Cartel Pack Changes with the GEMINI Pack

[TUXs]

You're correct and we all read over that quite easily. So really, it's just more expensive than the previous one. Got it.

Yeah, but now you get BRONZE jun...errr...items again...so...rejoice?!

[ikinai]

TDLR; So in other words, it's still a rip-off.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Indubitably.

[Mevan]

Just admit that you're a bunch a greedy bastards. Would save you a whole load of time typing out BS.

[TUXs]

TDLR; So in other words, it's still a rip-off.

 

~ Eudoxia

Well, yeah...but Eric justified it by telling us it was better...so...um...who are we to believe? A buncha forum warriors whom we don't even know, or Bioware, who has earned our trust and admiration over the years with their honesty and integrity?

[Tsillah]

Yeah, but now you get BRONZE jun...errr...items again...so...rejoice?!

 

I wouldn't care if they were bronze...but there just really isn't anything in here I would really want. Even the decorations that I usually like to pick up are meh.

 

So it really is overpriced junk for me in this case.

 

Having thought about it some more, I do realise also that the drops you might get from the chance cubes can be much more valuable than the new bronze items, so really it's a value decrease at a higher price. The only positive is getting more items from the new stuff...of course that doesn't help me if the new stuff is mediocre.

[PatT]

Yet you'll notice they didn't return the unlock prices back to match. Probably shouldn't expect to see them do it in the future, either. They know everyone will pay 200-300 cc each to unlock low level crap now, and EAware don't give up free money.

 

you mean 400 cc to unlock. Including the cost of unlocking the Eradicator Mask 400cc to unlock and 480 to buy outright. Unreal.

 

And no. I won't pay it. I will wait for a sale and my chars will wear something else.

[Bruticis]

Awwwww someone with money hurt your eFeelings. Sorry bro.

 

I get what you were going for here but you failed badly in the execution.

[Lowarro]

Reading comprehension, folks - they said: "We added 6 more Packs into each Hypercrate with KOTFE."

 

The Alliance Packs, which started with KOTFE, have 30 Packs in each Hypercrate, while all the Shipments pre-KOTFE had 24 per Hypercrate. That is the increase he was talking about; he never said the GEMINI Hypercrates have 6 more Packs than the other KOTFE ones.

This is true, however given the way it is worded and the context in a post defending a price hike with the GEMINI pack it seems to be intentionally misleading. As in "sure the price went up ~20% but you get 6 more packs per hypercrate!"

[RougeSentinel]

My biggest issue I have is i like to only spend an additional $40 a month on cartel coins so i can buy 1 hypercrate now i'm going to have to wait every 2 months to buy a hypercrate. I'd rather have 24 packs a hypercrate so it's affordable. If you actually listened to the community it's not that we wanted more bronze items we just didn't want bronze items to drop 90% of the time. WE WANT CARTEL CERTIFICATES. WE WANT YOU TO STOP SCREWING UP THE PACK MARKET ON THE GAME.

[Lowarro]

I believe the Shadow Packs were the first to drop to the 5400 price-point, for years before that the various Hypercrates had all been more than the Gemini ones are now (with only 24 Packs per Hypercrate as he mentioned):

 

Cartel Pack Hypercrates: 7,344 CCs

• Crime Lord Packs
  
• Blockade Runner Packs
  
• Skip Tracer Packs
  
• Space Pirate Packs
  

Contraband Pack Hypercrates: 6,912 CCs

• Regulator Contraband Packs
  
• Vice Commandant’s Contraband Packs
  
• Archon’s Contraband Packs
  
• Supreme Mogul’s Contraband Packs
  

Bounty Pack Hypercrates: 6,912 CCs

• Freelancer’s Bounty Packs
  
• Pursuer’s Bounty Packs
  
• Tracker’s Bounty Packs
  
• Opportunist’s Bounty Packs
  

Starfighter Pack Hypercrates: 6,912 CCs

• Dogfighter’s Starfighter Packs
  
• Galactic Ace’s Starfighter Packs
  
• Space Jockey’s Starfighter Packs
  
• Hotshot’s Starfighter Packs
  

Nightlife Pack Hypercrates: 6,912 CCs

• Star Cluster’s Nightlife Packs
  
• Club Vertica Nightlife Packs
  

Stronghold Pack Hypercrates: 6,480 CCs

• Gatekeeper Stronghold Packs
  
• Constable’s Stronghold Packs
  
• Seneschal’s Stronghold Packs
  
• Architect’s Stronghold Packs
  

 

Factor in a 25% increase to scale the price up to 30 packs and those first 22 different Hypercrates all would have been north of 8,000 CCs for an equivalent amount (and for the original Cartel Packs Shipment... well).

