embarrassing

[caederon]

To me, this sounds like sayxing : "You'll never be as good as we are. At least not for months."

No, it is saying "You're not as good as we are. Practice, learn the game, and you could be." Big difference.

 

I haven't played baseball for a very long time. Should I expect to be able to saunter up to the plate at the home opener of [pick your favorite MLB team] and smack a home run into the stands? Or should I acknowledge that the skill gap is great and I will have to practice to compete with experienced players? I have long lamented that there is no 'minor league' for GSFers to learn in, but the reality is that with solid grounding in the basics of how to play and a reasonable amount of practice, anyone can become a contributor who develops the skills to learn where their personal performance ceiling is.

 

The resources available to new players are plentiful. I even hold classes of a sort that new players are more than welcome to come to and learn from me and other veterans in attendance. If people want to learn, they have many tools at their disposal.

 

Yes, but learning to fly while getting shot down ? Is that still "fun" ?

 

How do I learn to fly when I'm the primary target of everyone once they find out that I'm inexperienced ?

"Fun" is a subjective measure of someone's tolerance for failure against the reward of achieving their goals. Who are you to define what is and isn't fun for any given individual?

 

Inexperienced people aren't the 'primary target of everyone' unless they put themselves into bad positions... which they often do. Part of learning the game is figuring out how to avoid causing undue danger to yourself, or at least being able to recognize when you choose to do so for a purpose. If a new player flies their stock strike fighter in a lonely march through open space straight at a fully armed satellite with several defenders, yep... they will be the 'primary target of everyone' and get blown up. If that same player joins a large group of teammates who pose a greater threat to the opposition than they do, they'll likely survive a lot longer.

 

Despon

[Storm-Cutter]

a few bullet points:

 

I'd say check chat channels for your server, and try and group up with someone to speed up any pop.

 

Always pick up the the daily and weekly from fleet/capital world/ odessen.

 

Maybe concentrate on one ship at a time. - Learning it's strengths, abilities and weaknesses. - Rather than trying to kit out several at a time.

 

- If you have spare Cartel coins you can use the daily/weekly reward to transfer req from one ship to fleet req and then spend it on upgrades for the one ship you're concentrating on.

 

IN TDM matches, IIRC picking up the power-ups constitutes as contributing. - alternatively if there are stationary targets try going for those - Hyperspace beacons, repair probes, mines etc.

 

If you're running low on power, don't be afraid to run and hide before it builds up again - same with your CDs.

- If someone is on your tail, run for your team- mates.

 

Don't over-extend. A lot of fresh pilots push too deep into enemy territory - I see this a lot in TDM - when you bear in mind that GS and Bombers are relatively slow, they can take ~2 full engine regens to get into the other half of the map.

 

keep an eye on chat - Especially at the start, if someone posts a strategy, or says where repairs or tensor / hyperspace beacon is going to be.

 

Don't attack Gunships straight on when thy have you in their sights. - Think like a sheepdog and go on an extended outrun. - And if you don't kill them on the first pass, they're likely to target you all the way out to ~15Km distance.

 

Try to attack bombers away from their ordinance - alternatively get close to a friendly bomber and cover them.

 

When attacking satellites up close- take out one turret, then let your shield/guns/engines fill up again by flying around an obstacle (or out of their range) and then go in for another pass - You're unlikely to take out 3 turrets from close range all in the same run in non-mastered ships.

 

Remember you can keybind your controls - which includes the mouse buttons- if the stock layout isn't your thing. - Personally I use a 5-button mouse and run weapons and power controls from the mouse - while using the keys for moving the ship, boosting, and CDs. - but you're best to set it up the way you want, not the way that other people do!

 

Good luck OP, and safe flying!

Edited April 5, 2016 by Storm-Cutter

[FlavivsAetivs]

I wanna point out something that I discussed last night, and that is this: you know there's a serious problem with the game when you have to do calculus in order play it right.

 

We were discussing operations and I noticed the parallels between the current state of SWTOR's ops and GSF. The learning curb is so high now that players have to be mentored 1 on 1 in order to be able to even clear story mode content (despite the story mode nerfs). Both gamemodes literally require usage of calculus in order to determine gearing stats for your class, because 2 augments can literally be 500 DPS in difference in some cases, just like rapid fire lasers are such a drastic difference from BLC. Both are now neglected, and as more and more veteran players leave there's few left who are the kind of people who put up with the wipes and losses in order to mentor new players. Often more than one at a time.

