Please Make Hard Mode Flashpoints Worth it.

[peter_plankskull]

Please Bioware, make them worth it again.

 

As of right now, hard mode flashpoints don't have anything going for them other than a one time play though for the DVL event which usually attracts players who aren't ready for that content. The ONE thing going for it, the DVL event, actually creates a negative action. My suggestions from my own personal opinion, is that the gear should be bumped to 220 optimized for standard bosses depending on the flashpoint, and 220 set bonus for bonus bosses depending on which ones you defeat as well.

 

Their use to be this gearing ring that existed pre 4.0... it went - solo content>story mode flashpoint> hard mode flashpoints> operations. That exists no longer and I would argue even tacticals in terms of gearing have no point, their only used for XP, but at least that's something. Due to the bolster in story mode operations being so strong, all you have to do is show up with a slot filled and voila, its passable with no optimization or preparation at all, only a modicum of skill. This now leaves hard mode flashpoints completely void of any and all purpose as they aren't worth the time and effort anymore.

 

Another problem I find with these are the lack of brackets, I mean why should Esseles reward the same drops as blood hunt when its simply far easier? Should that droid in Esseles, the bonus boss, really reward the same gear as Commander Moken in Battle of Rishi? They need to bring brackets back for hard mode flashpoints in terms of gear drops and have "personal drops," like they do in tacticals, to ensure that everyone gets a worthwhile piece for their effort for what they have accomplished. Theirs only 4 gear drops anymore in hard mode flashpoints, and that's assuming you somehow get a group willing to do bonus, and out of these 4, only two hold some use. Chances are it won't even pertain to your class either, as it not only could drop a tank/DPS/healing gear, but one of the 8 offhands or main hands that pertains to the different advanced classes which leaves no hope in the galaxy to ever get something that pertains to you. Personal drops will be a god send will be implemented if you, for whatever reason, don't wish to make hard mode flashpoints worth it in terms of effort used to obtain gear.

 

My biggest gripe with hard mode flashpoints is how far their easily overshadowed by story mode operations. It's like hard mode flashpoints is the "special" red headed step child in a family full of blond hair and blue eyes anymore. Farming story mode operations is far easier than most hard mode flashpoints and gives far better rewards with a set bonus that is optimized, decorations for personal use or to sell, and a DMC. Theirs much more value in running these, and while it is only doable once per week, they could always swap toons and use legacy gear to further progress. Maybe they don't have alts somehow are or new to the game, but yes, the lockout is still a problem, however it's still infinitely more useful to wait a week than farming countless hard mode flashpoints over time. You can run them till the cows come home maxing out achievements, and the reward will never measure up to the unlimited power of operations.

 

I would also like to see decoration drop rates restored or bumped up so they actually drop more than 5% of the time to give another added bonus and audience inclined to run these, as vanity items will create a better incentive to do the bonus boss. Even as far as going adding more vanity items such as pets...additional mounts... decorations...titles... anything to increase it with fluff would be nice if you don't want to give them a purpose for gearing anymore.

 

Please Bioware, you can do it, make it worthwhile again.

[Ethern]

Please Bioware, make them worth it again.

Why?

 

As of right now, hard mode flashpoints don't have anything going for them other than a one time play though for the DVL event which usually attracts players who aren't ready for that content. The ONE thing going for it, the DVL event, actually creates a negative action. My suggestions from my own personal opinion, is that the gear should be bumped to 220 optimized for standard bosses depending on the flashpoint, and 220 set bonus for bonus bosses depending on which ones you defeat as well.

So you're suggesting that a 4 man set up rewards as much as a 16 man set up? Am I reading this right? Do you actually realize that it will means the death of the 16 man?

 

Their use to be this gearing ring that existed pre 4.0... it went - solo content>story mode flashpoint> hard mode flashpoints> operations. That exists no longer and I would argue even tacticals in terms of gearing have no point, their only used for XP, but at least that's something. Due to the bolster in story mode operations being so strong, all you have to do is show up with a slot filled and voila, its passable with no optimization or preparation at all, only a modicum of skill. This now leaves hard mode flashpoints completely void of any and all purpose as they aren't worth the time and effort anymore.

