To all the people who say premades are ruining pvp ...

[phalczen]

The experiment is over, unexpectedly

[sithBracer]

The experiment is over, unexpectedly

 

I guess it's back to queueing with all the "pros" who constantly queue 2 jugg skanks and sorc healer.

[phalczen]

The new map relies on maneuvering buffs and controlling nodes which can be done with less fighting than the other PVP maps. The contests probably are more competitive due to how the map is played, for better or worse not due to whether premades are grouped or not.

 

I appreciate the sentiment from lots of folks in the thread on both sides of the debate. My only response to Lance's specific comment here, is that the consequences of unintentionally "removing" premades is not limited to OPG, even though it is the most frequent one to pop for all the non bug reasons outlined. In fact, we should have also observed an effect on Arenas, since they will also be likely to pop given the low players-in-queue requirement. I have not seen many replies on this aspect. Now that the pseudo-experiment is over, we will see premades again, and given that we had no idea this bugfix was coming, I wonder how the dynamic will change.

 

I want to re-iterate that the ground game is no different than GSF, or even story mode ops, in this respect.

 

On a fundamental level, when I group together with 7 of my guildmates, all of us on voice comms, and we queue for a story mode operation via group finder, won't the content be easier than 8 randoms matched through group finder? Are we not in a "premade"? Is this really any different from Lance grouping with 3 of his guildmates to queue up for warzones? Or SRW queuing as a team to play GSF? A team that is working in a coordinated fashion should have better outcomes than random people thrown together who aren't making any effort to talk to one another. Think about all those pug flashpoints where people just started pulling mobs and didn't talk about CC'ing anything or whatever. To all the premade haters, do you really think you should fare as well against people who talk to one another? Fairness in pvp should be about the bugs and exploits, not about whether groups working together are equally effective as individuals doing their own thing. (I won't get into class balance, because I'm not an expert and I think its neither possible nor necessary to balance the game such that every advanced class has a chance against every other advanced class in a 1v1 matchup)

 

I empathize and sympathize with the crushed feeling when I've faced and lost to an obvious premade, regardless if it is the ground or the space game. But I don't think the answer is to nerf premades, because I shudder to think about the prospect of further ostracizing group play in the post KOTFE world.

 

What I think, is that there could be different rewards for solo-queuing (I'm talking about unranked of course). Just like in the ground heroics, where xp earned is lower because the content is easier when grouped (or, at least it used to be prior to 4.0), perhaps the commendation payout per match could be higher if you were solo. Maybe you get 1.5-2x the comms if you were queued solo. At least this dangles a carrot in front of people that they can get their gear goals a little faster. Perhaps people won't be as frustrated if they know they will be in a better gear situation sooner? Speaking for myself, I know six straight defeats will be a bit more palatable if I can have a 208 piece by the end of the day. People who queue as a group will be getting more comms by the nature of having more wins, and in general, when you win, you're probably more likely to keep playing because its more satisfying. Again, in general that's true. Maybe increase the credit rewards too, so that those solo people can afford the costs of augments, or the purchase price of legacy gear to send pvp gear to their alts? Add solo-unranked-queue achievements with legacy titles and/or decorations? I'm just throwing some ideas out there, I'm sure none of them are new. But in general, destroying group play isn't the answer.

[DsevenO]

I guess it's back to queueing with all the "pros" who constantly queue 2 jugg skanks and sorc healer.

 

If the juggs were wearing the default defense/absorb laden gear, would that them make more "pro"?

[kweassa]

I appreciate the sentiment from lots of folks in the thread on both sides of the debate. My only response to Lance's specific comment here, is that the consequences of unintentionally "removing" premades is not limited to OPG, even though it is the most frequent one to pop for all the non bug reasons outlined. In fact, we should have also observed an effect on Arenas, since they will also be likely to pop given the low players-in-queue requirement. I have not seen many replies on this aspect. Now that the pseudo-experiment is over, we will see premades again, and given that we had no idea this bugfix was coming, I wonder how the dynamic will change.

 

I want to re-iterate that the ground game is no different than GSF, or even story mode ops, in this respect.

