Dear Bioware, if you want us to leave just ask.

[Vhaegrant]

oh no not at all, I must apologize as english is not my native language and sometimes I do not explain what I meeant properly.

 

I just meant all those of us which were here since launch at 2012 and pretty much did everything but stuck around to support the game even through the bad times.

 

Also I find this event offensive because it was supposed to be the big summer activity post chapter 16 of KOTFE. Instead like the heroics it grinding same thing over and over for no reason. if it was retroactive and acknowledging everything we did until now I might even tried to make new characters to support dark side in this contest but instead I just lost heart looking at this thinking I'll need to replay all 8 classes again.

 

I believe I'm not alone just skim through reddit and dulfy even page and you will see many others agree with me.

Well, I was actually at the launch in 2011.

 

The trouble is if it was retroactive it wouldn't be fit for purpose. Many veterans would hit the Legendary achievement without having to do much more than log on, they may have a few loose ends to sort out but nothing that would require them to participate in scale.

 

I suspect, and would love a dev to correct me if I'm wrong, that the event is there to encourage participation across the levelling range during the player slump that usually occurs during summer, especially as this will also be the gap between season one and two.

 

The devs are counting on the completionist urge of many to reach for that Legendary level, maybe try content they wouldn't usually engage in or go back through some speed runs. Only 1 of the characters actually has to participate in expansion content all the others just have to reach a level (don't have to finish story or chapters just run them through flashpoints and get those achievements out of the way at the same time )

 

I hate to break it to you as you've been around for so long but the release schedule and content for SWTOR has always been slow and under supported (it's a shame as I honestly think GSF is deserving of more development) since launch, and players pointed to going back and trying out class stories they may not have already done, or if they have trying different choices.

 

I'm sure you're not alone, I guess you're one of many that had built up expectations that somehow BW would conjour up some meaningful end game PvE content for the season gap and summer slump.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I take it by 'Veteran Crowd' you mean elitist end gamers?

 

I've been here since launch, levelled up 19 characters to 65 the long way and have a few more 65s from the short 60 token route.

I've been through most of the Flashpoints but don't have the time, inclination or apparently skill to bother with OPs.

I was dragged back to an MMO because I like Star Wars and Bioware storytelling.

I represent those that enjoy the story focus and solo player experience.

 

The aim of the event is to get players to go back and bolster the numbers during the leaner summer months and over the gap between season 1 and 2.

 

If you want the Legendary title and mount you'll jump through the needed hoops. If most choose not to at least those few that do will have a truly exclusive boast

 

At worst Eternal level looks pretty easy to get done over a few months for the new companion. Although to be honest I'd rather they left out the server wide contest and just reward you if you get to darkside V and/or lightside V.

 

Hate to break the news to you...but you dont represent anyone but yourself...But dont let that get in the way of your long winded, self serving post...

[Max_Killjoy]

The "Alliance Hero" portion of the Legendary level of rewards requires you to play new "light side/dark side" characters for all eight classes and level all eight to level 50. Per Dulfy:

 

"To complete the objective “The Story Continues”, you must take a Dark vs. Light event character and gain enough experience to gain Character level 50 with all eight Classes. In order to reach level 50, you simply need to play almost any part of Star Wars: The Old Republic. This includes Missions, Warzones, Flashpoints, and more! To track your progress, simply look at your character’s current level, listed next to your portrait. You must have one level 50 of each of the following eight Classes:

 

~

 

Once all eight Classes among your Characters have reached level 50, you will receive the Achievement “Dark vs. Light: Alliance Hero” to note that you have completed this objective."

 

So in other words, a giant middle finger to anyone who's already done all that, sometimes several times per class?

Edited June 23, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[DanNV]

So in other words, a giant middle finger to anyone who's already done all that, sometimes several times per class?

 

As many times as I have disagreed with things I've seen you post, this tome you hit it right on the head.

 

So, I'll help my wife with whatever parts of this she wants, but I'm not going to chase any of it myself. This should about cover it.

[Baby-Girl]

I take it by 'Veteran Crowd' you mean elitist end gamers?

