Class Changes Coming in Game Update 4.5

[AlrikFassbauer]

Death From Below

 

LOL

 

Something like the Jaws movie, only on Tatooine ? [ Hint : Jawas ! ]

 

This sounds rather to me as if it could have been a Pyrotech ability ... flames licking up from the deep and hellish underground ...

[ThrakhathSpawn]

I stopped running progression content with 4.0 as the marked ops meant there was no longer a fun progression tree. I can't comment on PVE.

 

However, in PVP, its the healing sorcerers ability to avoid damage by breaking range or LOS that is the real kicker to their being able to stay alive indefinitely if they know what they are doing. Removing one mobile cast or channel, or removing phase walk, is all it takes.

 

There is a post in general to bring back Full Auto at 10m range for Vanguards, and its equivalent ability for PT's. I would love to see this, the blaster pistol would become less ornamental.

Edited May 15, 2016 by ThrakhathSpawn

[Sardorim]

Power tech survivibilty too high? Have you ever fought a Sorcerer? Edited May 15, 2016 by Sardorim

[Tsillah]

Well one thing I know for sure...nerfs like this only cause more people to leave the game than it causes people to say "Oh hey, SWTOR just nerfed XXXX class, I'm gonna start subscribing again!"

 

Considering how much crying has been going on about sorcerers being op, you might actually be wrong about that. I wonder if you've been listening to the community at all?

 

And just for reference, my main is a sorcerer healer.

[AlrikFassbauer]

There seems to be an unknown bug regarding Snipers ? : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=803107 Edited May 15, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[UberSamoyed]

Yo, Eric!

How about some love for Lethality/Ruffian?

 

Becouse your DoT spread is working like a pile of podoo.

Seriously folks. MAKE YOUR BATTLE TEAM WORK!!!

Tie DoT spread to corrosive grenade.

Do it. Just DO IT.

:mad:

 

This is actually a very good idea. As is, the poison dot spread on the Carbine Burst conal is buggy and inefficient. There is no spread for corrosive. None. Zero. Nada. As is, Lethality is severely limited in any aoe confrontation. With a terrible opening burst and burdensome dot spread, it's just a shame that such a fun class is so fundamentally flawed.

Edited May 15, 2016 by UberSamoyed

[Tsetso]

This is actually a very good idea. As is, the poison dot spread on the Carbine Burst conal is buggy and inefficient. There is no spread for corrosive. None. Zero. Nada. As is, Lethality is severely limited in any aoe confrontation. With a terrible opening burst and burdensome dot spread, it's just a shame that such a fun class is so fundamentally flawed.

 

Too bad it's not going to happen. The retarded carbine burst should have been removed from the game a long time ago but instead they try to invent new ways to force us to use it.

[ludoviccb]

This is actually a very good idea. As is, the poison dot spread on the Carbine Burst conal is buggy and inefficient. There is no spread for corrosive. None. Zero. Nada. As is, Lethality is severely limited in any aoe confrontation. With a terrible opening burst and burdensome dot spread, it’s just a shame that such a fun class is so fundamentally flawed.

 

Beside the dot spread, the entire class need some more aoe damage abilities that work reliably with the position update issue. Carbine Burst isn’t worth the GCD for concealment since it’s damage is so low even with the utility to increase it. It’s just more time effective to single target dps everything.

 

Also, for it to work, you need to jump before using it otherwise it’s pointing toward whatever the server think it is. Trooper/BH got the same aiming issue with pulse cannon/flamethrowers, but it’s a channel and they can adjust if they are slightly unaligned.

 

It’s the worst AoE attack without cooldown for the maximum damage output per GCD and the 2nd worse for the minimal damage output per GCD. I’ve compared all the AoE attacks damage from the description of every advance class or their mirror using empty shells for both Main Hand and offhand, no discipline and no cell/form active.

This list the result of those tests going from best to worse by maximum potential damage per GCD.

 

1 Gunslinger: Sweeping Gunfire 863–889 (not sure if the Offhand also do damage on top of those numbers)

2 Commando: Hail of Bolts 686–704.5

3 Sorcerer: Force Storm 641

4 Sentinel: Cyclone Slash Main Hand 529–538 Offhand 106–108 (I know that the Offhand hit and do damage on top of the Main Hand. The offhand damage is counted as 20% of the Main Hand damage [67% hit chance and 30% Main Hand damage])

5 Shadow: Whirling Blows 553-562.

6 Guardian: Cyclone Slash 542–551

7 Vanguard: Explosive Surge 359–546 (Elemental)

8 Operative: Carbine Burst 496–504

 

For the class to be viable in a PvE setting, it needs an increase of its AoE damage output and reliability. I would change it so that it’s not a conic attack, but a 360 attack like Explosive Surge and Whirling Blow. It would solve the problem that you can miss a target right in front of your character with Carbine Burst.

