Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Decae]

I just have to laugh at the slicers who made hundreds of thousands of credits for doing nothing. Every other crew skill loses money, even treasure hunting for lockboxes. Why should slicers automatically get huge amounts of credits for doing the same thing?

 

Are credits all you get back from the lockbox missions? or do you get gear that you can sell too? If you get gear then you're already getting back what the rest of us do. Sell it to make money like the rest of us.

 

Dont want to sell stuff? Then you don't want to trade skill. Having an auto-make-money option is ridiculous. There has to be some work involved.

 

Side note:

BW Please run some scans over the character base and remove all over-credits earned through Slicing up till the fix. You realize how fudged up the economy is now that some level 50's have a million credits and others have have 100k?

 

While they are doing that please remove all the creds any crafters made from selling items to slicers.

[Zekhart]

They need to look at it properly. People were complaining about the money and it was justified because, as a slicer myself, I was earning boat loads which shouldn't have been the case. But honestly just hear me out a sec.

 

Slicing is a Gathering skill so equal to scavenging except its not equal to the other gathering skills. The other gathering skills you put money in to get materials with which you can craft and item to use or sell or just sell the materials out right. Depending on the economy this always leads to profit. Slicing doesn't have the 2nd luxury of using materials gathered to craft. So that line of making money is blocked. You can't just sell the lockboxs on the AH, if you could who would buy the gamble, so that lines blocked too. So really its a gathering skill that takes money and gives us back less and not more. Thats not how gathering skills are suppose to work. You invest money and time and should get back mostly minor sometimes major yields of profit. Now augments could solve the problem but again its a chance of getting the rare ones and the chance of getting the right stats and thats IF the augment market starts to become profitable with the augment class 6 missions being 1.7-2k credits a piece to gather.

 

Now some people say we could just go out into the world and slice terminals for pure profit. Isn't that the same as a Scavenger going to a scrap pile and getting materials off that. Thats not pure profit aswell?

 

Now don't get me wrong i'm not asking for slicing to be reverted back to what it was. But if they just looked at the numbers making sure each lockbox mission was profitable even by 10 credits each time it would still make it worth the money much like its worth the money for a scavenger to do their missions for the materials.

As the Codex States: Slicing is not a skill required for crafting. It's the art of acquiring Valuable items, credits, tech schematics and augments. The Valuable items is the Mission discoveries (chance). Were no longer gathering credits were losing them. Tech schematics (chance) and Augments.

 

Anyway thats my 2 cents on the matter i just want the values looked at so that slicing can be worthwhile otherwise ill end up rerolling underworld trading for more money (crafting epic ship parts and what not)

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zekhart

[QDMcGraw]

I still make plenty of money on Slicing. Maybe not as much, I've lost a mere 15% of my income, if that. Those that are losing money are doing the skill wrong, that simple.

[TorThorfindorf]

Keep in mind that gathering skills do more than make money. If you want to get a shortcut directly to bosses in the flashpoints you can slice elevators to bypass 10+ minutes of trash clearing. I have personally used archaeology to bypass trash, and a friend of mine used scavenging to do the same. The gathering skills do much more than people realize and are only in it for the money. I was on the slicing band wagon myself but I decided to go back to treasure hunting so that I can make my own Artifice blues and purples and sell extra stuff on the GTN.

[ezrafetch]

I just have to laugh at the slicers who made hundreds of thousands of credits for doing nothing. Every other crew skill loses money, even treasure hunting for lockboxes. Why should slicers automatically get huge amounts of credits for doing the same thing?

 

Are credits all you get back from the lockbox missions? or do you get gear that you can sell too? If you get gear then you're already getting back what the rest of us do. Sell it to make money like the rest of us.

 

Dont want to sell stuff? Then you don't want to trade skill. Having an auto-make-money option is ridiculous. There has to be some work involved.

 

Side note:

BW Please run some scans over the character base and remove all over-credits earned through Slicing up till the fix. You realize how fudged up the economy is now that some level 50's have a million credits and others have have 100k?

 

Too bad that since Slicing is nerfed and no one gets creds, your mats and craftables are less likely to be sold, and you're sure as heck not going to be able to turn over all you make as fast since it's not going to be sold as quickly or for as much.

 

There's a 1.5mil speeder available for purchase (I am 99% sure that's the price). A million credits is not a lot of creds at all. Speeder training alone at lvl25 is 40k, so with all these training costs (for skills) for leveling, 100k creds is virtually on the precipice of bankruptcy. There is no reason to have people in this game struggling to get by when you can promote a healthier market. Unless BW's intention is to have a really slow, deflated market, they need to find a way to inject more creds into the economy, either through restoring Slicing (even partially, as I'd prefer) or adjusting some other way. But as it is now...this market is hardly healthy.

Edited December 28, 2011 by ezrafetch

[DarkenSOV]

Gotta say it was nice when i hit the point where if i crit i started turning a profit, now i send them on a rich yield mission to get a lock box and if i get lucky and they dont fail im spending 1k to send them and they return with a green box that gave me 700? My green boxes previously were at the very least, even with bad luck, covering the cost of sending the people.

[Anzel]

So I went ahead and checked the numbers using this guys slicing data spreadsheet. This is the best spreadsheet around in my opinion, and it has more data than the rest that I have seen. These are also the highest grossing missions from before the nerf.

