Premades... because it's an MMO

[Ruhun]

I agree with OP. What most people dont realize is many times premades will que without a healer and or tank. People play with friends, and most of the time the friends are like minded. If you are competitive then your friends will be competitive. If you are competent, then your friends will be competent. With player base down in this game, a majority of that player base lost were competent players. So what happens is you have player that cap a node and leave immediately or leave a healer there to guard or dont even know how to guard or call out. How many times have I seen someone call out after the node is capped, easily as many times as i have seen a post in these forums about premades. Get a clue, buy a clue, and when all else find someone and group with them so that you can borrow a clue. Premades dont ruin anything. Besides, you solo players got what you wanted anyways. The game is already built for solo play.

 

I don't care about people queueing up with friends, nothing in my posts says that.

I group up too, what I don't do is make sure that my group has a tank and a healer.

I also don't queue sync with another trinity premade.

[power-alex]

Here we go again...

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=874018

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=544543

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=867643

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=855852

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=787172

....

....

 

 

let's discuss it for 10 pages, then create a new thread. GG.

[Anzel]

Yeah, it's an MMO. I just want to play with my friends. Except I want my full gouped and fully gear finds to only queue against singles who don't know each other. Jeeez!

[Savej]

I've been playing around mids and lowbies a little lately on a couple servers. When premades come into those the few people trying those brackets (lots of newbs in them) just stop q'ing. Current mechanics heavily favor certain class combos and premades.

 

If you want to play with friends just play group ranked. Oh right... no one does that because then they lose their advantage.

[-Bob-]

Rehash

[Kinsal]

Its a rehash,

 

Make Premade only que-

 

We group with friends

 

Premade only que would never pop like group rank (as I know and many others know that if a premade had to go against another premade nobody would group que .)

 

"its a better time stomping random pugs anyways epeen damage and all"

 

 

Long ago when I used to run a 6 man in warhammer we would leave the que if we had to face a pug cause it was boring as hell and we rather set up a 6 v 6 out in CW or Lotd then face random pugs that we would trash. MMO players today /smh

 

 

I pug only this game don't group and wont even join a guild it not that serious of PVP. When it is then you well see a PRX tag above my head

Edited February 29, 2016 by Kinsal

[NikSunrider]

Dropping is not a solution.

 

You don't like a 6v8, you drop, people have a 5v8, there's a timer, your team inevitably loses in 30 seconds. Bang, nobody's happy.

 

When you leave your team, you are basically leaving other competent players out to dry.

 

Most pugs I am a part of have 2-3 competent players (sometimes more, sometimes less). If one of these competent guys quits, the other two are scratching their head, trying to figure out what to do, and then go to kill farm.

 

If the third guy stayed, they could very well be like a mini-premade and solve everyone's problems.

 

And if you leave warzones whenever you see a credible threat, how do you learn?

 

I started to play GSF the moment preferred got access. By that time all the subs had more-or-less powerful gunships, and my first GSF character has a K/D ratio of about 0.4 because I didn't know how to play. I could have saved myself a lot of trouble. Nope, I soldiered on. I got my gunships, bombers, scouts and strikes maxed despite losing 90% of my games, and then I began to get better.

 

So it is with warzones, I began to kite better when I had pressure on me. I began to stun better when people wree chasing me. I got to heal better when I had time to heal.

 

When I do 600k dmg / 200k healing as a Seer Sage, something's wrong. And I'm not learning how to heal. When my team's dropping dead left and right and I'm at 40% mana because I don't have time to waste GCDs on Vindicate, then I'm learning.

 

You're doing yourself a disservice if you aren't learning your stuff.

[teclado]

Premade only que would never pop like group rank (as I know and many others know that if a premade had to go against another premade nobody would group que .)

Bingo. I suspect the same thing - if there was an an unranked group-only queue, it would be mostly dead. Why is the ranked group queue mostly dead? Because once a few teams start to dominate, people will stop queuing because they don't like losing. Instead, people would simply queue sync solos, leave warzone if they didn't get on the same team, repeat. Mass leaving would become a major problem, and nothing else would really change. You can't force people to do things that they don't want to. Imagine the headlines: "MMO attempts to force players to play solo." Well, we basically already have that with KotFE...