 

Neither game-mode caters to "Johnny average" now. In fact, there isn't even a "Johnny average" left for either game-mode.

 

That's just my 2 cents.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 5, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[MaximilianPower]

I wanna point out something that I discussed last night, and that is this: you know there's a serious problem with the game when you have to do calculus in order play it right.

 

We were discussing operations and I noticed the parallels between the current state of SWTOR's ops and GSF. The learning curb is so high now that players have to be mentored 1 on 1 in order to be able to even clear story mode content (despite the story mode nerfs). Both gamemodes literally require usage of calculus in order to determine gearing stats for your class, because 2 augments can literally be 500 DPS in difference in some cases, just like rapid fire lasers are such a drastic difference from BLC. Both are now neglected, and as more and more veteran players leave there's few left who are the kind of people who put up with the wipes and losses in order to mentor new players. Often more than one at a time.

 

Neither game-mode caters to "Johnny average" now. In fact, there isn't even a "Johnny average" left for either game-mode.

 

That's just my 2 cents.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

I don't do a lot of ops but I get what you're saying. Absolutely, the preposterous learning curve in GSF has been a huge hurdle since it launched. It is a rough road for new players: the tutorial is worthless, you're saddled with trap components from the get-go, and you are basically condemned to dying over and over again until you can even begin to make sense of what's happening.

 

That said, I think with support from some knowledgeable players and lots of practice, anyone can become competent without learning the minutiae of the game, i.e. optimal gearing for highest dps or whatever. People do quite well using components I think are terrible. The important thing is experience...learning how to aim & fly, prioritizing your targets, using your CDs...and just generally what's going on in the match. As we always say around here, experience does truly trump gear, in spite of all the cries to the contrary.

 

In other words, you may need that optimized rotation to progress in an op, but you don't really need that kind of stuff to succeed in GSF.

[FlavivsAetivs]

In other words, you may need that optimized rotation to progress in an op, but you don't really need that kind of stuff to succeed in GSF.

 

^^Fair points all around, and as a Clarion pilot I can't disagree with this.^^

 

~ Eudoxia

[Donlan_Yllvei]

Please don't get discouraged. Don't give up on GSF. It's really fun once you get the hang of it.

 

You've only played 7 hours. I played for nearly two weeks before i got my first kil. I'm sure it will be much faster for you...

If you're finding it hard to deal damage or get any kills, think about trying a gunship. The tier 2 GS - Quarrel/Mangler - is an excellent ship to learn the game on. And you'll start feeling like you're contributing something to your team.

 

It was the same for me. I learned to play GSF on the Bastion back when Drakolich, Pincer, Stasie and their band of marauders played imp side *always*. I didn't even have any imp toons at that point, so it was lose lose lose lose over and over again. I feel your pain.

 

But learning to play against players who are much better than you are will make you better at GSF in the long run. You'll start figuring out how to stay alive and deal damage.

[philwil]

Basically...we ALL started where you are at. Some of us from the beginning of GSF. It is much harder now, being that the game has been out a couple years now and many pilots fly mastered ships and know the ins and outs of each.

 

It took time and patience to get there.

 

I flew 8 months to a year from the beginning before I was effective. Some were much faster picking up flying the different ships. What is effective in what situations, etc.

 

I know my way around GSF pretty good. But that is from experience and talking to other more successful pilots.

 

Don't give up hope. One day, it will just 'click' and you'll be on your way to being much better and feeling more effective and useful.

 

Good luck! Keep at it. And you can join the ranks of the cray ones who continue to fly gsf all hours of the day and night. Many sleepless nights. Thank you GSF, for that.

 

 

Harbinger

Masel/Dread-not/Singapore-sling/B'rown-sugar Pub side

 

Kintajo/Dirty-diana/Crashtest-dummy Imp side

[SeCKSEgai]

I wanna point out something that I discussed last night, and that is this: you know there's a serious problem with the game when you have to do calculus in order play it right.

 

We were discussing operations and I noticed the parallels between the current state of SWTOR's ops and GSF. The learning curb is so high now that players have to be mentored 1 on 1 in order to be able to even clear story mode content (despite the story mode nerfs). Both gamemodes literally require usage of calculus in order to determine gearing stats for your class, because 2 augments can literally be 500 DPS in difference in some cases, just like rapid fire lasers are such a drastic difference from BLC. Both are now neglected, and as more and more veteran players leave there's few left who are the kind of people who put up with the wipes and losses in order to mentor new players. Often more than one at a time.

