Creativity in warzones to counter predictable massacres

[aerockyul]

This is a little long--the gist is we don't all have to mindlessly zerg to mid and hope to outdps the other team in order to win the match. Please offer your ideas/suggestions/strategies to make wzs less predictable and give hope to people that they can still win a wz even when the other team is "stronger". Also a note on why this may help retain pvpers who will otherwise never queue again after getting farmed at mid one too many times.

 

99% of the openings in some WZs...

Novare Coast: one person grabs the closest bunker E/W, seven zerg to mid

Hypergates: one person grabs the left pylon, seven zerg to mid from the left gate

Civil War: one person runs to closest turret snow/grass, seven zerg to mid

 

These openings basically make pvp a dps race and "weaker" teams are just setting themselves up like bowling pins every time they follow the herd mentality to their inevitable many, many deaths.

I'm usually pretty shy in game and hold back on offering strategies before the fight begins in case I'm wrong or the more experienced players swat me down, but if these ideas aren't so crazy, maybe I'll start speaking up. With the way some pvpers react, I'm not sure if I'd prefer the 99% sullen silence from the whole team in almost every reg group I've ever been in or speak up and maybe convince people there's a better way.

 

Sometimes you can get lucky with some smart stealth players who can steal nodes away from the poor single guard left by his/her team to fend for themselves while the team ignores the inc calls. These seem to be the only players in wz that are doing anything that will help their team win in case dps from the other team is out of hand.

 

Otherwise, the 1% of the time I see "other strategies" used for the above mentioned warzones, the ending is either a win for the "weaker" team or at the very least not a complete massacre where the scoring actually goes down to the wire (no 600 to 0 endings, etc.).

 

Please poke holes in the ideas, and/or offer your own ideas that make wzs more than mindless dps races/deathmatches

 

Novare Coast:

Concede mid. Everyone run out from the north gate instead of the side one. 2-3 stay at the closest node while 5-6 go for the opposite end. The other team has MOST LIKELY sent ONE to take it. They're expecting zerg to mid. Even if they've sent two, 5-6 should be able to take them out quickly (and the other team is very rarely going to send a healer/tank combo to guard from the beginning, this shouldn't be too difficult unless you're all hitting like wet noodles). You might now have two nodes very quickly . You also have the two nodes that are closest to each other for faster inc responses.

Now let's say your 5-6 couldn't take out one guard on that second node, and that guard has called inc to him. While the 5-6 of you keep that node busy, you have 1-2 from the offnode who can now make an attempt on mid (stealth sap capping would be great here). If the other team is taking out the 5-6 at the offnode fairly quickly, they can now spawn to the two closest nodes for quick reinforcements.

Let's say the first strategy worked and you have both nodes. We've all seen this happen at times when you control two nodes and some on the team feel they just GOTTA have the third node To satisfy their bloodlust, deploy all but one guard each to fight at the two choke points from mid. They'll have plenty of people coming to them in this case, without straying so far away from the guards in case someone slips through.

 

Hypergates:

Instead of everyone running from the left gate, (except for the occasional stealther who wants to harass the other pylon), either split four to go for each pylon or even send 6 to the right while two go to the normal left pylon. The other team has likely only deployed ONE to capture the pylon. Should be easy enough to have two pylons pretty quickly. The other team will either overextend themselves to get "theirs" or will run to the opposite end to grab the other one, giving them less time to rack up kills and almost no time to run orbs. Your team that isn't being attacked by them can now run orbs, or run interference and rack up kills on the team desperately trying to get a pylon, any pylon.

As far as I know, kills count whether they're inside mid or on the opposite end of the map. The other team's kills don't do them much good when you have both pylons or you successfully interfere long enough so they can never cap it, and you are also mostly freed up to run orbs if they've all run to one pylon.

 

Civil War:

Pretty much the same idea as Novare Coast. Mid does not give bonus points. Almost no one uses the tunnel underneath mid, so it should be easy to respond to incs on both snow and grass if needed. The best thing to do is for 2-3 guards to grab the closest turret, while the 5-6 follow to that side, use the tunnel, and pop out all together on the opposite side to take out their one guard. Inevitably the team that zerged mid is now going to overextend themselves to the weaker side. Now that you have the node farthest from where they're going, you can deploy most of that group to mid to clean up the guard they left when they ran to the weak node. This will result in faster inc responses as well and you didn't have to overextend at mid for 5 minutes in the beginning while the other team grabbed both nodes. Now you can also control both choke points to keep them from taking back one of yours.