[Grimbot]

Is there a real solution?

 

We've got PvP with literally NO matchmaking system. Sure, there are the level restrictions, but otherwise "matchmaking" only consists of putting people into a match until the match is full. No other considerations are given to the K/D ratio of the player, the gear of the player, the class of the player, or anything else. The only thing that might "fix" matchmaking is the introduction of actual matchmaking.

 

Premades, for me, suck. Because I play with a buddy once a week and we don't have a guild, PvP is a total crap shoot. We'll either get some good matches, or we'll be up against a tight, unkillable team. There's not much in between. If we're going against premades, I'll get on my healer and he'll get on his tank and we'll see if it makes a difference. But when you start a Hypergate match, the enemy premade rushes your pylon to block (but not capture) and nobody from your side comes to correct the problem (or can't because of massive cross-healing), the game is basically over in the first minute. Then you either quit or you stick it out for the next eight minutes of rinse and repeat.

 

I generally don't disconnect, because I feel like it's unsportsmanlike. That makes me a sucker, probably, because the enemy premade is also being unsportsmanlike by not letting anyone out of the starting area on my side. I guess I don't blame the premade for being drnk on power. And I don't blame people on my own team for dropping, because there's nothing fun about having your face pushed in the dirt for a quarter of an hour straight. Clearly these two types of teams shouldn't be competing with each other at all.

 

But that's the way it is. There is no fix, and there will probably never be a fix. So we all play until it becomes untenable, and then maybe we finally buy Xcom2 or something.

[Magira]

Premade has nothing to do with MMO. MMO players are ready to form a team with all the others. Premade Players not. Premades usually consist of constantly the same people. They could also play in the kitchen Skat.

[jedcjedcjedc]

Bingo. I suspect the same thing - if there was an an unranked group-only queue, it would be mostly dead. Why is the ranked group queue mostly dead? Because once a few teams start to dominate, people will stop queuing because they don't like losing. Instead, people would simply queue sync solos, leave warzone if they didn't get on the same team, repeat. Mass leaving would become a major problem, and nothing else would really change. You can't force people to do things that they don't want to. Imagine the headlines: "MMO attempts to force players to play solo." Well, we basically already have that with KotFE...

 

And they say the ones in the premade have egos

Edited February 29, 2016 by jedcjedcjedc

[RRACZ]

I agree.

[-Bob-]

instead of getting worked up about premades maybe you should look at those pve driven mediocrity chasers you call teammates. Those who can't are always crying for special rules and lower standards so they can *fit in*. Society is full of entitled whiners and it carries over to online gaming.

 

I didn't become competent at PVP because i cried that the rules should be changed in my favor, i adjusted to the situation i had to play with, as did most good PVPers. If my WZ is going badly, i tend to look at my team and their placement on the map in relation to the opposing team and 9/10 my team has no idea what they're doing.I almost always solo Q for regs and I'm not worried about going against a premade because a good pug can hold their own anyday, it's been proven many times.

[Chimerako]

I love playing premades in solo queue because im actually good at pvp. However the majority of players dont enjoy being facerolled. Button pushers dont feel like thinking about pvp thus premades ruin their days.

 

I take it as a challenge. I like to see who i can piss off on the premade and make them over commit or get too far out of position. Instead of trying to win especially if my team is horrible i go for the little victories.

[Evanouss]

LOL was in a match the other day, 6/8 quit before it started since the other team was a premade easily obtained information with a /who check..but yeah keep rolfstomping with your premades and all the que times you ***** about solo ques creating are coming true anyways. Imbalance, lack of a reg solo que, lack of developer attention is killing pvp in this game. You're premades alienate a certain percentage of the player base....and it's clearly large...hence all the posts about it on the forums, but yeah all your clever quips about this being an MMO and solo quers joining together to form teams isn't going to change anything. New players walk into pvp...get roflstomped by a premade and never come back...who the F would blame them. Stepping into matches and getting entrance camped is going to turn every new player away. I'm not an advocate for change, but if something isn't done soon all that's going to be left is a small group of premades waiting an hour for ques to pop.

[Vashadan]

The only drawback I personally have experienced from premades is that they actually can and will kill ques.