 

Neither game-mode caters to "Johnny average" now. In fact, there isn't even a "Johnny average" left for either game-mode.

 

That's just my 2 cents.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

I have to let the elitism out a lil bit on this post.

 

While gear optimization does require extra effort, it doesn't necessitate calculus level math and can be refined with a little trial and error. Gear in fact has been streamlined and simplified compared to prekotfe - back then you just relied more heavily on power because the other stats didn't scale well enough unlike now where you're mostly balancing alacrity and critical.

 

The learning curve for ops hasn't changed, unless you consider that prekotfe most of the ups were below level so a lot of people never learned mechanics - the reduced damage kept them largely unnoticed for a lot of players. Aside from mechanics in most ops regaining meaning again, they've otherwise gotten far easier than their prekotfe counterparts. People who never learned their classes well and struggle with sm Ravs/ToS now would have never made it through pre 4.0 sm Ravs/ToS without being carried by an entire team.

 

The SM operations haven't grown in difficulty - the playerbase skill level average has dropped dramatically as the game caters to more "casual" players.

 

But more importantly, there's one reason I wouldn't compare sm ops to gsf.

 

SM op difficulty - the npcs are basically hitpoints with varying abilities and their (the npcs) difficulty does vary, just the skill levels of a player and his/her teammates. An SM operation's challenge is based on how effective the players of the group are, the npc difficulty does not change.

 

GSF difficulty - New players start with everything against them. Unlike with sm operations where you have a chance to learn your character as you progress through the storyline, the tutorial for gsf is just shy of useless and provides no real means of practice. One must learn gsf by being thrown straight into battle, often against more experienced opponents in better ships. Unlike npcs of sm ops, gsf "difficulty" is based on the skill of two teams instead of just one.

 

Lastly, you really don't need calculus for GSF. My training primarily consisted of being beatup by superior pilots and just having enough desire to keep playing long enough to learn from how they beat me and achieve that level of performance.

 

Also, technically speaking I'm almost positive rapids can hit higher numbers if you were to rely on math alone. The reason they fall apart in practice, especially against something like BLC is that you can't expect to sustain fire on a moving target. Not to say there isn't a huge learning curve n gsf mind you, but it's not relying on math so much as one's ability to grasp general concepts.

[FlavivsAetivs]

I have to let the elitism out a lil bit on this post.

 

While gear optimization does require extra effort, it doesn't necessitate calculus level math and can be refined with a little trial and error. Gear in fact has been streamlined and simplified compared to prekotfe - back then you just relied more heavily on power because the other stats didn't scale well enough unlike now where you're mostly balancing alacrity and critical.

 

Yeah and a lot of Bant's stats are wrong (e.g. TK Sage should have 1200 Alac while Bant's Min/Max guide has them at 800 and tactics vanguard stats are wrong too and this is because the rotations he uses to calculate these two classes with are totally wrong and are rotations nobody uses so they actually do much more). My class (Infil Shadow) he says you want 3 mastery augments but in reality it's best to max your crit out at 1500-ish (I think 1540 is max), make sure your accuracy is perfect as possible, and then dump the rest into alacrity till it hits 940 and if there's anything left into power.

 

The learning curve for ops hasn't changed, unless you consider that prekotfe most of the ups were below level so a lot of people never learned mechanics - the reduced damage kept them largely unnoticed for a lot of players. Aside from mechanics in most ops regaining meaning again, they've otherwise gotten far easier than their prekotfe counterparts. People who never learned their classes well and struggle with sm Ravs/ToS now would have never made it through pre 4.0 sm Ravs/ToS without being carried by an entire team.

 

The SM operations haven't grown in difficulty - the playerbase skill level average has dropped dramatically as the game caters to more "casual" players.

 

Yeah I know I did UL in 3.0 when it was bugged usually 99% of the time. I hated pugging story mode TOS/Ravs cause the people couldn't do it. They nerfed story mode now, most people still can't make it past the basic mechanics.

 

As for more "causal players", the game doesn't even cater to them. It's trying to force people into playing solo content now, when we all know group content keeps MMO's alive.

