I now see that love is a huge mistake for Jedi

[casirabit]

You married an obsessed fangirl with the emotional and mental maturity of a 13 year-old. What did you expect?

 

I don't believe that love is a weakness for a Jedi, but it can be a weakness if you love the wrong person. Felix Iresso is a great example of romantic Jedi love done right. Now, I never romanced him myself because I found pretty much everything to do with the Consular to be boring, but I've watched the romance videos and I did like how they handled him in regards to falling for a Jedi. Felix makes it clear that he's first and foremost a soldier. He loves the Consular, yes, but he puts his duty to the Republic first, like when he stayed on that ship that was about to blow up to get critical information for the military. He willingly undergoes interviews from the Council to show that he's able to deal with being with a Jedi. Being in love doesn't change who he is as a person. He's still Felix Iresso, and he still has the same convictions and beliefs he did before. With or without the Consular by his side, he has duties and responsibilities that he's going to take care of, no matter how much pain he may be in emotionally.

 

Now let's look at Nadia. Nadia was a very creepy romance in my opinion. She was purposely kept sheltered by her father, and she knows nothing of how the world works, nor how to properly control her powers, also thanks to her father. She claims to love the male Consular, but to me it's mostly just "OMG, you're so cool and handsome, will you be my bf?" She doesn't understand love, not really. How could she? She's been kept under lock and key most of her life. It's not her fault. But her response to loosing her Consular husband makes sense for her character. She relies so much on the Consular, male or female, that without him or her she's pretty much incapable of anything. Of course she'd go off the deep end after loosing her husband.

 

To my mind, it's not love that's the problem here, it's the person in love who is. A mature person knows and understands that even if they're in love, they have to do their job. Two police officers who are married have to understand that while they're on the job, their only responsibility is to keep their communities safe. If they're both on duty and they have to deal with a violent situation, they're not going to ignore everything else to protect each other, they're going to do their job and keep the civilians safe. If one of them is injured, the other one still has to carry on.

 

Now I know that in real life the chances of a married police couple posted on the same rounds together is incredibly unlikely, but my point is still valid. The problem isn't that Nadia is in love. The problem is that Nadia is in love.

 

/agree.

[Yermog]

And let's not forget that she became your padawan right after her father was killed by a sith which deeply affected her. I think that since she was 'put' in the Consular's care just after that event she probably transfered the love she had for her father to you without realising the difference between fatherly love and real love between two persons.

I agree with this completely. She hasn't had the life experience to understand all of her different emotions, let alone try to separate them enough to tell whether she truly loves the JC or is just using him as a way to overcome her grief. In so many ways, the Consular is a crutch for Nadia, emotionally, mentally, and for a male consular, physically. The Consular has a very strong personality, and Nadia, who despite being an adult physically is not one mentally, is naturally attracted to that and latches on rather than trying (or being able) to form her own independent identity.

 

Damn your sense making. 100% agree.

Alas, my sense making has been destroying headcanons and fandoms for years. It's both a gift and a curse.

 

But hey, just bear in mind that Nadia wrote that five years ago in the midst of her grief. She had just lost her spouse, and her biggest source of support, and in that letter she's lost, alone, and hurting. Yes, she sounds very immature in the letter, BUT five years is a very long time. She's probably done a lot of growing up since then, and when you meet her next she may have matured into an amazing Jedi. You never know. If you're really concerned about her, wait and see what she's like when next you meet her. If she's as bad as you think she'll be, then you can end it right there, but if your consular really loved her, he may be hoping that this won't be the case. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst, as they say.

[Aeristash]

She wait to the end but she escape order more because council have 0 gratitude for stoping Malak they had only complains and that's no fair, and i agree with anakin in from my point of view the Jedi are evil" ^^ so be proud that she isn't jedi hipocrite ^^, by the way maybe she doing nothing and only write in letter.

 

Skywalker massacred legions of Jedi, including the children, in his attempt to fuel his power for some dark side ritual to save his wife. I hardly think that creature is close to being qualified in defining evil. Sadly I'm afraid that Nadia is not too far from skywalker in being so in love that she'd be willing to even strike down her fellow Jedi if it came down to saving her lover.

