Arsenal Mercenary is completely overpowerd

[alienwareguy]

What you are complaining about is a ranged vs melee thing, not a merc thing.

 

And out of those merc is hardest, operative easiest and mara in the middle. If you are comparing difficulty of dps rotations, then you have no busyness talking at all about PvP.

 

Also mercs are not among the classes one sees most often in wzs.

 

No, no and NO. you are making false assumptions, and you are also putting words in my mouth. I don't appreciate that at all, and its people like you that make trying to have an intellectual discussion in a forum nearly impossible without turning into a circus. With that being said i'm done with this thread, and the personal attacks. I feel like this is a metaphorical warzone and all the Mercs in swtor are coming here to electronet me to death. I can see I really hit a sensitive spot on you Merc players who main this class, and wanna stop at nothing to dispute my claims like filthy politicians. I don't care anymore to be honest, I just came here to express my opinion which I believe holds merit, that Arsenal Merc is over-performing and needs some toning down. Obviously the only reply's i'm gonna get here is Arsenal players trying extremely hard to defend their class, which I suppose is a thing of human nature. I wish you all the best of luck with your Mercs and I have faith in time something will be changed about Arsenal's damage output regardless of any of our opinions.

[Kaedusz]

No, no and NO. you are making false assumptions

 

I am pretty sure i was just correcting your false statements.

 

For a real circus you should have seen the post which i decided not to post, which contained PvP slang and thrashtalking. I am pretty sure it would have been deleted by a mod though.

 

I am 95 % sure you are trolling but some stuff needs to be corrected in case someone new gets a wrong idea about the state of PvP atm.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Coloneli]

Arsenal Mercs are just borderline OP in 8v8. Nothing more to it.

[foxmob]

Arsenal Mercs are just borderline OP in 8v8. Nothing more to it.

 

they still need a babysitter.

 

sorcs don't. snipers are somewhere in between.

 

it's hard for me to judge in a sense because I miss a lot against snipers and sorcs (their passives + 3/5 white attacks on my end). I still hate fighting snipers. I may have more burst potential in arsenal, but I don't like what chaff flares does (doesn't in truth) absorb from them. AND they can really wreak havoc on 3 of my 5 attacks. so I still cannot go toe to toe with a sniper of similar skill, even with their nerfed surge.

[MuskyBoy]

I'm just waiting for the OP to show me some awesome footage of how overpowered arsenal is in an arena against a deception sin + AP PT opening their burst and goballing you. You don't balance around regs all classes are viable. Play arenas as a merc and watch the lack of self sufficent play you have. Please stream this as well to let players know you are on so you don't show the 1/20 arenas you aren't globalled.

[TarlokUchiwa]

Hello, this thread need new opinions .

 

I'm mostly play warzones as a healer.

 

I can tell you from a healer perspective, when a well played arsenal mercenary is focusing you and you are not guarded and don't have a another healer in your team, you will have trouble to heal yourself up and you will have trouble to survive. Also you will have to concentrate healing on yourself to not to die, you will not have big opportunities to heal your teammates. Furthermore it is very hard to kite or LoS a ars merc. They can use much abilities on the move and only have to cast tracer missile. Additional they have e-net and i have the felling, that i'm always slowed when a ars merc is attacking me.

 

Sure mercs have **** defensive cooldowns and are very squishy in solo rated, but if you only look at their damage, when he freecasts, you can say it is a little bit too much. I mean regular 8-11k rail shot, 11-15k heatseeker, 4-6k blazing bolts per tick, 3x 5-8k tracer missile, 6-10k priming shot in 15sec. -> want to see how you heal through this and healing your team at the same time .

[Campaigner]

Its way harder to kill an arsenal merc than it is a Sorc, don't kid yourself.

What game does this person play?