 

I'm a casual player. I run ops casually, I do PvP casually, I do GSF a bit more seriously than either of those two. I'm not in a hardcore prog team doing NiM, but I like running ops. I'm not the best PvE'er, I don't have the highest parse for my class (infil/deception shadow) although I do make the overall leaderboard for it. I don't do ranked PvP because 1. my class is so bad thanks to Bioware that nobody wants it in ranked and 2. I'm not too keen on being so competitive. I just do everything in the game for fun.

 

The problem is the kind of players it caters too are not the average Joes but the people who want the game handed to them. Who go through storymode and think they're some sort of great player who's awesome at the game and can do anything in it, and then have no clue how to actually play it. And this is my point: they get to the endgame and find out they have no clue what they're doing, just like entering a GSF match and have no clue what they're doing, and then they give up and never try it again. Especially when you have a community that so often will kick the player from the group because they can't do the content. Few come into GF/SM ops who are "salvageable" and can be carried through.

 

And then there's the gap between SM and HM/NiM...

 

But more importantly, there's one reason I wouldn't compare sm ops to gsf.

 

SM op difficulty - the npcs are basically hitpoints with varying abilities and their (the npcs) difficulty does vary, just the skill levels of a player and his/her teammates. An SM operation's challenge is based on how effective the players of the group are, the npc difficulty does not change.

 

GSF difficulty - New players start with everything against them. Unlike with sm operations where you have a chance to learn your character as you progress through the storyline, the tutorial for gsf is just shy of useless and provides no real means of practice. One must learn gsf by being thrown straight into battle, often against more experienced opponents in better ships. Unlike npcs of sm ops, gsf "difficulty" is based on the skill of two teams instead of just one.

 

Lastly, you really don't need calculus for GSF. My training primarily consisted of being beatup by superior pilots and just having enough desire to keep playing long enough to learn from how they beat me and achieve that level of performance.

 

Also, technically speaking I'm almost positive rapids can hit higher numbers if you were to rely on math alone. The reason they fall apart in practice, especially against something like BLC is that you can't expect to sustain fire on a moving target. Not to say there isn't a huge learning curve n gsf mind you, but it's not relying on math so much as one's ability to grasp general concepts.

 

I can't disagree with this. Fair points.

 

I mean, it took those hardcore PvP'ers in the "actual new player experience" thread their knowledge of PvP gamemodes to figure out that you were supposed to capture and hold A, B, and C sats, and even then they didn't know how to capture and hold it. You can't click it like you can in PvP. Nothing teaches people GSF. The reason I didn't have such a steep learning curb is because the gamemode was so similar to Battlefront 2's.

 

GSF isn't an MMO gameplay feature, it doesn't work like other MMO's. They took a first person shooter and put it as a minigame in an MMO, and unless you come from a first-person shooter background that has air-to-air combat like Halo, Battlefront 2, Battlefield, Top Gun, or whatever, you won't know how to even lock on missiles (which they clearly didn't). And most of those games also had a joystick or controller, not a mouse and keyboard. And they don't teach you all the details like which components and weapons to pick either, or how to capture a sat, or strategy with balancing the four classes on your team.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 6, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[DavidAtkinson]

Having like 2000+ more matches under my belt, I can say that my best training was fghthing against heavy imp premades on the progenitor. Getting crushed by names like Miriya Northerlight, Etrii.

 

It was frustrating ? Yeah, of course... the anger I have felt many times. But I did become better. talked to them after the match by whispering. Wanted to learn from them.

 

My best training was my desire to go on and become better.

[caederon]

unless you come from a first-person shooter background that has air-to-air combat like Halo, Battlefront 2, Battlefield, Top Gun, or whatever, you won't know how to even lock on missiles (which they clearly didn't). And most of those games also had a joystick or controller, not a mouse and keyboard.

Actually, more than a few of us came from a background of playing space sims. These games existed in great numbers for many years before being largely abandoned by the industry as a commercial genre until just recently. The Wing Commander series. Privateer. Elite. X Beyond The Frontier and its descendants. Freespace. And of course, the X-Wing / TIE Fighter games (of which I only ever played X-Wing Alliance).

 

The single best training for GSF came, however, from my favorite of all space sims, Freelancer. This was Star Citizen before there was Star Citizen. Same guy made both, and he had those big ideas back then, too. However, Freelancer ended up abandoning most of the big concept ideas and eventually became a really cool story driven semi-open-world space game. The big kicker is that it had a then-unique mouse controlled spaceflight model, which I loved. I was immediately comfortable playing GSF, the controls were very similar. There are a couple copies available on Ebay, I couldn't find it for sale elsewhere. Not my copy, though, I get the urge to play through it again every few years.

