100% PVP Incredible Case Files Testable and Varifiable

[dipstik]

this is the closest thing we have:

 

http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/cb/2012_thumbs/meet_developers/graph.jpg

[peter_plankskull]

this is the closest thing we have:

 

http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/cb/2012_thumbs/meet_developers/graph.jpg

 

Dates all the way back to patch 1.4... however its all we got at the moment, so thank you for posting this.

[knowmyname]

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Oh wait, you're serious. I'll tell ya' what, go roll an Asmodian in Aion, get to 25 and go to the abyss with all your "skill" in PvP, and come back and let me know how long it took you to rage quit. Stay off the fast track server, where PvPvE is impossible.

 

After you do that, you can tell me what relevance PvP has to the main storyline. How does Huttball affect the Sith Warrior story? There are aspects of the game in Aion that you cannot play if your faction does not control a certain section. Which aspects of swtor am I locked out of if the Pubs don't win Huttball? Are there places I can't go if the Imps don't win? No? So a totally irrelevant aspect of the game is now somehow super important?

 

The answer to that question is, of course, yes. It's important to you. To me, and all the people that have come here because I did? Nope. I stay because I like the stories, and the game in general. They left because they wanted a meaningful PvP experience, and it's not available here. It doesn't have anything to do with "bad". My assassin got all her comms from PvP on Ilum, Oricon and Section X. Notice anything there? None of it is 1 2 3 go variation of PvP that you seem to think requires being "good" at PvP. It's all open world "surprise" PvP. That's the true test of PvPers, not duels, or 4 on 4 duels with PvE objectives. This is why for all the talk about "bads", the PvP servers are ghost towns, all those "quality" PvPers couldn't handle it and moved to PvE servers. So spare me the "you're only saying that because you're bad" mantra. It was stale 20 years ago. PvP here has no meaning, other than epeen. My real peen is big enough that I don't need an artificial one swollen up.

 

I play Asmodian on an Elyos dominated server in Aion. Dominated is the right word, last check, it was 10 to 1 E to A. There, we hear all about bads, when a 2 person group rolls a 6 person group of Elyos, and they run to the forums trying to claim that 2 people zerged their 6 man group. You strike me as one of "those guys" with PvP. The real PvPers there, from either faction, have the same reaction to those posts: Are you delusional? I digress. PvP has no affect at all on the game. Nothing changes if one faction or another wins a duel, er, match. Ranked means absolutely nothing. Nothing changes if one faction or the other has a higher count on the leaderboards. It's a FP with 2 factions in it, nothing else.

States he isn't about EPEEN yet entire post is full of EPEEN brags from other games...

 

I've done operations, quickly bored with it, PvP is much more engaging. Most war zones are different whereas PvE is scripted. That's all my post was about. Scripted PvE where players put timers on bosses using third party programs - or a fluid PvP when you don't really know what's coming next.

 

For those that came away with something else, you may need a reading comprehension class.

Edited March 17, 2016 by knowmyname

[peter_plankskull]

States he isn't about EPEEN yet entire post is full of EPEEN brags...

 

I've done operations, quickly bored with it, PvP is much more engaging. Most war zones are different whereas PvE is scripted.

 

Ill admit Robert does at times have a eppen... at times a very large one, however he clearly makes a point: PVP is not relevant outside of itself and is of little consequence in this game.

 

If PVP is so much more engaging than operations, then state WHY. Otherwise its just a subjective opinion and changes from each user.

[Warrgames]

Ill admit Robert does at times have a eppen... at times a very large one, however he clearly makes a point: PVP is not relevant outside of itself and is of little consequence in this game.

 

If PVP is so much more engaging than operations, then state WHY. Otherwise its just a subjective opinion and changes from each user.

 

He did.

 

What bashing?

 

I'm simply making a statement and the general differences between scripted operation gameplay and the very fluid PvP gameplay.

 

I think you're letting emotions cloud your judgements of others

 

Which I disagree with since 90% of PvP match are nothing more than lop side mess.

[knowmyname]

He did.

 

 

 

Which I disagree with since 90% of PvP match are nothing more than lop side mess.