True and they should stay that way imo. Again there is too much collision with operations, and the content which involves larger set up should be favored.

 

My biggest gripe with hard mode flashpoints is how far their easily overshadowed by story mode operations. It's like hard mode flashpoints is the "special" red headed step child in a family full of blond hair and blue eyes anymore. Farming story mode operations is far easier than most hard mode flashpoints and gives far better rewards with a set bonus that is optimized, decorations for personal use or to sell, and a DMC. Theirs much more value in running these, and while it is only doable once per week, they could always swap toons and use legacy gear to further progress. Maybe they don't have alts somehow are or new to the game, but yes, the lockout is still a problem, however it's still infinitely more useful to wait a week than farming countless hard mode flashpoints over time. You can run them till the cows come home maxing out achievements, and the reward will never measure up to the unlimited power of operations.

 

I can't agree. I have pug'ed three operations now and two HM FP, I did not feel the former as easier than the latter. Actually the reverse. I wiped in ops SM, I never wiped in HM FPs. The difficulty in those latter is artificial at best.

 

Please Bioware, you can do it, make it worthwhile again.

To what end, you still have not told why?

I don't want to be forced to do HM FPs. Op SM at least let you see major stories outcomes, such as the Dread Masters' fate on Oricon. I could not care less about... Actually I don't remember the story in Cademimu.

My 2 cents in blue

[yeldarbnotned]

I agree. There is very little incentive to do HM flashpoints. Unless of course, you simply enjoy doing them. But, alas, not many people seem to enjoy them as I do.

[VegasTheLost]

While I don't fully agree in the gearing part, but most definiately agree on the deco drops. I would be more than happy to run the HM FPs all day long to get a few decos for our guildship. I get that it's more money to introduce decos in CM but still, is the game about spending money or play the game itself?

[merovejec]

I agree with having to make the HM fps more attractive. I have now started to farm the achievments for the HM fps, since SM are all done. Its terrible what players you encouter in the flashpoints. Its mostly new people trying them out in low gear and no class knowledge. Naturally many HM fps fail. I mostly have to carry the group as healer and offdps.

 

I agree on making it more attractive so that better players join them, gear is the best bait for this, but they need to consider what gear lvl the fps will give. Yes, you have 9 operations, which you can do in a week and you get MUCH better gear from those, even can fully gear yourself in a week. From HM fps you get crap crystal gear.

 

Also deco drops are nerefed so there is really no point of doing HM fps, just for achievments like im doing it.

[Mowermanx]

I can't agree. I have pug'ed three operations now and two HM FP, I did not feel the former as easier than the latter. Actually the reverse. I wiped in ops SM, I never wiped in HM FPs. The difficulty in those latter is artificial at best.

You cannot of pugged or played too many HM FP's if you haven't had a wipe.

Of course, there are exceptions in the ops and fps for difficulty or easiness, but overall they are much closer than you think.

As for the OP, I feel they should have it like it was up to 2.0 and have the initial tier in the FP's. There were 4 tiers then, Tionese, Columi, Rakata and Campaign.

[peter_plankskull]

My 2 cents in blue

 

So you're suggesting that a 4 man set up rewards as much as a 16 man set up? Am I reading this right? Do you actually realize that it will means the death of the 16 man?

 

True and they should stay that way imo. Again there is too much collision with operations, and the content which involves larger set up should be favored.

 

I'm on Harb, and ever since the launch of 4.0 I honestly can't recall more than maybe three 16 man runs anymore, at least via pugging. Just because it requires more effort to put in a group doesn't automatically mean it should yield better rewards if the difficulty isn't curved up. Does this mean when we have 40 man raids, and since its larger than 16 man, it should yield better rewards, regardless of difficulty?