 

- Despon

[Storm-Cutter]

Freelancer was the best space combat /trading game for years. - Remember Jennifer Hale voicing Jun'ko Zane - (now Satele Shan and Female trooper VA)

 

It was a spiritual successor to Elite - if anyone remembers that, from back in the early '80s. And I still catch myself flying like I'm in the cockpit of a Cobra Mk-III ( roll and climb or dive to target.....!)

 

Of course, X-wing and it's additions were more SW orientated.

 

And Descent of course. - Which is why I'm a better pilot, whizzing around mesas and asteroids and junkyards, but not so great a combatant! - And probably why I found flying in GSF actually quite natural.

 

Great days!

 

Anyways, back on topic, Experience tops most things in GSF. - Though avoiding poor load-outs is a given. - Though sadly never addressed in-game. (buffing /removing /warning etc.)

[Sehrpalu]

It was a spiritual successor to Elite - if anyone remembers that, from back in the early '80s. And I still catch myself flying like I'm in the cockpit of a Cobra Mk-III ( roll and climb or dive to target.....!)

 

I'm not sure if you already know, but frontier has recently released a new Elite, called Elite Dangerous.

 

Although i've never played the elite from the 80's(though you can get it for free now) i think elite dangerous is pretty damn good, so i would recommend it if you want to play something like the original elite again. It also has multiplayer and an arena mode that is somewhat similar to GSF.

 

Elite also helped me get into GSF relatively easily, despite the two games having a very different combat style.

Though my experience with battlefront 2's space battles helped me get the basics quickly.

[PulseRazor]

The biggest hurdle in getting experience seems to be getting into a match to begin with, I have spent hours in the que with no luck, and while I am in that que I really cant do much other then wait, I cant really even switch toons because then if I do get in a match it will be in a stock ship with T0 upgrades.

 

 

The community is so small, especially on JC. I see the same names in every game and by now I am sure people know who I am, and my skill level. I suspect this makes me a priority target which isnt necessarily bad: I have spent a few games with shots being fired at me the whole time, its forcing me to learn how to avoid them.

 

I do spend time on Harbinger on both factions, this time I spent my first time fleet req on the 2x 2500 FR ships, so now I have one of each class to fly. Now that I have actually been in a gunship I have a better understanding of what they can and can not do, now i just need some matches to happen so I can build on my experience.

 

Please que up.

Edited April 6, 2016 by PulseRazor

[FlavivsAetivs]

Jedi Covenant had a massive activity boom about a month and a half ago, and now the state of GSF is worse off than it was before the boom. Sad really.

 

~ Eudoxia

[SeCKSEgai]

Yeah and a lot of Bant's stats are wrong (e.g. TK Sage should have 1200 Alac while Bant's Min/Max guide has them at 800 and tactics vanguard stats are wrong too and this is because the rotations he uses to calculate these two classes with are totally wrong and are rotations nobody uses so they actually do much more). My class (Infil Shadow) he says you want 3 mastery augments but in reality it's best to max your crit out at 1500-ish (I think 1540 is max), make sure your accuracy is perfect as possible, and then dump the rest into alacrity till it hits 940 and if there's anything left into power.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=847112

 

Bant's guide is simply a mathematical model and at no point did I see him state 3 mastery augments were recommended in said guide. For example

Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration

6291 DPS @ 49.4 APM | 6302 Endurance | 5179 Mastery (Stim) | 2788 Power

1199 Critical (6xE, 1xA, 2xC) | 904 Alacrity (2xE, 8xA) | 685 Accuracy (2xE, 5xA)

 

That's 1 crit aug, 8 alacrity augs, 5 accuracy augs - 14 augs not a single mastery augment.

 

As my main (Réiyn) is an infil shadow as well, I was parsing about 5500 since the kotfe nerfs with 40%/70% crit. I reduced my crit and got it up to about 5800. I could fine tune it some more but I don't parse over and over to max because I'm not running nim and from a practical standpoint mechanics reduce my output more than anything. I place focus more on my combat logs of boss fights to address any trends. Between server lag and my own system's limitations, I'm naturally losing a bit of damage from that alone.

 

Also - Bant's guide lists marksman/sharpshooter as the lowest on the list. As my gunslinger was a sharpshooter for the longest time (Maryss), I noticed her output was very disappointing in kotfe despite the gearing changes. Even before I had seen the guide, I was able to notice in pugging alone that her output was unimpressive. By swapping to dirty fighting, I immediately saw a 500k jump before any fine tuning.