 

I wouldn't say 90%, at least on shadowlands during the weekdays. It's rare I logon in the evenings or weekends. I'm only passing on what I have seen.

 

Though the current trend is War Zone Tourists. Getting companions on Alts. I have seen more and more of these playing over the past week. Some are fresh 65's with insta-60 gear still.

 

This gear-gap others speak of in war zones only exists because player either don't know how to bolster or are too lazy to gear properly using bolster on PvE gear. You can reach 2018 expertise in PvE gear. I will even off assistance to these players if they request it or are open to it.

 

The 2 PvP gear stats don't have much difference between them.

 

I can't count how many times I've been in operations and watch PvP geared players get the boot and harassed for wearing PvP gear in story mode. If they know the fights and know their roles, they will be fine, at least they have set bonus gear and relics. Whereas most of the players harassing them don't.

 

I'm still laughing at the simple minded casual gamers that attempted to troll my previous posts. They validated my points.

Edited March 17, 2016 by knowmyname

[casirabit]

Okay here is the data from Ebon Hawk (8:30 p..m. Eastern time 3/17/2016). Yes it is not the server you are on but it is the one I play on and the only one I play on.

 

 

 

1. corellia square-0

2. orbital station-0-

3. mesa arena-0-

4. tatooine canyon-4-

5. hypergate-8-

6. coast-0-

7. voidstar-8-

8. the pit (covers both huttballs)-7

9. civil war-0-

 

I want you to count how many active players are in those as you search each one.

 

After that then I want you to check some of these.

 

1. scum and villainy-31

2. dread fortress-35

3. terror from beyond-0-

4. lost island-0-

5. athiss-3-

6. czerka-4-

7. mandalorian-8-

8. boarding -0-

9, maelstrom-3-

10. taral v-7-

11. foundry-0-

12. flase emperor-5-

13. cadumimu-0-

14. hammer station -4-

15. esseles-11

[Vashadan]

1st off, I did not do the test. I felt that it was not necessary. Once you spend a certain amount of time playing the game you get a feeling in which activity you might find ppl to play with, and at what time of the day.

And forget about the solo que aspect being in favor of PvP, PvE has it the same way PvP does and with Bioware making FPs almost entirely tactical you can find ppl for it almost all the time.

The only "slow" que on TRE is GSF, and even that pops well enough.

During prime time the PvP que times on TRE range from a minute to 5, depending on the bracket but you can get into a match well after midnight, at least as a 65.

Operation groups form all the time, lately many looking for HM runs.

Maybe the reason is that TRE is 1 of the last vibrant servers on EU side but the last few months with Kotfe have taken its toll on the population numbers.

 

And now for the bummer...and my real issue with both sides of the coin.

 

I used to laugh at ppl who made claims how PvP does not matter in this game. Now I just shake my head and think to myself most of us know better. Liked by some, hated by others but to those who decide what it will be it seems to matter the least.

Plenty of ppl still play the PvP aspect of this game, but like a few stated before it is slowly dying.

This is not doomsaying, as I was apparently called out for that more than once but just a wild observation since I do tend to stick around a few days after a new chapter is released.

And the declining numbers after each release just show how little is left for ppl to "hang" on to for a longer period of time.

 

Last but not least...

The really sad part is when ppl try to compare PvP to PvE.

That is like comparing your every day John Doe wanting to have some keyboard+mouseclick fun whilst watching lightsabers and flashes of light everywhere, and a casual who just wants to see a new cinematic and do some group content against an enemy 5times his size, getting some better "stuff" and feel a sense of acomplishment afterwards.

Or take the other example, a hardcore pvper who checks for: stim,grenade,medpacks,adrenals,keybinds and anything else I might have forgotten against a "raider" who does not bother with SM content once he/she surpsasses gaining the edge within that content, who knows that augments make the difference and the synergy between his group members aswell as the execution of needed mechanics will certanly mean the difference between defeat and victory.

 

All I am saying is, do not take either side for granted, there are bads on both sides but the really baffling fact is the potential PvP has in this game.

Something something minigame.....