 

The very few times I've seen these strategies in action it has resulted in wins or unexpectedly close losses over premades and stronger overall dpsers. Every team seems so conditioned to zerg mid (and I've seen many celebrities of pvp follow or lead the same zerg), I'm surprised more people in four years haven't done something different more often. Otherwise if you're a nondps or a weak dps on the team, it seems there's going to never be a non-massacre outcome, and you get people quitting and crying on the forums, when the whole time you're just playing right into the strong dpsers (and forum trolls) hands. You may not win if they react to you fast enough, but the match will be closer than it would have been otherwise. Inadvertently you'll make the stronger team happy as well, the majority of good pvpers want close matches or to play against players with an idea of what they're doing, they're just as unhappy with massacres as the players on the receiving end.

 

A quick note related to arenas: Why does everyone run to the bridge or rafters in Makeb and Nar Shadaa? You're just allowing the other team to separate you from your teammates and make you easier to kill 1 by 1. Another predictable outcome.

 

Final note: I'd love to see more people playing pvp and enjoying it. A lot of people blame the devs for lack of focus on pvp, but why should they care when players are constantly turned off by it and not participating?

What turns people away from pvp more heavily than anything else:

The toxic players actively trying to make them quit (and then crying they have no one to play with). It's on all of us to shun, ignore, ostracize, call out before a match that you won't play with so-and-so and drop, report when necessary, etc. Bioware isn't going to do that for us (unless there are enough reports on them, but I see the same toxic people playing for years, so they're apparently not doing anything about them anyway)

Endless massacres at the hands of stronger players and "premades". While I don't agree that premades are ruining PVP (I've seen enough bad premades to convince me it all evens out in the end as far as that goes), it is OBVIOUS to anyone that can read these forums, that the mere PERCEPTION of these overpowering premades is turning people away, no matter which side of the debate you fall on, and you are being obtuse if you think these massacres are not a huge hindrance to retaining new pvpers. I hope this post can show them there's another way than to throw themselves against mid over and over, feeding kills and ALLOWING the other team to farm them endlessly.

 

Apologies for the length

[garnatxu]

You are right, I have played all the strategies you say for the 2 years I have been playing this game and I can tell U they work. In fact, the best strategy is trying to be always 1 step further than the enemy, so U have the initiative and the enemy is always reacting to your acts, what means is arriving late to the hot nodes or strategical points.

 

The main problem is that these strategies need more teamworking (peeling, calling incs, managing tempos of attack-retrieve-counteratttack,...) and a lot of agressivity, so they need almost the full team to be skilled and experienced enough to have succes, and this is something U may not easily find in PVP...

 

Beware that 75% pvpers (3 out of 4) just wanna DPS and be top chart, beause they think simple: kill'em all. And mid turrets of NC and ACW and center of AH give them a lot of possibilities.

 

I also would like to know which is the average age of the pvp in this game. Many times the way people play reminds me when I was a kid and was playing football/soccer at the school: 20 kids of each team all crowded together pursuing the ball all the time, just trying to kick it and kick it and kick it again... A lot of fun, but pathetic... Like facerollers or keyboard smashers in this game try to kill the healer. LOL

 

-A-

[Yorioko]

I'd love something like that.

 

I am mostly pve player, mostly for resonsl like this, becuse I find in a wz this is hard....employing tactics, going OFF THE MAIN etc, in pve it is more time to do this........becuse well it is not depending that much on the other side.

 

I have tried this, but form my experience this is NeXT to impossible, most times doing somethingmlike this causes a loss.............and that rocks the Whole fundation of life in the playergroup that this will affect. PVPers.

 

But from a PVE viewpoint, from someone that likes pvp, but isn't very Activ at it, THIS is the fun way to go about it I think.

 

I really hope I'll see something like this some day, but since it will involve pvpers actually focusing less on winning, it will never ever happen

[jedcjedcjedc]

except they see no one south and immediately charge off to their off node to defend before you can get there... this happens many times in civil war when one team goes for the sides the other side leaves one and captures mid immediately and meets the other team at the off node, essentially just switching where the big battle occurs. this actually slightly favors the other team as their drop off point leads directly to that turret.