 

Bant even states "The method I used to find the optimal gearing is to build a mathematical model that incorporated as many variables as I could find that defines the combat in Star Wars The Old Republic. This mathematical model was used to test various gear combinations and the result that had the highest average DPS was returned as the optimal value.

 

I am not infallible and all dps, hps and dtps numbers here should therefore be taken with a grain of salt because of this. I do try to continuously learn and improve so the numbers in this post will change with new information and corrections."

 

Yeah I know I did UL in 3.0 when it was bugged usually 99% of the time. I hated pugging story mode TOS/Ravs cause the people couldn't do it. They nerfed story mode now, most people still can't make it past the basic mechanics.

 

As for more "causal players", the game doesn't even cater to them. It's trying to force people into playing solo content now, when we all know group content keeps MMO's alive.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

I essentially ran ToS/Ravs almost exclusively prekotfe because that's where the gear was. I don't recall it bugging 99% of the time....ever. I also essentially pugged it, except for one guild run where 5 people died to the same falling rock. (Most of the people that died to that rock since moved on to HM/Nim progression however .) There were some painful pugs for sure, but overall when people ran said operations then, the average level of skill was far higher, and it had to be since most of the boss fights were more complex than the more dated operations.

 

That's not to say pugs didn't fail or struggle, but that if someone joined in on a Rav's/ToS, they were more likely to actually have taken the time to know how to play their class and gear up within reason. Post Kotfe I've seen folks trying to get by in 192s in hm either expecting to get carried or having no clue as to how poorly it under-performs to even 216 com gear.

 

I even had an evhm that was half a guild try to run a solo tank in the kotfe lvl 60 starting damage gear.

 

I hardly think we're being "forced" to play solo content - I have often found that these delays between chapters typically lead to uninteresting storylines and another grind for companions. But I also feel things have just gotten generally stale. The only new operation that came out since I started is heart of ruin, and no one even bothers with that now that kp/ev hm has taken over that gearing role (vs 198s in sm prekotfe).

[MaximilianPower]

So, I got to play several more games with OP last night, and prior to that he participated in Despon's GSF school session. At this point, he's received a metric crap-ton of advice from some of the best players I know: i.e. Despon, Mikaboshi, Drak (when I left last night they were grouped, I'm assuming the discussion continued after I departed), and a bunch of knowledgeable JC vets like Cevanik and Oscarette. It's a lot to absorb, but from what I saw, I believe he's taking it all in pretty well.

 

So, Pulse, as I told you yesterday: keep at it, things will start to click soon and I'm sure you'll find GSF as rewarding & entertaining as the rest of us do. The slog to ship mastery will not take as long, nor be as painful, as it seems right now.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration

6291 DPS @ 49.4 APM | 6302 Endurance | 5179 Mastery (Stim) | 2788 Power

1199 Critical (6xE, 1xA, 2xC) | 904 Alacrity (2xE, 8xA) | 685 Accuracy (2xE, 5xA)

 

That's 1 crit aug, 8 alacrity augs, 5 accuracy augs - 14 augs not a single mastery augment.

 

Mastery stim/the mastery augs when using an accuracy stim are worthless compared to dumping it into crit. I parse 6100 DPS as infil shadow, with 4950/6354/2744/1474/946/700 (220/224 mix). Crit Adrenals also give far more benefit than power adrenals, as a burst spec.

 

Between server lag and my own system's limitations, I'm naturally losing a bit of damage from that alone.

 

Same.

 

Bant even states "The method I used to find the optimal gearing is to build a mathematical model that incorporated as many variables as I could find that defines the combat in Star Wars The Old Republic. This mathematical model was used to test various gear combinations and the result that had the highest average DPS was returned as the optimal value.

 

I am not infallible and all dps, hps and dtps numbers here should therefore be taken with a grain of salt because of this. I do try to continuously learn and improve so the numbers in this post will change with new information and corrections."

 

I know.

 

I essentially ran ToS/Ravs almost exclusively prekotfe because that's where the gear was. I don't recall it bugging 99% of the time....ever. I also essentially pugged it, except for one guild run where 5 people died to the same falling rock. (Most of the people that died to that rock since moved on to HM/Nim progression however .) There were some painful pugs for sure, but overall when people ran said operations then, the average level of skill was far higher, and it had to be since most of the boss fights were more complex than the more dated operations.