[Audoucet]

When I see people saying that Siths are better than Jedi, I think about Samra Kesinovic. Edited April 18, 2016 by Audoucet

[LordXantor]

Skywalker massacred legions of Jedi, including the children, in his attempt to fuel his power for some dark side ritual to save his wife. I hardly think that creature is close to being qualified in defining evil. Sadly I'm afraid that Nadia is not too far from skywalker in being so in love that she'd be willing to even strike down her fellow Jedi if it came down to saving her lover.

 

that's not ritual ^^ it's midi-chlorians manipulation to save life (i'm not sure that's even DS)

 

When I see people saying that Siths are better than Jedi, I think about Samra Kesinovic.

 

no better they're both evil ^^(Jedi kidnappers and Sith's Killers)

Edited April 19, 2016 by LordXantor

[Audoucet]

no better they're both evil ^^(Jedi kidnappers and Sith's Killers)

 

I'll make a new thread in Star Wars discussion.

[SerraShar]

Both Ashara and Lana go as crazy as Nadia when they lose their beau. Ashara starts hearing voices and wanders off towards a random destination, just looking for company in her grief, unknowing what that company is. Cool, composed and pragmatic Lana turns into the possessive wife, keeping an ocd constant on the outlanders location and even stating in a letter that the only reason she didn't try to tear the galaxy apart for a second time finding you was because someone told her to calm down. I think being force sensitive and in love has adverse effects, due to the increased sensitivity to emotion. It's like a dependency bond is formed and when it's broken, mental degradation seems to follow. The non- force sensitive lovers worry and grieve too, but not to such a crazy extent.

 

*LALALALA I don't hear you* :D:D

 

Kidding aside , maybe so . But at least hers connect with the ''felt Marr passing , felt the Emprore'' .

 

I never romanced the others companions (save for Torian and It was so boring..I plan on going back to Lana) . So I don't know what kind of letters you get from them..

 

she saved the outlander..so her possesiveness was useful lol

 

I think being force sensitive and in love has adverse effects, due to the increased sensitivity to emotion. It's like a dependency bond is formed and when it's broken, mental degradation seems to follow. The non- force sensitive lovers worry and grieve too, but not to such a crazy extent.

I don't know if that is really accurate . There must be somewhere , a Jedi or sith who Loved and didnt need Xanax ..

 

no ??

[JLazarillo]

I agree with this completely. She hasn't had the life experience to understand all of her different emotions, let alone try to separate them enough to tell whether she truly loves the JC or is just using him as a way to overcome her grief. In so many ways, the Consular is a crutch for Nadia, emotionally, mentally, and for a male consular, physically. The Consular has a very strong personality, and Nadia, who despite being an adult physically is not one mentally, is naturally attracted to that and latches on rather than trying (or being able) to form her own independent identity.

 

Y'all make some good points. I liked certain aspects of the Nadia romance, but it was kind of off-putting as well, for reasons I found kind of hard to put into words but I think have been given form now by previous posters. I'm a little curious, though: do you think some of the more negative connotations of her romance could have been avoided by having Nadia interact with the Consular starting earlier in the story? If she'd been treated as a companion and romance option from the very beginning, maybe even actually becoming a Padawan as soon as you learned about her powers, then I feel like the relationship would've had more in-story time to mature, and maybe become a little more palatable, even if certain elements were left in (the grief-hookup, for example, I actually thought was well written from an in-character point of view, though I'm glad that you can't actually take advantage of her there, and it's how that leads to the romance that makes it weird).

[Eanelinea]

I have female jedi, jk and consular, so I don't know about romancing Kira or Nadia, but Nadia was heart broken after her father was killed. And it was such a stupid death by a stupid Sith for no real reason. So, I can understand her being emotionally unstable thinking her husband might be a pow or could even be dead.

 

Look at Jorgan. A Cathar who mates for life. He held out hope for a long time his wife was not dead no matter what the Republic turds thought and told him. FFS he was almost given a psyche discharge because he couldn't let it go. Then there you go, walking back into his life and he almost CRIES when he tells you he's all mixed up because you just came back to him.

 

My Jedi Knight married Doc, his letter has him thinking I'm on an undercover mission and I can't tell him where I am. I'm HOPING he didn't go off and boink or marry someone else as I personally wouldn't be able to handle that. I'm pretty sure he's not giving up hope, but he's still Doc. If he was actually a widower, and his wife wasn't just off a frozen popsicle, I highly doubt he would ever get married again to anyone because you are the only woman he ever actually and truly loved deeply and WANTED to marry.