[Ruhun]

Hypergates still heavily depend on out dpsing their heals and tanks.

If you go 4/4 you better have two sorcs, one for each side.

 

You will quickly grab theirs/yours if they don't call or stay mid if it's empty.

They are free to grab all the orbs and go to the weaker pylon to cap it. GG.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Ruhun

[Floplag]

This is true in many ways, not just tactics, but as other i have done many of these things myself.

Im confident enough to take on most people 1V1... i dont always win but at least it makes them work for it rather than conceding anything.

Dont always do the same things in terms of strategy or anything else. Unpredictability is a huge plus especially in rotational skills. I use a lot of things that are not "optimal" at times to allow me to use them better later.

Bottom line dont be a lemming, take some chances, never know what might happen.

[knowmyname]

doesnt work all the time. when quality is online, this happens but is defended most often.

 

can watch examples on my stream, i do watch the off node and its guard. ill put that call out into chat quickly and call out on voice comms, if grouped.

 

players have also started to watch for me. though im an operative healer, i will solo fools at off nodes and steal it. or sap/cap them. but those that know me and dont see me, do know where im going to be and will head there, usually cutting me off or interrupting my cap.

 

usually what happens is an inexperienced unstealthed teammate sees me on their map and follows me, ruining any attempt before it starts.

 

its a good thought but after 5 years in the WZ's all this has been attempted but rarely works anymore when quality players are online. though it will work against scrubs all day long.

[Storm-Cutter]

All of those are valid strategies, OP and easy to co-ordinate if you're in a team of friends or have voice chat .....

 

BUT in regs and especially in PuGs, you can rely on at least 4 people not reading chat, and doing their own thing. - Then you're back to herding cats. - They're the ones fluffing their numbers, suicide-ing, or scoring few objective points.

 

TBH I try alternative strategies only when it's all but lost. Occasionally I get a VC buddy or someone on the same wavelength, or who reads chat messages and backs me up - and occasionally we challenge/steal/deny a node..... but more often than not, you still see 2/3/4 guards on the home base - which isn't under attack, ( and emoting each other) despite someone frantically typing:

 

JUST 1 GUARD / EVERYONE ELSE....HELP FFS!!!!

 

Even typing "EVERYONE RIGHT --->" at the beginning of AH/ACW or Voidstar usually does nothing. So I just roll my eyes and go with the flow TBH.

 

No wonder even slightly organized teams usually wipe the floor with 8 random strangers in a PuG.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Storm-Cutter

[AlrikFassbauer]

except they see no one south and immediately charge off to their off node to defend before you can get there...

 

You just need to be aware of that, and hide somewhere remote.

[Floplag]

One other basic strategy... someone has to guard. You cant all run like rats trying to get off a sinking ship to go pew pew the second you think a cap is being made. Cant tell you how many times recently ive seen people bail to early or leave a healer or other poor choice on guard to go farm damage.

 

We all know who the better choices are for guarding, and it isnt me on my Merc even though i end up doing it most of the time cause most cant be bothered

 

Just sayin, advanced tactics are nice, but a lot of people need a primer on the basics again.

[jambalayabungee]

thks for this thread ! In few warzones some ppl took the initiative to lay out different strategies, and it was actually more fun than usual and we won Yes we were a PUG, it was explained clearly, everyone followed, yes Puggers are not all stupid headless chickens

 

I wont sell that person strategies here, but it was implying ''fake'' moves ... In appearance you do what the other team expect you to do, they dont suspect anything else than a ''normal'' game, but you had a plan behind their backs :3 Like somebody said here , it was about planning 2 steps before how the ennemies would react

 

As for Puggers listening to strategies, personnally I tend to participate more when somebody Suggest a strategy as a teammate than when somebody Impose HIS way of doing thing no matter what, and calling ppl idiots, rage, or say passive-aggressive statements about how **** others are. I'm sorry but I dont have to be the pawn of a stranger that improvised himself Chief and **** on others that doesnt think like him. Hell, thats precisely when I just want to do what I want, ignore him and have fun.

 

I once had a pretty ridiculous warzone , for all the time 3 persons were just fighting to lead ''the pack'', contradicting themselves : ''go there!!'' , ''no,dont go there, go There !!'' '' you fools, you dont have to do that, do THAT!!'' .... no surprise, we lost lol

 

Remember you play with humans, not with pawns you can control. Otherwise, strategies are fun

[garnatxu]

 

As for Puggers listening to strategies, personnally I tend to participate more when somebody Suggest a strategy as a teammate than when somebody Impose HIS way of doing thing no matter what...