 

On a fundamental level, when I group together with 7 of my guildmates, all of us on voice comms, and we queue for a story mode operation via group finder, won't the content be easier than 8 randoms matched through group finder? Are we not in a "premade"? Is this really any different from Lance grouping with 3 of his guildmates to queue up for warzones? Or SRW queuing as a team to play GSF? A team that is working in a coordinated fashion should have better outcomes than random people thrown together who aren't making any effort to talk to one another. Think about all those pug flashpoints where people just started pulling mobs and didn't talk about CC'ing anything or whatever. To all the premade haters, do you really think you should fare as well against people who talk to one another? Fairness in pvp should be about the bugs and exploits, not about whether groups working together are equally effective as individuals doing their own thing. (I won't get into class balance, because I'm not an expert and I think its neither possible nor necessary to balance the game such that every advanced class has a chance against every other advanced class in a 1v1 matchup)

 

I empathize and sympathize with the crushed feeling when I've faced and lost to an obvious premade, regardless if it is the ground or the space game. But I don't think the answer is to nerf premades, because I shudder to think about the prospect of further ostracizing group play in the post KOTFE world.

 

What I think, is that there could be different rewards for solo-queuing (I'm talking about unranked of course). Just like in the ground heroics, where xp earned is lower because the content is easier when grouped (or, at least it used to be prior to 4.0), perhaps the commendation payout per match could be higher if you were solo. Maybe you get 1.5-2x the comms if you were queued solo. At least this dangles a carrot in front of people that they can get their gear goals a little faster. Perhaps people won't be as frustrated if they know they will be in a better gear situation sooner? Speaking for myself, I know six straight defeats will be a bit more palatable if I can have a 208 piece by the end of the day. People who queue as a group will be getting more comms by the nature of having more wins, and in general, when you win, you're probably more likely to keep playing because its more satisfying. Again, in general that's true. Maybe increase the credit rewards too, so that those solo people can afford the costs of augments, or the purchase price of legacy gear to send pvp gear to their alts? Add solo-unranked-queue achievements with legacy titles and/or decorations? I'm just throwing some ideas out there, I'm sure none of them are new. But in general, destroying group play isn't the answer.

 

Again, to the above load of krap, I give you the "playground analogy"

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's a playground here. Kids play all sort of games, but usually baseball. It's an open playground, so whenever kids play ball, kids make teams on the spot to have fun.

 

Right next to this playground, is a baseball ground used exclusively by the local little league team. Of course, unlike how kids flock to the playground everyday, the little league has fewer matches in total, so a lot of the times when there's no upcoming match or training, they get bored, so they decide to crash the playground.

 

The little leaguers come to the playground, and want to join the casual baseball everybody is enjoying. But there's a problem. They come in certain numbers, and they refuse to break up the team. They insist they'll only play with their teammates. So the kids try a few matches throughout the week,

 

As expectedly, the playground kids are utterly crushed. The little league kids are trained as a unit from the beginning. The kids at the playground were never up to that level in the first place, nor did they even wish to compete with such people in the first place.

 

So after a while, the playground kids protest. "Break up the teams guys. Break it up so you little league guys can be mixed in with other kids so there's fair share of good players."

 

Then the little league kids refuse. "No. We're all friends here. Besides, we all trained together, so we know this is more competitive. Why should it be us who breaks up teams? It's not our fault we're good. IT'S YOUR FAULT THAT YOU DIDN'T MAKE TEAMS LIKE US."

 

...the playground kids decide there's no talking to the selfish idiots, and just decide to never play ball with them ever again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

See, that's basically what's happening in unranked reg WZs. It's none of your concern, or business, why people like us don't make teams. We each have different reasons. Besides, whether we make teams or not is not even the point in the first place, because if the general rule of "fair teaming" was applied in the first place, we wouldn't even be meeting premades in the first place.

 

The difference between the "playground" above, and SWTOR, is that unlike in real life, we aren't given any choice.