[MiloUto]

You missed some PvE areas. Let me complete it for you:

 

 

 

16. Tython

17. Ord Mandtell

18. Korriban

19. Hutta

20. Coruscant

21. Kaas

22. Taris

23. Nar Shaadda

24. Belsavis

25. Tatooine

26. Hoth

27. Alderaan

28. Voss

29. Corellia

30. Zakuul

31. CZ-198

32. Oricon

33. Yavin

34. Rishi

35. Ziost

36. Ilum

37. Quesh

 

 

I'm sure I missed some.

edit: I did miss some

 

Also I think you might need to add all of the "On the Rails" Star Fighter stuff, Player ships, Player Strongholds, Guild ships, and Guild Strongholds. Now we might be getting closer to a complete list of where to find PvE peeps.

 

I also would like to says that I both both PvE and PvP. Does that make me a Good Bad?

[Ansultares]

Anyone who says they are here only or primarily for the PvP is either lying, does not really want to PvP all that much or simply must do their PvP in a Star Wars MMO.

So I'm either lying, don't PvP as much as I actually do, or I really want to PvP in a Star Wars MMO (when I didn't even play SWG)?

 

That's news to me. Do I owe you some gratitude for putting words in my mouth?

[psandak]

It is 6pm server on the Harbinger. I signed in to a character in my NS SH and...

 

Myth Busted...

 

60 in EV (Priority OP this week)

In all of PvP there are 61.

 

A single operation equates to ALL of PvP.

 

Not to mention...

there are 98 characters on NS

Coruscant has at least 100

Taris 68

Tatooine 79

 

16 in DF

8 in KP

 

YES, FP are non-existent (lots of zeros and small amounts)

 

6 in T5

3 in MP

7 in Ess

8 in HS

 

But PvP is not as big a piece of the pie as the OP suggests.

Edited March 18, 2016 by psandak

[Ansultares]

There's what, 3 ghost town PvP servers?

PvP and pvp servers are different beasts.

 

The world/zone layout in this game killed world PvP. Any game which tries to designate PvP areas does a poor job of generating PvP. So much of the content offered to each faction takes you nowhere near the other faction. Great world PvP develops organically, by overlapping content for opposing factions, and through faction-neutral content; think vailla Hillsbrad or Stranglethorn Vale.

 

World PvP is what drives PvP servers, and its not good in this game.

 

But, in the age of instanced PvP and grievance-mongering casual PvEers, world PvP has taken a backseat. In SWTOR, PvP is instanced PvP: ranked arena and unranked warzones. And technically GSF, but lets not go there.

 

PvP enthusiasts are better off transferring to a server such as The Harbinger, because it will offer them more activity. This is probably true as well of world PvP, if the pvp servers really are ghost towns.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Ansultares

[robertthebard]

But that's not really the point, is it? The point is that while this thread is in the context of pvp, pve goes the same way. If you throw a pot of flowers in a dark closet and give it no water, it's not going to thrive. PvP WAS popular and very active until it was allowed to wither away with lack of updates and new content.

 

I think you have cause and effect backwards here: PvP demonstrated that it can't sustain itself, and so, got put on the back burner. It didn't get put on the backburner and die off, slow down, which ever you prefer. It died down and got put on the back burner because other parts of the game were busier.

[robertthebard]

I know the metrics are from 4 years ago and don't represent the majority of the people today, but you have to keep in mind the difference between killing a player, and killing a NPC.

 

Most standard mobs come in packs of 3, and depending where I am, I can melt most of that standard mob with the smugglers sweeping blasters skill, and the skill itself takes 4.5 seconds to channel without a boost to alacrity. To kill a real thinking player, they will most likely throw up CDs, heals, and CC, and on top of that, its not the easiest to find a player compared to killing a NPC. NPCs are flooded throughout the entire game and its MUCH harder to find a actual living, breathing, and flagged player, usually impossible to find them flagged.

 

Not only are NPCs are in a MUCH larger abundance, but they are much easier to find, and much easier to kill compared to actual players.