This usually works against 1 of the factions, and altough it has happend more often on the rep side of TRE I have also seen it happen to imps.

Once a good group of ppl team up and start trashing any1 else..the rest of the players will either jump faction, or stop queing.

Very few remain to tackle this challenge, some just to get a daily done and/or similar.

Or like me they enjoy a challenge and keep at it, as most of the good matches are against premades and I rarely que up with other ppl, even tho I know alot of good players who would tip the odds in our favor...if all I cared about is winning.

There are plenty of bad premades, but I do like the fact that ppl que with their friends to have fun. That is what regs should be about, if you are going for boosting your ego...short answer, get a life.

Then again, PvP is more and more becoming less and less, just w8 for the effing new warzone and then you can complain some more.

 

Other than that this whole topic has been worn out.

Matchmaking and no real player pool to draw from.

Since it is all server wide when it comes to PvP most of you can guess when the que is gonna die, and who is going to keep queing because they "want to win AND like to play with their friends."

However, most premades have by now figured out that somehow the que times increase, for some reason unknown to be sure...just do not blame it on BW, and perish the thought they care either way.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=867066

 

Prove me wrong....

[Icykill_]

Premades ...because there are so many bads in pugs, it is nearly impossible to get a semi competent pug group.

I am usually completely amazed if I get a pug group that has everyone with crystals equiped in weapons or at level 65 that people aren't wearing the highest lvl PVE gear with 900 expertise.

Premades are the only way to have at least half a competent team. Even if the other half are bads, the 4 of you should be able to carry them if your good enough.

There are lots of premade teams that aren't super good, but have some ability. These teams are usually what pugs used to be like. They aren't super good, they just know how to play.

People who think premades ruin PVP are wrong in my opinion, premades are the only thing keeping PVP going.

I often find random competent players to form premades, just so we have like minded PVP people on our team.

If anyone is finding issues playing against premades then I suggest you ask competent people you find in matches if they want to form a premade.

[jenlen]

If BW will not improve matchmaking or do solo queues there is only one way to combat premades driving people away from PVP (and they are, deny it all you wish it is true).

 

Everyone who ends up in a pug group facing queue-synced premades should exit the warzone. Convince your team to ALL exit. If everyone did this they would get tired of it in a hurry.

[-Bob-]

premades driving people away from PVP (and they are, deny it all you wish it is true).

.

 

No its not, BeeDubyas shytty game engine and sub par coding are what has been driving people away from the beginning. It's a slow cascade from day 1. Their neglect to certain areas of this game has resulted in the current populations and game play we suffer with now. not premades.

[jedcjedcjedc]

If BW will not improve matchmaking or do solo queues there is only one way to combat premades driving people away from PVP (and they are, deny it all you wish it is true).

True because you say it is, huh? you know what drives me away? getting a team full of people that don't know what the heck they're doing who refuse to cooperate and think their 500 expertise is just fine.

[Sundown]

Why is it people always exaggerate so much? Just to make a point/case?

 

I can't see PUGs being as bad as described (like no crystals, all PVE-Gear and such). Most of the time they are alright. Maybe not BiS - but neither am I for the most part (ok, that might make me part of the problem rather than the solution then ). Most of the time people have some kind of grasp, they just might lack coordination, which is natural if you just have chat to communicate, so ad hoc switches are difficult and a bazillion of strategies which are not all compatible.

 

I also can't see premades being the rule. At least not on my server (T3-M4). Sure, there is people grouping up, but hardly ever I see trinities of FOTM-classes. It happens, but not as frequently as described here.

 

I do agree that it is no fun to leave the spawn-point just to get hammered by 4 and be picked apart . That is when you need to work on exit strategies (no, not leaving the WZ) to avoid that from happening.

And I do agree that is sucks to be grouped with 4 DPS against 2 Heals, 1 Tank 1 DPS to be essentially worn down. But if you at least manage to win a round - all the sweeter.

 

I also hardly ever witness the amount of swearing I read about here. It is usually pretty civil.

 

So what's my point? I really doubt that there is the single one thing that ruins the experience or kills PvP. I consider that an excuse. Simple solutions to complex issues hardly ever work unfortunately.

