Guardian Redundant Abilities

[aznthecapn]

Bump.

[MrYar]

Sundering Strike replaces Slice entirely. No CD, builds 2 focus (via talents).

Guardian Slash is your primary, CD based threat builder.

Slash is your focus dump when everthing is on CD and you're overloaded on focus.

Hilt Strike is high threat or stun, as it is now.

Force Sweep retains loses SOME damage but its CD and cost is reduced (via talents). Give it a 6s CD and free to use.

Riposte is my favorite skill. Usable off CD, provides a defensive barrier when used encouraging you to use it often.

 

Disagree on Sundering Strike. I like being able to hit more than one button at every time, and sometimes when tanking I have to use both Sundering and Strike (not Slice) to get some focus.

Slash: Have you tried Vigilance?

Force Sweep: Have you tried Vigilance?

Tier 3 defense talent gives Riposte a defenses buff. It's also far more usable for Guardians than it is for Sentinels.

 

Leveling as Vigilance, the only skill I honestly have no use for is Freezing Force. So I stuck it away in a corner.

Opportune is usable on Strong enemies, as they can be immobilized but cannot be stunned.

 

Here's how my typical 3-4 weak enemy pull goes: Force leap one, Opportune Strike. Switch targets, Force Sweep, Pommel strike. If those two are not dead, Cyclone Sweep. Now they are.

Run to the third target, Sundering then masters/overhead slash & Blade storm. Dead. Last guy is either taken out by Kira, or I use whichever option I have up that I didn't use on the 3rd guy if I have doc out.

Works on Strong's with 1-2 weaks.

 

For Elites, I use Saber Throw, Force Leap as an opener.

Then I usually go Sundering, Master's Strike, Sundering, Overhead Slash Blade Storm, Sundering, Force Stasis, Sundering Overhead + Storm etc, mixing in a Strike/Force Sweep when I like.

 

The key is to arrange your bars with your abilities placed in reference to your own ease of use.

Things like Buffs, Guard, Stances, sprint toggle, you rarely need to change so stick them off in a corner out of the way.

Things like Opportune/Pommel Strike you'll only really use once a particular fight, so you don't need to have them right at your fingertips.

Abilities like Force Push and Stasis you won't use often, but against a tough enemy they may come up again, so put them a bit closer than the above.

 

Then you have your 'Don't need until you REALLY need' abilities and your 'Gonna use all the time' abilities. Stick them together, with the 'Gonna use' abilities where they're easiest to access, with the 'Don't need til really need' abilities immediatly next.

That includes Force Kick.

It's on my 2 key.

I use it as much as I can, because I've trained myself as an interrupt Monkey. I wish more people used it half as often as I do.

But that's an aside.

 

In short: Don't feel overwhelmed by the amount of abilities you've got, organize them!

 

Edit: The only time you have too many abilities, is when you literally have no more space to put them. My Guardian is at 40, and even with sticking 3 Medpacs, Might/Endurance stims and my speeder on my bars, I still have 10+ empty spaces left. (I use all 3 toggleable bars btw.)

Edited December 30, 2011 by MrYar

[aznthecapn]

Disagree on Sundering Strike. I like being able to hit more than one button at every time, and sometimes when tanking I have to use both Sundering and Strike (not Slice) to get some focus.

Slash: Have you tried Vigilance?

Force Sweep: Have you tried Vigilance?

Tier 3 defense talent gives Riposte a defenses buff. It's also far more usable for Guardians than it is for Sentinels.

 

These were my ideas for changes. I'm currently specced Vigilance.

 

In short: Don't feel overwhelmed by the amount of abilities you've got, organize them!

 

Edit: The only time you have too many abilities, is when you literally have no more space to put them. My Guardian is at 40, and even with sticking 3 Medpacs, Might/Endurance stims and my speeder on my bars, I still have 10+ empty spaces left. (I use all 3 toggleable bars btw.)