 

My Consular married Iresso and as someone further up said, he's a soldier first and a husband second.

 

Even Jorgan and his wife, the female trooper, may work together, and before KotFE, she was his CO, but she, at least mine, thought of herself as his wife first and CO second. She still commanded her original Havoc Squad, but she still married Jorgan and I'm sure behind the scenes, they shared her bed/bedroom on the ship. Now that she's no longer in charge of Havoc Squad, she can just be his wife. Yeah, she's the Alliance Commander, but I think everyone who reunites with their husband/wife will be more about listening or doing what the spouse wants then before 4.0.

 

Same with Quinn and the Sith Warrior. He might stop with the My Lords and begin calling her his love because he believes himself to be a POW widow/actual widow.

 

It IS just a game of course, but you have to think about the companion you married. You've been gone, even thought dead, for five years. Your spouse is STILL emotionally traumatized by this, especially since you are the greatest at your role (ie class/chosen one, etc)

 

It's very difficult for your spouse to deal with you being gone, especially if they were a hard *** or wouldn't normally have married anyone at all. I'm still waiting for when Andronikos comes back, he's probably taking out his emotional distress out on ALOT of Zakuul natives.

[Yermog]

Y'all make some good points. I liked certain aspects of the Nadia romance, but it was kind of off-putting as well, for reasons I found kind of hard to put into words but I think have been given form now by previous posters. I'm a little curious, though: do you think some of the more negative connotations of her romance could have been avoided by having Nadia interact with the Consular starting earlier in the story? If she'd been treated as a companion and romance option from the very beginning, maybe even actually becoming a Padawan as soon as you learned about her powers, then I feel like the relationship would've had more in-story time to mature, and maybe become a little more palatable, even if certain elements were left in (the grief-hookup, for example, I actually thought was well written from an in-character point of view, though I'm glad that you can't actually take advantage of her there, and it's how that leads to the romance that makes it weird).

I think that's a good question and you make a valid point as well. But I think what we need to make her more enjoyable as a character is not more time with her, but character development on her part. She goes through a great deal after meeting the Consular, but she never seems to grow as a person. She's always shielded and protected by her father, and after his death the role of guardian and mentor is passed to the Consular. Nadia is never given the time to grow and develop as an individual, we never see her work through her emotions in a mature, adult way, and her romance with the male Consular seems rushed and based on a crush more than actual love.

 

I do think it would be easier to see her romance in a better light if she had more time with the Consular from the beginning. It might be easier to see it as actual love then, rather than a crush, but I still wouldn't trust Nadia's maturity to understand real love. But maybe if they'd given her more time to be in the story she'd have been able to grow up and develop more to the point where being with her wouldn't be so creepy.

[SithKoriandr]

I don't think her letter sounds raving at all. Also, while she may gather people to find you, it's not like she's forcing them to follow you. She's going to people the consular had helped and hoping they will now help you in return (as they said they would do, if my memory serves).

 

As for love and a mistake for Jedi. She wasn't a Jedi that long and in her twenties when she did become one.

 

Also, everything she's done, a non Jedi could have done just as easily. It doesn't take a Jedi to gather a group of people to rescue someone.

 

Sometimes, the need of the one, out weighs the need of the many. ;p

[Joachimthbear]

I don't know if that is really accurate . There must be somewhere , a Jedi or sith who Loved and didnt need Xanax ..

 

no ??

I don't think love in itself is the problem. It's the other feelings that can result from such an attachment - the fear, pain and anger when something bad happens to a loved one. With emotional maturity, perspective and discipline, those feelings can be managed. However, it's a big risk to take - because if those same emotions get the better of you, things can get much worse for a Force user than for anyone else.

 

The Jedi may warn against attachments, but they're much more accepting of love than the Sith are, for example. To the Sith, love is a weakness to be purged, as Malgus did.

[SithKoriandr]

I don't know if that is really accurate . There must be somewhere , a Jedi or sith who Loved and didnt need Xanax ..

 

no ??

 

Of course there is. They're just not main characters. I'd say some of the going to the dark side with the loss of a loved one, is also different depending on the death.

 

Dying of old age is likely easier to accept, rather than being caught in the middle of a war (of any kind) and having the ability to avenge them easier.