 

In our version of the 'playground' we have here, the SYSTEM FORCES US to be matched up with premades whether we like it or not. Nobody wants that in the first place. It wasn't "voluntary". We just have no other alternative but to walk into that krap. Either that, or not play PvP at all. If using the above analogy, it's like the kids' teacher was passing by the playground, saw the kids arguing, and then just says, "Now now, be nice boys. Don't fight. Just go to the playground and you all play a game together." But teacher! That's why the kids were fighting in the first place.

 

...

 

Rule number one of any competitive game that has teams -- even out the teams. Randomness with solo queuers teaming guarantees this fairness. "Premades" start off in the first place by breaking this rule.

 

So, like have been said so many times, us solo-queuers don't really give a shi* why you make premades -- so long as you use all that 'competitive nature' or 'communication' or 'more organization' to play against others who are willing to fight against such odds.

 

I can bet both my nuts most solo queuers across the servers, would not hesitate to press the "f***k 'em. I don't wanna play against premades. I just wanna play against same soloers" button every time, if such an option existed in the first place. (And for some sheer stroke of luck, people had the system doing that for them during the last couple of weeks... and we thoroughlu enjoed it)

 

 

So don't force solo queuers to fight against premades, because we really don't want to. You like premades and competition and higher level of PvP? Fine by us. Support the separation. Premades get what they want, soloers get what they want. Think about it -- if premade players justify themselves on grounds of wanting better PvP experience, playing with friends.. and all that, then there's no friggin' reason ever, that they should refuse to splitting the queues.

 

Premades are fine, so long as they face people who are same premades. Us soloers are not matched against premades because we like it or want it -- its only because the game never gave us a choice but to either risk that unfairness, or not play PvP at all.

 

People have a choice to make premades? Fine by me.

 

THEN GIVE OTHERS THE CHOICE TO NOT PLAY AGAINST THOSE PREMADES, and we're all good.

Edited April 20, 2016 by kweassa

[Teriaon]

that would be a great option, if the game had a high enough population to support it, but it most likly dosent and all you would end up getting is people syncing their ques and just leaving any matches where they werent lucky enough to get matched up with their friends, it would solve nothing and it would just make it take even longer to pop

[Icykill_]

Edit wrong post Edited April 20, 2016 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

I appreciate the sentiment from lots of folks in the thread on both sides of the debate. My only response to Lance's specific comment here, is that the consequences of unintentionally "removing" premades is not limited to OPG, even though it is the most frequent one to pop for all the non bug reasons outlined. In fact, we should have also observed an effect on Arenas, since they will also be likely to pop given the low players-in-queue requirement. I have not seen many replies on this aspect. Now that the pseudo-experiment is over, we will see premades again, and given that we had no idea this bugfix was coming, I wonder how the dynamic will change.

 

I want to re-iterate that the ground game is no different than GSF, or even story mode ops, in this respect.

 

On a fundamental level, when I group together with 7 of my guildmates, all of us on voice comms, and we queue for a story mode operation via group finder, won't the content be easier than 8 randoms matched through group finder? Are we not in a "premade"? Is this really any different from Lance grouping with 3 of his guildmates to queue up for warzones? Or SRW queuing as a team to play GSF? A team that is working in a coordinated fashion should have better outcomes than random people thrown together who aren't making any effort to talk to one another. Think about all those pug flashpoints where people just started pulling mobs and didn't talk about CC'ing anything or whatever. To all the premade haters, do you really think you should fare as well against people who talk to one another? Fairness in pvp should be about the bugs and exploits, not about whether groups working together are equally effective as individuals doing their own thing. (I won't get into class balance, because I'm not an expert and I think its neither possible nor necessary to balance the game such that every advanced class has a chance against every other advanced class in a 1v1 matchup)

 

I empathize and sympathize with the crushed feeling when I've faced and lost to an obvious premade, regardless if it is the ground or the space game. But I don't think the answer is to nerf premades, because I shudder to think about the prospect of further ostracizing group play in the post KOTFE world.