 

If you want the Legendary title and mount you'll jump through the needed hoops. If most choose not to at least those few that do will have a truly exclusive boast

 

At worst Eternal level looks pretty easy to get done over a few months for the new companion. Although to be honest I'd rather they left out the server wide contest and just reward you if you get to darkside V and/or lightside V.

 

Well firstly, I am one of the "Vetern Crowd" and do not consider myself an Elitist End-Gamer. I would personally appreciate you refraining from classifying all long-term subs (veterans) as Elitist.

 

As I mentioned in another thread. This is a promotion for new players and as usual, they will not make the "reach level 50 with all 8 classes" retroactive which I agree, totally sucks. I am a player since launch in Dec 2011. This was before the Legacy system even existed ... when they finally did launch it, I had to re-do a bunch of content to have it counted in my Achievements. Believe me, I wasn't impressed with having to re-do a bunch of crap I hated just for an achievement but I did it.

 

However, I am totally fine with leveling 2 new toons for this event because the structure and reward teirs up to the Legacy Level are perfectly achievable by all players.

 

And while I don't agree entirely with the OP's statements, I do think that he/she is pointing out that the Legendary Reward Level creates barriers that render it unattainable by many of the "veteran players;" unless they jump over hurdles that new players do not have to deal with.

 

From Eric's comments today and from the information released, it tells us that unless we start a fresh Legacy on a different server or delete a bunch of toons and re-roll, the long-term subs will never achieve the completed Legendary Reward level -- if this is how it truly will work, then it really isn't fair to the long-term subscribers.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Baby-Girl

[BorisKarloffe]

Alternate titles for this event: Swtor Groundhog Day edition, 50 First Toons, and Live Die Delete.

[gabigool]

OP thank you for this post, it's pretty much spot on.

 

This "event" is worse than I could have even imagined, and my bar was set very, very low.

[JourrnoRush]

I agree. It is a slap to players who have been here since day one.

 

Why would you expect your veteran players to regrind all the content they already faithfully completed? Possibly on numerous toons, numerous times...

 

I love the game and I have found plenty to do still at end game. But to get these new rewards requires me to go back and start from lv1 on characters I already brought to 65? Then I have to recraft to get those up?

 

What about those of us who already bought the legacy HK-51? Too bad soo sad? DO IT AGAIN!

 

You guys have a cool event and it would be AWESOME for vets to have less to do versus new players. THAT would entice more people to stay subbed vs trying to grab new players.

 

You don't make any sense with your logic BW. The individual who had this idea either really wants your game to lose your oldest fans and see it burn OR needs to go back to cleaning toilets.

[Daewan]

Mostly agree with the OP. It should be partially retroactive, at least. Or something. There should be some bones thrown to existing players. As it stands, this is a horrible, horrible, polarizing event that will do no good to the playerbase. I strongly suggest that someone at BW takes another good, hard look at what they are offering here, and who they are offering it to.

[Urantia]

Par for the course for these C- grads from an unaccredited art school. I never in my wildest dreams expected to log on for the event and get it all retroactively. Retroactive is, and always will be, beyond their skill set. Anyone that has been here since launch already knows this all too well. With few exceptions, most stuff has had to be redone by players in my personal experiences.

 

I did however expect to be allowed to use my elder toons to participate. I suppose I thought it was a real event where anyone could participate. I completed all 8 classes and hit legacy lvl 50 before 1.1 dropped lol {sure was cool having to wait for 4.0 to get a title for that lol}...before there was even a legacy interface to click on. Naturally since then I have played every class and tree/discipline and their mirrors...with several redundant/repeat toons. I currently have 33 characters on The Shadowlands all long lvl capped with the exception of the lasts 3 lvling in PvP {all repeat/redundant toons currently 58, 60, 61} as most have before them {save the original 8 that lvled "traditionally"}.

 

Again I never expected to get anything retroactively, but was hoping for an event I could actually participate in without making yet more toons. Frankly, I have no slots left and certainly not going to buy any more....so guess that is that. Imagine if they did this **** before they raised the server char cap to 40 {or whatever it is now}...people would be even more annoyed as they would then have to make the hard choice of deleting characters etc {perhaps}.