Edited March 28, 2016 by Campaigner

[MuskyBoy]

I can tell you from a healer perspective, when a well played arsenal mercenary is focusing you and you are not guarded and don't have a another healer in your team, you will have trouble to heal yourself up and you will have trouble to survive. Also you will have to concentrate healing on yourself to not to die, you will not have big opportunities to heal your teammates. Furthermore it is very hard to kite or LoS a ars merc. They can use much abilities on the move and only have to cast tracer missile. Additional they have e-net and i have the felling, that i'm always slowed when a ars merc is attacking me.

 

Sure mercs have **** defensive cooldowns and are very squishy in solo rated, but if you only look at their damage, when he freecasts, you can say it is a little bit too much. I mean regular 8-11k rail shot, 11-15k heatseeker, 4-6k blazing bolts per tick, 3x 5-8k tracer missile, 6-10k priming shot in 15sec. -> want to see how you heal through this and healing your team at the same time :

 

No offense but you aren't healing properly then. Your job as a healer first and foremost is to stay alive (you can't heal when dead) second of all you should be in a position where you can escape easily and thirdly no one dps class puts out enough damage regardless of burst to put down a healer if they know what they are doing.

[Romeugues]

Hello, this thread need new opinions .

 

I'm mostly play warzones as a healer.

 

I can tell you from a healer perspective, when a well played arsenal mercenary is focusing you and you are not guarded and don't have a another healer in your team, you will have trouble to heal yourself up and you will have trouble to survive. Also you will have to concentrate healing on yourself to not to die, you will not have big opportunities to heal your teammates. Furthermore it is very hard to kite or LoS a ars merc. They can use much abilities on the move and only have to cast tracer missile. Additional they have e-net and i have the felling, that i'm always slowed when a ars merc is attacking me.

 

Sure mercs have **** defensive cooldowns and are very squishy in solo rated, but if you only look at their damage, when he freecasts, you can say it is a little bit too much. I mean regular 8-11k rail shot, 11-15k heatseeker, 4-6k blazing bolts per tick, 3x 5-8k tracer missile, 6-10k priming shot in 15sec. -> want to see how you heal through this and healing your team at the same time .

Heatseeker hits for 22k~ once a minute, bit more than what you put, just to be a stickler.

[Gyronamics]

i have the felling, that i'm always slowed when a ars merc is attacking me.

 

Cos you are.

 

Blazing Bolts is the main slow and it's really very strong but they can also spend one point so that Tracer Missile slows you for a while.

 

They can't kite for long because Tracer can't be done on the move consistently and Blazing Bolts goes on cooldown eventually but for short periods they can make a target crawl around so they can't LOS without using a mobility tool.

 

The slows work fine for helping deliver Arsenals burst mostly.

[Lhancelot]

They can't kite for long because Tracer can't be done on the move consistently and Blazing Bolts goes on cooldown eventually but for short periods they can make a target crawl around so they can't LOS without using a mobility tool.

 

Yeah, it's during these inbetween points when melee like juggs and marauders have their opportunity to **** all over the merc.

 

Good mara and juggs are very adept at closing the gap on mercs and using their defensives to nullify the mercs damage, then when the merc blows all their defensives the melee take a big **** all over the merc.

 

It really takes some serious coordination/skill and luck for a merc to manage and kill a good marauder or juggernaut solo who has all their defensives up. Sins, Ops, and PTs can also eat mercs for breakfast.

 

Yes, I know. Mercs can kill all of the above, but let's be honest equally skilled merc versus certain classes and the merc is at a disadvantage when in a 1v1 and all defensives are available to both.

 

In a nutshell, when left to freecast, a merc has obscene readily available burst that has a fairly simple delivery. when focused and tunneled the merc is the easiest class to shutdown, making it frustrating to play against quality, competent DPS that are not stupid.

[Raideen]

PLEASE someone teach me how to get 7k ticks on electronet!!!

 

Secondly. I would argue that merc damage is not high enough, that is not compared to their complete lack of defenses.

