Game has died, Nowhere to go

[JennyFlynn]

I didn't mean to lump you in with a group you don't associate with

 

There's nothing wrong with how you play nor how you feel, I'm talking more about groups that actually rely on updates.

 

So...can I ask, what do you do in game exactly? PvE is rather broad...so...?

 

This game is like high school for me. In high school I hung with every stereotypical crowd and 'fit in' with all of them, I didn't place myself in any specific box or clique and got by on my own as well as with others. Playing SWTOR is very much like that. I do my own thing, carve out my own path and do a bit of almost everything. Some days I'll just run a bunch of H2s, other days I'll level an alt and build my own story around my PC. Other times I'll work on crafting, mess around on the GTN, play with outfits and looks, decorate my SH. On the rare occasion I'll jump into TFPs or do some PVP battles before starting another alt on KotFE. Only thing I haven't touched is that space battle stuff (doesn't appeal to me) and OPs (ditto.) and overall I'm happy. I enjoy the game, I enjoy the things I do and can do and I rarely waste my time thinking "I wish they'd have this/that instead". I dunno, guess I'm kinda happy go lucky about the whole thing. I'll move on once the fun stops but so far it hasn't and I kinda make my own enjoyment out of what BW offers. I'm a PVE'er with a dash of PVP when I feel like it. I'm a solo player with a hint of group play if I feel like it. I'm a story player who expands on the story in her own mind and looks for a different approach each time. I'm a social gamer who gets by just fine alone as well and I hate being placed into set categories or boxes.

[TUXs]

Instead of listing all the sides I've been on, I'll just say; no coding. Pretty much everything else from ownership on down to (mercy!) CS/TS. It has provided me with, obviously, more patience than many. It has also provided me with a deep cynicism. Oh, and fickle. If I am not happy with a game, I just mosey along to something I am. So simple.

 

Vote with one's wallet. *THAT* is what gets the bean-counters' attention. Pitching tantrums is easily ignored as just that, tantrums even if there's a kernel of truth in there.

I'm shocked...If you have owned your own company at any time, you should know just how valuable feedback can be. Would you rather they just leave and you never know why?

 

Yeah...EVERY customer realizes they can vote with their wallet, but feedback CAN and absolutely DOES shape many decisions with a product like this...why not have your voice heard?

[Jadescythe]

Fine...name me one group of player types that is happy right now. A group where there have been almost no complaints, mostly just praise.

 

If you aren't complaining, then devs let things get stale (sometimes it happens regardless ). I can't classify myself in terms of playing. I've done progression raiding, I've done reg and ranked PvP, I level alts all the time. Sometimes I'm just leveling while I watch Twitch or listen to music, other times I'm leveling to focus on the story again. I do heroics to rank up stupid companions and get money. I try to play the majority of what the game offers (except GSF, the XvT fan in me want to punch a BW dev for that mess).

 

I'm happy now, even if I make suggestions to improve the game. I think they just did so well with the original 1-50 game and the streamlined leveling now, that I'll never really be unhappy. When I get bored, I just step away for awhile or play other games.

[DieAlteHexe]

I'm shocked...If you have owned your own company at any time, you should know just how valuable feedback can be. Would you rather they just leave and you never know why?

 

Yeah...EVERY customer realizes they can vote with their wallet, but feedback CAN and absolutely DOES shape many decisions with a product like this...why not have your voice heard?

 

No, I would (and did) use "exit polls" and surveys. They are far more informative than a bunch of upset, braying, tantrum-tossing, petulant forum posters. You have seen how they feed off one and other and stir each other up to greater ire.

 

Give the customer options to communicate; email, surveys, exit polls, absolutely. But forums? Nope.

[TUXs]

Give the customer options to communicate; email, surveys, exit polls, absolutely. But forums? Nope.

Well I agree, I'd NEVER have a forums...geezus...but it's become the 'norm' in this genre, so it's expected. They just need to weed out the real issues from fluff...it's easy to do.

Edited May 11, 2016 by TUXs

[DieAlteHexe]

Well I agree, I'd NEVER have a forums...geezus...but it's become the 'norm' in this genre, so it's expected.

 

It is indeed and if a company can find the right staff to work them, they can sort through all the chaff to find kernels that are useful but it's horribly time consuming and takes people who are willing to wade through all the nonsense to get to valid points.

[Tsillah]

Fine...name me one group of player types that is happy right now. A group where there have been almost no complaints, mostly just praise.

 

It sure as hell isn't the PvEers/Raiders.

