't have that choice.

 

To me that doesn't make sense in the lore that I have come to know over the years. I know for some, it isn't a big deal, maybe they haven't been that much into the lore or they figure it is okay but to me it is important.

 

Even in our roleplay we took the time to research to see if what we were considering was in the lore, such as the weapons and planets.

Edited August 18, 2016 by casirabit

[Aowin]

SWTOR has never been about Republic versus Empire, not even at launch. The closest thing we had to a "battle" was Ilum World PvP and that was taken out. Warzones were always skirmishes and class stories vaguely mentioned the galactic war starting again in passing. The expansions have always focused on a third faction. The Star Wars you want has never been this game.

[TUXs]

It stopped feeling like Star Wars when Revan was reintroduced for like the 5th time.

[Theradonh]

This game happens to run in a very old timeline WAY before the timeline of the movies, which leaves a lot of creative latitude to have story arcs and themes beyond just the classic E vs R.

 

So yeah.. it still feels like Star Wars to me, just not full on civil ware between E vs R.

 

Who cares about the timeline of the movies? Swtor is "non canon" so they don't need to go the same way like the movies (empire will fall etc etc).

 

 

 

The sad thing is: the story is nothing special. The class stories were fantastic ( a few of them*) but the kotfe story is just .. meeh.

Without the star wars soundtrack and the .. force.. this would not feel like a star wars game.

 

It's a bit like the new battlefront. Disable the soundtrack and it's just a really bad shooter.

[ikinai]

It stopped feeling like Star Wars when Revan was reintroduced for like the 5th time.

 

Indeed, I'd of rather had the descendants of the Exiles crew represented, like the Shans were, sadly that's all we got Shan Shan Shan. Oh look it's Revan, again, yawn. Now, it's Oh look it's Vitiate/Valkorian, again, yawn.

[HuaRya]

KOTFE to me has felt like the Roman Empire and we are Spartacus and not so much Star Wars.

 

What I don't like about the writers and Jar Jar Abrams is how they re-imagine the sandbox instead of working with the essence of it. Everything up until Dread Masters shared a common border around the Old Republic. Zakuul falls out of the contiguous galaxy and has too much of Fritz Lang Metropolis feel complete with SCORPIO seedlings running the place.

 

What did feel Star Wars was the one chapter where you go to the industrial world run by the Trandoshans. Otherwise all of KOTFE is juxtapose to TOR. LvD event and the RPG story content magnify that dis associative feel that it's not quite Star Wars.

[TUXs]

Indeed, I'd of rather had the descendants of the Exiles crew represented, like the Shans were, sadly that's all we got Shan Shan Shan. Oh look it's Revan, again, yawn. Now, it's Oh look it's Vitiate/Valkorian, again, yawn.

That's a good idea actually! And you know it's building to be a Revan vs. Valkorian finale. Jedi and Sith are powerful, but they're not GODlike.

[JediQuaker]

Since SWTOR is a "pre-quel" to the movies, we can rest assured that the SW galaxy will go back to being Jedi versus Sith at some point.

[Audoucet]

The fact is the Sith Empire had to die at some point since it vanished again in the movies era. So it means that imp players have signed on the losing side from the start, that would be quite frustrating to end the storyline like this so I guess they went for the other option where the galactic population actually puts aside their differences (against a common enemy, Zakuul) and imp citizens slowly incorporate the Republic.

 

That makes sense to me and I see nothing shocking (it's kind of a cultural victory in Civ games).

 

The Empire could perfectly have won. It wouldn't mean that the Republic couldn't come back. As a matter of fact, wouldn't it have been more interesting, if the entire KOTFE storyline, was actually about a victory of Vitiate ?

 

You could have exactly the same story... He gets killed by [sith X], and you are the fall guy. Some "Empire" soldiers are on your side, for the simple reason that The Wrath/Darth Imperox would be a better soldier, or with the Agent/The Bounty Hunter, because they've had enough being led by an incompetent tool. You get the same context, way more comparable to the Original Trilogy.

[ikinai]

Okay, I think I just figured it out. So, Revan has been dealt with. Vitiate is on his way out. The galaxy is in shambles. A rogue droid is pulling strings, based on some nebulous super power of old, but is being dealt with I assume soon. That leaves one more entity, the most devious and cunning of all; Leontyne Saresh. The true puppet master. We must deal with her, before she places a holostation on every world imploring us to Work together, together we can rebuild the galaxy. Let's get to work, together.

[SteveTheCynic]

The chapter with the emperor gave me an issue as there was always a dividing line between the dark side and light side, though some claim to use both, but yet in that chapter we were supposed to embrace both sides. My light side jedi would never embrace a side that has dark side in it. She knows very well what the dark side can do and would not even consider it.

 

Yet we are not really given a choice in that chapter. We don't really get a choice to refuse it and for some individuals that can be a problem. In Star Wars you always have had a choice to accept what someone claims about the force or reject it. We didn't have that choice.

CAVEAT LECTOR: My consumption of SW content is limited to SWTOR, Episodes 4, 5, and 6, and Splinter of the Mind's Eye and Han Solo at Star's End. This last was noteworthy for having no light sabres at all.

 

I presume you are talking about Chapter XII, where you make the special weapon. You *do* have the option to choose to follow just Satele's influence, just Marr's, or the two together, although I have only chosen to take both, so I don't know what happens if you reject one of them.

 

I'd also characterise Satele's and Marr's advice differently. Cue spoiler box.

 

They do not say that you must accept both light and dark. They say, instead, that you must transcend such distinctions, find a new interpretation of the Force, just as the Knights of Zakuul have done (although clearly their interpretation is not right for you). I'd also say that the writers didn't do the best possible job showing the player doing that, but that's a separate question.