 

Either buff merc defenses or increase their damage because as a whole they are not perfoming well at all in rated pvp. Everyone knows that a merc left alone is dangerous, but a merc who is sat on is useless.

 

Tunneling a class to shut them down should never be a viable strategy. It's too easy of a strat to execute.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Raideen

[Lhancelot]

PLEASE someone teach me how to get 7k ticks on electronet!!!

 

Secondly. I would argue that merc damage is not high enough, that is not compared to their complete lack of defenses.

 

Either buff merc defenses or increase their damage because as a whole they are not perfoming well at all in rated pvp. Everyone knows that a merc left alone is dangerous, but a merc who is sat on is useless.

 

Tunneling a class to shut them down should never be a viable strategy. It's too easy of a strat to execute.

 

You cannot increase their damage. They already perform at a highend dps lvl in pvp. And if they improved their defensives, I hate to tell you this, but they'd have to dampen some of that damage.

[Kiesu]

Maras or snipers not being a guaranteed first place on damage done is old news and the same counts for pts, sorcs, sins, operatives and juggs not only mercs. Again, as above, this is not a merc issue

 

It is not merc-only issue. Its all off-heal or off-tank class issue. Mara/Snipe cannot assist the team in any other way than by DPSing. Atleast Sniper has range and a great big shield to help the group endure, but if enemy team is controlling mid and killing you on the doorway, all mara can do in a push attempt is jump in, die a little, retreat and bunnyhop in a corner till healer is unoccupied and heals him. Merc in this situation has range, he doesnt have to go near a dozen roots to deal damage, and if hald dead can run away and instead of bunnyhopping in a corner can heal themselves. Quite a clear difference of productivity difference there in more than just dps numbers.

[Kaedusz]

It is not merc-only issue. Its all off-heal or off-tank class issue. Mara/Snipe cannot assist the team in any other way than by DPSing. Atleast Sniper has range and a great big shield to help the group endure, but if enemy team is controlling mid and killing you on the doorway, all mara can do in a push attempt is jump in, die a little, retreat and bunnyhop in a corner till healer is unoccupied and heals him. Merc in this situation has range, he doesnt have to go near a dozen roots to deal damage, and if hald dead can run away and instead of bunnyhopping in a corner can heal themselves. Quite a clear difference of productivity difference there in more than just dps numbers.

 

That's only in a worst case scenario for mara and best case scenario for merc. Also i would argue that the mara group speed buff is helping the team more.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Floplag]

PLEASE someone teach me how to get 7k ticks on electronet!!!

 

Secondly. I would argue that merc damage is not high enough, that is not compared to their complete lack of defenses.

 

Either buff merc defenses or increase their damage because as a whole they are not perfoming well at all in rated pvp. Everyone knows that a merc left alone is dangerous, but a merc who is sat on is useless.

 

Tunneling a class to shut them down should never be a viable strategy. It's too easy of a strat to execute.

 

This ...

 

Is our damage high, yes, is it high enough to justify being globaled under focus, no.

 

The merc tunnel strategy lemmings spout this constantly in every match, especially 4 mans and yet seemingly have no idea why this is the case. It literally takes so little effort or any real skill to do. Its kinda why i laugh when people give me greif for killing me like they achieved something... you killed a Merc, grats, i guess, lol

 

Our defenses are light beer versions of other classes and they are easily shredded. Any organized team can take us out in seconds, it isnt hard, we cant stop it ourselves so unless the teams helps us we will go out. This should not be the case for any class in a game where escapes are so apparent in other places. It would truly be so easy to fix without putting us into fotm stage, but someone at Bio needs to want to fix it, and they clearly dont.

[Floplag]

You cannot increase their damage. They already perform at a highend dps lvl in pvp. And if they improved their defensives, I hate to tell you this, but they'd have to dampen some of that damage.

 

Why? i see this in every argument about this topic... our dps is not significantly higher than others that have far more survivability. There is zero reason to assume a damage nerf is required to fix the class.