 

My abilities are quite well organized - I only rotate between quickbars if I'm changing a role (for example all my heal skills are on my Trooper's second bar). Switching back and forth mid-combat is terribly inefficient and not a good judge of a skilled player.

 

You're kind of missing the point here. Its not so much about too many abilities - its that a lot of abilities share VERY similar kit but for some reason appear separate. I mentioned Opportune Strike vs. Pommel Strike - those are prime examples of two skills that could be merged via talents. Make Pommel Strike baseline and, via talents, turn it INTO Opportune Strike. There's SO MANY skills that involve some kind of stun thought - its a little silly.

 

The other major issue is that there is no feel of flow or choice to the rotation. The only thing Vigilance guides me to do in my rotation is put Overhead Slash before Blade Flurry because the former buffs the latter. But even these two skills are virtually identical except for the stun. They even both gain a 6s DoT through talents! These are examples of how a baseline ability should be replaced by a more powerful version through talents. We need more choices as well. Procs that force us to adjust our rotation which MAKES it a priority system. As it stands, we're just monkeys pushing the first button off CD.

[Xarry]

I just use a naga, bind on that and also on the standard keyboard layout. Use both with no issues with no room for powers.

[Barburas]

So your saying you have 28 bound abilities? Why do you nee, whid that many abilities to have a class be "fun"? What happened to having a core set of abilities that could be u sed in a variety of situations and strategy coming from deciding of what ability to use in a given situation. As it is now, "in case of x, use y". Except for Stasis and Push there is almost no decision making.

 

I don't wish to be rude, but yes, easily. In wow I had around 70 keybinding (played warrior). I hope they do not reduce it as it adds complexity to the class, which as a PvPer allows me to distinguish myself from others.

[MrYar]

There's SO MANY skills that involve some kind of stun thought - its a little silly.

 

The other major issue is that there is no feel of flow or choice to the rotation. The only thing Vigilance guides me to do in my rotation is put Overhead Slash before Blade Flurry because the former buffs the latter. But even these two skills are virtually identical except for the stun. They even both gain a 6s DoT through talents! These are examples of how a baseline ability should be replaced by a more powerful version through talents. We need more choices as well. Procs that force us to adjust our rotation which MAKES it a priority system. As it stands, we're just monkeys pushing the first button off CD.

 

It is a good idea, but I don't think it's neccesary at the moment. Aside from Pommel/Opportune, there's Plasma Brand which requires Sunder, and Riposte for Guardians.

 

And there is no rotation, it's a priority system. Which is far more flexible and forgiving than a rotation. Overhead Slash is a melee attack that deals a lot of damage, increases the crit of Blades Storm and Dispatch and occasionally resets the CD on Master's strike.

Blade storm is a mid-range attack that is a Force Ability and stuns weak enemies.

 

The Reseting of Master's Strike makes the rotation into a priority system.

Opportune/Pommel,

Dispatch,

Sundering Strike

Plasma Brand,

Master's Strike,

Overhead Slash,

Blade Storm,

Force Stasis,

Force Push,

Strike.

For single target. If your first Overhead Slash doesn't reset Master's Strike, then you use Force Stasis to fill in the gap for Sundering Strike's CD to drop. If it doesn't proc a second time, then you have to use Sweep/Push/Strike to fill that gap.

Heck, you can even move Plasma Brand around there, since it can be prohibitive with it's 5 focus cost.

 

And if Enemies die in the middle of your priority system and things are on CD, you have to improvise a little before everything lines up neatly again.

 

The only ability consolation I would not mind at this point would be Opportune/Pommel strike, taking Pommel's damage and Opportune's CD/Requirements. They deal enough damage that it would be overkill to use both on the same enemy and not enough if you stick around long enough to Freezing Force and Opportune strike again rather than go through the usual attacking priority.

 

There are enough differences in every other skill that I do not believe there is enough of a need for their ability consolation.

If the game had Auto-Attack, I could see getting rid of Strike for Sundering Strike. As it is? No way!