 

Now from reading this thread people are eluding to the fact I would need to make 8 more and do it all again....am I "hearing" that right? I do not even have a slot to make one...certainly not going to make 8. This company is insane if they think I am going to redo what I did pre-1.1....sure lvling is a joke compared to back then, but still.

 

I get it...fine...you do not want me or any like me to participate. That or you expect us to spend more CC etc to buy slots....and slog through, yet again, the same old ********. I cannot for the life of me find the energy to do all that again without going insane. It really is a shame I will not be allowed to participate in this event. More titles to never display...more mounts to never use, more gear that is worthless {like players need anymore help speed lvling these days lol...what a *********** joke}......and yet another companion that will never see the light of day with the other N we have.

 

I was, however, hoping for something to do besides standing on Fleet waiting for a PvP Q pop. Oh well. Thanks for nothing BW. It is no wonder this game is dead anymore. I really need to rethink my priorities and whether or not I should keep paying for this incompetence. Chances are it will be broken anyways....forcing player to waste time and redo the redo.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Urantia

[fresnodog]

So in other words, a giant middle finger to anyone who's already done all that, sometimes several times per class?

 

It certainly makes me wonder who the target audience of the event is.

[peter_plankskull]

It certainly makes me wonder who the target audience of the event is.

 

Those who binge through all the content and then leave the game forever.

[lironBD]

This is a really good post from reddit which I wanted to link here as it shed some more in dept information about playerbase feelings:

 

 

 

I think this event is a good indicator of how disconnected Bioware Austin is from any kind of design philosophy for future content. About how disconnected they are from their playerbase and the volatile substance they are dealing with. In short, I think they lack a very specific thing - creativity. This event isn't creative. It isn't incentivising me to do it past the Eternal Level. At least not for those rewards and the stuff I'd have to do.

 

Let's start with the obvious issue: This game is asking long-term players to repeat the same content they have already been repeating for the past few months - ad nauseam. We've been running the very same heroics for months. Heck, I think we'll total over a year in terms of PvE. There was a new PvP map, but that's only giving a different paint over a very troubled system.

 

In short, this event is nothing more than a way to promote the same repetitive content again. As a veteran player, I seriously don't feel included at all. I don't feel as if Bioware actually wants to impress people. Wants to keep me around. They don't appear to want to create anything substantial. Promote the same old content. Do it again. Do it again.

 

This event adds nothing new to the table besides a few cosmetic rewards. We're doing the same stuff we've been doing for four years - just so we can get one of two semi-interesting companions.

 

Before this escalates into a meaningless rant, I want to clarify why I have so many issues with this event. Keep in mind that those issues are subjective. You might not share them. Take them with a grain of salt.

 

The character requirements

 

Guys, we get it. You hate server and guild communities. These evil things give us a sense of social communication. As gamers, I think we do hate social interaction. Let's boil this down to a simple problem: What about those people who have built legacies and main characters over the past years? Who have guilds they love to chat with, and who have friends on a server? Those who are playing the game for your focus (story)? They already have maximum character slot occupation. That's what happens when you are a story player. I have nineteen characters on The Progenitor. What this boils down to is the following: Buy more unlocks.

 

That's actually a statement from Eric. "We will be putting those character unlocks on sale when the event starts". Eric, I'm a bloody subscriber. I have been for years. You reward me by having me spent more money outside of that on this event to even participate, and then I am allowed to run old content for some new rewards after spending additional money.

 

This doesn't cut it. This is, frankly, an insult to your paying customers. Alright, I get it. I'll drink the shot now, and then I will continue. And...done. This is something I say very rarely, and I try to stay objective as much as possible, but I can't put it any other way. You seem to force me to pay additional money to participate in an event that makes me repeat content I have been doing for years.

 

You better give every subscriber a free character slot as soon as this starts. That would be the reasonable thing to do. I doubt many people love the idea of spending more money on this. Either I do that, or I completely move servers for a few months of casual gameplay after establishing my complete level fifty legacy with twenty characters on my home server - a community I have made friends in.

