Game has died, Nowhere to go

[Thoronmir]

Telling someone "You're being a jerk" when they are, in fact, being a jerk, is not the same as being a jerk.

 

There's a space between jumping in feet first and gleefully exchanging random insults on one hand -- versus being so concerned with maintaining absolute decorum that you let someone else throw their ***** around the room without ever commenting on it, on the other hand.

Yet, regardless how well-intentioned, in the context of internet forums (or at least gaming forums), it always descends into everyone throwing poo around the room.

 

I am reminded of the line from the movie Hoosiers. When Gene Hackman kicks the interim coach out of practice near the start of the movie, the interim coach expresses the same sentiment you have: (I paraphrase) "There's two type of fellas. The guy who runs around outside howling at the moon, and the guy who does the same thing in my living room. The first doesn't matter, but the second, you kinda feel compelled to do something about." These forums are "outside" ... they are not anyone's "living room."

[robertthebard]

I now you are, but what am I!?

 

In all seriousness, being the 'bigger person' never has seemed to work. Responding in kind however always proved effective.

 

...or at the very least, amusing.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I would like to suggest they should add something like Star Trek Online has done with it's Foundry tools.

 

Star Trek Online has the ability for players to create content. It's a neat feature and adds new content to the game that can be really fun to play.

 

Not possible with the Hero engine I believe...

[Thoronmir]

...or at the very least, amusing.

I would say "entertaining" at best. I find myself rarely amused.

 

About twenty years ago, I was involved in a relatively large ($50 million) federal lawsuit. The depositions alone took me all over the United States for weeks at a time each month ... for three years. My counterpart (the lawyer for the other side ... let's call him Phil) was unanimously considered by everyone involved to be a giant penile member. Phil broke rules, lied, and generally engaged in the pernicious behavior every layman believes every lawyer does, yet so very few of us actually do. Phil would send me long, multi-page letters asserting false facts, misstatements of law, and personal attacks on my character. Being a young lawyer, I felt compelled to respond to and rebut each and every point in Phil's letters. So I did. Many, many times during that case.

 

We wrapped up a week of depositions in Ohio on a Friday, and I flew home to Tennessee that night. I went straight to my office to find a "Phil Letter" waiting for me on my desk. I read the letter, feeling my blood pressure rise with each paragraph. I started drafting my response ... line by line. It did not matter that it was 11:30 p.m. on a Friday after I'd been taking depositions all week and had just flown home. Around 12:30 a.m., I stopped. I wasn't even halfway done. Then came my epiphany. I deleted everything I had written from the word processing program and started a new letter:

 

Dear Phil,

 

Regarding your letter of <insert long-forgotten actual date>, 1996, I have read all of the assertions set forth in said correspondence and I have thoroughly considered each of your statements. I earnestly disagree with everything you said.

 

Very truly yours,

 

<Thor's real name>

Edited March 30, 2016 by Thoronmir

[Codedrago]

Not possible with the Hero engine I believe...

 

We can dream, man. WE CAN DREAM!

[TUXs]

Dear Phil,

 

Regarding your letter of <insert long-forgotten actual date>, 1996, I have read all of the assertions set forth in said correspondence and I have thoroughly considered each of your statements. I earnestly disagree with everything you said.

 

Very truly yours,

 

<Thor's real name>

Don't leave us hanging...what did Phil say?

 

"umadbro?"

"lol l2lawyer"

"Do you even lawyer bro?"

"What proof do you have that I'm wrong?"

"Well that's just like ur opinion"

 

Anything like that?

[Thoronmir]

Don't leave us hanging...what did Phil say?

 

"umadbro?"

"lol l2lawyer"

"Do you even lawyer bro?"

"What proof do you have that I'm wrong?"

"Well that's just like ur opinion"

 

Anything like that?

You left off "pics or it didn't happen", but you're missing the point.

 

"Dueling Correspondence" is an irrelevant forum. I'm under no compulsion to prove Phil wrong and doing so in a letter accomplishes nothing. Our letters are not (absent a truly bizarre set of circumstances) "evidence" in the case. They prove nothing (except that everyone's opinion of Phil was correct).

 

I still write truly responsive letters to adversaries who make cogent, viable arguments. It often helps for each side to articulate the facts and issues from their perspective to help identify what we're really arguing about. The "Phil" example addresses those situations when rational exchange becomes either impossible or meaningless. Nothing Phil said would persuade me. Nothing I said would persuade Phil. We call that an impasse, and that's the time to stop arguing simply for the sake of argument. Still, I have rarely felt compelled to invoke the "Phil Response" in the twenty years since.

