Arrogance and the Current Event

[IanArgent]

But other events offer new areas, new bosses, new rewards. And when they first arrived, they were brand-new content.

 

This event is dead on arrival, so old its supposed "content" is. Even rewards are mostly pulled from CM.

 

Other events were also a lot smaller in scale, both in content and in time. And, frankly, I can't get too excited about a "new" way to present the same old mechanics. There's nothing really "new" in the RG tunnels, other than the art palette. The Gree event doesn't even have that. DvL doesn't have the Ops bosses those do, but TEC has way more "new" content than either of them. And there's plenty of "new-tome" stuff in replaying the base game, making different choices (my two event characters are both classes I've played before, but I'm choosing to play them differently).

[omaan]

I feel that I must start by paraphrasing Anakin:

 

I've disappointed you. I haven't been very appreciative of the game. I've been arrogant and I apologize. I've just been so frustrated with BW.

 

Ok, I can admit when I make a mistake. I've been thinking about this event, BW, and the things I've been posting lately. The funny thing is, I was wrong. The event. BW. All of it. It was all wrong.

 

Seriously, though: I think the event is a good thing and I'll tell you why. People are chasing after rewards that many people have saved credits over long periods of time, or spent CCs on, These people are getting a taste of things that were previously out of reach. This is a great incentive for them to complete sets, which will require either paying or playing more.

 

People are participating in an event and their actions directly affect the outcome and the reward that many people will receive. That's great! No more complaining about which on BW went with because it was decided by people just like you and me!

 

People get to experience more. Those who were drawn to the game by KotFE and instant-60 tokens now get to see the truly impressive part of the game. I hope they don't just spacebar through it. Unless you're a vet who has done the stories before. In that case, spacebar away and get your rewards that much faster!

 

And, finally, the best part of the event. People are doing things again. People are playing. Any world I go to, there are plenty of people online, asking questions, recruiting for guilds, and just generally having a good time. This is what it's all about.

 

I'm willing to sacrifice a new WZ or a FP for that last point. I want to see people out in the worlds. I've already done the thing where no one was on. It was cool, but the world is better with other people in it.

 

I hope BW takes advantage of this opportunity and expands endgame content for all these people running the event and for long-time vets who are ready for more. If we have to wait a few extra months because BW is trying to bring in more people... well, I think that's worth it.

 

 

As for me - this event made things worse because iam a player who isn't taking part in it. So now i face lower proc of wrz fights and operation runs on 65 lvl . BW wasn't thinking about the fact that those who are not participating in this event will suffer...

[TUXs]

Other events were also a lot smaller in scale, both in content and in time. And, frankly, I can't get too excited about a "new" way to present the same old mechanics.

Gee..who'd have guessed that a limited time event might be smaller in scale than the originally released 8 fully voiced and unique class stories which took up to 800 employees, cost $400 million and took nearly 5-years to create??

 

Seriously Ian lol...really?! Smaller in scale?! Come on lol...the base game that you're suddenly so amazed at, has been here since launch dude...go play it. It doesn't take a special "event" to do...it's the BASE GAME...

[BorisKarloffe]

 

 

"Slowly replacing long-term players with new players" is the life cycle of every game.

 

 

Not necessarily. That's what happens when a game goes stale. With single player games, this usually happens much faster than online/multiplayer games. With an MMO, that shouldn't be as much of a problem since people pay subs to get game support (content, upkeep, etc.).

 

In the case of SWTOR, the game being in a stale state after a revamp (4.0) has nothing to do with the long time players and everything to do with Bioware's lack of developing content with any kind of replayability value or new group content.

 

That's also a terrible message to send on the game's 5th anniversary: "Yay, thanks for 5 years guys..now go over there and keep waiting while we do this thing for new people."

[IanArgent]

Gee..who'd have guessed that a limited time event might be smaller in scale than the originally released 8 fully voiced and unique class stories which took up to 800 employees, cost $400 million and took nearly 5-years to create??

 

Seriously Ian lol...really?! Smaller in scale?! Come on lol...the base game that you're suddenly so amazed at, has been here since launch dude...go play it. It doesn't take a special "event" to do...it's the BASE GAME...

 

I am playing it. Technically, I am replaying it, because I've run both a trooper and an SI through the base game, and I'm about to do it again for my event characters. Those were, in fact, my most recent two classes to complete their class story (though the trooper was a long time back). The only thing the event did was sidetrack my existing characters that were in the middle of their stories (save for my agent, who I just finished Voss on and I'm going to roll right through Corellia skipping most of the non-class story, because I literally just did Imp Correllia last month on my completed SI).

 

Arguably each chapter of KotFE has as much content (save for the "Ops bosses" as any of RG Tunnels, Gree, or BH. And for Ops-boss-effort content, you have TEC (not directly comparable at the player level, I'll allow).