 

I can't agree. I have pug'ed three operations now and two HM FP, I did not feel the former as easier than the latter. Actually the reverse. I wiped in ops SM, I never wiped in HM FPs. The difficulty in those latter is artificial at best.

 

You obviously need a larger pool of data here to grasp the difficulties of each. Commander Moken in battle of rishi is harder than probably over half of most SM bosses in operations requiring a VERY high DPS and heals check, along with situational awareness and management of stacks, and use of defenses. Can we really say the same about EV council or Kephess TFB? Esseles is of course going to be harder than TOS, etc. etc. however if you look at the overall design between the two, hard mode flashpoints have more punishing mechanics and requires a larger knowledge of classes than story mode operations.

 

I don't want to be forced to do HM FPs. Op SM at least let you see major stories outcomes, such as the Dread Masters' fate on Oricon. I could not care less about... Actually I don't remember the story in Cademimu.

 

...So you actually like the idea of zero preparation, meaningless stat distribution and OP bolster? Bolster ruined a incredibly larger part of group content and made several activities no longer viable and completely void, hard mode flashpoints being the biggest offender here. Poor comparison imo using DF/DP, the ops with the most story, and use a lowly example like Cademimu. Maelstrom Prison, Foundry, Taral V, False Emperor, Battle of Illum, and any post 50 flashpoints have far more story and interaction than most operations.

 

Admitably my gear suggestion does seem a bit out of whack and I suppose it shouldn't completely triumph story mode operations, but the difficulty is far greater in these and should be more rewarding. Perhaps 220 mk-2 on a standard boss and 216 set bonus on a bonus boss will be better?

Edited August 3, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[Warrgames]

I'm going to hate myself for this and feel dirty afterwards. But I agree with Peter. Group size doesn't mean more challenging. Gear should be reward based on challenge not group size.

[peter_plankskull]

I'm going to hate myself for this and feel dirty afterwards.

 

Don't lie... we all know you like it... everyone does when they agree with their adversaries .

[DreadtechSavant]

I'm going to hate myself for this and feel dirty afterwards. But I agree with Peter. Group size doesn't mean more challenging. Gear should be reward based on challenge not group size.

 

I don't do them, however yes I do feel that the reward should be worth it to a certain degree. Remember you chose to do these because its what you enjoy doing so its not hard work. Doing the same Op over and over is no different than doing the same story over and over. You don't see any other group complaining and asking for better rewards (well maybe except for credits) . Still I have no real objection if BW did give extra as a reward for Op's, however It should not be better gear. Far to many of you abuse it. The issue then becomes what should it be? Good question no easy answer.

[btmart]

I don't agree with the set piece drops. Other than that, I do agree that HM FP's should have more meaningful gear drops. Each boss should drop a 216 piece, and the bonus boss should drop a 220 piece (equivalent to the trash drops in HM OPs). I have zero incentive to run HM HP's anymore, and I do miss that. Although even with my suggestions I still wouldn't have any incentive to run them, but if I were newer to group content, and hadn't run them all 100 times each, I'd be all over it.

 

Right now the drops are absolute garbage.

[Beachdudeca]

They should update the flash points so thst hard mode bosses likt in star fortress drop deco or at least a chanceof one , this would give incentives without impacting operations

[Ethern]

I'm going to hate myself for this and feel dirty afterwards. But I agree with Peter. Group size doesn't mean more challenging. Gear should be reward based on challenge not group size.

Well there is that debate in every single AAA MMO forums. At the end of the day difficulty assessment changes from a person to another. Only the devs know what they tuned harder, and considering the format of the game, they will always assume it's harder to coordinate a larger group; hence why raids in almost every AAA MMO always yielded better rewards than small group content.

Moreover I dont find the FPs fun in this game, they rely on a old model. So I sincerely hope we aren't forced to do them, even though I can understand the reasoning behind making relevant some content you like. But like I said there is too much collision with current OPs.