[Sanis]

What makes the class and abilities complex and not just button mashing is the resource system. Never be maxed out, and never be below 2 focus (the low number might be different for a dps). I personaly like the way the class feels, however i am a defense guardian and that is a little different.

 

I would like to add that i have a g13, so that helps too. I just got it and have been very impressed, took some getting used to though.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Sanis

[aznthecapn]

And there is no rotation, it's a priority system.

 

I've said this already and I'm not a fan of repeating myself but for your sake, here goes. Its monkeys pressing buttons right now. That's all. There's a couple of things that guide your process but nothing to make it a defined and elegant priority system. A priority system is a rotation w/procs. That's all. Its a baseline rotation with one or more choices built in.

 

If the game had Auto-Attack, I could see getting rid of Strike for Sundering Strike. As it is? No way!

 

The point is you would talent sundering strike to a point that it could easily and effectively replace strike. You'd add a force point generated (as exists now) but also remove the cooldown. This would be a Guardian only talent and effectively eliminate redundant abilities.

[WickedJediKnight]

Bioware, please note that a good portion of the abilities given are for PvP, and are good for gaurdians who go dps route.

 

Guardians who go the DPS route? Why is that even an option? If your a Guardian you should be GUARDING a.k.a tanking. If you want DPS, roll a Sentinel. The fact that they even come close in terms of DPS is evidence that the classes are rife with imbalance and too much overlap. Since Sentinels already essentially faint if a champ looks at them hard, seems to me that Guardians need a defense buff & DPS nerf.

 

FWIW, both classes have too many abilities. I never use transcendence, wish I hadn't bothered training it. Centering is only useful for Zen, and it is an overly complicated system. Pommel strike is very situational, but TBH, seems like the business end of a Lightsaber would be the only part you'll want to hit someone with. You want kinetic damage? Put a force punch or something in there. Add medium knockback to it, and you've got a winning skill. Nobody would ever miss Pommel or Opportunistic.

 

Force Leap needs a shorter CD.

 

There are lots of ways to streamline the class while maintaining combat variety. It shouldn't ever be about the "one rotation", but currently this is just too much to manage. I've got a G13 completely filled with combat abilities, and there are still so many I need to mouse click to supplement because there are no more keys to use.

 

It's a complicated class, I don't mind, but seems like a lot of people are missing out on the "fun factor" of the class.

Edited January 2, 2012 by WickedJediKnight

[Apollonel]

we have too many abilities.

i have run out of comfortable keybinds.

macro system would help a lot.

we also have too many and too long cooldowns

 

 

 

remove cooldown on sundering strike.

might as well remove Strike too.

 

saber throw, shorten cooldown, increase agro, talented to hit multiple targets.

 

no need for multiple AoEs with cooldowns, just one without a cd.

 

reduce the cooldown of saber throw to like 10 sec.

defence-talented to hit multiple opponents and deal extra agro.

might as well remove saberstorm too.

 

remove all those crappy "only usable when stunned" or "when below 20%" and such.

[Carcarah]

PvE + macro = easy game play (FTW)

 

PvP + macro = FAIL (I'm going to faceroll you 100% of times)

 

If you want macro (I don't) why don't you use "Auto HotKey" software, you create keybinds as macros with delays and everything.

 

 

 

About the OP:

 

Why to have a PvE skill that can't be used for PvP, it is totally no sense i.e. Pommel and Opportune Strike

 

Number of abilities are fine, however, if you like easy game mode this class is not for you, it requires skill, it requires you to press at least 10 keys every fight (PvE), in a PvP WZ you are going to press at least 18-20 buttons to be effective = SKILL (your keyboard has about 100 buttons, so won't be that hard. IMO except by "M" that brings the map every other default keybind can be re addressed.

 

 

However I do agree it is very painful to kill Strong and Elite mobs, they take sooooo long. I can only play with Doc as my companion, actually I could kill every other companion because they are useless. My problem is that as Biochem he has +10 crit but I can't use him for crafting.