 

I don't expect a whole lot of "new" content for events. I'm highly disappointed there is no story wrapper, that there is only metagame content for this event. Gree and RK got their little 3 minute short film every time they come around, and BH has that initial encounter the first time you ran it. Where's the short film in front of the feature? Has there been an awakening in the force? Why are "new heroes" arising? And what's with the Dark Council's fashion sense? They did that pompous stronghold commish video, but can't be bothered to throw some huttese-speaking droid/apprentice outside the common start areas on Tython, Korriban, Hutta, and Ord Mantell? BW, I am dissapoint.

[gabigool]

I feel that I must start by paraphrasing Anakin:

 

I've disappointed you. I haven't been very appreciative of the game. I've been arrogant and I apologize. I've just been so frustrated with BW.

 

Ok, I can admit when I make a mistake. I've been thinking about this event, BW, and the things I've been posting lately. The funny thing is, I was wrong. The event. BW. All of it. It was all wrong.

 

Seriously, though: I think the event is a good thing and I'll tell you why. People are chasing after rewards that many people have saved credits over long periods of time, or spent CCs on, These people are getting a taste of things that were previously out of reach. This is a great incentive for them to complete sets, which will require either paying or playing more.

 

People are participating in an event and their actions directly affect the outcome and the reward that many people will receive. That's great! No more complaining about which on BW went with because it was decided by people just like you and me!

 

People get to experience more. Those who were drawn to the game by KotFE and instant-60 tokens now get to see the truly impressive part of the game. I hope they don't just spacebar through it. Unless you're a vet who has done the stories before. In that case, spacebar away and get your rewards that much faster!

 

And, finally, the best part of the event. People are doing things again. People are playing. Any world I go to, there are plenty of people online, asking questions, recruiting for guilds, and just generally having a good time. This is what it's all about.

 

I'm willing to sacrifice a new WZ or a FP for that last point. I want to see people out in the worlds. I've already done the thing where no one was on. It was cool, but the world is better with other people in it.

 

I hope BW takes advantage of this opportunity and expands endgame content for all these people running the event and for long-time vets who are ready for more. If we have to wait a few extra months because BW is trying to bring in more people... well, I think that's worth it.

 

 

Come back to us man. Please!

 

Listen, I can see how you fell for it. The Koolaid is strong. I get it. Look at all the people on Tython! Look at how fast PvP is popping with my level 19 in lolo! Holy cow I got GSF to pop!

 

Let me tell you a little bit about myself. I did some PvP this week - and I never, ever PvP. I queued for GSF for the first time in over a year. I ran a FP I've never done before (Maelstrom). I leveled up a Sage to 35. I ran KotFE past chapter IX for the first time, ever. All the way to XV.

 

This is awesome, yes? I'm "doing" stuff.

 

Now - I may be (probably am, actually) in the minority but let me tell you why I did this stuff.

 

I'm bored. Honestly dude I don't even know what the rewards are. Companions I think. I know there's one I'll get if I hit one of the thresholds (dunno which). I don't know when I'll get it either. And to be totally honest, I doubt I'd even use it. It'll probably stay in my mailbox, like Nico did (until this event FTW). I really can't think of anything I could possibly need another companion for. It's not like they are going to go back and add cool dialogue for when my new comp sees Tatooine for the first time.

 

Here's what I've done for the event so far. Created an AP Powertech. Spacebarred through DK to get a ship, then proceeded to do nothing but tacticals until level 55 when I did SoR then Ziost. Grabbed HK for 1M then killed the first 50 things I saw in Oricon. Did my Gree. Did KotFE 1-9 full spacebar. Realized I was still only Dark III so I grabbed Diplomacy and have been doing that in spare moments.

 

Had some armor so I threw it onto a new sniper. got him to 10, put some mod/enhs in it. implants + relics. All in about 250k on the GTN. Realized that Solo BT is the fastest leveling for me and ran that repeatedly until 50. About 5.5 hours. Repeat on a sorc. All in level 10 gear. Started my Sage.

 

Last two nights I brought the PT through KotFE X-XV. First time I've ever seen it. Didn't even realize there was a chapter still to come. Watched every scene. Annoyed I had to choose Dark at every opportunity. Felt bad for anyone who raised Scorpio's influence. I think Koth is gone for good. Cared less. High point was realizing the mobs from Visions in the Dark count as Rakghouls. Annoyed I still will have to infect people. Underwhelmed at the fact this was the content my MMO has stooped to. Candidly bro it blew. The actual gameplay has gotten ridiculous and the story itself is... just... I don't know but for what little there is it could have been a lot more fluid.

 

But hey, I'm "doing" stuff. Problem is, what am I doing?

 

I'm killing time.

 

OK, I get it. I'm a vet, right? this event isn't aimed at me. It's aimed at new players.

 

Are new players not supposed to want to do the whole thing? Isn't this list of crap to do awfully huge for new players? Is it really a good idea to "force" (<-- yeah it's the right word) new players to spend this amount of time experiencing everything this game has to offer instead of perhaps giving them a small taste of everything and allowing them the freedom to explore what they actually find enjoyable?