The way I see it is it would be acceptable if they totally adopt a new format, like in WoW with their mythic dungeons and challenge mode dungeons. Less dragged out content with more specific challenges. And even there their rewards do not compete with raid ones.

[Transcendent]

Please Bioware, make them worth it again.

 

As of right now, hard mode flashpoints don't have anything going for them other than a one time play though for the DVL event which usually attracts players who aren't ready for that content. The ONE thing going for it, the DVL event, actually creates a negative action. My suggestions from my own personal opinion, is that the gear should be bumped to 220 optimized for standard bosses depending on the flashpoint, and 220 set bonus for bonus bosses depending on which ones you defeat as well.

 

What would be the point of running operations then?

 

Bosses currently drop 208 Orange shells (blue mods) and the final boss drops 216 Purple shells (purple mods) in HM flashpoints (not all of them mind you, it isn't consistent).

 

I think they could bump it to 216 Purple Shells (purple mods) and the final boss to 216 Purple shells (set bonus mods) without affecting operations participation too much, but adding 220 stuff in the mix I think is the wrong approach.

 

One thing I would like altered is seeing decos drop in HM flashpoints on a much more consistent basis, especially on the harder HM flashpoints like Bloodhunt and Manaan etc. I've seen one deco drop in all of the flashpoints I've run. 2 HM flashpoints to go, so that drop rate for decos is pretty nigh on close to zero.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Transcendent

[gabigool]

I do agree that HM FP's have become devalued to the point where there are largely ignored by the majority of the playerbase. And I believe, overall, that is not healthy for the game long term as they are a far better "bridge" between the easier game content and more difficult endgame content than anything else in the game - including SM Ops and Eternal Championship.

 

But the issue is not so simple as adjusting the rewards. In fact, I think that's a horrible solution, if nothing else is changed.

 

Reality is that the entire endgame structure is broken. Beyond broken. Any solution to any of the current issues needs to start with this fact.

 

Simply put, as long as HM EV/KP reward 224 gear, HMFP's will be irrelevant. And as long as bolster exists in Operations in its current state, HMFP's will be irrelevant.

 

I can understand and empathize with the idea of making Operations more accessible to more people. I truly can.

 

But there is more than one path to doing this, and the path we are currently on has caused far more problems than it has solved. It seems to me that a path where players have incentive to develop a minimal threshold of comprehension about their class, group class mechanics and the encounters themselves will lead to far more participation, success and enjoyment. Anyone who has experienced group play outside of guild/teamplay has to recognize the playerbase is currently woefully under-prepared to contribute at any sort of meaningful level.

 

My suggestion is that EV/KP should be nothing more than a weekly, separate from all other existing Operations content and should reward nothing but 208/216 non set gear, decorations and commendations. It should serve as an introduction to meaningful Operations content - not as such content. Because it is not.

 

HM FP's should drop 216 MK-2 gear. The groupfinder needs to be split into tiers, with places like LI and BH separate from places like Battle of Ilum and Foundry. The upper tier should be 65 only, have no bolster and drop 216 token pieces off the last boss.

 

Bolster is fine for things like EV/KP. But it has no place in the rest of Operations content. Having SM operations filled with level 52 players makes no sense. These players belong in Flashpoints.

 

And lastly, I would get rid of Priority Operations entirely. It takes away meaningful choice for groups - they can't focus on the Operations they want to, rather they feel pressure to do something different each week. I'm sorry but the idea that players should be focusing on obtaining 224 gear is just a destructive mindset. Players should be focused on beating bosses. The gear comes to groups that can do that.

[Warrgames]

Don't lie... we all know you like it... everyone does when they agree with their adversaries .

 

Adversaries? I think of you more like one of those henchman that gets chopped and is knocked out for a week.

 

Tux on the other hand is my arch nemesis. If you ever saw a picture of Tux you would understand. He has those handlebar moustache and extra pointy goatee. He dress all in black with a black cap and top hat. Carries around a giant red light saber.