 

I have been dancing around the conclusion to be drawn from my anecdote and comments: The SWTOR Forum is irrelevant. Self-indulgent op-ed pieces are as meaningless as Phil's letters ... or self-indulgent anecdotes.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Thoronmir

[DenariusJay]

Are we there yet?

[peter_plankskull]

Are we there yet?

 

15 pages to go still.

[MadCuzBad]

I demand free transfers off PoT5, or a server merge. ASAP.

 

Transfers are only 90CC. If you are on POT5 I suggest you spend the 90.

[Andryah]

Transfers are only 90CC. If you are on POT5 I suggest you spend the 90.

 

Now you are just repeating yourself... to the same exact person and post.

 

03.26.2016 , 07:43 PM - in this thread - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8873790#post8873790

Quote: Originally Posted by MeinChurro

 

I demand free transfers off PoT5, or a server merge. ASAP.

 

Its only 90CC each toon. Get off that rock and join us on Harbringer. Enjoy what few months we have left on this game.

[AlienEyeTX]

I just got here. Did I miss anything?

[IanArgent]

I just got here. Did I miss anything?

 

PvPers claiming the game is dying because WZ queues are slowing down. White knights tilting at the PvPers. A lot of popcorn being crunched. Unwarranted assumptions, poo-flinging, some good old-fashioned forum rioting. The usual.

[Divona]

Everything is great. Servers are heavy or full each day evenings and group queues pop fast. Guilds are growing and population overall is going up. New content is coming and paying customers cant wait to get hands on one pvp map and championship arena. Dont forget also new HK armor bits we get.

 

See all is fine

Edited March 31, 2016 by Divona

[DarkJediMage]

Everything is great. Servers are heavy or full each day evenings and group queues pop fast. Guilds are growing and population overall is going up. New content is coming and paying customers cant wait to get hands on one pvp map and championship arena. Dont forget also new HK armor bits we get.

 

See all is fine

 

yeah right! pfft. keeping wishing about heay/full population

Edited March 31, 2016 by DarkJediMage

[DarkJediMage]

imo - the population has changed to a new player monthly wave population with diminishing returns. new players play for a month or less and leave. their friends and guildies leave, too. we are wired to go where there are large groups for survivibility. When we can see an inactive friends or guild list for a period of time, we leave. Edited March 31, 2016 by DarkJediMage

[TUXs]

imo - the population has changed to a new player monthly wave population with diminishing returns. new players play for a month or less and leave. their friends and guildies leave, too. we are wired to go where there are large groups for survivibility.

Interesting take on things. Do you believe the monthly influx is mostly new players to the game, or vets returning in waves to play and then leave again?

[DarkJediMage]

Interesting take on things. Do you believe the monthly influx is mostly new players to the game, or vets returning in waves to play and then leave again?

imo - new players are gaining over the vets returning.

[TUXs]

imo - new players are gaining over the vets returning.

I hope you're correct.

[IanArgent]

The big question - is KotFE/4.0 the cause or the reaction to the change in play pattern? It's as likely to be a reaction, to adjust their business model to a newer breed of casual players.

 

The current discount of quick travel single-use passes suggests BW is trying to attract more non-subs (since they are almost pointless for a sub). IT's an interesting experiment on their part, if that's what it is.

 

That's the thing - BW appears to be in an experimentation phase for their business models, one where the balancing act for attracting new players vs keeping veterans seems to be leaning towards new players, even at the expense of veterans. The changes in companion influence is one of these - the massive increase in conversation influence gains benefits new characters (keeps them even with the new influence cap of 50), but because characters done with the story get limited conversation gains, they lose ground.

[Andryah]

imo - new players are gaining over the vets returning.

 

Of course none of us have real data to be sure, but from observation in the forum (a small but relevant measure of player cross-section) it appears to me to be a fairly balanced blend of both to be honest. And of course it depends on which part of the population you are sampling, since PvPers tend to be more restless and more prone to declare the game dead to them.

 

We do see a good number of "returning player" declarations in threads both here and on other sites on the internet. We do NOT see a lot of brand new players here with brand new forum-member number tags. Personally, I see pretty much the same thing in guilds where I know the players... veterans rotate in and out, with some new players here and there.