 

Why all HM FPs? Why not 2 or 3?

 

Why 15 PvP matches? Why not 5? Or combine PvP/GSF/Ops into one category. Let people do what they enjoy.

 

Why all 8 classes to 50? Why not, say, class stories for 4? Doesn't that make much, much more sense? Last I checked, The class stories were amazing. I can promise though that many players - many new players - aren't doing them. The tactical queues are full of them.

 

Why not, say, Planet Story Arc on two planets? Some were really, really cool. No new player doing this event is likely to know that, ever.

 

Bonus quests on two planets? Actually, I wonder if those even exist anymore. Certainly no one is going to be clicking on some random guy with a triangle over his head anymore.

 

Everyone seems to want to call this an event aimed at new players but I see it as crippling to a new player's enjoyment of the game. Without them even knowing it.

 

There is a ton of stuff in this game new players would love. And be able to spend months enjoying. Years maybe. Literally. Years.

 

But not at the pace this event is requiring. Please do not try to sell me on an event being aimed at new players that has as a requirement all HM FPs. That's just insane. Pretend you are, say a sniper. How long are you going to spend just in the queue? 20 hours?

 

I get tired of saying it. If the content is good people will play it. If the value proposition exists people will pay for it. A healthy game does not wall things behind activities players would ordinarily otherwise not participate in. A healthy game does not have to, because there is enough things players do want to do already.

 

Getting players interested in PvP is fine. But it does not solve the problem that if someone becomes highly invested in it they will realize PvP is not supported by the developers.

 

Getting players interested in GSF is fine. But it does not solve the problem that if someone becomes highly invested in it they will realize GSF is not supported by the developers.

 

Getting players interested in endgame PvE is fine. But it does not solve the problem that if someone becomes highly invested in it they will realize endgame PvE is not supported by the developers.

 

This event is aimed at solving something that has never, ever been a problem with this game. There are plenty of new players. And, last I checked, new players have the absolute best experience of anyone. There are a trillion things for new players to do. This game is a new player's dream.

 

The problem this game has - the entire reason it is on CM life support - is retention. Period.

 

What does this event do for vet players? Gives us a companion, but it seems like a raw deal since I got Nico for doing nothing, Treek for a million credits and HK for about 3 hours worth of work. Oh yeah and a mount. I think.

 

Bro I totally see how you fell for it but... you fell for it. Come back. The sky is blue in our world. We miss you.

[Frenesi]

Other events were also a lot smaller in scale, both in content and in time. And, frankly, I can't get too excited about a "new" way to present the same old mechanics. There's nothing really "new" in the RG tunnels, other than the art palette. The Gree event doesn't even have that. DvL doesn't have the Ops bosses those do, but TEC has way more "new" content than either of them. And there's plenty of "new-tome" stuff in replaying the base game, making different choices (my two event characters are both classes I've played before, but I'm choosing to play them differently).

 

It definetely beats old way to present the same old mechanics, What you are playing now has absolutely nothing to do with this supposed "event". You are replaying the base game. You say RG tunnels don't offer anything new but art palette? (and I guess you never went dive-bombing from VIP area on fleet while infected. It's one of the most fun things in game ) Well, this event doesn't even offer that. All it gives is bunch of achievements. Oh, and another useless companion.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Frenesi

[IanArgent]

I'm not going to quote that wall-o-text, but I am going to comment on it.

 

For goodness sake, why did you go through all that effort in a short period of time? The event is running at least until October. You don't need to do it all by August!

 

I didn't play at all over the holiday weekend; I didn't even queue for Forum PvP. I'm playing at my usual rate (a couple of hours every other night or so, a bit more on weekends) and usual play style (watching most cutscenes, hitting the spacebar occasionally; and I see myself hitting Eternal Level with time to spare, and a good chunk of legendary (Not gonna make 8 chars, probably won't make the WB or Ops ones, almost certainly won't make the HMFP one unless a miracle occurs, and may or may not get bored of cycling my crafting skills). I probably won't make round 10 TEC or the plague-spreader, but I'll try.

 

I'm not going to say you don't have to make a small effort, but if you've got everything you need for Eternal Level already, but for the last chapter of KotFE, man, you are working harder than you need to. Why not play through one of your favorite class stories again, "re-reading/re-watching" it? There's a deadline, but there's no extra rewards for finishing early.

[IanArgent]

It definetely beats old way to present the same old mechanics, What you are playing now has absolutely nothing to do with this supposed "event". You are replaying the base game. You say RG tunnels don't offer anything new but art palette? (and I guess you never went dive-bombing from VIP area on fleet while infected. It's one of the most fun things in game ) Well, this event doesn't even offer that. All it gives is bunch of achievements. Oh, and another useless companion.