 

If you do that you kill the class in PvE. Why are people so intent on killing this class in one side or another?

[Kiesu]

That's only in a worst case scenario for mara and best case scenario for merc. Also i would argue that the mara group speed buff is helping the team more.

 

If they are moving around a lot- sure mara buff helps. Not that merc really needs it they have their own speedbuff But in stationary fights you dont really do anything with mara speed buffs and the utility points would be better used elsewehere, if only you could respec utilities _after_ you know what map you're getting.

Not to mention, if there is no actual heals on the map, well maras can go bunny hop in the corner for a minute or two waiting for combat to drop and pray all the dots dont kill him before that happens.

 

There is really no downside in being a merc in 8v8. Theres a lot of downsides being mara on 8v8. Mercs have issues on 1v1, but since there isnt even map or quest for that i dont see how this is an issue to be taken seriously. You just dont 1v1 and rather turret mid Theres a reason why duel strong classes with fast CDs are stuck guarding the objectives all day long.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Kiesu

[Fellow-Canadian]

If PVP was a target dummy fight then it would be amazing for aresenal mercs. When the target dummies fight back and can survive better than a merc it highlights how brittle class balance has become. The class as a whole simply isn't competitive in the current PVP meta and the extra damage becomes a liability.

 

Arsenal can do well in regs but I would never consider taking the class into any ranked PVP. I have to say the damage is enough to kill a sorc healer, which is saying something.

[kweassa]

Why? i see this in every argument about this topic... our dps is not significantly higher than others that have far more survivability. There is zero reason to assume a damage nerf is required to fix the class.

 

If you do that you kill the class in PvE. Why are people so intent on killing this class in one side or another?

 

The question I would be asking is, "why are people so obsessed with portraying a class/character's role in terms of only defense and damage". Where's utility?

 

Every argument concerning 'weak' or 'strong' classes is entirely one-dimensional here. People only see classes under the numerical context -- they either count the damage numbers, or healing numbers. They never seem to be interested in all the actions a class can do that doesn't show up in any of the end-game scoreboard.

 

How much worth is a sent/mara's team buff in combat? Does that show up specifically in terms of damage or heal numbers? It doesn't -- and yet, sent/maras are almost always very highly recommended thanks to their team buffs.

 

I don't see why this shouldn't be the case for merc/mandos. That's why I keep asking for heal debuffs, so we can make this perceived 'weak' class a powerful frontpage news to introduce as a tool of anti-sorc/sage suppression. If there's any other, different functionalities the class can serve, that's also fine by me.

 

The point would be thinking out of the box. Why do we need to make every class simply a homogenized/reskinned version of the other by dealing in one-dimensional comparisons? If a merc simply becomes any higher DPS class, then essentially what's the difference between a merc/mando and a guns/sniper as a ranged DPS? The "looks" may be different as in one of them moves around while the other is stationary, but the role they fill is exactly the same.

 

Let's try not limit everything to either damage or defense. Why not have those lacking attributes a unique trait of what makes up for a merc/mando, and then as compensation give something totally different? I mean, stuff like Electronet for example, stuff like this is good. No other class has this kind of unique utility -- shutting down movement powers.

 

Why stop there? Give merc/mandos some more of such unique stuff which only they can do.

[Kaedusz]

I think this is not the best thread to talk about merc related stuff. The title being bumped up gives wrong impressions. Edited March 28, 2016 by Kaedusz

[foxmob]

Arsenal can do well in regs but I would never consider taking the class into any ranked PVP. I have to say the damage is enough to kill a sorc healer, which is saying something.

 

they can do ok in grankd, but they need a lot of babysitting. not really carry so much as...attention. if spec'd to turret and given solid peels and guard, they can really wreck face. unfortunately, it's very easy to avoid their burst. like...ok. he just started his channel. can you guess what comes next? here's a hint, it's yellow dmg and has a delay for some reason between when it's activated and when it hits me. maybe I should pop a cd at that time.