 

 

I always expect the ops leader to get leadership during the starting countdown, and if not I try to team up people with me chating stgh like : "someone with me to get snow?"

 

About raging and trollying, people forget that is just a game, but I confess that if I am guarding a node, call incs and nobody comes, if I get killed and lose the node i consequently get upset and rage quit WZ most of the times after a sarcastic "thks for the help" in chat...

 

-A-

[Storm-Cutter]

As for Puggers listening to strategies, personnally I tend to participate more when somebody Suggest a strategy as a teammate than when somebody Impose HIS way of doing thing no matter what, and calling ppl idiots, rage, or say passive-aggressive statements about how **** others are. I'm sorry but I dont have to be the pawn of a stranger that improvised himself Chief and **** on others that doesnt think like him. Hell, thats precisely when I just want to do what I want, ignore him and have fun.

 

I used to ask "Tactics?" at the start - when we're in the holding pen. The replies ranged from funny, to silly to rude to very toxic. - So I stopped asking unless I'm with people I know.

 

Shame, coz reading a strategy and trying it usually works. "cap grass and snow, & hold. 4 people on each." or "Stealth R and Zerg L" or "everyone left in a chain to pas the HB." or "E and W only - leave mid" is too much for some people.

[JouerTue]

those were just ranked tactics..always stalemate also at the time..

[AlrikFassbauer]

When I suppose something (an one-eyed one is king among the blind ones !), then I add "I think". Because I express

that my suggestion is what I think might work - I still might be wrong.

 

Additionally, my "I think" phrase is an attempt to be as polite as possible - I'm not the superhero, knowin g everything, and being able to beat everyone. Me, I'm merely a thinker.

 

Well, I'm sure that some people answer to this with an "if you are 'merely a thinker' , then you have no place in PvP."

Well, Egomaniacs don't have that, either, I answer to this.

[Yorioko]

When I suppose something (an one-eyed one is king among the blind ones !), then I add "I think". Because I express

that my suggestion is what I think might work - I still might be wrong.

 

Additionally, my "I think" phrase is an attempt to be as polite as possible - I'm not the superhero, knowin g everything, and being able to beat everyone. Me, I'm merely a thinker.

 

Well, I'm sure that some people answer to this with an "if you are 'merely a thinker' , then you have no place in PvP."

Well, Egomaniacs don't have that, either, I answer to this.

 

 

Problem is too many are too unwilling to take time and "slow" down, I once did Aldreaan Civil was slowly, yes we HURRIED getting the nodes, guaring and holding them....or trying to

But SLOW in that we took time, time to set out rooles, times to ALLOW for creativity, for trying out Possibilities, etc.

 

BUT for this to be even remotely possible then the WIN at ALL cost, and IF I LOOSE then it allways everyone else's fault, has to be killed in it's infancy.

If the attitudes in the WZs change, allowing for the less competative, more creative and "testing" thay may turn out even more effective, THEN AND ONLY THEN can any form of real tactics and strategy be implemented AND then I am sure there will be a cry out for a Mission that is pvp, a longer map much longer, designed for teams to pit not only skill agaist eachother but also tactics and strategy.

 

But again the only thing that is really needed is to turn down the competativeness a few notches, really

[lavatsunami]

Actually, the single best thing you can do in a non controlled (pug) environment, is your job. If you're dps, kill stuff. Awareness can definitely help for node switching, or capping, or seeing if they're leaving nodes unguarded etc. However, if you're facing a competent team, best thing you can do is eliminate theirs. Objectives in pvp are there to provide a focal point for killing other players. Killing other players come's first. I already wrote up a whole thread about this. Edited March 11, 2016 by lavatsunami

[Khryn]

doesnt work all the time. when quality is online, this happens but is defended most often.

 

can watch examples on my stream, i do watch the off node and its guard. ill put that call out into chat quickly and call out on voice comms, if grouped.

 

players have also started to watch for me. though im an operative healer, i will solo fools at off nodes and steal it. or sap/cap them. but those that know me and dont see me, do know where im going to be and will head there, usually cutting me off or interrupting my cap.

 

usually what happens is an inexperienced unstealthed teammate sees me on their map and follows me, ruining any attempt before it starts.