 

That's not to say pugs didn't fail or struggle, but that if someone joined in on a Rav's/ToS, they were more likely to actually have taken the time to know how to play their class and gear up within reason. Post Kotfe I've seen folks trying to get by in 192s in hm either expecting to get carried or having no clue as to how poorly it under-performs to even 216 com gear.

 

I even had an evhm that was half a guild try to run a solo tank in the kotfe lvl 60 starting damage gear.

 

I hardly think we're being "forced" to play solo content - I have often found that these delays between chapters typically lead to uninteresting storylines and another grind for companions. But I also feel things have just gotten generally stale. The only new operation that came out since I started is heart of ruin, and no one even bothers with that now that kp/ev hm has taken over that gearing role (vs 198s in sm prekotfe).

 

I pretty much agree with this.

 

This is all for another forum though. Let's both stop derailing this thread.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 7, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Eldarion_Velator]

Just to add to this I was trying to cap all my guys conquest on imp JC this week. Couldn't do it. after the 4th death match that went 50-~4 against us and every time I came out alemor blew me up. (record was 12 deaths to him in one match) I couldn't make myself queue anymore. Its been real nasty trying to cap with just 250 conquest per wz and only 3 of my guys made it this week before the deadline

 

This is precisely the sort of match behavior that drives away new pilots. While I'm not always successful, I make a personal point of trying to limit the number of times I defeat someone to 2-3 times per match unless a) they're a known ace and/or are a credible threat to my team, or b) they're actively coming after me and won't back off, even after I have. Despite this, I still usually have respectable kill counts/damage/accuracy/etc. As I fly quarrel/condor almost exclusively, I am okay with other teammates finishing off kills and getting credit and am generally not aggressively selfish about nabbing kills myself unless, again, either of the two conditions I mentioned earlier are valid. To me it sounds like this one guy is engaging in what could be considered bullying and picking on a single, relatively hapless target. If he had done this to a known ace, no one should shed a tear, but as this has apparently driven away the person I'm quoting from GSF, it's an example of the sort of thing that veteran pilots must take great care to avoid.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Eldarion_Velator
meant to embolden more text, also person I'm quoting is not OP

[Maulkat]

I got to fly with and against OP last night. One of the matches against him, he actually got a kill on me So after just flying a few rounds with an idea what to do, he's already improving.

GGs and hope to see you around more.

[LadyDarkkitten]

If you are new to GFS your expectations of yourself must be realistic.. If you expect to have 12 kills with 70 k damage 60% accuracy, you will be dooming and discouragng yourself.

 

This is the main reason new people give up. They cannot stand the fact that they have to learn to fly in the first place then shoot and aim, lock on.

 

 

I'll reply to this:

I don't mind a learning curve, its fun to overcome it.

I expect to suck when I first start something new. I know I will get better.

I don't care about dying in a video game. oh noes you killed my pikels! you rotter!

I do care about being useless and not contributing.

I don't think its acceptable for me to be a dead weight for my team.

My right to be bad at this game ends when it starts to effect YOUR enjoyment of it.

When I'm a dead weight and not able to contribute AT ALL I am negatively impacting the other players on my team and common courtesy behooves me to improve or stop queuing.

It may indeed be an unrealistic expectation that I would get 12 kills in a match in my first ten matchs. However to die 15 times without getting any kills is also unrealistic if thats considered an acceptable performance.

"I'm new I need to l2p" is an excuse with only one answer: "l2p then come back"

 

I saw Eudoxia make a comment comparing it to raiding SM ops. Heres the thing in an SM ops you don't need gear bolster will do it for you. You don't need to know the fights we can explain it to you. You don't even really need to know your rotation cos lord knows I taught enough folks how to THAT! You do need to have your skills trained though. If you never bothered to get ravage from the trainer I don't know what to say to you.

 

So yeah I suck at gsf. sucking isn't fun. Being so sucky your team would be better off if you left so they could have a shot at getting someone who wouldn't suck quite as much makes me stop playing. Its not about an unwillingless to improve.

[Danalon]

I'll reply to this:

I don't mind a learning curve, its fun to overcome it.

I expect to suck when I first start something new. I know I will get better.

I don't care about dying in a video game. oh noes you killed my pikels! you rotter!

I do care about being useless and not contributing.

I don't think its acceptable for me to be a dead weight for my team.