[Cedia]

Right now there are several flashpoints that are labeled "Hard Mode" that are indeed Nightmare: Blood Hunt, Battle of Rishi, Depths of Manaan, and Lost Island.

 

I have little doubt that I could complete these with a team who was similarly geared/leveled as myself (216), however, the group finder allows level 50s and those who have even less than 208 gear. Bolstering does not seem to work properly, if at all.

 

It is an exercise in frustration trying to get these done.

[tharbison]

I play HM FPs almost exclusively & would love to see better rewards. In the past I've suggested giving FP tokens for tanks and healers to get the Q's to pop faster. These tokens could be used at specialty vendors to purchase desirable items/gear not available anywhere else.

 

The DVL event has introduced some type of counter per character to determine if a DVL requirement has been met. I could see that being used post-event to also give additional rewards for completing X number of FP's. i.e. you would get a FP token after running 10 FPs or something. Tanks and healers would get double.

[TUXs]

Tux on the other hand is my arch nemesis. If you ever saw a picture of Tux you would understand. He has those handlebar moustache and extra pointy goatee. He dress all in black with a black cap and top hat. Carries around a giant red light saber.

I was going for the "Godfather" look...but I look more like Snidely Whiplash

[TonyTricicolo]

If you like a challenge, try doing Hard Mode Lost Island. Not many people can say they completed it after the 4.0 NGE

[myrdinn]

If you like a challenge, try doing Hard Mode Lost Island. Not many people can say they completed it after the 4.0 NGE

 

The leaper and Rakghoul dps stages are the main trick on that one.

 

A ton of folks can't seem to figure out how to use the terminals on the leaper. And, the last stage of the last boss requires a dps output well beyond the 'normal' and listed hm requirements/bolster.

[Warrgames]

If you like a challenge, try doing Hard Mode Lost Island. Not many people can say they completed it after the 4.0 NGE

 

Did it yesterday with 57 healer no issue.

[Transcendent]

Right now there are several flashpoints that are labeled "Hard Mode" that are indeed Nightmare: Blood Hunt, Battle of Rishi, Depths of Manaan, and Lost Island.

 

I have little doubt that I could complete these with a team who was similarly geared/leveled as myself (216), however, the group finder allows level 50s and those who have even less than 208 gear. Bolstering does not seem to work properly, if at all.

 

It is an exercise in frustration trying to get these done.

 

It isn't just about the gear of the players, it's also about tactics and having competent team members. I've literally got one HM flashpoint to do now for the DvL thing, I've run everything in 208 PvP gear (okay, it's augmented) and I'm running it on a specific toon on a specific class that I've played for years.

 

So it isn't a gear issue, except when the super casual players wander into a HM flashpoint like Blood Hunt in level 40 green gear, or don't bother to stick crystals in their weapons (I blame that specific one directly on BioWare for no longer including them....).

 

The main issue is that so many "new or returning" players simply don't have a clue what they are doing, or what the tactics are in those newer flashpoints. Lost Island has always been one of those oddball flashpoints that some people can do, and others always seem clueless on.

 

Heck Manaan I didn't even wipe on, that has more to do with having a decent group of players than anything related to gear.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Transcendent

[TonyTricicolo]

I ran with a pug the other day and the tank kept trapping himself in the corner with the Robot/fire boss. Edited August 3, 2016 by TonyTricicolo

[LyraineAlei]

I've yet to do a HM FP since 4.0 dropped and I couldn't just curbstomp my way through them on a level 60 (or 55, or so forth), but HM FPs drops decos and Solos do not, not sure about Tacticals (haven't run in a group doing bonus stuff in them since I'm right now leveling the six to fifty after my War and Cons to 65) but I've heard they don't drop decos in Tacts either.

 

Maybe HM could drop a 220 mod or something similar, like the mod pieces of those 220/224/whatevers Ops grind gear pieces for, but not the armor mod that grants the set bonus if it isn't the armor shell itself.