 

I do. If a sorc heals you while you kill a person, it's 2 kills. If three people are hitting that one person, it's 3 kills when he dies. Since the typical WZ is 4 vs 4, we should be dividing those results by 4 for an average player death score, instead of the way they're actually calculated, right? Isn't that how a WZ works, after all? It's not one death equals one kill, one death can equal 4 kills in a match, if all 4 people are hitting that one guy. At least that's how it was explained earlier in this thread.

[Vashadan]

It is 6pm server on the Harbinger. I signed in to a character in my NS SH and...

 

Myth Busted...

 

60 in EV (Priority OP this week)

In all of PvP there are 61.

 

A single operation equates to ALL of PvP.

 

Not to mention...

there are 98 characters on NS

Coruscant has at least 100

Taris 68

Tatooine 79

 

16 in DF

8 in KP

 

YES, FP are non-existent (lots of zeros and small amounts)

 

6 in T5

3 in MP

7 in Ess

8 in HS

 

But PvP is not as big a piece of the pie as the OP suggests.

 

It certanly is not, but the OP took numbers that can not be tracked properly as the current "position" of any player does not necessarily represent their current or immediate interest.

I could be on Hoth, being in que for PvP all the time, just w8ing for a pop whilst using my "free" time to do my story, pursue heroics or maybe do some GSI related missions.

On the other hand, some1 might enter a warzone because his or her guild needs another 20mins so that the last members log in and they can attempt clearing SaV on HM. If you take the numbers while a 220 geared player is just passing time in a warzone...

 

Hence why these figures, altough with some meaning in terms of location accountability do not really show any data to provide serious feedback on a players primary interest ingame.

 

OWPvP is almost but dead, there is little to no incentive apart from the Gree event and alike to do it, and since we have not had any real content when it comes to PvP the number of ppl playing it has been in a steady decline.

Now some1 will probably ask how I come up with this statement and dare me to back it up. Since there is no new ranked season on the horizon, and apart from a step in the right direction with a cross-server warzone coming soon "tm" the impact PvP has on player numbers has become less relevant. Simply because there are less ppl playing PvP, but you can count on most ppl apart from planets being in the daily/weekly operation.

 

But I am sure that ppl read post by longtime "raiders" announcing leaving the game because there will be no new operations any time soon.

Maybe all of this was not even worth bringing up but I agree on 1 thing with the OP: PvP is not irrelevant, Bioware would not bother working on new maps if it was so.

But they do seem to make it look like they only bother with PvP once every full moon.

[ludoviccb]

There was the dev post before 4.0 that said majority of the players play story. That more recent post by the devs; 2015 versus 2014... You talk about how major the number is because of time to kill and number of NPC in a group. Yet shortly after launch there was a bunch of high level players camping lowbies. Screwed up PvP brackets. Those numbers are from BW Third Year Anniversary promo. Which sounds better 1.7 billion or 600 million?

 

Context of numbers...

 

 

 

It was relevant 2 months after launch...

 

That post by the devs was about the story data during the 12XP last summer. It's kind of easy to get data that say people do mostly story when you get 12XP for the story quests and people are leveling an army of alts. One thing that my statistic classes taught me is that you can make your data and statistics say almost anything if you know when to take them. Which is why we had to learn how to avoid all those biais.

[robertthebard]

That post by the devs was about the story data during the 12XP last summer. It's kind of easy to get data that say people do mostly story when you get 12XP for the story quests and people are leveling an army of alts. One thing that my statistic classes taught me is that you can make your data and statistics say almost anything if you know when to take them. Which is why we had to learn how to avoid all those biais.

 

Such as the information the OP wants to use.

 

As an aside here, as the previous poster made a comment about PvP not being irrelevant: When I say it is irrelevant to the game, that's exactly what I mean, and I have shown this to be true.

 

It doesn't matter which faction wins a WZ, nothing in the main game changes. When a faction wins a fortress in Aion, the other faction can't enter it. When ownership of a dungeon in Rappelz is contested, the actual owner of the dungeon could change, leaving one guild w/out that income. These are relevant, measurable changes in the main game due to PvP. Nothing like this occurs in swtor. These kinds of things are important to some people, including me. I list these specific examples because they are timed, and in Rappelz' case, take place in a private instance, similar to a WZ. There is a PvE objective, kill the opponent's switch. However, getting to that switch is a fight, and will continue to be, because you respawn after a death close to that switch.