It sure as hell isn't the PvPers.

It sure as hell isn't GSFers.

It sure as hell isn't story folk. They don't want ONE story from 8...we don't even have Imp/Pub differences, or light/dark, or male/female, or anything of substance...we just play through to the next cut-scene. All of our companions have lost their uniqueness (which I like, just stating a fact).

 

So...what group is really happy right now in your opinion?

 

I suspect it has something to do with that vast majority of players that never posts here. Personally, I have complaints but I am more happy than that I have complaints. If I had more complaints than things to be happy about I'd be a real idiot to have a sub and play this game.

[DieAlteHexe]

I suspect it has something to do with that vast majority of players that never posts here. Personally, I have complaints but I am more happy than that I have complaints. If I had more complaints than things to be happy about I'd be a real idiot to have a sub and play this game.

 

That's how I feel about it. It's so simple to me anyway. Am I having fun? Does the good outweigh the bad? I continue. If I get bored, I'm out. If the game heads off in a direction that's no longer fun for me, out. If I get merged into a seething mega-server, I'm out.

 

But bugs and things that whilst irritating aren't game-stopping, those I can tolerate to a certain degree.

 

I'm pragmatic. Having fun, pay and play. Not having fun, gone (and I love exit polls).

[HuaRya]

And as for the 1-50 content some folks have been in the same guild since that time and although they've taken on a new members with the level cap people simply aren't logging on that much for whatever reason. So you have these guilds were people have 575 members and only 4 are logged in 12 midnight eastern standard time. A 5th will log in and say 'wow it's dead' and log off. 6 months ago this wasn't the case. At this point the game is looking more like an RPG instead of it's intended MMO. The fully unlocked guild ship full of HM decos sits in abandonment.

 

What would turn it all around is recognizing the servers that are depleted and roll them into the larger one in their region. Then offering one (yes just 1) new operation (new gear, mounts, decos) to get the raider demographic subbing again.

[TUXs]

I suspect it has something to do with that vast majority of players that never posts here. Personally, I have complaints but I am more happy than that I have complaints. If I had more complaints than things to be happy about I'd be a real idiot to have a sub and play this game.

Or...does it have more to do with the players who can no longer post because they quit?

 

Obviously most us are content enough to keep paying/playing, so our sampling on the forums will be extremely biased...but there are 100x's our number of players who no longer play the game who weren't content.

[Thoronmir]

I suspect it has something to do with that vast majority of players that never posts here. Personally, I have complaints but I am more happy than that I have complaints. If I had more complaints than things to be happy about I'd be a real idiot to have a sub and play this game.

Yeah. I'm happy right now. I'm not divinely blissful beyond all sense of reason (I couldn't be unless SWTOR tailored the game exclusively and precisely to me). But, sure, I'm happy. There is not a single complaint registered on these Forums that poses any impediment to my enjoying SWTOR. Except for bugs. I hate bugs.

 

But I accept that MMOs are like cheap motel beds: They all have bugs. And bugs get fixed, eventually. Few of the bugs in SWTOR affect me. I've never experienced most of the issues raised. So, even bugs do not dampen my happiness. When the day comes that bugs in SWTOR push me from gruntled to disgruntled, I'll let EA/BW know. Not by posting here. By cancelling my subscription.

[xordevoreaux]

our sampling on the forums will be extremely biased.

 

True. The 15 (or so) people who log into the forums regularly, including myself, do not even begin to represent the entire player base, and every anecdote the 15 of us post on the forums doesn't even show as much as the three blind men with this elephant called SWTOR -- not it's tail, not it's tusk, not it's trunk. Maybe a whisker or eyelash.

 

Biased, unsupported, unverifiable, and inaccurate, is as good of a post as any of the 15 of us will ever be able to post.

Argue that point if one wants, but one will be arguing with the wall, I won't react to it.

Edited May 11, 2016 by xordevoreaux

[Codedrago]

True. The 15 (or so) people who log into the forums regularly, including myself, do not even begin to represent the entire player base, and every anecdote the 15 of us post on the forums doesn't even show as much as the three blind men with this elephant called SWTOR -- not it's tail, not it's tusk, not it's trunk. Maybe a whisker or eyelash.

 

Biased, unsupported, unverifiable, and inaccurate, is as good of a post as any of the 15 of us will ever be able to post.

Argue that point if one wants, but one will be arguing with the wall, I won't react to it.

 

We are leigon, for we are many!