[Bonzenaattori]

Vanguard ranged potential is currently too strong for a class that is intended to be played as a close-quarters combatant.

 

Is this why you made Low Slash 30m ?

 

Sorry but two skills doesn't warrant a class having a "strong range potential".

Edited May 15, 2016 by Bonzenaattori

[Greezt]

Is this why you made Low Slash 30m ?

 

Sorry but two skills doesn't warrant a class having a "strong range potential".

 

Lol.

 

/5char

[Aurec]

Reducing Missile Blast to 10m. Missile Blast to 10m. Missile Blast to TEN METERS.

News flash: No one uses Missile Blast, except occasionally me, for ***** and giggles; or as an extra missile for the end of Death From Above... And IO Mercs for Volatile Warhead. Oh and it had it's uses knocking people off a node cap... How about instead of beating a bottle of glue, you make Missile Blast actually WORTH using. It's got a pretty cool animation, fits the whole theme of Bounty Hunter perfectly. Do SOMETHING with it to make it useful, as it stands now, everyone takes it off their bar around what, Lv. 10?

 

And Rail Shot to 10m. Really. 10m is still within range of your darling Juggs/Guardians, with their MUCH better defensives and heal to full. I could have SWORN you said you considered PTs something of a mid range class. Rail Shot is fine as is, does what it needs to, it's a karking RAILGUN, and the most notable thing about railguns is range/velocity. I can't think of more than a few instances where I finished someone off with a Rail Shot as they were approaching 30m, so it's not like we sit off to the sides Rail Shot sniping. I can MAYBE see dropping it to 20m, but 10m makes it a Rail Shotgun, which is as idiotic as it sounds. Y'know what, might as well just bring back Shoulder Charge (Remember that kids?) and replace Rail Shot with it if you're going to go forward with this asinine change, it'd make more friggin' sense.

 

Meanwhile, Force Users can still throw that saber as far as they want...what a joke.

This portion of the patch is just bass ackwards. Unneeded and unwarranted. You missed the mark here. Entirely. F+

 

I'm Pyrotech for life, so don't even start in on me about AP.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Aurec

[Gyronamics]

Reducing Missile Blast to 10m. Missile Blast to 10m. Missile Blast to TEN METERS.

News flash: No one uses Missile Blast, except occasionally me, for ***** and giggles; or as an extra missile for the end of Death From Above... And IO Mercs for Volatile Warhead. Oh and it had it's uses knocking people off a node cap... How about instead of beating a bottle of glue, you make Missile Blast actually WORTH using. It's got a pretty cool animation, fits the whole theme of Bounty Hunter perfectly. Do SOMETHING with it to make it useful, as it stands now, everyone takes it off their bar around what, Lv. 10?

 

The excitement aside it is true that Explosive Round is the worst non-rotation instant ranged attack in the game.

 

Compared to Project for Consulars and Quick Shot for Smugglers it's very expensive and at the same time doing much less damage.

 

And why?

 

It grants an AOE effect on the lowest levels of mobs. Not ALL mobs, not PLAYERS but weak and standard mobs.

 

So there's this constant penalty in damage and cost for a very situational AOE effect that almost never gets used outside basic levelling since Troopers have a large number of much better AOE which work on everything.

 

It's a horrible thing. An ability penalised strictly for trash mobs.

[snifsnif]

Allways nerfing PVE players for PVP balance....

I play only one class a BH PT advanced proto.

Do you know that op are only DPS distant friendly ? my opinion is PT average DPS is very inequal due to OP strats, and group composition. We are very often moving, and not in good range.... so Railgun at 30m is very usefull.

Why don't you nerf distant when acting low range ? and rebuild op to equal distant/low range strats ?

With rail range 10m, you'll break my good feeling mid-range class, ok that's too much for me.

 

The best solution ? separate PvP and PvE skills...

 

For 4.5 why not debugging op16 bug players in multiple different instances, server lags (not player lags), and others ?

I'm really off doing and doing the same op again and again, wiping now on OP done too much time in Nim prev 4.0....

Perhaps you want to continue emptying servs.

Edited May 16, 2016 by snifsnif

[PatT]

I am actually quite furious for the change in the force in balance *radius* change. If it were a DIAMETER change, that would be diff. but Radius means it's going from 16' to 10' That's nearly a 1/2 nerf.

 

And why not balance skills for pvp when entering pvp, and then keep a pve balance for pve? Because some specs dont' even work for pve anymore. Or barely. The soundrel has PITIFUL aoe.

 

I've been here since the beginning and only 1 year of that time has been a pleasure to pve on a sage healer. And now, because of pvp complaints, it's going away again. Why, bioware, why? You have to balance pvp differently, nothing else will work.

[AdjeYo]

I am actually quite furious for the change in the force in balance *radius* change. If it were a DIAMETER change, that would be diff. but Radius means it's going from 16' to 10' That's nearly a 1/2 nerf.