 

To your point on the previous packs, first those packs actually had an additional item or 2 in them (2 pack items, a comp gift, jawa junk, plus a boost item (XP) and depending on the pack a reputation item or cartel certificate). So factoring in the change in number of packs and not the change in content of those packs creates a skewed comparison.

 

Most of the anger I felt on this is due to the fact we had been in such a good place with the packs before. The 5400 or $40 for a hypercrate was a good price, and you could feel like you got your moneys worth. The chance cubes, while unpopular with people including myself, who have been buying packs for a long time and had most of what we wanted from past packs, at least gave decent in game resale value and an extra chance for a rare item, either from the current or any previous pack.

 

There were some problems, the cubes taking up half the slots usually reserved for new items frustrated those with fuller collection who were buying the packs for the new items. The silver items were viewed as items that would have been bronze in any of the earlier packs and thus ended up with collection unlocks that were viewed as overpriced.

 

The anger isn't that we are upset at having to pay 6300 for a hypercrate, it's having to pay 6300 for what for the last 4-5 packs over the last 4-5 months we have been paying 5400 for. What put it over the top for me is it isn't even paying 900 more and getting the same thing, but paying 900 more and getting less. The amounts of jawa junk in the packs has been reduced. This combined with the reduction in chance cubes means the in game value that you are getting is much less than previous packs.

 

The final insult is in response to the well deserved backlash on the forums is the ******** that there is more in the packs now so they have to cost more and saying its less per pack now than it was half a year ago or more.

 

I've been buying 3-5 hypercrates a month. Despite the price hike I bought 1 yesterday and was planning on a second. Seeing the reduction of value it the one I bought stopped me from buying the second, and this post makes me doubt I will be buying any more cartel coins in the foreseeable future.

[LordKitana]

Hey folks,

 

Yesterday, we made a few changes to how Cartel Packs work with the release of the GEMINI pack. I want to share the changes that were made to the pack.

 

Grand Chance Cubes/Bronze Items

The primary feedback we have heard from players over the past few months is that you would prefer to receive Bronze items rather than Chance Cubes. For that reason, one of the first things you will notice is that we have re-introduced Bronze items back into the Cartel Pack. Although you can get amazing items out of the cubes, we took your feedback and made the following changes:

• We have introduced multiple Bronze items into the GEMINI Pack.
  
• To allow for the addition above, the drop rate of Grand Chance Cubes has been greatly reduced.
  

 

Pack Pricing Changes

You will notice that with the GEMINI Pack, the price has moved back to 300 Cartel Coins. As with any price change we want you to understand why it changed. The short explanation is that we have item slots to the packs, packs contained fewer slots with the launch of KotFE and therefore the pricing was lowered. Now that we have added items and value to the pack in the form of additional slots, we adjusted the price to match. Here is a more detailed breakdown.

 

Pre-KotFE Packs (2 pack items) – 300 Cartel Coins discounted to 250 Cartel Coins for launch

• Pack item
  
• Pack item
  
• Additional items including companion gifts, etc.
  

 

KotFE Launch Packs (1 pack item) – 200 Cartel Coins

• Pack Item
  
• Companion Gift
  

 

GEMINI Pack (2 pack items) – 300 Cartel Coins discounted to 250 Cartel Coins for launch

• Pack Item
  
• Pack Item
  
• Additional items including companion gifts, etc.
  

 

You may also notice that Hypercrates are more expensive than before. We added 6 more packs into each Hypercrate with KotFE and so the price is reflective of that change. The price per pack in a Hypercrate is actually lower than the pre-KotFE numbers. Thank you for your understanding and support! As always, the team will continue to look to your feedback regarding packs and their content.