 

What I think, is that there could be different rewards for solo-queuing (I'm talking about unranked of course). Just like in the ground heroics, where xp earned is lower because the content is easier when grouped (or, at least it used to be prior to 4.0), perhaps the commendation payout per match could be higher if you were solo. Maybe you get 1.5-2x the comms if you were queued solo. At least this dangles a carrot in front of people that they can get their gear goals a little faster. Perhaps people won't be as frustrated if they know they will be in a better gear situation sooner? Speaking for myself, I know six straight defeats will be a bit more palatable if I can have a 208 piece by the end of the day. People who queue as a group will be getting more comms by the nature of having more wins, and in general, when you win, you're probably more likely to keep playing because its more satisfying. Again, in general that's true. Maybe increase the credit rewards too, so that those solo people can afford the costs of augments, or the purchase price of legacy gear to send pvp gear to their alts? Add solo-unranked-queue achievements with legacy titles and/or decorations? I'm just throwing some ideas out there, I'm sure none of them are new. But in general, destroying group play isn't the answer.

 

I support your conclusions and your logic on this matter. 😍😍 It's good to see other people can see the bigger picture of what a group designed multiplayer game is supposed to feel like. The way bio are moving forward with story mode, the last thing we need is for them to nerf any group options in the game.

[-Bob-]

Premades are ruining PVP

[Icykill_]

Premades are ruining PVP

 

Under skilled players are ruining PVP. It's PVE people who are being coerced or forced by the DEVS to PVP to get conquest points or companions that have watered down the skill lvl in PVP. Most dont even want to be there and don't take it seriously.

They think that all they need is their ranked PVP gear and they should be PVP gods like they are in PVE. Well the problem with that is PVP is much more dynamic, you are playing people, not the computer generated mobs who have to follow a certain pattern. Those patterns are learnable and once you know them you can always beat them. That is why PVE "only" people will never have the skill lvl as PVP only people.

Pvpers can watch a few YouTube videos of operations and then go in and blitz it. Sure they may wipe a few times, but it won't take long to learn the required tactic and where to stand. PVE is extremely easy for pvpers, but PVP is much harder for PVE people.

They normally don't know other classes, don't know how to counter them, have slow reflexes, only know how to do full rotations and not priorities, are sheep and follow the crowd, don't know tactics or bother thinking outside the square because that's fround on in PVE operations.

Will they learn over time? Sure they will if they take it as seriously as they take operations and practice. But most won't, there lies the problem of why they are ruining PVP.

Premades or even 2-3 man groups are the only way pvpers know they are getting proper pvpers on their teams and not a bunch of PVE people who don't give a sh*t.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Icykill_

[foxmob]

Under skilled players are ruining PVP. It's PVE people who are being coerced or forced by the DEVS to PVP to get conquest points or companions that have watered down the skill lvl in PVP. Most dont even want to be there and don't take it seriously.

They think that all they need is their ranked PVP gear and they should be PVP gods like they are in PVE. Well the problem with that is PVP is much more dynamic, you are playing people, not the computer generated mobs who have to follow a certain pattern. Those patterns are learnable and once you know them you can always beat them. That is why PVE "only" people will never have the skill lvl as PVP only people.

Pvpers can watch a few YouTube videos of operations and then go in and blitz it. Sure they may wipe a few times, but it won't take long to learn the required tactic and where to stand. PVE is extremely easy for pvpers, but PVP is much harder for PVE people.

They normally don't know other classes, don't know how to counter them, have slow reflexes, only know how to do full rotations and not priorities, are sheep and follow the crowd, don't know tactics or bother thinking outside the square because that's fround on in PVE operations.

Will they learn over time? Sure they will if they take it as seriously as they take operations and practice. But most won't, there lies the problem of why they are ruining PVP.

Premades or even 2-3 man groups are the only way pvpers know they are getting proper pvpers on their teams and not a bunch of PVE people who don't give a sh*t.

at what point in this dissertation did you realize that you took the lure and there's now a hook in your mouth?

[Floplag]

Under skilled players are ruining PVP. It's PVE people who are being coerced or forced by the DEVS to PVP to get conquest points or companions that have watered down the skill lvl in PVP. Most dont even want to be there and don't take it seriously.

.

 

You simply cannot say theis when talking about regs... im sorry but you are wrong.

There has to be a starting point, ive said this many times, for people to try PvP or do the other things you mention in your post, and in this game thats regs, period.