 

You missed my mini-rant about the complete lack of story for this event? My point was that "event" doesn't mean "all-new, all-different" content; it implies "we threw a small story wrapper around a bunch of mobs, put down a smallish event zone, and ran up a list of achievements and a vendor to buy shinies from." This is like getting a "present," but the "present" is an Amazon box, inside of which is a boxed set of an entire TV show's run. I liked the TV show, I'll rewatch it, but I'm a little disappointed the giver didn't bother gift-wrapping it, and I know they used a coupon to get it for free.

[TUXs]

Come back to us man. Please!

 

Listen, I can see how you fell for it. The Koolaid is strong. I get it. Look at all the people on Tython! Look at how fast PvP is popping with my level 19 in lolo! Holy cow I got GSF to pop!

 

Let me tell you a little bit about myself. I did some PvP this week - and I never, ever PvP. I queued for GSF for the first time in over a year. I ran a FP I've never done before (Maelstrom). I leveled up a Sage to 35. I ran KotFE past chapter IX for the first time, ever. All the way to XV.

 

This is awesome, yes? I'm "doing" stuff.

 

Now - I may be (probably am, actually) in the minority but let me tell you why I did this stuff.

 

I'm bored. Honestly dude I don't even know what the rewards are. Companions I think. I know there's one I'll get if I hit one of the thresholds (dunno which). I don't know when I'll get it either. And to be totally honest, I doubt I'd even use it. It'll probably stay in my mailbox, like Nico did (until this event FTW). I really can't think of anything I could possibly need another companion for. It's not like they are going to go back and add cool dialogue for when my new comp sees Tatooine for the first time.

 

Here's what I've done for the event so far. Created an AP Powertech. Spacebarred through DK to get a ship, then proceeded to do nothing but tacticals until level 55 when I did SoR then Ziost. Grabbed HK for 1M then killed the first 50 things I saw in Oricon. Did my Gree. Did KotFE 1-9 full spacebar. Realized I was still only Dark III so I grabbed Diplomacy and have been doing that in spare moments.

 

Had some armor so I threw it onto a new sniper. got him to 10, put some mod/enhs in it. implants + relics. All in about 250k on the GTN. Realized that Solo BT is the fastest leveling for me and ran that repeatedly until 50. About 5.5 hours. Repeat on a sorc. All in level 10 gear. Started my Sage.

 

Last two nights I brought the PT through KotFE X-XV. First time I've ever seen it. Didn't even realize there was a chapter still to come. Watched every scene. Annoyed I had to choose Dark at every opportunity. Felt bad for anyone who raised Scorpio's influence. I think Koth is gone for good. Cared less. High point was realizing the mobs from Visions in the Dark count as Rakghouls. Annoyed I still will have to infect people. Underwhelmed at the fact this was the content my MMO has stooped to. Candidly bro it blew. The actual gameplay has gotten ridiculous and the story itself is... just... I don't know but for what little there is it could have been a lot more fluid.

 

But hey, I'm "doing" stuff. Problem is, what am I doing?

 

I'm killing time.

 

OK, I get it. I'm a vet, right? this event isn't aimed at me. It's aimed at new players.

 

Are new players not supposed to want to do the whole thing? Isn't this list of crap to do awfully huge for new players? Is it really a good idea to "force" (<-- yeah it's the right word) new players to spend this amount of time experiencing everything this game has to offer instead of perhaps giving them a small taste of everything and allowing them the freedom to explore what they actually find enjoyable?

 

Why all HM FPs? Why not 2 or 3?

 

Why 15 PvP matches? Why not 5? Or combine PvP/GSF/Ops into one category. Let people do what they enjoy.

 

Why all 8 classes to 50? Why not, say, class stories for 4? Doesn't that make much, much more sense? Last I checked, The class stories were amazing. I can promise though that many players - many new players - aren't doing them. The tactical queues are full of them.

 

Why not, say, Planet Story Arc on two planets? Some were really, really cool. No new player doing this event is likely to know that, ever.

 

Bonus quests on two planets? Actually, I wonder if those even exist anymore. Certainly no one is going to be clicking on some random guy with a triangle over his head anymore.

 

Everyone seems to want to call this an event aimed at new players but I see it as crippling to a new player's enjoyment of the game. Without them even knowing it.

 

There is a ton of stuff in this game new players would love. And be able to spend months enjoying. Years maybe. Literally. Years.

 

But not at the pace this event is requiring. Please do not try to sell me on an event being aimed at new players that has as a requirement all HM FPs. That's just insane. Pretend you are, say a sniper. How long are you going to spend just in the queue? 20 hours?

 

I get tired of saying it. If the content is good people will play it. If the value proposition exists people will pay for it. A healthy game does not wall things behind activities players would ordinarily otherwise not participate in. A healthy game does not have to, because there is enough things players do want to do already.

 

Getting players interested in PvP is fine. But it does not solve the problem that if someone becomes highly invested in it they will realize PvP is not supported by the developers.

 

Getting players interested in GSF is fine. But it does not solve the problem that if someone becomes highly invested in it they will realize GSF is not supported by the developers.