 

-eric

 

can we just go back to how the packs were they were FINE!!! when i say that i mean like the crime lords packs at least you got way more stuff then just a freakn pet , armor and a chance cube like wth is that

[Transcendent]

Although you can get amazing items out of the cubes

 

I hate to say this, but not with the drop percentages that you have on your end of things. Out of every chance cube, I didn't get a single, even semi decent, item. Hence I pretty much stopped purchasing packs.

 

The drop rates for anything good has changed somewhat since the inception of the Cartel Packs, and I'll be honest, they're less fun to open than they were previously. Perhaps that has something to do with no reputation attached to the new packs, and the serious lack of Cartel Certificates or new vendors or exclusive titles etc etc.

 

Whichever way BioWare and the Cartel Market team decide to go with, unless something drastically changes on your end of things and you improve perception of the value of the propostition, you'll not regain me as a purchaser of hypercrates. Maybe the rare single pack, just to remind myself why I don't buy them anymore.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Transcendent

[VictoryWeaver]

And I got tons of awesome stuff out of chance cubes.

[Osgorion]

Hey folks,

 

Yesterday, we made a few changes to how Cartel Packs work with the release of the GEMINI pack. I want to share the changes that were made to the pack.

 

 

Grand Chance Cubes/Bronze Items

The primary feedback we have heard from players over the past few months is that you would prefer to receive Bronze items rather than Chance Cubes. For that reason, one of the first things you will notice is that we have re-introduced Bronze items back into the Cartel Pack. Although you can get amazing items out of the cubes, we took your feedback and made the following changes:

• We have introduced multiple Bronze items into the GEMINI Pack.
  
• To allow for the addition above, the drop rate of Grand Chance Cubes has been greatly reduced.
  

 

Pack Pricing Changes

You will notice that with the GEMINI Pack, the price has moved back to 300 Cartel Coins. As with any price change we want you to understand why it changed. The short explanation is that we have item slots to the packs, packs contained fewer slots with the launch of KotFE and therefore the pricing was lowered. Now that we have added items and value to the pack in the form of additional slots, we adjusted the price to match. Here is a more detailed breakdown.

 

Pre-KotFE Packs (2 pack items) – 300 Cartel Coins discounted to 250 Cartel Coins for launch

• Pack item
  
• Pack item
  
• Additional items including companion gifts, etc.
  

 

KotFE Launch Packs (1 pack item) – 200 Cartel Coins

• Pack Item
  
• Companion Gift
  

 

GEMINI Pack (2 pack items) – 300 Cartel Coins discounted to 250 Cartel Coins for launch

• Pack Item
  
• Pack Item
  
• Additional items including companion gifts, etc.
  

 

 

You may also notice that Hypercrates are more expensive than before. We added 6 more packs into each Hypercrate with KotFE and so the price is reflective of that change. The price per pack in a Hypercrate is actually lower than the pre-KotFE numbers. Thank you for your understanding and support! As always, the team will continue to look to your feedback regarding packs and their content.

 

-eric

 

Oh, this explanation is exactly what we needed, everything is solved and well now that you've posted this wonderfully organised and written piece of Total Bullocks.

I'm sure it must be really hard continuously generating mass copy/pasted cosmetic crap. The sheer amount of manual and mental labour involved on top of having to justify yourself for it each time must be incredibly exhausting and resource consuming! Not to mention the handcrafted carefelully detailed recolors and renames of items which are the work of TRUE Artisans!

You should concider raising the price even further, lest you risk not making profits!

Honestly Eric.... You could sell each pack for a Dollar and still turn tons of profit if not more..... Your justifications are weak, your excuses are weak, and your backbone may as well be non-excistant.

How so many people are able ot put up with this complete and utter nonsense you mask as feedback is beyond me. As it is quite obviously and solely aimed at trying to convince any doubters to buy your Cartel Garbage after all.

Speaking openly now to the entire "Bioware" team there at Austin. What is WRONG with you people. Has the money generated from SWTOR gotten you into some kind of "Gold Rush" or some other type of Delusion?

SWTOR could easily have had a wonderful and HEALTHY relationship between Developer/Player or Publisher/Customer even. Instead it has turned into a virtual medium which is prone on trying to reach in people's pockets by means that borderline deceit and scamming within perfectly legal contexts.