Dont like it, play ranked. Just as you tell us solo players to suck it up and group up or get friends or whatever other catch phrase you want to use, the same is true for you in regs.

It is 100% acceptable for a player to queue regs without pvp gear or to get conquest points or heck just try it for S&Gs... its part of the game.

Some of you are taking regs far too seriously if you think people should have full expertise or whatever at this level, its simply not realistic. You want all that go queue ranked, period

[Lhancelot]

You simply cannot say theis when talking about regs... im sorry but you are wrong.

There has to be a starting point, ive said this many times, for people to try PvP or do the other things you mention in your post, and in this game thats regs, period.

Dont like it, play ranked. Just as you tell us solo players to suck it up and group up or get friends or whatever other catch phrase you want to use, the same is true for you in regs.

It is 100% acceptable for a player to queue regs without pvp gear or to get conquest points or heck just try it for S&Gs... its part of the game.

Some of you are taking regs far too seriously if you think people should have full expertise or whatever at this level, its simply not realistic. You want all that go queue ranked, period

 

What I find funny is how everyone blames the players for the system. "It's you guys taking regs too seriously!" "No, it's you losers who solo queue and wear PVE gears in regs that make PVP awful!"

 

It's the ridiculous system and how teams are mashed together for regs. With solo queuers, pve-geared players, hardcore premade groups all put into the same queue to PVP one another, is it really the fault of the players?

 

If we are on a race track that has potholes and ditches all over it, and one car avoids hitting a pothole, and swerves into another car, is the wreck the fault of the driver? I think it's the track and who created the awful track that's more at fault tbh.

[Floplag]

What I find funny is how everyone blames the players for the system. "It's you guys taking regs too seriously!" "No, it's you losers who solo queue and wear PVE gears in regs that make PVP awful!"

 

It's the ridiculous system and how teams are mashed together for regs. With solo queuers, pve-geared players, hardcore premade groups all put into the same queue to PVP one another, is it really the fault of the players?

 

If we are on a race track that has potholes and ditches all over it, and one car avoids hitting a pothole, and swerves into another car, is the wreck the fault of the driver? I think it's the track and who created the awful track that's more at fault tbh.

 

This is no different than any other game that has seperate gear for pvp... every one ive ever played has the issue of under geared players taking part at entry level play. This is required by definition as one generally must pvp to get pvp gear. Regs are starter level pvp in this game, period.

 

Expecting people to be in regs geared for ranked is simply not a realistic or defensible position. Its like PvE raiders expecting people to be geared for NM to do HM, its ludicrous really.

 

The so-called Hardcore premade teams are actually kinda laughable to me. If they were that good, that "hardcore", they would not be in regs. You want people in full min/max gear all the time you go play ranks where that expectation is valid.

 

I think this is a case of wanting to have that cake and eat it too... people dont want to do ranked for various reasons yet expect ranked level play in regs, its not logical folks, it really isnt. Regs will always have a percentage of new or under geared players, always. Expecting otherwise is .. well it just isnt logical in any form.

[Ruhun]

This is no different than any other game that has seperate gear for pvp... every one ive ever played has the issue of under geared players taking part at entry level play. This is required by definition as one generally must pvp to get pvp gear. Regs are starter level pvp in this game, period.

 

Expecting people to be in regs geared for ranked is simply not a realistic or defensible position. Its like PvE raiders expecting people to be geared for NM to do HM, its ludicrous really.

 

The so-called Hardcore premade teams are actually kinda laughable to me. If they were that good, that "hardcore", they would not be in regs. You want people in full min/max gear all the time you go play ranks where that expectation is valid.

 

I think this is a case of wanting to have that cake and eat it too... people dont want to do ranked for various reasons yet expect ranked level play in regs, its not logical folks, it really isnt. Regs will always have a percentage of new or under geared players, always. Expecting otherwise is .. well it just isnt logical in any form.

 

Ranked is only arenas though, so if you want to play some Civil War or Voidstar you have to queue regs.

People expect effort, not necessarily skill, and that's something a lot of PvE players lack. They simply don't care, they are in it for companions or conquest and will sit out the match.

[Floplag]

Ranked is only arenas though, so if you want to play some Civil War or Voidstar you have to queue regs.