 

Credit sink

 

I might be the only one to say it, but does anyone get the feeling that those two companions offer one of the most promising credit sinks in recent months?

 

Blizzard did it with the Chopper mount. The mount that won was given to players for free. If you wanted the other one, you could buy it for 100,000 gold coins. A good sum back then. Not only do I think this "scrap the other companion" is a needless waste of precious development resources and designers taking their time to write/make them, but it completely leaves out the possibility of making this one of the best credit sinks up to date.

 

Put the losing companion on a mercenary vendor on the fleet. Make it cost 15-20 million credits. I would never pay that much for a crossguard lightsaber, but for a female Chiss force user with a potential interesting recruitment mission to go along with it? Heck yeah.

 

The companions

 

Let's be clear here: This is now really subjective. I get the feeling that the light side character has so much more potential than the dark side character. This is coming from a player who has both factions leveled out. Please just compare those two characters and the relative implications of their appearance.

 

The light side force user is a Chiss. A Jedi Chiss. A light side Jedi Chiss. There are so many interesting implications behind those four words.

 

How did she leave the Ascendancy?

Why did she join the Jedi Order?

Does her personality and potential upbringing as a member of the Chiss Ascendancy clash with her views as a light side Jedi?

How the hell could she afford a crossguard lightsaber?

 

That's a character I'm actually slightly interested in. A character I would like to know more about - romance or not.

 

The dark side companion is an Iridonian Sith. Not to be rude, but hasn't this been done before? Two times actually?

 

It simply seems as if the designer for the light side companion had a really good idea. The dark side companion seems like an addition based on a liked stereotype from the EU. Look, she even uses a saberstaff. Those two people I linked never did that, and one of them wasn't famous for using it skillfully to kill a Jedi Master.

 

Bioware, I know you can do better. You still have some amazing writers left. Use that. Try to become creative - even if that means introducing an unplayable race as a companion.

 

The Rakghoul achievement

 

Now, I want to specifiy my issue with this. I do like that you want to promote the old events a bit, but is that necessary?

 

People hate the plague. People buy vaccines or retreat to their SH completely. People have voiced how this is one of the most annoying parts of the game. Now you're introducing this as part of a mandatory achievement chain for the last tier.

 

For gods sake, I don't mind the event happening, but is that really necessary? So many people voiced their discontent with that certain feature, and now it is a mandatory requirement for the last tier. Please, god, no. Don't do this.

 

In short, I think the event has potential. Right now, I can only see a half-baked promotion of the old content. It feels as if veteran players are asked to genuinely f**k themselves.

 

 

[Urantia]

Those who binge through all the content and then leave the game forever.

 

Basically. Lest we forget they also cry the whole time they are here, get the game to change to their liking, then leave anyhow...leaving the rest of us with **** we never asked for.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Urantia

[ZeroTypeR]

Yeeeaaa, that won't be happening for me. One toon for the companion, sure, but 8? thru kotfe AND revan? again?? hahahaha, uh, no. And I won't even go there about how long that would take.

 

Anyways, I agree, even tho I have 0 interest in the legendary status.

[SFDebris]

What exactly is wrong with the new event?

 

What I feel is wrong with the event specifically is that it's top heavy. If you do the following:

-Reach lvl 65 on one Empire and one Republic Character

-Complete all tactical Flashpoints

-Do Shadows of Revan

-Do KotFE

-Achieve Valor 5

-Complete Eternal Championship Level 5

-Recruited Five Alliance Members

and last and most definitely least

-Do the Stronghold Intro mission

 

You have completed all tiers except Legendary. The Legendary tier is then composed of the rest, a list that is about twice that size, and there is (effectively) zero reward to achieving anything less than all. And given that some of them demand group activities that are notoriously unreliable to get groups together for if you're not in a guild, there is no point in trying to achieve Legendary because you can fall short for any number of reasons beyond your control, and all the effort put into it amounts to nothing, you can grind up eight characters and all the crafting etc., but if you can't find a group to take down just one operations or world boss, then you get nothing more than anyone who completed the first five tiers and just stopped.