[FatEdd]

First off, I run solo ques every once and a while and I do fine... the odds are a little more scued to say I'll win about 70% of the time compred to when I run with my friends I'll win about 90% of the time... but guess what? That's what an mmo is all about... Running and completing content with your friends.... quit crying about premades. They aren't ruining pvp... if I had to solo que every day I probably wouldn't play this game because I couldn't play with my friends. If I wanted to play a single player game, I would play Skyrim... or something much better than this.

 

Quit ************ about premades... 50% of the posts on this forum come from people who are just salty after they got **** on by some team and now they need to go to the forums and tell everyone how game breaking it is.... Like shove off, realize that you're complaining abut unranked warzones... like LOL!!!! NEWS FLASH! THEY DON'T COUNT FOR ANYTHING!!!! If you lose on an unranked wz you get 50 less comms and have to do an extra one to get your weekly done. Get over it and stop complaining on the forums because when you do everyone will just tell you that you're a ******* anyways.

 

I agree with you to a certain extent, I really do, but there is nothing worse than coming up against a full pre-made when you are in a group that is missing 2-3 players. It does not matter how it is dressed up, it can be so one sided it does not matter who you are or how good you are, with 2-3 players down vs a full team of 8, and in that 8 is a pre-made is quite frankly unfair, period. I will also add, that if it is one sided, I will leave, not because of the poor souls in our group unable to compete, just out of defiance for the poor queuing system.

 

I think they should limit a group in regular warzones to just 2, being honest with you. This would mean that those who would normally stomp everything with their 4 man pre-made would possibly have to fight each other, which means a more even grouping up system, and probably even numbers in each side, possibly. It would also to me prove that most in 4 man pre-mades are overrated and unable to compete at the level they think they can. Granted Death Smile do not require 4 man pre-mades to stomp you, they are just genuinely the dogs at pvp. But the rest, I am sorry, once you get them out of their pre-mades are just regular and most simple to kill. So yes, 4 man pre-mades unfortunately spoil pvp.

 

I understand a full pre-made in Ranked, not doubting that, but in regulars, something could be done to curb the one sided matches. It kills the pvp sometimes and is not fun when you are up against a full 8 vs 5 or something. Where is the fun and fairness in that?. None at all. Although if you have high end healer with you, you can wreck an 8 man squad by yourself , as the opposition well learned last night that if I have my healer with me, then watch your backs. That is my pre-made just a high end healer, is all you need.

 

I get what you are saying though mate, and you are obviously not concerned if you get your anal handed to you with men down in your group. For newer players, that can only be a put off can't it?.

 

Now before one of my numerous idiotic enemies starts on me, I will give you an example. Last night, can not remember the guilds name, but they had their 4 man pre-made, which I ended up in with my mate, and we did pretty well, however, the opposition was a rarely even match up. I took 963k damage and managed 1.4m damage, only because I had my healer with me and was in an agreeable group,nothing else. Now I had the opposition side on me throughout all 8 of them, and if it was not for my healing friend who I will add is one of the best in the game as far as I am concerned, I would not have done that damage, period. Now if I had been on the opposition, without that healer with me keeping me up, I would not have even broke 400k damage probably. But all I had was 1 in my group, and because that healer is able to keep me alive regardless of who is on me and how many, it allows me to wreck. Now that is an example of being in the right group, isn't it?. Without certain people with me, I will get crushed.

 

So having the right people in your group, regardless of who you are, helps and the groups can be so one sided it is more agreeable to leave out of defiance more than anything. It has to me nothing to do with the poor people in that group being crushed. Not their fault, but it is the AI not recognizing how to match up more evenly.

 

Nice comment though and an honest opinion from you. I respect that. What I do not respect though are 4 man pre-mades. Bar Death Smile, other pre-mades are only masking their inability to solo PVP as far as I am concerned. I have proved that time and time again.

 

I think they could possibly rectify the problem by limiting a group to 2 people, instead of 4 in regular warzones. That makes it more competitive and possibly more evenly matched. But the AI is not the brightest of AI when matching up teams.

 

Still, it is nice when you have a top class healer with you, and the opposition obsessed with primary 1, get utterly smashed . Love that, lol.