[Kaedusz]

If they are moving around a lot- sure mara buff helps. Not that merc really needs it they have their own speedbuff But in stationary fights you dont really do anything with mara speed buffs and the utility points would be better used elsewehere, if only you could respec utilities _after_ you know what map you're getting.

Not to mention, if there is no actual heals on the map, well maras can go bunny hop in the corner for a minute or two waiting for combat to drop and pray all the dots dont kill him before that happens.

 

There is really no downside in being a merc in 8v8. Theres a lot of downsides being mara on 8v8. Mercs have issues on 1v1, but since there isnt even map or quest for that i dont see how this is an issue to be taken seriously. You just dont 1v1 and rather turret mid Theres a reason why duel strong classes with fast CDs are stuck guarding the objectives all day long.

 

I find playing mara easier, his cds and gameplay just flow better for me. In general both of these classes are most fun in PvP imo, atm.

Also the speed is pretty important even in trench warfare fests.

* * *

The downside of being a merc is being the guy that every1 would give his left nut to take a piece of. No bubble, no strong escapes to annoy you. And also really skilled mercs are super rare. Not a small chunk of 3.0 and first half of KoTFE i was a mara and jugg, so i am saying this from that perspective.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Kiesu]

I find playing mara easier, his cds and gameplay just flow better for me. In general both of these classes are most fun in PvP imo, atm.

* * *

The downside of being a merc is being the guy that every1 would give his left nut to take a piece of. No bubble, no strong escapes to annoy you. And also really skilled mercs are super rare. Not a small chunk of 3.0 and first half of KoTFE i was a mara, so i am saying this from that perspective.

*has pvpd on all possible ACs before and after kotfe* Well I'm glad you play two classes sir, im sure thats plenty perspective for you

Trust me, have enough juggs and maras between you and the other team, no melee will want a piece of you. Range will propably try to nab at you but that isnt anything backwards leap or quick hydraulics kite and quick heal wont fix. You wont even get hit with most slows and roots back there. If you're sitting melee range you're doing this erc thing wrong. Just stay mid with group and you'll top the scores, safe and sound. You can even spam aoe at attempt cappers for extra efficiency with no cooldowns or worry of getting knocked out of range to interrupt cast! I play both classes too, and plenty others, and if you are saying mara is better for 8v8 soloque with objectives in mind, you are mistaken. Maras are currently healer-chasers or between-objective-runners because their utilities wont allow for much else against snare, aoe and knock heavy teams. Something Mercs dont need to care much about, you're no less threat to a sorc snared than you would be unsnared.

 

Maras have better cooldowns you say? sure, they got two great cooldowns, that have 3min cooldown. Rest of the time they are class cannons without a babysitter, bunnyhopping in that corner. Your heal as a merc is a cooldown on its own, and you get 5-times stackable overall dmg reduction with a utility. What would make you pick mara over a merc for 8v8 soloque, exactly? (and other reason that just enjoying the class more, I like Maras too and insist playing them in pvp as much as the next class, that doesnt mean they are in any way more viable than another)

 

//

Those were/are my mains in recent times. Didn't say they are all i have played.

I take it you have nothing to add to what was said after. Thought so.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Kiesu

[Kaedusz]

Well I'm glad you play two classes sir, im sure thats plenty perspective for you

Those were/are my mains in recent times. You know, as opposed to alts? Didn't say they are all i have played.

 

Didn't fully read the rest, except a few sentences throughout but all my online time is spend either in queue or inside wzs so you don't need to give explanations as to what happens during PvP.

* * *

Did i say maras have better or worse cds than another class? No. I said it flows better for me.

* * *

edit: just read the rest: Most of what you said is not opposite or counter-point to what i have said. Are we just casually chatting now?

Edited March 28, 2016 by Kaedusz