 

So to me, the fundamental flaw is that someone who completes about 35% of the event gets just as much as someone who completes 99% (except for a few meaningless achievements). That just doesn't seem like a sensible way to run a special event.

[MiguelGx]

What I feel is wrong with the event specifically is that it's top heavy. If you do the following:

-Reach lvl 65 on one Empire and one Republic Character

-Complete all tactical Flashpoints

-Do Shadows of Revan

-Do KotFE

-Achieve Valor 5

-Complete Eternal Championship Level 5

-Recruited Five Alliance Members

and last and most definitely least

-Do the Stronghold Intro mission

 

You have completed all tiers except Legendary. The Legendary tier is then composed of the rest, a list that is about twice that size, and there is (effectively) zero reward to achieving anything less than all. And given that some of them demand group activities that are notoriously unreliable to get groups together for if you're not in a guild, there is no point in trying to achieve Legendary because you can fall short for any number of reasons beyond your control, and all the effort put into it amounts to nothing, you can grind up eight characters and all the crafting etc., but if you can't find a group to take down just one operations or world boss, then you get nothing more than anyone who completed the first five tiers and just stopped.

 

So to me, the fundamental flaw is that someone who completes about 35% of the event gets just as much as someone who completes 99% (except for a few meaningless achievements). That just doesn't seem like a sensible way to run a special event.

 

Yeah, there's just not enough time to complete them all.

[LosevV]

I simply agree with author. I have the same situation and this event is just...hurt...that my first MMO that I realy played, that I realy liked...but they doing ridiculous thing to players and now I starting to think that they come to new level of sadism...

[Daniellcarlson]

I think I can represent the "Veteran Crowd" of the playerbase in spirit.

I bought the game when it was launched for 60$, paid my monthly subs and came back over and over each time paying for subscriptions and purchasing the expansions.

I played through everything in the game and did most of the raids (missing few nightmares) with my guilds, ventured through PVP and explored the game thoroughly.

I got 8 level 65 each one of different class and legacy 50, I got also dark\light V.

In the past I had over 50 characters which I've deleted once I've settled on the 8 I want so you can be sure I played A LOT and did most of what this game had to offer.

 

I really love the game at its core of what it was pre-4.0 and I am big fan of bioware for many years but,

 

For long time since 4.0 you, bioware, as developer keep acting in strange alienating way. I'm not trying to hurt anyone but that's my personal feeling.

 

First you turned the game in pure single player experience, most of the "new" content you gave us was horrible heroics, which broke the economy with loads of cash flowing around.

KOTFE Chapters are 1 time through and you can't even visit same place again after that like yavin 4 or makeb.

No new meaningful quests or raids, PVP and GSF are sad story by itself.

 

Even though you made that HK shenanigan with the bonus chapter for being subscriber for few months and made all those HK'gasm remarks on your twitch I wanted to support you as a fan and try to do my best to give you a chance.

 

Now coming to the end of KOTFE season 1, most of the guilds I was member in moved to a greener pastures with more raids and group content, lonely with pugs I keep doing same old quests waiting month each time for the 40 minutes 'fix' of new story.

 

But today...

oh boy...

That felt like slap to my face.

The new Dark\Light event. It's wonderful for new player just starting the game but as someone who already done everything in the game multiple time its same as saying "We don't want the veteran playerbase anymore, from now we cater only new players!".

 

seriously, who's bright idea was not to retroactively count everyone's achievements and history in the game like when legacy system came out? For me and I'm sure many others this is just an utter joke.

 

 

___________________________________________

 

Bottom line,

As big fan and supporter of Bioware and SWTOR I just ask you, be honest.

you don't want us here? just ask - no need for all of those insulting actions and choices you make along the way.

its disrespectful toward us as players and lesser you as gaming company.

 

oh look another please hand it to me thread.

 

they are running a business, they want your money. dont like it then leave along with everyone else who likes to complain about everything.

 

its like reading star wars galaxies threads about how you missed out on the village and how to you think you deserve an elder robe or should have the buff that makes you look like a hologram. everyday. /tired

[Max_Killjoy]

oh look another please hand it to me thread.