 

its a good thought but after 5 years in the WZ's all this has been attempted but rarely works anymore when quality players are online. though it will work against scrubs all day long.

 

 

Your team (last night? it all blends together) had a GREAT strategy at Novarre Coast. Ya'll were running us in circles, keeping us just off balance enough to keep us from trying to take a second node. It was like trying to herd cats when Aristacrats (sp) and I realized what ya'll were doing.

 

I took East from ya'll for a split minute, but no one came to help and I got overrun. Then you did exactly as you said and just harangued the hell out of west until GG. It felt like an appropriate time to try and relearn how to play my Vanguard. Almost got you a couple of times, but alas... The OP-Tank-Healer spec you run proved too much.

[Yorioko]

Actually, the single best thing you can do in a non controlled (pug) environment, is your job. If you're dps, kill stuff. Awareness can definitely help for node switching, or capping, or seeing if they're leaving nodes unguarded etc. However, if you're facing a competent team, best thing you can do is eliminate theirs. Objectives in pvp are there to provide a focal point for killing other players. Killing other players come's first. I already wrote up a whole thread about this.

 

Exactly, and imprtant thing to consider.

 

ANY team that at any time anhilates the other WILL win, regardless of "node/objectives"

 

My concern when it comes to creativity, is that that is often the same as doing NEW stuff and TRYING out stuff.

 

Try to TRY out something, or do NEW stuff in a WZ and then listen the choir of semi suidical " I lost my life is over and I blame Y O U ! " people go almost "ape".

THAT is the reality about creative WZs, hence the ONLY way is by either chasing ways the serous ones by making it so they don't WNT to come there, like they in many ways to others, but that si NOT a good solution.

 

So the which other solutions are there?

 

The only I can see is to tone the "need to win" in the regular Zones to allow for THAT.

 

I can see ways to implemet it without no changes to the game and with only minor ( if that even ) problems followin it.

 

Since there is copetitveness of various levels, from the ultra die hard to me..........I coun't really give a damn most times, I'm there to learn still and if loosing makes me learn then loosing to me is a win.

 

So becuse we find the entire specter here, how about this.

 

TRY for the sake of testing how it goes, server to sever and make it over a limited time

 

Make a OP here in forum, announce times and weekday where WZ is "set" to be unserious, where winning and loosing don't at all matter in any way shape or form....at all.

 

Then urge among our selves ( pve and pvp communites) to come there, and try to mix the pvp with the elements of RP that a real tactical co operative WZ match should really be.

 

Becuse of the fact not all have the same gear, OR even voice chats, then one of the rules for the day, if not the ONLY rule for the day, applying to pvp and pveers alike in the WZ ,ythat we are allowed to take time, to test, try and to "play"

To test creativity, to test strategic ideas, to test ideas for teams etc.

 

By freeing up one day, maybe 1 day a month, set date, like every 25th, then I think it can be done

 

But again the realy non important ( outside ranked) win at all cost attitude need only a little tonong down that one day a month.

 

THAT could maybe work, taking for granted that most of the parties concerned are at least somewhat adult and mature

[lavatsunami]

Exactly, and imprtant thing to consider.

 

ANY team that at any time anhilates the other WILL win, regardless of "node/objectives"

 

My concern when it comes to creativity, is that that is often the same as doing NEW stuff and TRYING out stuff.

 

Try to TRY out something, or do NEW stuff in a WZ and then listen the choir of semi suidical " I lost my life is over and I blame Y O U ! " people go almost "ape".

THAT is the reality about creative WZs, hence the ONLY way is by either chasing ways the serous ones by making it so they don't WNT to come there, like they in many ways to others, but that si NOT a good solution.

 

So the which other solutions are there?

 

The only I can see is to tone the "need to win" in the regular Zones to allow for THAT.

 

I can see ways to implemet it without no changes to the game and with only minor ( if that even ) problems followin it.

 

Since there is copetitveness of various levels, from the ultra die hard to me..........I coun't really give a damn most times, I'm there to learn still and if loosing makes me learn then loosing to me is a win.

 

So becuse we find the entire specter here, how about this.

 

TRY for the sake of testing how it goes, server to sever and make it over a limited time

 

Make a OP here in forum, announce times and weekday where WZ is "set" to be unserious, where winning and loosing don't at all matter in any way shape or form....at all.