[CaitiVoltaire]

Remember zone lines in UO? With all the mobs stacking up on 'em?

 

Sorry, I digress.

 

I tend toward nitpickery (QA). It's the small, seemingly "easy" things that get to me sometimes but then I remember coders showing me just how one of those small, "easy" things might not be so "easy".

 

Well, lets just say I happen to know it's not that hard to fix the seams in this engine

 

And yes, I remember. Though people used to make a point of clearing out stacks of mobs like that on Siege Perilous when I played. To not do so was to get ganked that one time you had to travel alone.

 

[edit]: The hard thing can be catching them sometimes really, but I have an eye for such things.

Edited May 11, 2016 by CaitiVoltaire

[Andryah]

I suspect it has something to do with that vast majority of players that never posts here. Personally, I have complaints but I am more happy than that I have complaints. If I had more complaints than things to be happy about I'd be a real idiot to have a sub and play this game.

 

The core issue with what you quoted from TUXS, IMO, is ---> he is deliberately fractioning the content and pretending that players must pick one an go with it. Misleading, and inaccurate approach IMO. But it does benefit his strawman.. because if you focused on any single one exclusively... you will get bored, frustrated, and upset. So we need to decouple his framing of statement from his agenda and reset it to look at the game played holistically, IMO.

 

In reality, one thing this MMO does well is provide a range of content, much of it new player and casual friendly in nature, that is intended to fully played by most players. But the avid PvPer or the avid Raider, or the avid story fiend, or <insert any fractional interest you choose> of any MMO will get tired and burned out quickly if that is all they focus on.. one facet of play.

 

Setting aside the forums, which are more a pool of confirmation bias in some threads, I do find a lot of players in game, both in my playing circle, as well as random players I meet from time to time, that enjoy a wide range of play in this game, and these players tend to be fine with the game as is, in all it's diversity, unless they are playing 40+ hours per week. I also see a lot of chat in game that echoes this same enjoyment and acceptance of the diversity of play this MMO offers. Of course when gleening from chat.. you have to first get past the infantile trolling chats, and the LFG-NAO! impatient nonsense to get to the more rational players comments, questions, etc.

 

Diversified game play is key to longevity of enjoyment for the average player. Players that focus heavily on only one or two facets... are dooming themselves to disappointment and will leave. These heavily focused players actually need to diversify their time across multiple MMOs for their niche content needs as no MMO puts any content out fast enough.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Andryah

[CaitiVoltaire]

True. The 15 (or so) people who log into the forums regularly, including myself, do not even begin to represent the entire player base, and every anecdote the 15 of us post on the forums doesn't even show as much as the three blind men with this elephant called SWTOR -- not it's tail, not it's tusk, not it's trunk. Maybe a whisker or eyelash.

 

Biased, unsupported, unverifiable, and inaccurate, is as good of a post as any of the 15 of us will ever be able to post.

Argue that point if one wants, but one will be arguing with the wall, I won't react to it.

 

Tremendously cowardly to post an opinion you are unwilling to defend, so I will just assume you've abdicated the point already.

 

More importantly that you or anyone else in the game enjoys the content does not mean it can't be improved. This is a false dichotomy. Every single game on this earth can be improved. The good ones do so. The bad ones languish in mediocrity. Ultimately where any given game ends up, is a choice of the developers.

Edited May 11, 2016 by CaitiVoltaire

[DieAlteHexe]

Well, lets just say I happen to know it's not that hard to fix the seams in this engine

 

And yes, I remember. Though people used to make a point of clearing out stacks of mobs like that on Siege Perilous when I played. To not do so was to get ganked that one time you had to travel alone.

 

[edit]: The hard thing can be catching them sometimes really, but I have an eye for such things.

 

Long time ago now. Was just talking about it with my other half. Really miss some of the things about it.

[Andryah]

Tremendously cowardly to post an opinion you are unwilling to defend, so I will just assume you've abdicated the point already.

 

More importantly that you or anyone else in the game enjoys the content does not mean it can't be improved. This is a false dichotomy. Every single game on this earth can be improved. The good ones do so. The bad ones languish in mediocrity. Ultimately where any given game ends up, is a choice of the developers.

 

Forum PvP is not auto-flagged, it is by consent.

[CaitiVoltaire]

Long time ago now. Was just talking about it with my other half. Really miss some of the things about it.

 

Yeah. I miss so many of the regulars on Perilous but its been so long now I doubt even if I did log on, I'd find them again. I used to be Viantha on there.