 

Concluding:

- Increase dmg

- Improve companions

- Remove PvE only skills

[Dcayd]

Guardians who go the DPS route? Why is that even an option? If your a Guardian you should be GUARDING a.k.a tanking.

 

IKR? And whats the deal with Smugglers doing dps? Shouldn't they spend the entire game sneaking past authorities with contraband? And why can Inquisitors do anything but question and torture people? Why can Assassin's tank and Scoundrel's heal?

 

The AC name has nothing to do with the class roles. Guardians have 2 dps trees and just to show how much water your argument doesn't hold, Guardian's mirror is the Juggernaut. Nothing about their name implies they should only guard.

 

Or, if you really want to be nit picky, I'm sure there would be plenty of Guardians within the Jedi Order who feel the best defense is a good offense.

 

The class definitely needs some refinement, but I think its hard to truly judge where we are at until we get some combat logs or the Devs chime in.

 

 

PvE + macro = easy game play (FTW)

 

PvP + macro = FAIL (I'm going to faceroll you 100% of times)

 

If you want macro (I don't) why don't you use "Auto HotKey" software, you create keybinds as macros with delays and everything.

 

 

 

About the OP:

 

Why to have a PvE skill that can't be used for PvP, it is totally no sense i.e. Pommel and Opportune Strike

 

Number of abilities are fine, however, if you like easy game mode this class is not for you, it requires skill, it requires you to press at least 10 keys every fight (PvE), in a PvP WZ you are going to press at least 18-20 buttons to be effective = SKILL (your keyboard has about 100 buttons, so won't be that hard. IMO except by "M" that brings the map every other default keybind can be re addressed.

 

What's the point of having so many abilities and having to play the class at 100% if another class can do everything we do, but better and at 50%? That other 50% doesn't just vanish. Instead, while we're having to invest into our class 100% just to get it to perform decently others are playing at 50% and using the other 50% to play the meta game we can't even approach because we have to juggle "18-20 buttons to be effective."

 

And for the record, more abilities =|= skill. Skill is using what abilities you do have smartly and at the most opportune time. It's knowing what abilities counter your enemies and what abilities or yours they can counter. Having Force Charge doesn't make you skilled. Knowing that using it to attack that Sorc who'll probably just use Overload to knock you away and either position yourself in such a way to negate it or using a different opener is where the skill lies.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Dcayd

[DuceHason]

I must be a '1%'er'. I love the way my Jedi Knight Guardian is playing out! Level 36, yeah theres a lot of skills, but it gives choices. I am running all 4 toolbars and have my key binding system setup so it flows like a wave in the ocean. Smooth as silk. IF I fall in combat I am able to pick up and get back on the horse and it is very rare I am able to fall twice.

 

Cool downs do need to be addressed, yes I will give that. But as far as too many skills or abilities? No it gives players options.

 

I got a friend that is having a heck of a time with JKG however, but because a few people aren't able to grasp a class does not mean it needs to be revamped for the few. If you can't get the concept or the abilities, than the class is most likely NOT meant for you. Try something else.

[MichellMich]

So my guardian is level 35 and I have a LOT of skills. None of them indicate that they are replaced by skills in the talent tree but I'm not seeing how I can even KEYBIND all my skills, much less find room for them in my rotation for tanking or DPS.

 

Are there any skills that are clearly intended to be replaced by a better version in your talent tree? What skills are you using to tank with? Here's how I see most of them...

 

Slice - standard Focus build

Slash - standard Focus dump

Sundering Strike - debuff, strong Focus build

Guardian Slash - debuff, strong threat attack

Hilt Strike - stun, strong threat attack

Cyclone Slash - AoE focus dump

Force Sweep - AoE, strong attack

Riposte - off GCD threat, defensive boost via talents

Blade Storm - strong attack

Master Strike - channeled, high damage

Pommel Strike - damage against stunned enemies

Opportune Strike - damage against slowed enemies

 

As you can see, speccing JUST defense as a Guardian the number of skills you get is really out of hand. Do any of these overlap somehow? I'm thinking Pommel and Opportune are for PvP but did we really need two different versions of this skill? Could we not, via talents, have brought Force Sweep to be in line wit Cyclone Slash instead of having two skills? Here's how I'd prefer to see it work...