 

Getting players interested in endgame PvE is fine. But it does not solve the problem that if someone becomes highly invested in it they will realize endgame PvE is not supported by the developers.

 

This event is aimed at solving something that has never, ever been a problem with this game. There are plenty of new players. And, last I checked, new players have the absolute best experience of anyone. There are a trillion things for new players to do. This game is a new player's dream.

 

The problem this game has - the entire reason it is on CM life support - is retention. Period.

 

What does this event do for vet players? Gives us a companion, but it seems like a raw deal since I got Nico for doing nothing, Treek for a million credits and HK for about 3 hours worth of work. Oh yeah and a mount. I think.

 

Bro I totally see how you fell for it but... you fell for it. Come back. The sky is blue in our world. We miss you.

You state things so perfectly...I feel like I can just follow you from now on and just "qfe" everything you say. Great post!!!!!!

[gabigool]

I'm not going to quote that wall-o-text, but I am going to comment on it.

 

For goodness sake, why did you go through all that effort in a short period of time? The event is running at least until October. You don't need to do it all by August!

 

I didn't play at all over the holiday weekend; I didn't even queue for Forum PvP. I'm playing at my usual rate (a couple of hours every other night or so, a bit more on weekends) and usual play style (watching most cutscenes, hitting the spacebar occasionally; and I see myself hitting Eternal Level with time to spare, and a good chunk of legendary (Not gonna make 8 chars, probably won't make the WB or Ops ones, almost certainly won't make the HMFP one unless a miracle occurs, and may or may not get bored of cycling my crafting skills). I probably won't make round 10 TEC or the plague-spreader, but I'll try.

 

I'm not going to say you don't have to make a small effort, but if you've got everything you need for Eternal Level already, but for the last chapter of KotFE, man, you are working harder than you need to. Why not play through one of your favorite class stories again, "re-reading/re-watching" it? There's a deadline, but there's no extra rewards for finishing early.

 

Dude I'm not hurrying, and you're totally missing the point. By like a parsec.

[Savej]

For those saying "it's not new content"... we're nearing the end of a long stream of steady and very new content - the most content we've gotten since the game started. Our choices were "get nothing more and like it", "get 12x again" which was last summer's "event" or... get this. Another Gree-type event would be over in a week or two - nice but not 2 weeks after it's over and not realistic considering the content output lately (just because you may not like the content focus does not mean it isn't real content or that the work required has been trivial). And let's not forget that almost all content in games like these is meant to be repeated. Dlyies, wklies, raids, fps, wzs, rep grinds - all involve repetition of content. There's plenty of time to do this event without racing, btw, apart from the raids, wbs and hms reqs which will require organizing groups and that could be a problem for some. Edited July 8, 2016 by Savej

[IanArgent]

Dude I'm not hurrying, and you're totally missing the point. By like a parsec.

 

It's possible I did miss your point in the second half after reading that you ripped through 3-4 characters to 50+ in, what, a week? (Looks like 2 to 65, one to 50, and one started?) That startled me, because it's not necessary to do; it's a lot more work and by your own admission, you're not having fun.

 

I kind of agree that the legendary tier requirements are a tad nuts. I have my doubts about requiring all SMFP on the Champion level, myself - I would have swapped TEC 5 and all SMFP, and probably only required some of the FP for Eternal, but I'm a soft touch as a GM, ask any of my players.

 

Not everyone is going to make Legendary Tier. I honestly would have liked to have seen that whole tier have been "hidden achievements." Not because they would have remained "hidden," they would have been 'mined. But because it would have kept the "pressure" off the casuals. Some of the specific tasks are not so good. I would have liked to have seen some of the non-character-advancement-specific achievements be completable by pre-existing characters. Heck, I might even be convinced that having the "Legendary" goldbug would be good for "all characters at level 50," and having Dark V and Light V in legacy be good for that. The WB and Ops would need to be done during event time, but unless there's a technical reason they couldn't check to see if it was done in the time period, why not allow it on existing chars? Same with the event-related achievements and the Oricon one; the PvP/GSF ones, the datacron ones, and Ruthless Efficiency. (The Big Earner already allows for pre-existing characters to participate, and thus, so does Big Spender, if only by proxy).

 

I look at it this way, I'm getting rewarded for re-playing the game in a certain way. The vast majority of the requirements, I would have met (more or less) anyway this summer; but by doing it on new characters, I get packs. That's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, or even a blunt one. I feel a bit sad about not running my primary SI through KotFE or doing some of the other things I was going to do on pre-existing characters; but I'll get around to doing that soon enough. I can sort of get the "opportunity cost" argument, if you're not interested in playing a bit of everything the game has, you lose out on the packs and other stuff, but it's the same argument that I'm "losing out" on the stuff the event vendors have if I don't participate in whatever event is up for the week, because I'd rather do something else in-game.