 

And why not balance skills for pvp when entering pvp, and then keep a pve balance for pve? Because some specs dont' even work for pve anymore. Or barely. The soundrel has PITIFUL aoe.

 

I've been here since the beginning and only 1 year of that time has been a pleasure to pve on a sage healer. And now, because of pvp complaints, it's going away again. Why, bioware, why? You have to balance pvp differently, nothing else will work.

 

Yes you'll have a 10m diameter, like pretty much every other AoE. There's only 5 AoE's with a 16 meter diameter currently: Orbital Strike, Supressive Fire, Fusion Missile, Force Storm and Death Field. All of these have some sort of cast or channel tied to them except Death Field. Additionally Death Field is together with Fusion Missile the only one that actually spreads dots and the only one that spreads two dots (IO has seperate spreads for both dots). So I can see their reasoning for nerfing it's radius for madness sorcs, considering they have by far the easiest dotspread and at a 30m range at that. For hatred it would be nice if they could at least bring its range or its dotspread back.

 

As for sorc healers, if you don't see that sorc healers need some sort of nerf, I don't know what to tell you.

[Lalainnia]

One thing that is nice in this update are the small designer notes on WHY they are making changes and not using the eternal excuse of just "metrics". Information like that is always welcome even if people agree or disagree with it dev insight is important so thanks.

[AlrikFassbauer]

One thing that is nice in this update are the small designer notes on WHY they are making changes and not using the eternal excuse of just "metrics". Information like that is always welcome even if people agree or disagree with it dev insight is important so thanks.

 

THis is VERY important, indeed.

[Excise]

Haven't healed Sorc/Sages enough to comment on that part, but I don't see why we'd be nerfing Shadows/Assassins given how much of a liability melee are in the later Operations.

 

P.S. It is indeed nice having the developer notes in there.

[llayles]

I wonder if bio would consider a damage buff for Rail-shot considering it's now 1/3rd the range it was. Maybe a damage bonus on a target below 30% health?

[JediAkemi]

Yeah, I still don't understand the logic behind these incoming changes.

Why punish people in PVE with changes that are intended to make PVP more balanced yet don't seem to properly achieve that anyway?

 

Is it really so hard to make things work differently in PVP to how they work in PVE?

No, seriously. Is it really that hard?

[Hathenor]

I think you got this all wrong. Why nerf/buff classes in both PVP and PVE? PVE doesn't need anything like this, on the other hand PVP does. You could simply alter some skills for PVP to try and balance some classes out. F.E. commandos are strong yes, but they have little to none defence from every other class even the mirror one that seems to heal itself way better than a commando does. The annoying stabbing on the other hand that some classes have, they can lirerally follow and stab you from 10m afar. Since when a knife is that long?

There is this impression that the imperial classes are way more efficient than the rep ones, Ask anybody about that and certainly not an imp,They always complain without a reason.There is no mirror class in this game as for PVP so start fixing things from this point and on. Fix skills for PVP and let PVE alone as it is, there is no need to temper that.

[AlrikFassbauer]

and stab you from 10m afar. Since when a knife is that long?

 

LOL !

 

Well, perhaps it's rather a Gladius or something ?

[KnightTyler]

One thing that is nice in this update are the small designer notes on WHY they are making changes and not using the eternal excuse of just "metrics". Information like that is always welcome even if people agree or disagree with it dev insight is important so thanks.

 

I definitely agree. Hope they keep it up.

[AlrikFassbauer]

There is this impression that the imperial classes are way more efficient than the rep ones, Ask anybody about that and certainly not an imp,They always complain without a reason.There is no mirror class in this game as for PVP so start fixing things from this point and on. Fix skills for PVP and let PVE alone as it is, there is no need to temper that.

 

Well, there do exist mirror classes - but with entire different looks & animations. Some animations just look ugly ...

But mainly, it's the players. Since in these forums almost exclusively imperial side abilities are used, imp side players have a slight advantage to become faster accomodated with them and better trained. Plus, there are guids shoiwing exclusively the imperial side of both mirror classes. Which strengthens this advantage even more.

 

Players here assume that you play or have played both sides, so that people can easily translate one morror's abilities to the other side.

But this is plain wrong. Not everyone plays both sides. Yes, maybe most people do, but not everyone.

 

And if people play the imp side first of both sides, they also have that advantage of forum & guides almost exclusively using imp side terms. They learn so much faster with that, and thus become much more efficient in early phases.

 

And in the end, it's the better trained player base which is more efficient. Which is why imp side dominates PvP so much.

[Gyronamics]

One thing that is nice in this update are the small designer notes on WHY they are making changes and not using the eternal excuse of just "metrics". Information like that is always welcome even if people agree or disagree with it dev insight is important so thanks.

 

Yes, I've said as much before: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8914349#post8914349

 

It's extremely irritating to see patch notes changes with zip diddly squat in the way of intentions behind them.