 

Then urge among our selves ( pve and pvp communites) to come there, and try to mix the pvp with the elements of RP that a real tactical co operative WZ match should really be.

 

Becuse of the fact not all have the same gear, OR even voice chats, then one of the rules for the day, if not the ONLY rule for the day, applying to pvp and pveers alike in the WZ ,ythat we are allowed to take time, to test, try and to "play"

To test creativity, to test strategic ideas, to test ideas for teams etc.

 

By freeing up one day, maybe 1 day a month, set date, like every 25th, then I think it can be done

 

But again the realy non important ( outside ranked) win at all cost attitude need only a little tonong down that one day a month.

 

THAT could maybe work, taking for granted that most of the parties concerned are at least somewhat adult and mature

 

You can try out whatever new stuff you want, but unfortunately, in a pug environment, you can't control anyone. People's patterns are predictable and chaotic at the same time. The only real way to try and achieve some new tactic on a wz is to group with people.

[knowmyname]

Your team (last night? it all blends together) had a GREAT strategy at Novarre Coast. Ya'll were running us in circles, keeping us just off balance enough to keep us from trying to take a second node. It was like trying to herd cats when Aristacrats (sp) and I realized what ya'll were doing.

 

I took East from ya'll for a split minute, but no one came to help and I got overrun. Then you did exactly as you said and just harangued the hell out of west until GG. It felt like an appropriate time to try and relearn how to play my Vanguard. Almost got you a couple of times, but alas... The OP-Tank-Healer spec you run proved too much.

 

Was the the one I got stuck on?

[jambalayabungee]

I always expect the ops leader to get leadership during the starting countdown, and if not I try to team up people with me chating stgh like : "someone with me to get snow?"

 

About raging and trollying, people forget that is just a game, but I confess that if I am guarding a node, call incs and nobody comes, if I get killed and lose the node i consequently get upset and rage quit WZ most of the times after a sarcastic "thks for the help" in chat...

 

-A-

 

Ppl really expect the designated op leader to take leadership or it doesnt matter ? I was wondering about that. Most of the time I just see whoever wants to expose a strategy talk up, op leader or not ...

 

I often just whisper to somebody to team up with me, either for objectives or else (''come with me to that node'' , or ''Ill heal your butt if you stick with me ''). Usually its working Or I just state facts : ''there is only 2 persons at that node, if someone help me, we could cap'' etc

I can understand, if you call inc and nobody comes its infuriating lol. This is basic lol

 

I dont have anything against somebody that step up to propose a strategy, what I'm saying is I dont like those self-proclamed leaders to be asses to everybody and yell because it didnt turn out the way they wanted. Like the OP said, there is not only one winning strategy, everything should be about awareness and thinking ahead.

 

Yeah warzone are about killing people, we get that ... but strategy can help a ''weaker'' team turn the tide in their favor

[Yorioko]

You can try out whatever new stuff you want, but unfortunately, in a pug environment, you can't control anyone. People's patterns are predictable and chaotic at the same time. The only real way to try and achieve some new tactic on a wz is to group with people.

 

Yeah I see this.

 

And the ones that that suffer the most from what we could call idiot behaviour in the wz, be that what ever individually see in the term, I am sure most of see it 90% alike, are the most serious PVPers.

 

It is that group, that rightfully do suffer from PUG in general, with the effect being that at times totally random people can drop in and things can go the drain in a heartbeat.

 

What I ment really by freeing up a day to SET the WZ to just super hardcore casual nonsense for a day was really that the group suffering the most in their play form the wz idiots, are and rightfully so the most serious PVPers.

 

So my thought was that this group were "in charge" in the way that it was on their terms a day was "freed up" so that even they when or IF pvping on that day, could really actully get some time out..........what ever idiocy is goin on is ment to go on ....TODAY, so I can now do something I have been tinking about doing ( map and pvp related, most likely)

AND I can spend the time finding some players of my own faction that could potetially be or may already be Top tier PVPers, and then form more relations , possibly for future grouping ( and turning Premade ) to counter the at times annoying "other" premades.

 

So in essence , much like annoucing a competiton or asking people to join in on an event as I have some servers have severl posts about, pvp and pve alike.

 

Make a sticky, have it labled as a day for the silly pvp required to explore the creative possibilies the zone offers.

and since most serious PVPers are active on the forum, they will have no problem seeing the posting, and knowing the day and time.