 

Tell me people of BIOWARE Austin, or all people of BIOWARE even; Does making a contract with EA require you to turn in your Balls? Is there NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU with the spine to come out in the open and admit that ALL OF THIS HAS GONE FAR ENOUGH?

I'd love to say that I'd await your response with bated braith. But I'd probably suffocate.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Osgorion

[Alssaran]

By knowing that there are now two items back into the pack, it becomes somewhat more reasonable. I would still be hard pressed to spend the price of a new AAA game on a hypercrate, but it is an objective way to explain the additional 100 CC.

 

One thing I would add for the GCC though: I think I have heard a lot of people say that they want GCC to not occupy the item slots - whether there are one or two items. Having an additional chance at a GCC, and without that roll disrupting the natural yield of a pack, would certainly add to the perceived value of the 300.

 

Basically, I would be more inclined to buy one or two supercrates if the value for 300 CC was this:

 

Pack item slot

Pack item slot

Additional crafting/boost/etc.

Grand Chance Cube chance

 

I don't know whether that is perceived as too much of a roll for the 300 CC, but it would reach a point where I perceive the 300 CC per pack as somewhat reasonable.

[Alssaran]

ALL OF THIS HAS GONE FAR ENOUGH?

 

Let me just sum this up, and people who know me are aware that I am by far not a KotFE enthusiast or CM addict.

 

Bioware made the packs contain less and dropped the price. They took out bronze items for the GCC. People were complaining about how they didn't get enough new items to justify a purchase. Now that Bioware answers the criticism by introducing a secondary item slot and raising the chance for new items, while at the same time keeping GCC overall, people still continue to say it has gone too far?

 

Oh, the irony...

[Osgorion]

Let me just sum this up, and people who know me are aware that I am by far not a KotFE enthusiast or CM addict.

 

Bioware made the packs contain less and dropped the price. They took out bronze items for the GCC. People were complaining about how they didn't get enough new items to justify a purchase. Now that Bioware answers the criticism by introducing a secondary item slot and raising the chance for new items, while at the same time keeping GCC overall, people still continue to say it has gone too far?

 

Oh, the irony...

 

You assume much.

"All" encompasses everything that's been met with less than enthousiastic reactions over the past year. That's quite a bit. Not just the CM. *Everything*.

From bad Bussiness MO's to the Tiresome and constant in your face Marketing decisions to the lack of *Real* content to the various overhyped insults the playerbase has had to contend with.

 

As for what the Cartel packs themselves are concerned

They didn't need to raise prices. They didn't need to add another slot. There's barely been one if any at all to ask for such changes! What they could have done is adress the ridiculous RNG people have been complaining about OR even better; Do away with the whole gambling system in the first place! That's been a topic for Years now.

 

 

You see Irony, I see Ignorance.

[Alssaran]

"All" encompasses everything that's been met with less than enthousiastic reactions over the past year. That's quite a bit. Not just the CM. *Everything*.

 

So, you choose to take a threat that was about discussing the recent changes to Cartel Packs and it's impact on the overall CM, and you then hijacked that thread to make a post that off-handedly and very colourfully (literally) just rants against all systems?

 

From bad Bussiness MO's to the Tiresome and constant in your face Marketing decisions to the lack of *Real* content to the various overhyped insults the playerbase has had to contend with.

 

Alright, I think we need to establish a difference between what people consider a business failure and a design failure. I certainly won't disagree that there is a lot of the later in this game, but the first one does not hold merrit. From a business point of view, this game is making a profit. It's turning a good profit. This game makes somewhere inbetween 43 and 59 million dollars a quarter from subscription and CM sales. This might be down to whales buying a lot of stuff, and not necessarily a wider player audience, but from a business point of view: The game is completely working. Bioware is currently tweaking the system in an attempt to find the sweet spot for CM pack content and sales numbers.

 

From a design POW, we could argue that this game has some more than serious issues, but from an economic point, I can see it as completely viable.

 

They didn't need to raise prices. They didn't need to add another slot. There's barely been one if any at all to ask for such changes!