 

Sundering Strike replaces Slice entirely. No CD, builds 2 focus (via talents).

Guardian Slash is your primary, CD based threat builder.

Slash is your focus dump when everthing is on CD and you're overloaded on focus.

Hilt Strike is high threat or stun, as it is now.

Force Sweep retains loses SOME damage but its CD and cost is reduced (via talents). Give it a 6s CD and free to use.

Riposte is my favorite skill. Usable off CD, provides a defensive barrier when used encouraging you to use it often.

 

Everything else is retooled either for DPS or PvP.

 

Here Here!

 

I can't stand the fact that Pommel and Opportune Strike are totally useless against Champions and Bosses. Why even have them then? If there's one thing the MMO market learned a long time ago, it's that severely restrictive abilities aren't really worth having in the first place.

Edited January 3, 2012 by MichellMich

[sippelmc]

I just take the redundant and/or not so great stuff off my bar completely and focus on the best skills. I don't use Pommel or Opportune or Freezing. Never really miss them and my philosophy is if it doesn't work on a boss I don't generally need it. If I need to "CC" a normal I will usually just use master strike since it incapacitates + kills them generally. I don't use Slice and always have focus to spend, so that is off too. I rotate 1234 on Sundering, Slash, Riposte and Blade Storm, mostly, on priority basis. I also now really like Blade Storm for the damage absorb.

 

Level 38 right now and never had any of the troubles leveling up and it keeps getting better and better.

 

One of the keys I found is that with all my stuns (stasis, hilt strike, master strike, sweep, etc) and absorbs (riposte/blade storm barriers) I can usually walk away from a trash fight with practically no health lost.

 

I use Kira still and find that Doc is only good for soloing heroics.

 

Looking forward to the next few attacks coming up like Guardian Slash but I agree I don't know how that will fit in!

 

So my guardian is level 35 and I have a LOT of skills. None of them indicate that they are replaced by skills in the talent tree but I'm not seeing how I can even KEYBIND all my skills, much less find room for them in my rotation for tanking or DPS.

 

Are there any skills that are clearly intended to be replaced by a better version in your talent tree? What skills are you using to tank with? Here's how I see most of them...

 

Slice - standard Focus build

Slash - standard Focus dump

Sundering Strike - debuff, strong Focus build

Guardian Slash - debuff, strong threat attack

Hilt Strike - stun, strong threat attack

Cyclone Slash - AoE focus dump

Force Sweep - AoE, strong attack

Riposte - off GCD threat, defensive boost via talents

Blade Storm - strong attack

Master Strike - channeled, high damage

Pommel Strike - damage against stunned enemies

Opportune Strike - damage against slowed enemies

 

As you can see, speccing JUST defense as a Guardian the number of skills you get is really out of hand. Do any of these overlap somehow? I'm thinking Pommel and Opportune are for PvP but did we really need two different versions of this skill? Could we not, via talents, have brought Force Sweep to be in line wit Cyclone Slash instead of having two skills? Here's how I'd prefer to see it work...

 

Sundering Strike replaces Slice entirely. No CD, builds 2 focus (via talents).

Guardian Slash is your primary, CD based threat builder.

Slash is your focus dump when everthing is on CD and you're overloaded on focus.

Hilt Strike is high threat or stun, as it is now.

Force Sweep retains loses SOME damage but its CD and cost is reduced (via talents). Give it a 6s CD and free to use.

Riposte is my favorite skill. Usable off CD, provides a defensive barrier when used encouraging you to use it often.

 

Everything else is retooled either for DPS or PvP.