 

Cheers

 

Fat'Edd

Edited March 1, 2016 by FatEdd

[Floplag]

No its not, BeeDubyas shytty game engine and sub par coding are what has been driving people away from the beginning. It's a slow cascade from day 1. Their neglect to certain areas of this game has resulted in the current populations and game play we suffer with now. not premades.

 

im sorry but i feel this is a copout. it doesnt matter what BW has or has not done its not an excuse to do things in game that are counter productive.

 

The person makes a very valid point that those who like running premades will quickly dismiss, but there is an argument to be made about it especially in regard to new players of which we have seen a lot of them recently based on my observations since my return.

 

Those new players wander into pvp and get rolled by a premade, you think they are going to be exited about the gameplay there and return? We as a community do nothing to build it up, and everything possible to shart the bed and blow it up in terms of how we treat new players in general and certainly how we farm them.

 

Thats not BW fault, thats our own fault as a community. Even if the engine was perfect this would stil be happening, it doesnt in every game that allows it.

[-Bob-]

im sorry but i feel this is a copout. it doesnt matter what BW has or has not done its not an excuse to do things in game that are counter productive.

 

The person makes a very valid point that those who like running premades will quickly dismiss, but there is an argument to be made about it especially in regard to new players of which we have seen a lot of them recently based on my observations since my return.

 

Those new players wander into pvp and get rolled by a premade, you think they are going to be exited about the gameplay there and return? We as a community do nothing to build it up, and everything possible to shart the bed and blow it up in terms of how we treat new players in general and certainly how we farm them.

 

Thats not BW fault, thats our own fault as a community. Even if the engine was perfect this would stil be happening, it doesnt in every game that allows it.

 

I can see your point but I feel it's a result of what i mentioned. The poor development and neglect has lead to many players abandoning this game and moving on to something else. Now we have a much lower population in this game, pvp servers are all but dead (rip Bastion) and lots of server consolidation etc. Without a large player base many things cannot be implemented or fail to work as intended. Things like group matching in WZs i think are a good example. With such a small pool of players you cant create Premade Que only, we're stuck with what we get. The argument that Xserver could help alleviate some of these issues is valid but again, we're limited by a less than stellar game engine. The new content is full of the same bugs and glitches and lag that have existed since launch. I personally have at least 25 friends that have quit over the years and several of them quit in the first 2 months and haven't cared to return and I'm sure others experienced the same. So i don't think that's a cop out, everything we have here is a result of the poor development and neglect to this game.

[Floplag]

I can see your point but I feel it's a result of what i mentioned. The poor development and neglect has lead to many players abandoning this game and moving on to something else. Now we have a much lower population in this game, pvp servers are all but dead (rip Bastion) and lots of server consolidation etc. Without a large player base many things cannot be implemented or fail to work as intended. Things like group matching in WZs i think are a good example. With such a small pool of players you cant create Premade Que only, we're stuck with what we get. The argument that Xserver could help alleviate some of these issues is valid but again, we're limited by a less than stellar game engine. The new content is full of the same bugs and glitches and lag that have existed since launch. I personally have at least 25 friends that have quit over the years and several of them quit in the first 2 months and haven't cared to return and I'm sure others experienced the same. So i don't think that's a cop out, everything we have here is a result of the poor development and neglect to this game.

 

Everything you say is true, but i just dont see it as a reason to do things that make it worse instead of doing those that should make it better.

The community in this game has no regard whatsoever for new players in pvp and in fact quite the opposite we have great disdain for them, and yet, we wonder why noone queues? It not logical, it makes no sense.

You cant blow them into oblivion and call them names type all the litle "rekt" quotes after a 4v1 and tell them not to ever queue again and then wonder why they dont queue. That has nothing whatever to do with anything BW has or has not done. Weve done that, not BW. We are the reason noone queues ranked, not BW.

Since ive come back ive seen what appears to be many new players asking questions on fleet and literally every one of them is met with some wisecrack rude response. We are shooting ourselves in the foot.

I usually end up whispering those people to try to help them so they dont get subjected to more abuse for doing nothing more than asking a question.

This is off topic but still... its been this way more or less since day 1, ive seen very few players make any effort at all to help grow the community.