 

In Aion, you have to kill the Commander of the fortress, but that's a highly contested fight, and there is no private instance, so you could easily have 400 people fighting over that Commander. Hell, I've seen 400 Elyos show up to a fort vs 200 Asmos. There's nothing 1 2 3 go about it, other than when the fortress becomes vulnerable, and can you out last the timer for when it goes invulnerable, and once the Commander is dead, it's over. These are examples of relevant PvP, can anyone point me to anything like this in swtor?

[Max_Killjoy]

There are different sorts of "relevant".

 

PvP is largely irrelevant to the ongoing story, access to other content, etc -- and that's how it should be. Players not interested in PvP should be able to log in, play the game, and never think about, worry about, or be affected by PvP. The M1-4X / Pierce thing pushing people into PvP is a mistake.

 

However, that doesn't make PvP irrelevant to the people who enjoy PvP, and therefore, it's not irrelevant to the game in terms of engaging and retaining those players.

[robertthebard]

There are different sorts of "relevant".

 

PvP is largely irrelevant to the ongoing story, access to other content, etc -- and that's how it should be. Players not interested in PvP should be able to log in, play the game, and never think about, worry about, or be affected by PvP. The M1-4X / Pierce thing pushing people into PvP is a mistake.

 

However, that doesn't make PvP irrelevant to the people who enjoy PvP, and therefore, it's not irrelevant to the game in terms of engaging and retaining those players.

 

The access applies to everyone in Aion. If your faction doesn't control a fortress, you can't run the instance in that fortress. This doesn't require everyone to participate in the sieges, some can't, as I indicated, I've seen 600 players in one spot for a siege, and not everyone has a rig that can handle that. However, it does keep PvPers playing, because they get to see their guild name on the "Controlled by xxx" statement, making mean something more than "I got to teabag that noob". This lack of rewards or consequences is what caused my PvPcentric friends to leave.

 

I agree that Pierce and 4X were a huge mistake on one hand, but on the other hand, unless they gate other comps behind those two, it's not a big deal to me. I won't set foot in a WZ, and so I won't have either of these comps on toons that can't just walk in and say "screw that, let's go", SW and Trooper. What will suck is if I can't get another comp because I didn't do it. I believe I commented on the artificially inflating PvP numbers with this tactic when it first came out, however, and stand by my assertion that to the main game, PvP is irrelevant, because nothing in the main game changes, no matter what happens in a WZ. Conquest would have been the perfect opportunity to make it matter even a little, and they dropped the ball on it.

[Max_Killjoy]

Right, I just want there to be some clarity between saying "PvP is irrelevant to the broader game" (which is largely true) and "PvP is irrelevant", which isn't true to the people who love PvP.

 

 

Of course, that ecumenical attitude towards all sort of players and content isn't easy to maintain when some of the most vocal advocates for some of the types of gameplay are also hell-bent on maintaining a "do you even _____, bro?" / "play the game my way or G-T-F-O" attitude towards everyone else.

 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[Warrgames]

That post by the devs was about the story data during the 12XP last summer. It's kind of easy to get data that say people do mostly story when you get 12XP for the story quests and people are leveling an army of alts. One thing that my statistic classes taught me is that you can make your data and statistics say almost anything if you know when to take them. Which is why we had to learn how to avoid all those biais.

 

Ok Mr Tinfoil Hat...

You talk about taking statistics and understanding number analyze. Never once did they say their figures were from the summer of 12x. That is just some tinfoil hat BS players like you says because it fits your idea of what the numbers mean. People claim BW/EA only cares about making as much money as possible. So please explain this to me all knowing. Why a money grubbing company would back burner content that the player base wants and release content that the players didn't play? Not only that but use bad data to support this? 12x was done to support the move to more story ordinated content. Get a chance for new players to get up to KotFE. But hey keep living in your tinfoil hat world. As Arcaan said "Nonsense repeated doesn't make it truth." Which is what these forums are full. nonsense being repeated as if its the truth.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Warrgames

[Andryah]

There are different sorts of "relevant".