People expect effort, not necessarily skill, and that's something a lot of PvE players lack. They simply don't care, they are in it for companions or conquest and will sit out the match.

 

All true, but its your expectation thats wrong... or at least AS wrong, as their play.

The game pushes them into it, which is actually a good thing as its a chance to build new players but instead of shart all over them as fast as possible to scapegoat them for the loss.

 

How do you know what effort that player will give by leaving before the match even starts? IF that player phones it in fine... i get it, but still it inst unheard of to politely remind them that it matters to others or help them improve. No player unfamiliar with pvp is going to put in an effort you would approve of anyway out of lack of experience, and god knows noones bothering to help them much.

 

I've intentionally stayed in matches like this to try to help those players knowing im about the get a beating while the so called better players run like mad from having one undergeared guy in the match yet want to tell me how balanced premades are. I've seen an entire guild premade leave a match over one guy that was like 1-2 pieces away from full pvp... and they wonder why i have zero respect for them. (no, i wont name names, it doesnt matter)

 

Now, i get the point on wanting to play other maps... and thats completely true, but you have to manage your expectation by taking that step back.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Floplag

[Ruhun]

All true, but its your expectation thats wrong... or at least AS wrong, as their play.

The game pushes them into it, which is actually a good thing as its a chance to build new players but instead of shart all over them as fast as possible to scapegoat them for the loss.

 

How do you know what effort that player will give by leaving before the match even starts? IF that player phones it in fine... i get it, but still it inst unheard of to politely remind them that it matters to others or help them improve. No player unfamiliar with pvp is going to put in an effort you would approve of anyway out of lack of experience, and god knows noones bothering to help them much.

 

I've intentionally stayed in matches like this to try to help those players knowing im about the get a beating while the so called better players run like mad from having one undergeared guy in the match yet want to tell me how balanced premades are. I've seen an entire guild premade leave a match over one guy that was like 1-2 pieces away from full pvp... and they wonder why i have zero respect for them. (no, i wont name names, it doesnt matter)

 

Now, i get the point on wanting to play other maps... and thats completely true, but you have to manage your expectation by taking that step back.

 

I see them do it, add them to my friend list and if I'm feeling particularly sick of their behavior that day I drop the match. That's a very rare day, since we still win 7/6 v 8 when I'm in a premade group anyway.

 

They stealth (if they are stealth) off node and watch the match from afar. They get no medals but it's one less match they have to do for companions/conquest. They do it in arenas and in 8v8s.

 

Also don't get me wrong, I don't **** on players or trash talk. It just becomes extremely frustrating to see these types ruin matches over and over.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Ruhun

[sithBracer]

All true, but its your expectation thats wrong... or at least AS wrong, as their play.

The game pushes them into it, which is actually a good thing as its a chance to build new players but instead of shart all over them as fast as possible to scapegoat them for the loss.

 

Gear is cheap, guides for wzs are available everywhere and the procs are currently very easily visible, there is absolutely no excuse for playing horribly. You don't have to be elite, but at 65 you have to at least be somewhat decent.

 

For for example this morning, one guy got a double points mod, held it on a node we captured for an entire round (even though we kept telling him to activate it), got killed, lost the mod and let the enemy get double points next round. Then after that he took another mod and kept it for another round without activating it on a node we captured. We lost by 20 points. There is absolutely no excuse for such horrible play. Before starting the new wz I took 10 minutes to find out how to play it, there is absolutely no reason why he couldn't have done the same.

 

If I show up to a PvE op or even fp hm and don't do any mechanics, stand in stupid, and do little dps to the boss, would you also say this is acceptable? No, of course not. It should not be acceptable for PvP either.

[Floplag]

Gear is cheap, guides for wzs are available everywhere and the procs are currently very easily visible, there is absolutely no excuse for playing horribly. You don't have to be elite, but at 65 you have to at least be somewhat decent.

 

For for example this morning, one guy got a double points mod, held it on a node we captured for an entire round (even though we kept telling him to activate it), got killed, lost the mod and let the enemy get double points next round. Then after that he took another mod and kept it for another round without activating it on a node we captured. We lost by 20 points. There is absolutely no excuse for such horrible play. Before starting the new wz I took 10 minutes to find out how to play it, there is absolutely no reason why he couldn't have done the same.