[IanArgent]

For those saying "it's not new content"... we're nearing the end of a long stream of steady and very new content - the most content we've gotten since the game started. Our choices were "get nothing more and like it", "get 12x again" which was last summer's "event" or... get this. Another Gree-type event would be over in a week or two - nice but not 2 weeks after it's over and not realistic considering the content output lately (just because you may not like the content focus does not mean it isn't real content or that the work required has been trivial). And let's not forget that almost all content in games like these is meant to be repeated. Dlyies, wklies, raids, fps, wzs, rep grinds - all involve repetition of content. There's plenty of time to do this event without racing, btw, apart from the raids, wbs and hms reqs which will require organizing groups and that could be a problem for some.

 

There's a certain amount of "no new Ops=No new content" implicit in some comments. Story PvE is what you do to get to Endgame OPs and Raids, after all (/sarcasm). (Not that I'm saying the lack of Ops-type content isn't a problem, but No New Ops != No New Content)

 

I'm going to pick on Gabigool here

 

Last two nights I brought the PT through KotFE X-XV. First time I've ever seen it.

There's your new content, GB. Something you'd never seen before, and the event brought it to you.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Getting players interested in GSF is fine. But it does not solve the problem that if someone becomes highly invested in it they will realize GSF is not supported by the developers.

 

GSF has had not a single bugfix in 2 1/2 years. That's right raiders, we're even more neglected than you are (granted I'm one of you ).

 

It will hopefully get a few people interested, but as we have been complaining elsewhere, the self-destructing "get it over with" is already a serious problem with this event, and is ruining GSF queue. Nobody in the GSF community denies the gamemode is brutal for new players, but this needs to be addressed. *cough* shameless pug for another thread *cough*

 

Overall, that was a very well written and well said post, and exactly how I feel in many ways.

 

~ Eudoxia

[AlienEyeTX]

There's a certain amount of "no new Ops=No new content" implicit in some comments. Story PvE is what you do to get to Endgame OPs and Raids, after all (/sarcasm). (Not that I'm saying the lack of Ops-type content isn't a problem, but No New Ops != No New Content)

 

I'm going to pick on Gabigool here

 

 

There's your new content, GB. Something you'd never seen before, and the event brought it to you.

 

Exactly. Hopefully it was fun and will lead to a desire for more.

[AngFour]

Here's what I don't get about the event:

 

If this is meant for us to "redo" everything we've already done, why isn't Makeb on that list? Like, at all, other than the Ops boss.

 

Why is Ziost on the Legendary tier? If we're doing things in order, Ziost comes before KotFE, after SoR. Why was it tagged on as (what seems like) an afterthought? Why are two tiers filled with "Do KotFE 1-9" "Now do KotFE 1-16, your previous 1-9 still counts." You'd think It would be "Blah blah blah tier: Do Makeb (Imp or Pub), do SoR, do Ziost. Here's your crappy loot crate." "Now have 2 65 characters (Imp and Pub) and do KotFE 1-16."

 

Makeb is going to be passed over completely (with good reason, I think. Makeb sucks and I've been skipping it since 12XP last summer because I was high enough level to just start SoR). But my point remains that if this is to "re-explore the whole game" you'd think an entire friggin' expansion would have some shout out (even if said expansion has almost NO impact on the state of the galactic story other than a casual, one sentence mention by Lana in KotFE).

 

I know this isn't the area to mention this, but the organization of the requirements just rubs me the wrong way.

Edited July 8, 2016 by AngFour

[rklontz]

 

I'm going to pick on Gabigool here

 

 

There's your new content, GB. Something you'd never seen before, and the event brought it to you.

 

Unless he subscribed specifically for the event and that is the absolute only reason he even created a character then no the event didn't bring it to him.

[DarthWoad]

 

People are participating in an event and their actions directly affect the outcome and the reward that many people will receive. That's great! No more complaining about which on BW went with because it was decided by people just like you and me!

 

"choices matter". Right, you think adding up all of the light points and dark points and for bioware to activate a companion is somehow revolutionary?

 

People get to experience more. Those who were drawn to the game by KotFE and instant-60 tokens now get to see the truly impressive part of the game.

 

People who were drawn into the game by KotFE and got instant 60 had the option to experience the full game anyway. There is no "more". Nothing new has been added. It's the exact same game before the event started.

 

 

I hope they don't just spacebar through it. Unless you're a vet who has done the stories before. In that case, spacebar away and get your rewards that much faster!

 

Most of the vets will spacebar through this utter grindfest anyway. And will probably never visit other planets. Flashpoints give the best levelling. So much for Bioware wanting us to experience the game all over again.

 

And, finally, the best part of the event. People are doing things again. People are playing. Any world I go to, there are plenty of people online, asking questions, recruiting for guilds, and just generally having a good time. This is what it's all about.

 

They're doing it because they have to. Not because they want to. Big difference. People want the rewards, so they're gonna have to do all the requirements, even though it may be incredibly boring for vets.

 

I'm willing to sacrifice a new WZ or a FP for that last point. I want to see people out in the worlds. I've already done the thing where no one was on. It was cool, but the world is better with other people in it.