 

Every person can lash out, the force users just tend to have a lot of power behind them, when they do.

[Astaldoath]

After your padawan finishes falling to the Dark Side, my Sith will recruit her and she shall become a splendorous Darth one day in the future:)

 

This, this is why the jedi fail, humans have emotions, you cant just deny them, it is human to feel the way she felt, how many years was she a jedi for was she a jedi for 80 years? 200? was she a master, no. That is why anakin fell, the jedi would not listen to him and just said oh well if someone you love dies just be happy for them,

 

IT DONT WORK LIKE THAT WHEN UR HUMAN!

[SerraShar]

I don't think love in itself is the problem. It's the other feelings that can result from such an attachment - the fear, pain and anger when something bad happens to a loved one. With emotional maturity, perspective and discipline, those feelings can be managed. However, it's a big risk to take - because if those same emotions get the better of you, things can get much worse for a Force user than for anyone else.

 

The Jedi may warn against attachments, but they're much more accepting of love than the Sith are, for example. To the Sith, love is a weakness to be purged, as Malgus did.

 

Always was puzzeled by the Jedi approach . You know , the whole <warn against...dark side , emotions , attachement..etc<<

so far it hasnt worked and jedi still fall and get lost in darkness . So make me wonder why they never tried another approach instead .

[SerraShar]

Of course there is. They're just not main characters. I'd say some of the going to the dark side with the loss of a loved one, is also different depending on the death.

 

Dying of old age is likely easier to accept, rather than being caught in the middle of a war (of any kind) and having the ability to avenge them easier.

 

Every person can lash out, the force users just tend to have a lot of power behind them, when they do.

yeah I know..its the Harrowing must be joke all over again

[SerraShar]

This, this is why the jedi fail, humans have emotions, you cant just deny them, it is human to feel the way she felt, how many years was she a jedi for was she a jedi for 80 years? 200? was she a master, no. That is why anakin fell, the jedi would not listen to him and just said oh well if someone you love dies just be happy for them,

 

IT DONT WORK LIKE THAT WHEN UR HUMAN!

I think the failur is in the fact its merely preached..

 

Jedi are diplomat , Jedi seek peace , Jedi dont kill their opponent ...

 

and Padawan and Jedi are thrown in the galaxy with mere word , no actual training in how to resist or defend one self from a storm that may erupt from within .

 

Hang in the code and hope for the best.....

[Joachimthbear]

so far it hasnt worked and jedi still fall and get lost in darkness . So make me wonder why they never tried another approach instead .

How many fall, though? I mean, we hear a lot about the ones who do because each one makes for an entire story right there. Star Wars stories often focus on wars lasting decades, but between those wars there are thousands of years of peace. The Jedi we see are a very small number of the total who have ever existed. Their teachings seem to work just fine for the vast majority.

 

and Padawan and Jedi are thrown in the galaxy with mere word , no actual training in how to resist or defend one self from a storm that may erupt from within .

What makes you say that? Obi-Wan outright says that he loved Anakin as his brother, and he clearly feels anger and pain over Anakin's betrayal - but he doesn't fall. Who says there's no actual training in how to achieve that self-control? I'd say that's what all the meditation and even most of the lightsaber practice is about.

 

In Anakin's case, the Jedi Council specifically said that there was too much fear in him already, and that he shouldn't be trained. Is it really a failing of their teachings and methods if they were right all along?

Edited April 20, 2016 by Joachimthbear

[SerraShar]

How many fall, though? I mean, we hear a lot about the ones who do because each one makes for an entire story right there. Star Wars stories often focus on wars lasting decades, but between those wars there are thousands of years of peace. The Jedi we see are a very small number of the total who have ever existed. Their teachings seem to work just fine for the vast majority.

 

 

What makes you say that? Obi-Wan outright says that he loved Anakin as his brother, and he clearly feels anger and pain over Anakin's betrayal - but he doesn't fall. Who says there's no actual training in how to achieve that self-control? I'd say that's what all the meditation and even most of the lightsaber practice is about.

 

In Anakin's case, the Jedi Council specifically said that there was too much fear in him already, and that he shouldn't be trained. Is it really a failing of their teachings and methods if they were right all along?

 

Maybe not many falls , but those who end up doing so..can create Havoc before they are stopped .