 

I take it you haven't been to reddit and this forum much, have you? A lot of people were complaining about getting good value out of chance cubes, but also about how this entire system defeats the purpose of gaining new items from new packs. This was a topic for months, and it seems Bioware has adressed this in another adjustment to their sales tactic. If you seriously claim that there was no opposition to gaining less overall items from a pack, and to the idea that there were less new items involved, then I don't know what to tell you. Seriously, I believe that boarders at outright denial.

 

Do away with the whole gambling system in the first place! That's been a topic for Years now.

 

Why should they? It's making them a fortune by now. There is an overall psychological strategy behind the gambling system. Do you seriously think that Bioware hasn't consulted people who know their way around a cash shop? Who have studied economics and sales tactics, and even people who have a basic idea about how to add psychological factors into selling your products.

 

The simple fact seems to be that the system is working as intended. If you don't like it - don't buy it. That's what I have been doing for months.

[Uruare]

I used to buy a hypercrate or three every month.

 

Now? It's going to be 0 a month.

 

Why? I can still easily afford it. That won't be changing anytime soon.

 

I don't reward stupid, shortsighted greed, however.

 

All bioware keeps doing is screwing around with crates, always trying to find some new way to make us pay more for less.

 

There eventually comes a point when the 'they're a business, of course they're trying to make money' line stops being an excuse.

 

At this point, I can only conclude that Bioware is run by failed MBA washouts that don't understand anything what so ever about customer relations.

 

It's clear that they listen to nothing but spectacularly bad metrics devised in a vacuum by the incomprehensibly dim when making their business and development decisions for this game, and while that's not the devs' fault, it's still disgusting to see so plainly that they just go along with whatever the shareholder-worshipping bean counters dictate.

 

One could not possibly have a scrap of professional dignity left and be a wiling participant in sheer greedmongering and stupidity on these scales.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Uruare

[Khevar]

There eventually comes a point when the 'they're a business, of course they're trying to make money' line stops being an excuse.

I agree.

 

P.T. Barnum and Milton Hershey were both trying to make money.

 

But only one of them used "a sucker is born every minute" as their business model.

[TX_Angel]

Great explanation Eric...thank you.

 

Sure, except, it isn't true...

 

The Revenge Pack and the Gemini Pack have the same number of items, 4 per pack... 2 random drops, 1 gift, 1 scrap...

 

The Plunderer Pack and Visionary Pack are likewise 4 items, same item allotment.

 

What is sad is that people keep paying even when being lied right to their face...

[TX_Angel]

There eventually comes a point when the 'they're a business, of course they're trying to make money' line stops being an excuse.

 

I don't mind them trying to make money, there is no crime in that...

 

It is the dishonestly, outright lying and not caring, that is the real problem...

 

Eric's post was flat wrong, the actual information he posted was incorrect. The Revenge Pack is 200 CC, the Gemini Pack is 300 CC (or 250 CC, if you prefer), yet both have the same number of items in them.

 

So either Eric doesn't know what he is talking about, or he is intentionally lying.

 

Which is worse?

[dashriprock]

Reading comprehension, folks - they said: "We added 6 more Packs into each Hypercrate with KOTFE."

 

The Alliance Packs, which started with KOTFE, have 30 Packs in each Hypercrate, while all the Shipments pre-KOTFE had 24 per Hypercrate. That is the increase he was talking about; he never said the GEMINI Hypercrates have 6 more Packs than the other KOTFE ones.

 

OK, then why start the price increase with the GEMINI PACK?? And why even bring up that there are 6 more packs in KOTFE HYPERCRATES when trying to justify an increase in cost versus the previous KOTFE packs?? He makes it seem like that is a benefit of the current GEMINI pack and why the price was increased.

 

 

You may also notice that Hypercrates are more expensive than before. We added 6 more packs into each Hypercrate with KotFE and so the price is reflective of that change.

 

-eric

 

That is a very misleading start to that paragraph. It definitely makes it sound like he is connecting the current price increase, with the additional 6 packs.

 

Basically the context of the post makes it seem like they are given more value, but when you actually compare the previous packs with the GEMINI packs they are exactly the same, you just pay more money for the GEMINI pack.

[Sith-Viscera]

I still say offer all items as an individual piece of merchandise, set a price and sell it like that on the CM.