 

So you only care about the number next to the planet name? People just wanna get this event done with.

 

I hope BW takes advantage of this opportunity and expands endgame content for all these people running the event and for long-time vets who are ready for more. If we have to wait a few extra months because BW is trying to bring in more people... well, I think that's worth it.

 

It's worth it being in utter darkness about new end game content and group content? Okay then.

[CrazyCT]

"choices matter". Right, you think adding up all of the light points and dark points and for bioware to activate a companion is somehow revolutionary?......./snip

 

Remind me again why you still sub for this game?

Edited July 8, 2016 by CrazyCT

[Transcendent]

Come back to us man. Please!

 

Listen, I can see how you fell for it. The Koolaid is strong. I get it. Look at all the people on Tython! Look at how fast PvP is popping with my level 19 in lolo! Holy cow I got GSF to pop!

 

Let me tell you a little bit about myself. I did some PvP this week - and I never, ever PvP. I queued for GSF for the first time in over a year. I ran a FP I've never done before (Maelstrom). I leveled up a Sage to 35. I ran KotFE past chapter IX for the first time, ever. All the way to XV.

 

This is awesome, yes? I'm "doing" stuff.

 

Now - I may be (probably am, actually) in the minority but let me tell you why I did this stuff.

 

I'm bored. Honestly dude I don't even know what the rewards are. Companions I think. I know there's one I'll get if I hit one of the thresholds (dunno which). I don't know when I'll get it either. And to be totally honest, I doubt I'd even use it. It'll probably stay in my mailbox, like Nico did (until this event FTW). I really can't think of anything I could possibly need another companion for. It's not like they are going to go back and add cool dialogue for when my new comp sees Tatooine for the first time.

 

Here's what I've done for the event so far. Created an AP Powertech. Spacebarred through DK to get a ship, then proceeded to do nothing but tacticals until level 55 when I did SoR then Ziost. Grabbed HK for 1M then killed the first 50 things I saw in Oricon. Did my Gree. Did KotFE 1-9 full spacebar. Realized I was still only Dark III so I grabbed Diplomacy and have been doing that in spare moments.

 

Had some armor so I threw it onto a new sniper. got him to 10, put some mod/enhs in it. implants + relics. All in about 250k on the GTN. Realized that Solo BT is the fastest leveling for me and ran that repeatedly until 50. About 5.5 hours. Repeat on a sorc. All in level 10 gear. Started my Sage.

 

Last two nights I brought the PT through KotFE X-XV. First time I've ever seen it. Didn't even realize there was a chapter still to come. Watched every scene. Annoyed I had to choose Dark at every opportunity. Felt bad for anyone who raised Scorpio's influence. I think Koth is gone for good. Cared less. High point was realizing the mobs from Visions in the Dark count as Rakghouls. Annoyed I still will have to infect people. Underwhelmed at the fact this was the content my MMO has stooped to. Candidly bro it blew. The actual gameplay has gotten ridiculous and the story itself is... just... I don't know but for what little there is it could have been a lot more fluid.

 

But hey, I'm "doing" stuff. Problem is, what am I doing?

 

I'm killing time.

 

OK, I get it. I'm a vet, right? this event isn't aimed at me. It's aimed at new players.

 

Are new players not supposed to want to do the whole thing? Isn't this list of crap to do awfully huge for new players? Is it really a good idea to "force" (<-- yeah it's the right word) new players to spend this amount of time experiencing everything this game has to offer instead of perhaps giving them a small taste of everything and allowing them the freedom to explore what they actually find enjoyable?

 

Why all HM FPs? Why not 2 or 3?

 

Why 15 PvP matches? Why not 5? Or combine PvP/GSF/Ops into one category. Let people do what they enjoy.

 

Why all 8 classes to 50? Why not, say, class stories for 4? Doesn't that make much, much more sense? Last I checked, The class stories were amazing. I can promise though that many players - many new players - aren't doing them. The tactical queues are full of them.

 

Why not, say, Planet Story Arc on two planets? Some were really, really cool. No new player doing this event is likely to know that, ever.

 

Bonus quests on two planets? Actually, I wonder if those even exist anymore. Certainly no one is going to be clicking on some random guy with a triangle over his head anymore.

 

Everyone seems to want to call this an event aimed at new players but I see it as crippling to a new player's enjoyment of the game. Without them even knowing it.

 

There is a ton of stuff in this game new players would love. And be able to spend months enjoying. Years maybe. Literally. Years.

 

But not at the pace this event is requiring. Please do not try to sell me on an event being aimed at new players that has as a requirement all HM FPs. That's just insane. Pretend you are, say a sniper. How long are you going to spend just in the queue? 20 hours?

 

I get tired of saying it. If the content is good people will play it. If the value proposition exists people will pay for it. A healthy game does not wall things behind activities players would ordinarily otherwise not participate in. A healthy game does not have to, because there is enough things players do want to do already.

 

Getting players interested in PvP is fine. But it does not solve the problem that if someone becomes highly invested in it they will realize PvP is not supported by the developers.