 

You cant say <<well.....1 jedi fall but we have a 100 that are good !<< when that one sole Jedi could turn out like Vader or Exar or watever and can destroy 3 planets before he is put down .

 

if there is such a training for self controle , I like it to be shown instead of just mentioned here and there .

[SithKoriandr]

This, this is why the jedi fail, humans have emotions, you cant just deny them, it is human to feel the way she felt, how many years was she a jedi for was she a jedi for 80 years? 200? was she a master, no. That is why anakin fell, the jedi would not listen to him and just said oh well if someone you love dies just be happy for them,

 

IT DONT WORK LIKE THAT WHEN UR HUMAN!

 

And yet there are humans who say this every time a human dies. "They're off to a better place." is no different than "They're one with the force."

 

Humans do have emotions, but it isn't like there aren't humans who try to deny emotions.

[SithKoriandr]

I think the failur is in the fact its merely preached..

 

Jedi are diplomat , Jedi seek peace , Jedi dont kill their opponent ...

 

and Padawan and Jedi are thrown in the galaxy with mere word , no actual training in how to resist or defend one self from a storm that may erupt from within .

 

Hang in the code and hope for the best.....

 

The Knight and Consular are specifically said to have been trained for years before obtaining their newer masters. So, the Jedi characters weren't thrown into a war with just words spoken to them

 

Nadia on the other hand, was trained much later in life. She's an adult. She may be naive, she may have been sheltered, but that doesn't make her any less of an adult. Even in RL you don't have those to things stop one from being in a relationship.

[SerraShar]

The Knight and Consular are specifically said to have been trained for years before obtaining their newer masters. So, the Jedi characters weren't thrown into a war with just words spoken to them

 

Nadia on the other hand, was trained much later in life. She's an adult. She may be naive, she may have been sheltered, but that doesn't make her any less of an adult. Even in RL you don't have those to things stop one from being in a relationship.

 

But it really never shown in the game..is it ^

 

I mean , even back in old Kotor 1......revan was trained as a Padawan if I recall..and all his training was with lightsaber and the force .

 

No that is true .

 

But if you know someone is naive......well..at least to me , it be akward to be in a relationship with them . would feel like you are taking advantage.....

[SithKoriandr]

But it really never shown in the game..is it ^

 

I mean , even back in old Kotor 1......revan was trained as a Padawan if I recall..and all his training was with lightsaber and the force .

 

No that is true .

 

But if you know someone is naive......well..at least to me , it be akward to be in a relationship with them . would feel like you are taking advantage.....

 

Reminds me of a recent episode of the show Elementry, where Sherlock has entered into a relationship with an autistic woman. Comes off as naive, maybe childish.

 

May be naive, still adults who know they want the relationship. The taking advantage of aspect, would likely just depend on the person.

[Joachimthbear]

And yet there are humans who say this every time a human dies. "They're off to a better place." is no different than "They're one with the force."

There is a difference in that in the real world, people take the afterlife on faith. In Star Wars, someone can actually come back from the better place to tell you how swell it is.

 

I mean , even back in old Kotor 1......revan was trained as a Padawan if I recall..and all his training was with lightsaber and the force .

I think all that training with the Force and lightsabers essentially is training in self-discipline and to deal with emotions. If you need to lift a rock with the Force, you can either invest more of your passion in the attempt (Dark Side, imposing your will on the Force) or clear your head, centre yourself, and become a vessel for the Force to flow through you (Light Side, a balanced relationship of give and take). When you see Jedi sitting around meditating and moving rocks around, they're effectively training their mental discipline.

 

It's the same with the lightsaber. Jedi and Sith could use blasters if they wanted, but they choose a weapon that makes you depend on the Force. So lightsaber sparring is a way to deepen your connection to the Force, either by channelling your passions for strength and speed, or by opening yourself to the Force and letting it guide your movements.

 

Nadia on the other hand, was trained much later in life. She's an adult. She may be naive, she may have been sheltered, but that doesn't make her any less of an adult. Even in RL you don't have those to things stop one from being in a relationship.

If you're in a formal teacher/student relationship, as the Consular is with Nadia, you might let that stop you.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Joachimthbear

[Capella]

Yermog's post on why it being Nadia who is in love, vs being in love, is absolutely flawless. Also 100% in agreement with all the stuff about Felix - that's why he's my favorite game romance.