 

Think how fun it would be to start out.....on both sides.......Alderaan with a shouting match, yes times tick down, BUT is best of 3, and it can I think be a draw.

The from the shouting match comes all out mayhem.

 

Another PRO to a Post that "sets" the WZ totally open is that teams of friends can set up premade groups on each side, test out scenarios.

 

For instance, HOW long must the opposing team hold all 3 alderaan nodes in order for the other team to loos no matter what.

 

How long with controlling 2, what is the numbered advantge needed in points.

20 points more, 50?

How before you can not catch up even if you regain control of all 3 nodes AND the other team does nothing.

 

there is a lot that that can be reserached through something like allowing 1 such day.

 

Class ballance issues, things tht may in a fast pace fight appear uballanced CAN turned out when analyzed slowly and when pitted in certain scenarious is MUCH less unballanced etc.

 

So could a day a month where even the the ones that want to wing for winning alone, allow them selves not to and just use the day creatively, to reasearch, AND it will also I think better the athmosphere, be a more realxed enviromnet to advice new and less skilled players.

 

So I see with some minor self restraints on both sides that a day a month for something like that would turn into a win-win for us all

[DarthScruffy]

Exactly, and imprtant thing to consider.

 

ANY team that at any time anhilates the other WILL win, regardless of "node/objectives"

 

My concern when it comes to creativity, is that that is often the same as doing NEW stuff and TRYING out stuff.

 

Try to TRY out something, or do NEW stuff in a WZ and then listen the choir of semi suidical " I lost my life is over and I blame Y O U ! " people go almost "ape".

THAT is the reality about creative WZs, hence the ONLY way is by either chasing ways the serous ones by making it so they don't WNT to come there, like they in many ways to others, but that si NOT a good solution.

 

So the which other solutions are there?

 

The only I can see is to tone the "need to win" in the regular Zones to allow for THAT.

 

I can see ways to implemet it without no changes to the game and with only minor ( if that even ) problems followin it.

 

Since there is copetitveness of various levels, from the ultra die hard to me..........I coun't really give a damn most times, I'm there to learn still and if loosing makes me learn then loosing to me is a win.

 

So becuse we find the entire specter here, how about this.

 

TRY for the sake of testing how it goes, server to sever and make it over a limited time

 

Make a OP here in forum, announce times and weekday where WZ is "set" to be unserious, where winning and loosing don't at all matter in any way shape or form....at all.

 

Then urge among our selves ( pve and pvp communites) to come there, and try to mix the pvp with the elements of RP that a real tactical co operative WZ match should really be.

 

Becuse of the fact not all have the same gear, OR even voice chats, then one of the rules for the day, if not the ONLY rule for the day, applying to pvp and pveers alike in the WZ ,ythat we are allowed to take time, to test, try and to "play"

To test creativity, to test strategic ideas, to test ideas for teams etc.

 

By freeing up one day, maybe 1 day a month, set date, like every 25th, then I think it can be done

 

But again the realy non important ( outside ranked) win at all cost attitude need only a little tonong down that one day a month.

 

THAT could maybe work, taking for granted that most of the parties concerned are at least somewhat adult and mature

 

I've done outside the box stuff before. If my team is getting farmed for kills, I'm going to try to find ways to use the opponents' aggressiveness against them. If you attack a controlled turret and can burn one guy, you can usually draw 2-3 more over to the position. That at least thins out the enemies in the zerg zone. I've gotten some truly ugly wins this way (14-15 deaths) against premades famous for kill farming.

 

I usually play conventional if we are not getting dominated.

[jambalayabungee]

I've done outside the box stuff before. If my team is getting farmed for kills, I'm going to try to find ways to use the opponents' aggressiveness against them. If you attack a controlled turret and can burn one guy, you can usually draw 2-3 more over to the position. That at least thins out the enemies in the zerg zone. I've gotten some truly ugly wins this way (14-15 deaths) against premades famous for kill farming.

 

I usually play conventional if we are not getting dominated.

 

I love that

We once tried something in a desperate attempt to take a node ... I attacked some guards front like an idiot (And I wasnt even dps spec lol) , they were so excited about doing a free kill of stupid me, they didnt call, they werent checking the node anymore, while my buddy Stealther capped it haha. Most people will assume you are an idiot with no strategy if you dont prove them wrong, I guess it could be used against them lol