[Sixball]

First thing that pops out in this thread is how a majority of replies are indicating that they're binding every single skill to something - thats just plain ridiculous

 

WoW veteran here (Vanilla through LK), and had one set of bars / binds for Raids/PVE , another for PVP / BGs - Same concept applies here

 

There is no need to bind 100% of your skills, as not all of them are viable in ALL situations. Stuns on bosses / champs? not gunna happen, so skills that rely on those are pointless in PVE (Usefull in PVP however)

 

Prioritize your skills / bars / binds to what youre doing (PVE / PVP) Speaking as a Lvl 42 JG, there is plenty of room for the important, high damage, useful skills we have...

 

(Do we need to streamline some of the redundant ones? sure, why not? )

[Andronicos]

I must be a '1%'er'. I love the way my Jedi Knight Guardian is playing out! Level 36, yeah theres a lot of skills, but it gives choices. I am running all 4 toolbars and have my key binding system setup so it flows like a wave in the ocean. Smooth as silk. IF I fall in combat I am able to pick up and get back on the horse and it is very rare I am able to fall twice.

 

Cool downs do need to be addressed, yes I will give that. But as far as too many skills or abilities? No it gives players options.

 

I got a friend that is having a heck of a time with JKG however, but because a few people aren't able to grasp a class does not mean it needs to be revamped for the few. If you can't get the concept or the abilities, than the class is most likely NOT meant for you. Try something else.

 

This is my experience as well I'm loving the fact that rather than spamming stuff I have to keep an eye on what is coming off cooldown and make sure I have enough focus to use it as soon as it is ready, it makes the combat feel more dynamic IMO rather than just spamming 12345, 12345, interrupt, 12345...etc

[Branthalas]

Simply removing the cooldown for Sundering Strike would go a very long way towards fixing the Guardian flow. We're already managing a dozen different focus spending cooldowns with a UI that gives us no great way to keep track of them. The addition of a 4.5 second cooldown on our main focus builder is more annoying than fun/interesting gameplay.

 

My other main complaint is that some of our biggest hitters (Pommel Strike and Opportune Strike) simply aren't usable on elites which tend to be when they'd be the most helpful. The general feel is that they're there to lull us into a sense of power that we don't really have when it matters.

[Hbound]

First thing that pops out in this thread is how a majority of replies are indicating that they're binding every single skill to something - thats just plain ridiculous

 

WoW veteran here (Vanilla through LK), and had one set of bars / binds for Raids/PVE , another for PVP / BGs - Same concept applies here

 

There is no need to bind 100% of your skills, as not all of them are viable in ALL situations. Stuns on bosses / champs? not gunna happen, so skills that rely on those are pointless in PVE (Usefull in PVP however)

 

Prioritize your skills / bars / binds to what youre doing (PVE / PVP) Speaking as a Lvl 42 JG, there is plenty of room for the important, high damage, useful skills we have...

 

(Do we need to streamline some of the redundant ones? sure, why not? )

 

Yes, I have keybound every single ability except for Forms, Buffs, Fast Travel, and Introspection. Every other ability is easy to access on the left side of my keyboard.

 

Ironically, the skills that rely on stuns (Pommel/Opportune Strike) are unusable in PvP. They are viable in PvE you just have to know when you can use them and what they are useful for.

 

There is no way you can fit all of the useful Guardian abilities onto one bar. It's just not possible.

 

Realistically, I would like to see these changes made in order to slim down the ability bloat we're currently experiencing:

 

1) Make Sundering Strike replace Strike. This has been said before but bears repeating. Take the cooldown off of it and be done with it.

 

2) Combine Opportune Strike and Pommel Strike into one ability that is usable on any immobilized/incapacitated/stunned target. Mess with the cooldown if you have to in order to make it balanced.

 

3) Implement the macro system! So much of what people are currently complaining about could be avoided if they could bind Force Leap/Zealous Leap/Guardian Leap to the same key with different modifiers. Or if they could bind Hilt Strike/Pommel Strike/Opportune Strike to the same key with different modifiers. It really adds a whole new level of utility to skills.