 

PvP is largely irrelevant to the ongoing story, access to other content, etc -- and that's how it should be. Players not interested in PvP should be able to log in, play the game, and never think about, worry about, or be affected by PvP. The M1-4X / Pierce thing pushing people into PvP is a mistake.

 

However, that doesn't make PvP irrelevant to the people who enjoy PvP, and therefore, it's not irrelevant to the game in terms of engaging and retaining those players.

 

IMO, PvP is relevant to people who like to PvP and like the PvP in this game.

 

That said, being an old school MMO player, I don't see PvP as relevant to the game per se. Unlike some other MMOs.... there is no larger benefit to the server community that is driven by player PvP.

 

So PvP for SWTOR ------- Relevant to the player that loves PvP.. yep. Relevant to the actual game and server community when there is zero consequence or benefit for PvP outcomes..nope.

 

If they really want to amp up the persistence of interest in PvP, they need to make real guild wide and server wide incentives for 1) doing PvP and 2) doing it well and benefiting your guild and faction. I don't see it happening though.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Andryah

[Max_Killjoy]

IMO, PvP is relevant to people who like to PvP and like the PvP in this game.

 

That said, being an old school MMO player, I don't see PvP as relevant to the game per se. Unlike some other MMOs.... there is no larger benefit to the server community that is driven by player PvP.

 

So PvP for SWTOR ------- Relevant to the player that loves PvP.. yep. Relevant to the actual game and server community when there is zero consequence or benefit for PvP outcomes..nope.

 

So we pretty much agree on that score.

[TUXs]

That's not all they reflect. They reflect a lack of interest, over all, in PvP. If, as the op would have us believe, it was such a vibrant part of the game, it would be active on servers that are dedicated to it. It's not. According to the OP's other thread, queue times are unbearably long, 10 minutes..., and it's because PvP is dead, but then we have this thread where it's presumed he was trying to prove it's not. So, which tale are we to believe? The "tale of the tape", as it were of dead, or nearly so PvP servers and extremely long, again, 10 minutes, queue times, or the "I'm not going to show you what I got, but the only guy that did showed that PvP isn't doing any where near as well as I'd intended to show with this thread" thread?

They reflect BOTH.

 

What I was trying to demonstrate with my links to earlier Dev statements is that there WAS a very large interest in PvP...an interest that has all but vanished as of today...

 

The dead PvP servers don't reflect a lack of interest in PvP, they reflect a lack of development. They represent lost customers who WERE here...who DID exist. But Bioware didn't care about them. Bioware let PvP die. Bioware neglected it. Bioware stripped it. Those dead servers are a testament to Bioware's terrible management.

[robertthebard]

They reflect BOTH.

 

What I was trying to demonstrate with my links to earlier Dev statements is that there WAS a very large interest in PvP...an interest that has all but vanished as of today...

 

The dead PvP servers don't reflect a lack of interest in PvP, they reflect a lack of development. They represent lost customers who WERE here...who DID exist. But Bioware didn't care about them. Bioware let PvP die. Bioware neglected it. Bioware stripped it. Those dead servers are a testament to Bioware's terrible management.

 

All of which goes to demonstrate that this thread has no real purpose. If we go with what you're saying here, then the expected result of taking the OP's "poll" would be that the only thing we're verifying is that there is very little interest in PvP. I've stated reason why I'm not interested, and why people that I know came, looked, and left, and even made a suggestion in the other thread about how this could have been remedied, but that's another topic, or actually, probably listed in the correct topic there. This thread was a deflection, maybe? Maybe the OP figured we'd blow off what he's postulating, since he didn't even try to explain what it was he was hoping we'd find?

 

If it was a commentary about PvP being dead, didn't we already reach that consensus in the other thread, making this one a waste of bandwidth that could have been covered by a single post in his other thread? If it was trying to demonstrate how vital PvP is in today's game, despite his previous thread, didn't he then fail miserably, since what evidence we do have in this thread indicates that that would be false, assuming that's what he's after?