 

And... all of this is more normal every year for MMOs. The days of an MMO holding it's player base for extended periods of time has been declining for several years now. Players are much more likely to play for a few months, then hop to another and play for a few months, and rinse and repeat. Many players juggle multiple MMOs because they know no MMO can be everything to everyone and that there is nothing wrong with diversifying your play, particularly when the MMOs on the market seem to release expacs/major patch updates on differing time tables. It is, IMO, one of the reasons that the flexible access business models for MMOs is doing so well... as it lets a player be present and active in multiple MMOs at one time without more monetary investment, and they can simply sub into the one they are most active on at any given time.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Andryah

[DarkJediMage]

Of course none of us have real data to be sure, but from observation in the forum (a small but relevant measure of player cross-section) it appears to me to be a fairly balanced blend of both to be honest. And of course it depends on which part of the population you are sampling, since PvPers tend to be more restless and more prone to declare the game dead to them.

 

We do see a good number of "returning player" declarations in threads both here and on other sites on the internet. We do NOT see a lot of brand new players here with brand new forum-member number tags. Personally, I see pretty much the same thing in guilds where I know the players... veterans rotate in and out, with some new players here and there.

 

And... all of this is more normal every year for MMOs. The days of an MMO holding it's player base for extended periods of time has been declining for several years now. Players are much more likely to play for a few months, then hop to another and play for a few months, and rinse and repeat. Many players juggle multiple MMOs because they know no MMO can be everything to everyone and that there is nothing wrong with diversifying your play, particularly when the MMOs on the market seem to release expacs/major patch updates on differing time tables. It is, IMO, one of the reasons that the flexible access business models for MMOs is doing so well... as it lets a player be present and active in multiple MMOs at one time without more monetary investment, and they can simply sub into the one they are most active on at any given time.

 

the big question - can bioware survive these waves?

[Max_Killjoy]

No, sadly, we're all

.

 

[lightSaberAddiCt]

The big question - is KotFE/4.0 the cause or the reaction to the change in play pattern? It's as likely to be a reaction, to adjust their business model to a newer breed of casual players.

 

The current discount of quick travel single-use passes suggests BW is trying to attract more non-subs (since they are almost pointless for a sub). IT's an interesting experiment on their part, if that's what it is.

 

That's the thing - BW appears to be in an experimentation phase for their business models, one where the balancing act for attracting new players vs keeping veterans seems to be leaning towards new players, even at the expense of veterans. The changes in companion influence is one of these - the massive increase in conversation influence gains benefits new characters (keeps them even with the new influence cap of 50), but because characters done with the story get limited conversation gains, they lose ground.

 

Yeah that is the same thing I said right before KoTFE was launched. That BW, for better or worse, is playing a risky bet. To cater to the ultra casuals and hopefully, their numbers are large enough to compensate for the older, more loyal player base (ie: OPs players).

 

They are hoping that the casual crowd is more profitable. I guess this is where the cards are put on the table. All I hear is how casuals are the new playerbase, and screw the OPs people. Well now it is time for you to put your money where your mouth is.

 

Like I said then, it is an interesting gamble, and I am interested in how it turns out. The unfortunate thing, is it has become a us vs them situation. Casuals against OPs and players that want at least a little challenge. But that seems to be the trend in all things nowadays, from politics, to gaming I guess.

 

So if their strategy is correct, the casuals that just want monthly story will be enough numbers to compensate for losing the OPs players, and I guess included with that is a good number of PVP players. If not, they will pay for it and it will show in their monthly incomes (which as much as I know some people like to rant about, we really have no idea).

[Andryah]

the big question - can bioware survive these waves?

 

Time will tell, but it has been going on with SWTOR since the first expac released. Surge, ebb, surge, ebb. As long as they keep releasing new expacs on their regular cycle, I don't see them failing.

 

Just like in nature, the ebb and flow of the tide keeps the tide-pool fresh and alive, though the actual sea life specimens may change over time.

 

The big stink in the forums over 4.0 tends to center around it encouraging more solo play and therefore less group play. For an MMO player who is mostly interested in group based content, the current expac is less fulfilling for them. On the other hand, 4.0 is a solo players dream in many ways. An MMO these days needs a diverse player base and therefore offers a lot of different types of content. In the case of Bioware, and their game history, people tend to expect more solo/small-group story arc based play, whereas with other MMOs they have other stronger expectations (competitive PvP, OW PvP, Raids and more Raids, etc.). Of course some players just get bent over it and demand the studio give them exactly what they want and lots of it.. and to hell with the rest of the player base.

 

As an old school MMO player, I have come to accept the more nomadic nature of MMO populations in the modern era. We all have to adapt with the changing dynamics of the wider player base that plays MMOs. I have simply learned to diversify my play across multiple MMOs at the same time rather then beat up the devs of any particular MMO because they re not releasing my preferred content.

 

I think the shift in players being more nomadic has been hardest on guilds to be honest, because they are most dependent on stable populations of players.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Andryah