[Sixball]

Realistically, I would like to see these changes made in order to slim down the ability bloat we're currently experiencing:

 

1) Make Sundering Strike replace Strike. This has been said before but bears repeating. Take the cooldown off of it and be done with it.

 

2) Combine Opportune Strike and Pommel Strike into one ability that is usable on any immobilized/incapacitated/stunned target. Mess with the cooldown if you have to in order to make it balanced.

 

3) Implement the macro system! So much of what people are currently complaining about could be avoided if they could bind Force Leap/Zealous Leap/Guardian Leap to the same key with different modifiers. Or if they could bind Hilt Strike/Pommel Strike/Opportune Strike to the same key with different modifiers. It really adds a whole new level of utility to skills.

 

/agree -

[junavatar]

 

How are we using our brains right now? We aren't. We're monkeys mashing keys as they come off CD. Where's the choice? Where's the challenge? Where's the synergy?

 

 

Agreed. Plus, I find that I am most of the time looking down at the skill bar and not in the action that is taking place on the screen.

 

I also think that there are too many skills to keybind and there should be synergy between them.

[EternalFinality]

I keep getting new abilities and I have no practical place to put them on my bars. It's getting tiring.

 

And yes there's too many redundant skills.

[Zocat]

Only ability which I havent really used is Opportune Strike.

Always thought it would be a PvP ability but then learned you cannot use it against other players.

Might be useful though when coordinating with friends (who can provide the needed state easy). Dont know.

 

Everything else seems fine to me - and I'm having a blast with the number of abilities. Being restricted to 3-5 abilities (plus situational abilities like taunts / defensive cooldowns) is not fun to me.

[Jpope]

I can help you get rid of some of the useless abilities. Pommel Strike and Opportune Strike take them off your bars right now. I just opened two slots for you to put other stuff into your rotation.

 

I have played for about 10 days in game and I'm level 50. I've only tried either of those attacks once and it was to make sure they weren't bugged. They would be so powerful if I could use them they have similar damage output to Dispatch which is our execute. I'd say the only way to make those two skills useful is to make them throws.

[SentinelBorg]

Removing the cooldown of Sundering Strike would really help the class a lot.

 

Opportune Strike and Pommel Strike are strange abilities. While I use them a lot in solo PvE, I still would not miss them if they removed them.

 

My current key setup as a Vigilance Guardian:

• 1 = Sundering Strike
  
• 2 = Strike
  
• 3 = Overhead Slash
  
• 4 = Riposte
  
• 5 = Plasma Brand
  
• 6 = Blade Storm
  
• 7 = Master Strike
  
• Shift-1 = Opportune Strike
  
• Shift-2 = Dispatch
  
• Shift-3 = Cyclone Slash
  
• Shift-4 = Force Sweep
  
• Shift-5 = Pommel Strike
  
• Q = Force Kick
  
• Shift-Q = Force Push
  
• C = Resolute
  
• Shift-C = Awe
  
• F = Freezing Force
  
• Shift-F = Force Stasis
  
• S = Force Leap
  
• Shift-S = Guardian Leap
  
• Tab = Saber Throw
  
• Shift-Tab = Slash (almost never used)
  
• B = Combat Focus
  
• Shift-B = Guard
  
• V = Speeder
  
• Shift-V = Reg Ability
  
• X = Shiien Form
  
• Shift-X = Soresu Form
  
• F1 = Taunt
  
• F2 = Challenging Call
  
• F3 = Saber Ward
  
• F4 = Enure
  
• F5 = Medpack
  
• T = Adrenal
  
• G = Relic
  
• Space = Move back
  
• E = Nearest enemy
  
• Shift-E = Nearest ally
  
• R = Next enemy
  
• Shift-R = Next ally
  

Usual tactic in PvE vs. a group of 2 normal and 1 strong mob: Leap at first normal -> Opportune Strike -> Force Sweep -> Switch to second normal -> Pommel Strike -> Switch to strong -> Sundering Strike and so on ...