My right to be bad at this game ends when it starts to effect YOUR enjoyment of it.

When I'm a dead weight and not able to contribute AT ALL I am negatively impacting the other players on my team and common courtesy behooves me to improve or stop queuing.

It may indeed be an unrealistic expectation that I would get 12 kills in a match in my first ten matchs. However to die 15 times without getting any kills is also unrealistic if thats considered an acceptable performance.

"I'm new I need to l2p" is an excuse with only one answer: "l2p then come back"

 

I saw Eudoxia make a comment comparing it to raiding SM ops. Heres the thing in an SM ops you don't need gear bolster will do it for you. You don't need to know the fights we can explain it to you. You don't even really need to know your rotation cos lord knows I taught enough folks how to THAT! You do need to have your skills trained though. If you never bothered to get ravage from the trainer I don't know what to say to you.

 

So yeah I suck at gsf. sucking isn't fun. Being so sucky your team would be better off if you left so they could have a shot at getting someone who wouldn't suck quite as much makes me stop playing. Its not about an unwillingless to improve.

 

It depends on the reason someone is bad. If it's a new player, trying to learn and giving their best or if it's someone who has 300+ games and still doesn't understand basic concepts of PvP with no desire to improve himself.

I don't mind new players being "bad". I hate players with hundreds of games who still don't contribute in a meaningful way or make the same mistakes over and over, even when explained why their behavior isn't helping the team.

[caederon]

So yeah I suck at gsf. sucking isn't fun. Being so sucky your team would be better off if you left so they could have a shot at getting someone who wouldn't suck quite as much makes me stop playing. Its not about an unwillingless to improve.

You are precisely the sort of pilot whom I am trying to reach out to with the GSFschool sessions I have been holding. If you are willing to improve, you can do it. There are basic elements of gameplay that can make you a contributor to your team even in stock ships. I am entirely confident that with some guidance and a few matches where both teams have equal talent distribution you can be a contributor with a positive effect on the game.

 

Every veteran player knows it's a tough game on new players, and we want as many competent people playing as possible. There is a long list of people who will group with you depending on your server and help you get acquainted with GSF. All you have to do is ask.

 

- Despon

Edited April 8, 2016 by caederon

[FlavivsAetivs]

So I heard the OP had a rough night last night. Was a little bit, in part, my fault (although I wasn't hunting him I was pissed at Oscargo/Oscarette for somehow one-shotting me with a mine). So yeah, sorry, but if I kill you once, and you start coming after me, I'm gonna kill you to get you off my back when you do. I have better things to do in a Domination or TDM than to intentionally hunt new players, although granted one time in that TDM I did go after you to free Tyrr'en from being chased. But that was a strategic move to get our gunship back in play.

 

I am proud of myself thouugh for single-handedly holding "B" sat against a mangler, several razorwires/warcarriers, and a couple of stings/blackbolts for several minutes. And also grabbing a DO and wiping out the entire gunship line at the end of that TDM. Yay for my flying tank! #Screwthemetaships

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 8, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[MaximilianPower]

So I heard the OP had a rough night last night. Was a little bit, in part, my fault (although I wasn't hunting him I was pissed at Oscargo/Oscarette for somehow one-shotting me with a mine). So yeah, sorry, but if I kill you once, and you start coming after me, I'm gonna kill you to get you off my back when you do. I have better things to do in a Domination or TDM than to intentionally hunt new players, although granted one time in that TDM I did go after you to free Tyrr'en from being chased. But that was a strategic move to get our gunship back in play.

 

I am proud of myself thouugh for single-handedly holding "B" sat against a mangler, several razorwires/warcarriers, and a couple of stings/blackbolts for several minutes. And also grabbing a DO and wiping out the entire gunship line at the end of that TDM. Yay for my flying tank! #Screwthemetaships

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Yeah, I gave you a bit of a hard time last night after I heard about that, but upon reflection I guess I can't really pass judgment. So, my apologies if I was a bit harsh. Hearing that he was on the verge of quitting kinda set me off. If he was coming after you, I get it. Handing free kills to new folks may be a friendly gesture, but it isn't the kind of thing I'd actually expect of anyone. Hopefully he learned something in the process.

 

Unfortunately, while I didn't actually run into OP last night, I heard he had a rough time on Harb later on. I think Tsukiyomi was going to attempt to give him a hand, but I'm not sure how that turned out. Hopefully better than his earlier experience on JC.