 

I think more than anything in TOR's case it's kind of starting to see the beginnings of what UO *really* struggled with for a while, and that's identity. When the core game is settled (whether it should be or not being a side point here, since the game has found it's equilibrium), what do you do to keep engaging people? MMOs by design are not really something where the quality brings repetition, so you have to find other means. Usually, frankly, that means grind.

 

I actually recognize they've been trying to raise the bar of the content and just assets in general in KOTFE. Say what you will about the story design, the art design in general really raises the bar (though this also does raise the problem of making the core content that DIDNT get a facelift stick out like a sore thumb). I would really go for them going over the original campaigns' assets in the same way, the game would be a lot better for it.

 

It's also worth mentioning that "there is still a ways to go" is not saying I or others don't recognize Bioware is making efforts.

[Max_Killjoy]

In reality, one thing this MMO does well is provide a range of content, much of it new player and casual friendly in nature, that is intended to fully played by most players. But the avid PvPer or the avid Raider, or the avid story fiend, or <insert any fractional interest you choose> of any MMO will get tired and burned out quickly if that is all they focus on.. one facet of play.

 

Setting aside the forums, which are more a pool of confirmation bias in some threads, I do find a lot of players in game, both in my playing circle, as well as random players I meet from time to time, that enjoy a wide range of play in this game, and these players tend to be fine with the game as is, in all it's diversity, unless they are playing 40+ hours per week. I also see a lot of chat in game that echoes this same enjoyment and acceptance of the diversity of play this MMO offers. Of course when gleening from chat.. you have to first get past the infantile trolling chats, and the LFG-NAO! impatient nonsense to get to the more rational players comments, questions, etc.

 

Diversified game play is key to longevity of enjoyment for the average player. Players that focus heavily on only one or two facets... are dooming themselves to disappointment and will leave. These heavily focused players actually need to diversify their time across multiple MMOs for their niche content needs as no MMO puts any content out fast enough.

 

I've been advocating a diversified development approach.

 

An MMO survives on its diversity, not on catering to obsessives and chicken-littles.

[CaitiVoltaire]

I've been advocating a diversified development approach.

 

An MMO survives on its diversity, not on catering to obsessives and chicken-littles.

 

Which is why we have 50000 CM lockbox costumes, it's totally not catering to obsessives at all, no.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Fine...name me one group of player types that is happy right now. A group where there have been almost no complaints, mostly just praise.

 

It sure as hell isn't the PvEers/Raiders.

It sure as hell isn't the PvPers.

It sure as hell isn't GSFers.

It sure as hell isn't story folk. They don't want ONE story from 8...we don't even have Imp/Pub differences, or light/dark, or male/female, or anything of substance...we just play through to the next cut-scene. All of our companions have lost their uniqueness (which I like, just stating a fact).

 

So...what group is really happy right now in your opinion?

 

Group now? Strawman much... you said - and I quote - "Bottom line, Bioware's not pleasing anyone". You even emphasised the word "anyone" in italics and now you want to be all like "ermmm I meant entire groups of players".

 

You are now going to lump people into groups and say they aren't happy?

 

Well I'm happy enough to be playing this game, I'm pleased enough to be playing this game. Could it be better? Yes of course it could, almost everything I enjoy could be better.

 

If I wasn't happy/please to be playing this game I wouldn't bother paying for it.

 

This means that either a) you too are happy and pleased enough to play it and your argument is flawed as usual or b) you're not happy/pleased making you some sort of masochist who enjoys punishing himself by doing activities he finds neither happiness or pleasure in. Which is it?

[demotivator]

Harbinger is dead already. When I transferred off POT5 a few months ago I was in awe, fleet chat was litterelly filled with LFxM for [insert op], you couldn't follow any convo as it was going so fast. You would queue as a healer for a flashpoint: insta pop.

 

Today it takes forever to get a flashpoint going... and let's not talk about ops, nothing at all anymore.

 

This is POT5 all over again. Well it was fun while it lasted.

Edited May 12, 2016 by demotivator

[Max_Killjoy]

I can't speak for Harby, but right now, on TEH, Imperial Fleet as 2 instances, 171 and 27.

 

No, fleet chat isn't buzzing with LFG/LFM messages, but... are we talking about population, or grouping speed?

[IanArgent]

I can't speak for Harby, but right now, on TEH, Imperial Fleet as 2 instances, 171 and 27.

 

No, fleet chat isn't buzzing with LFG/LFM messages, but... are we talking about population, or grouping speed?

 

Whichever one has more gloom and doom