 

Not really, if you actually read the details of the "event" and the complaints about it.

[gabigool]

oh look another please hand it to me thread.

 

oh look another troll

[casirabit]

oh look another please hand it to me thread.

 

they are running a business, they want your money. dont like it then leave along with everyone else who likes to complain about everything.

 

its like reading star wars galaxies threads about how you missed out on the village and how to you think you deserve an elder robe or should have the buff that makes you look like a hologram. everyday. /tired

 

show me some new rewards that they are giving. Those rewards you are getting have been in the game for a long time and most of us have the complete (noticed I said complete not pieces) of the armor in our collections. The only thing I don't have is the weapon tunings, unstable lightsaber and revan's armor (but I didn't want it in the first place) and yet they are giving us pieces of that and oh yea you can't vendor it either and so if you have it you either delete it or stuck with it.

 

Please why would any veteran want to go through all this and for what a new companion that you may not like since this is not based on your actions but on the actions of an entire game population. No thank you.

 

 

I have already worked for these achievements since 2011. Why do you think we are asking for it to be given to us we already did the work for the achievements.

Edited June 24, 2016 by casirabit

[AizaTalzin]

Holy hell I've never seen a gaming company treat veteran players this badly.

 

Eric, what the hell are you all thinking over there? You're getting trashed on your forums, trashed on youtube, trashed on reddit... and though you normally get trashed for things from a small vocal minority... THIS IS A MAJORITY of your player base that are sticking their middle fingers right at you all.

 

As Chris Carter would say, "C'mon, Man!?"

[Fleurdelis]

Alternate titles for this event: Swtor Groundhog Day edition, 50 First Toons, and Live Die Delete.

 

I LIVE! I DIE! I LIVE AGAIN! Do we get chrome spray paint for our lips and teeth?

[ivanhedgehog]

I think I can represent the "Veteran Crowd" of the playerbase in spirit.

I bought the game when it was launched for 60$, paid my monthly subs and came back over and over each time paying for subscriptions and purchasing the expansions.

I played through everything in the game and did most of the raids (missing few nightmares) with my guilds, ventured through PVP and explored the game thoroughly.

I got 8 level 65 each one of different class and legacy 50, I got also dark\light V.

In the past I had over 50 characters which I've deleted once I've settled on the 8 I want so you can be sure I played A LOT and did most of what this game had to offer.

 

I really love the game at its core of what it was pre-4.0 and I am big fan of bioware for many years but,

 

For long time since 4.0 you, bioware, as developer keep acting in strange alienating way. I'm not trying to hurt anyone but that's my personal feeling.

 

First you turned the game in pure single player experience, most of the "new" content you gave us was horrible heroics, which broke the economy with loads of cash flowing around.

KOTFE Chapters are 1 time through and you can't even visit same place again after that like yavin 4 or makeb.

No new meaningful quests or raids, PVP and GSF are sad story by itself.

 

Even though you made that HK shenanigan with the bonus chapter for being subscriber for few months and made all those HK'gasm remarks on your twitch I wanted to support you as a fan and try to do my best to give you a chance.

 

Now coming to the end of KOTFE season 1, most of the guilds I was member in moved to a greener pastures with more raids and group content, lonely with pugs I keep doing same old quests waiting month each time for the 40 minutes 'fix' of new story.

 

But today...

oh boy...

That felt like slap to my face.

The new Dark\Light event. It's wonderful for new player just starting the game but as someone who already done everything in the game multiple time its same as saying "We don't want the veteran playerbase anymore, from now we cater only new players!".

 

seriously, who's bright idea was not to retroactively count everyone's achievements and history in the game like when legacy system came out? For me and I'm sure many others this is just an utter joke.

 

 

___________________________________________

 

Bottom line,

As big fan and supporter of Bioware and SWTOR I just ask you, be honest.

you don't want us here? just ask - no need for all of those insulting actions and choices you make along the way.

its disrespectful toward us as players and lesser you as gaming company.

 

not so much as a slap in the face but a kick in the crotch