 

If I show up to a PvE op or even fp hm and don't do any mechanics, stand in stupid, and do little dps to the boss, would you also say this is acceptable? No, of course not. It should not be acceptable for PvP either.

 

Gear is cheap... true, but one must pvp to acquire it. Again though people bail before the match even starts... so dont act like you are judging them on ability, you dont know at all at that point.

I fully agree people should read or ask and have a clue, thats a given... but not even giving them that chance means you cant make that call.

[sithBracer]

Gear is cheap... true, but one must pvp to acquire it. Again though people bail before the match even starts... so dont act like you are judging them on ability, you dont know at all at that point.

I fully agree people should read or ask and have a clue, thats a given... but not even giving them that chance means you cant make that call.

 

Not sure if you missed the "we lost the match by 20 points" part. Which means I did give it a chance. We all did, we tried our best and kept telling him to activate his mods or stop taking them. He ignored us.

 

Most of the time it is not even about gear. It is mostly bad play. In the last few days I only saw like 2-3 people who were in bad gear and no one bailed on the match.

[Ruhun]

Gear is cheap... true, but one must pvp to acquire it. Again though people bail before the match even starts... so dont act like you are judging them on ability, you dont know at all at that point.

I fully agree people should read or ask and have a clue, thats a given... but not even giving them that chance means you cant make that call.

 

190 blues are literally handed to you for completing story quests.

They are also super cheap on Rishi.

If the player wants to get coms and did his homework he should also know about bolster.

 

Its like going into HMFPs or whatever in 178s and expecting the team to not be upset.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Ruhun

[-Bob-]

I think i'm gonna try WoW again and just level my characters up through the free xpac, try and relearn how to play em and start Queing BGs just because its different again.

[Floplag]

190 blues are literally handed to you for completing story quests.

They are also super cheap on Rishi.

If the player wants to get coms and did his homework he should also know about bolster.

 

Its like going into HMFPs or whatever in 178s and expecting the team to not be upset.

 

But they are upset... most of the elitists in regs see a guy without full 2018 expertise and go ballistic and bail. Even expecting someone who does not PvP to understand what Bolster even is is a little bit of a reach.

In general you are correct but even IF they did their homework, if they did all these things... people STILL complain and eviscerate them and leave the match before it start based on nothing but their gear, ive seen it 100 time at least including full premades.

 

You are right in the comparisons though exaggerating slightly. The issue isnt gear level in pvp, its the lack of expertise, which can only be acquired thru doing pvp. Even though you can literally get a full set in one night in most cases its still takes that night to get it. There is no other medium to get it unlike PvE where you can do SM to get the gear to move up to HM etc... Regs are the SM of PvP, its that simple.

[Floplag]

I think i'm gonna try WoW again and just level my characters up through the free xpac, try and relearn how to play em and start Queing BGs just because its different again.

 

Its notr really that different... lol. But i understand the sentiment.

I've tried other games, have one i like a lot that has solid PvP even though its still an MMO with PvE options.

WoW, cant say i can envision ever going back, but good luck to you.

[Ruhun]

But they are upset... most of the elitists in regs see a guy without full 2018 expertise and go ballistic and bail. Even expecting someone who does not PvP to understand what Bolster even is is a little bit of a reach.

In general you are correct but even IF they did their homework, if they did all these things... people STILL complain and eviscerate them and leave the match before it start based on nothing but their gear, ive seen it 100 time at least including full premades.

 

You are right in the comparisons though exaggerating slightly. The issue isnt gear level in pvp, its the lack of expertise, which can only be acquired thru doing pvp. Even though you can literally get a full set in one night in most cases its still takes that night to get it. There is no other medium to get it unlike PvE where you can do SM to get the gear to move up to HM etc... Regs are the SM of PvP, its that simple.

 

I haven't done SMs in a very long time, but in pvp all it takes is them not having ****** PvE 208s. They will get bolstered to 19xx and be able to survive and contribute. If not then enjoy that 35k crit.