 

Getting players interested in GSF is fine. But it does not solve the problem that if someone becomes highly invested in it they will realize GSF is not supported by the developers.

 

Getting players interested in endgame PvE is fine. But it does not solve the problem that if someone becomes highly invested in it they will realize endgame PvE is not supported by the developers.

 

This event is aimed at solving something that has never, ever been a problem with this game. There are plenty of new players. And, last I checked, new players have the absolute best experience of anyone. There are a trillion things for new players to do. This game is a new player's dream.

 

The problem this game has - the entire reason it is on CM life support - is retention. Period.

 

What does this event do for vet players? Gives us a companion, but it seems like a raw deal since I got Nico for doing nothing, Treek for a million credits and HK for about 3 hours worth of work. Oh yeah and a mount. I think.

 

Bro I totally see how you fell for it but... you fell for it. Come back. The sky is blue in our world. We miss you.

 

Well written post right here.

 

Also

High point was realizing the mobs from Visions in the Dark count as Rakghouls

Now I've got to do more chapters haven't I? I grudgingly trudged through (space barred) 1-9 for one of the tiers. Wasn't really intending to do the others quite yet.

 

On the plus side, and one I feel you've over-looked. OCD players, that right there is the retention mechanism in terms of the achievement system that BioWare did get right. So there is a positive.

[gabigool]

It's possible I did miss your point in the second half after reading that you ripped through 3-4 characters to 50+ in, what, a week? (Looks like 2 to 65, one to 50, and one started?) That startled me, because it's not necessary to do; it's a lot more work and by your own admission, you're not having fun.

 

Err- so my points are less worth thinking about because I am actually participating in the event?

 

I look at it this way, I'm getting rewarded for re-playing the game in a certain way. The vast majority of the requirements, I would have met (more or less) anyway this summer; but by doing it on new characters, I get packs. That's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, or even a blunt one.

 

I certainly would not have leveled up a 6th powertech. Or a 4th Merc. Or run Ziost, again. Or purchased another HK. Or done more Gree. Or Rakghouls. I would not have PvP'ed. Or GSF'ed. It is unlikely I would have leveled another Republic character to 65. I would not have done a light/dark diplomacy grind.

 

Because I have been playing this game since 2012.

 

You are implying people are doing this for the rewards. I think you are vastly underestimating the number of people who are doing it because there is literally nothing else to do.

 

I can promise you, that if the devs created an "event" that involved nothing but doing laps around the fleet people would do it. A lot of people. Do not mistake that behavior pattern for a confirmation that it is in any way a reasonable substitute for actual investment in repeatable content as a player retention mechanism.

 

 

There's a certain amount of "no new Ops=No new content" implicit in some comments. Story PvE is what you do to get to Endgame OPs and Raids, after all (/sarcasm). (Not that I'm saying the lack of Ops-type content isn't a problem, but No New Ops != No New Content)

 

I'm going to pick on Gabigool here

 

 

There's your new content, GB. Something you'd never seen before, and the event brought it to you.

 

Can I go back and do it again? Can I do it with my friends? Can I try different ways? With different difficulty?

 

I would have done it eventually. Probably. But I can say with certainty barring another of these events I will never do it again. Call it whatever you want but it is not MMO content. It is episodic single-player content.

 

I'm fine with it's inclusion but not as the sole content delivery type for a game I hope is able to sustain itself.

 

I believe it is a bad business decision to ignore Operations. I believe it is a bad business decision to ignore PvP and GSF. I believe it is a bad decision - once you've done the above - to create an "event" that dangles a carrot that is specifically designed to minimize the time spent by new players in 1-50 content.

 

I believe there is no rationale for putting HM FPs/Ops/PvP/GSF into an event aimed at new players.

 

I believe that if this event is aimed at veterans it's a joke.

 

And I most certainly believe the fact that players are "doing" it is meaningless in the context of an overall assessment of its design.

 

/shrug.

[DarthWoad]

Remind me again why you still sub for this game?

 

Oh, you're giving me that argument are you?

 

Look, Crazy. If you don't like the game, then don't play it? Simple. No ones forcing you to play it. No ones putting a gun to your head are they?

Edited July 8, 2016 by DarthWoad

[AngFour]

On the plus side, and one I feel you've over-looked. OCD players, that right there is the retention mechanism in terms of the achievement system that BioWare did get right. So there is a positive.

 

Nailed it. That's why I'm doing it. Never raided, have only done PUG FPs a handful of times, and have only PvPd on my main (Agent) so she could get Pierce.

 

Now I feel compelled to give all of that an honest try. I might not finish the Legendary tier, but I will try because it's a checklist and I LOVE completing checklists.

[CrazyCT]

Oh, you're giving me that argument are you?

 

Look, Crazy. If you don't like the game, then don't play it? Simple.

 

Whut? I simply asked you what makes you continue to sub the game. It's not a difficult question (I thought)