I would say some items should be bundled like the crafting junk, you can bundle so many together sell them like that.

Companion gifts same thing sell as a bundle, as well as dyes (i think there are already just dye packs). Bundles or packs would be good for those type of items. The Big items like gear, mounts so forth, sell as individual or sell armor as sets and weapons individual items or sets.

 

I am sure something like that would make subs happier, or just buyers of the CM products more inclined to want to spend their money, because they know what they are actually getting for their buck, and don't feel cheated.

 

I for one would spend my own money besides the free CC BW gives me, if that system or one similar was implemented.

JMO...........

 

Take Care and Be Well......

[Osgorion]

So, you choose to take a threat that was about discussing the recent changes to Cartel Packs and it's impact on the overall CM, and you then hijacked that thread to make a post that off-handedly and very colourfully (literally) just rants against all systems?

 

And why should I not? It is the sum of all things that has people so upset right now. Not just a "Small issue here and there". Moreso the sum of these problems still belong to the very same game and still excist in this very timeframe.

You act as though I'm making complaints about WoW in a SWTOR thread.

"I hijacked this thread"? Are you even serious...?

Rants? Are any of the concerns invalid? Do tell.

 

And you better be into Colors if you're going to keep up discussion with me, cause I'll use 'm whenever I like to.

 

Alright, I think we need to establish a difference between what people consider a business failure and a design failure. I certainly won't disagree that there is a lot of the later in this game, but the first one does not hold merrit. From a business point of view, this game is making a profit. It's turning a good profit. This game makes somewhere inbetween 43 and 59 million dollars a quarter from subscription and CM sales. This might be down to whales buying a lot of stuff, and not necessarily a wider player audience, but from a business point of view: The game is completely working. Bioware is currently tweaking the system in an attempt to find the sweet spot for CM pack content and sales numbers.

 

From a design POW, we could argue that this game has some more than serious issues, but from an economic point, I can see it as completely viable.

 

Should we not feel upset or voice ourselves when a bussiness starts to throw morals and ethics overboard?....

It may be objectively viable, but that in no way excuses it as being acceptable.

It is not to me. And I think it is quite safe to say to many others as well. Assuming you noticed...

 

I take it you haven't been to reddit and this forum much, have you? A lot of people were complaining about getting good value out of chance cubes, but also about how this entire system defeats the purpose of gaining new items from new packs. This was a topic for months, and it seems Bioware has adressed this in another adjustment to their sales tactic. If you seriously claim that there was no opposition to gaining less overall items from a pack, and to the idea that there were less new items involved, then I don't know what to tell you. Seriously, I believe that boarders at outright denial.

 

People were upset because when they buy new packs it is because they want the new items of it. Not the Old ones.

They felt (and I agreed on these points) that the cubes were an excuse to add even more RNG to the total and moving even further away from a direct-buy system.

Effectively; less chance to get the items they actually want to pay for. That was for most people the whole point.

They are fed up with the gamblecircus that are Cartel Packs.

Who exactly is in denial here?.. It certainly isn't me.

 

Why should they? It's making them a fortune by now. There is an overall psychological strategy behind the gambling system. Do you seriously think that Bioware hasn't consulted people who know their way around a cash shop? Who have studied economics and sales tactics, and even people who have a basic idea about how to add psychological factors into selling your products.

 

The simple fact seems to be that the system is working as intended. If you don't like it - don't buy it. That's what I have been doing for months.

 

Ah it's always so easy to just blame all the people. Why should a corporation be held accountable at all?

You are quick to throw in "Psychological Factors". But do you fully realise what that even entails?

 

It is because we people with our great wealth on prefferences and opinions do not so easily reach a consensus. Where as the corporate machine has clear goals and will dictate it's directives forcefully if it has to.

(EG: Employees not agreeing, getting fired or receiving consequences for "breach of contract".)

So we voice our concerns. I've been on the *Constructive Feedback* side. It gets ignored all too often.

 

These so called changes? I do not believe for one moment they are as a response to our concerns.

inspired on it, Yes. And twisted.

I believe it to be more likely that the regular changes are to avoid people getting a feel for how the packs do in the ingame economy. To create uncertainty about how things will look on GTN. And from that, trying to increase direct CC sales.