 

Missions: (numbers are credits per minute, yellow is pre nerf, red is post nerf)

 

17-24

 

Sullustan Conspiracy: 72.12 -5.88

For Better Or Worse: 79.59 22.86

 

25-32

 

Arranged Accidents: 98.66 -5.11 (minimal data post nerf)

Prince Of Fools: 99.54 8.74

The Automated Saboteur: 103.39 20.67

 

33-40

 

Pointing Fingers: 94.77 10.50

Be Careful What You Read: 97.76 18.61

 

41-48

 

Taking Back Control: 78.24 13.04

Finding Our Way: 80.30 19.95 (minimal data post nerf)

The Fly On The Wall: 93.56 17.62

 

As you can tell, this nerf was ridiculously and pointlessly large. It couldn't have been that far off from what Bioware's metrics told them was fine previous to release. What it looks like is we are being punished for people who were abusing the system with many different characters. What they should have done is just cap the number of companions that can be on a slicing mission per account to 5 and then cap the number of slicing missions you could do in a day. That would have kept the people who don't want to craft happy, while at the same time punishing people who would abuse the system.

 

If someone wants to quote my post and figure out the percentages for each mission and post them in a 3rd color that would be great. I don't have time to do it myself at the moment.

 

 

LOL, I have a spreadsheet going here as well and the NERF is insane. The skill is unusable at this point.

 

BIOWARE: THERE HAVE BEEN OVER 1250 RESPONSES IN THIS THREAD ALONE. A THREAD WHICH YOU PURPOSELY BURIED IN THE FORUMS HOPING NOBODY WOULD FIND IT. ARE YOU GOING TO ADDRESS THIS? YOUR CUSTOMERS ARE UNHAPPY. STILL NO WORD FROM YOU BIOWARE.

[Zannis]

I still make plenty of money on Slicing. Maybe not as much, I've lost a mere 15% of my income, if that. Those that are losing money are doing the skill wrong, that simple.

 

What am I doing wrong? The missions in the level 5 and 6 range all seem to be losing me money on a pretty regular basis.

 

I'm making more credits from the random nodes I find while questing.

[jihn]

As so many others, i would like to applaude BW on making an entire profession totally useless. While i understand a slight nerf or restriction was justified, the current nerf is way beyond me.

 

Instead they should have restricted how high your skill can according to your lvl, ex lvl 30 needed for slicing 300, and 40+ for 400. They should probably have done this across all professions.

 

Crafters get their own rewards in the items they can sell for a hefty profit, and keep the very best items for themselves if they so wish. While as a non crafter, you are now stuck with grinding mobs/missions to get any relevant amount of income. Or forced to take off a crafter profession yourself, in turn reducing the overall value of crafted items on the GTN.

 

Also have to say that i started with slicing to have a little extra credits as i was leveling, but as i am rapidly approaching 50, there is no point for me to have this profession at all since it yields nothing at all.

[bukosknr]

I feel the solution should be across the board for all skills, you can't craft (slice) more then one tier above your level. This would resolve almost all issues, at least initially.

 

With a young economy I think that there needs to be a way for people to get and spend their money. For all you crafters that are saying you feel vindicated that it was FINALLY nerfed and HAHAHAHA no money for you, well that means no money for you either, see its the same money.

[AidenPryde]

I would just like to point out that Bioware probably assumed that you would also be slicing boxes in the open world to get credits, not just sitting back sending companions on missions hoping that they would bring the profit to you.

[Ravenight]

BIOWARE: THERE HAVE BEEN OVER 1250 RESPONSES IN THIS THREAD ALONE. A THREAD WHICH YOU PURPOSELY BURIED IN THE FORUMS HOPING NOBODY WOULD FIND IT. ARE YOU GOING TO ADDRESS THIS? YOUR CUSTOMERS ARE UNHAPPY. STILL NO WORD FROM YOU BIOWARE.

 

Bioware has locked almost all of the other threads dealing with Slicing to focus everyone here. They have even posted this at the end of the locked threads. Please give them some credit to focusing this topic to one thread so it is easier to follow.

[Morticoccus]

What I don't understand is why Bioware doesn't just remove slicing alltogether, or at least the mission aspect of it. They have already crippled it to near uselessness.

 

I mean if the main reason to pick the skill was to earn money (And don't start with the pointless augment babble, those things are not worth getting) then nerfing income by 70% is idiotic.

 

A smaller nerf would be fine, but as it is now they've made the skill cost less to level up than other skills, but not much more than that, a skill you can level up because it's cheaper that has no point to level up.

 

Can you smell that recursion? =p

[Kraun]

I would just like to point out that Bioware probably assumed that you would also be slicing boxes in the open world to get credits, not just sitting back sending companions on missions hoping that they would bring the profit to you.

 

Ok i'll feed the troll..

 

Grade 5 lockboxes pre-nerf = 1000-2200 credits per mission and mission times 22-40+minutes, the "profit" was roughly 400-1200 credits per run (don't forget, it takes up to 40+ minutes at this grade level) which i make in pure credit drops in less than 5-10 minutes of killing mobs.

 

Grade 5 lockboxes post-nerf = 1000-2200 creds per mission, same times, 22-40+ minutes and the boxes return roughly 400-1200 credits, thats a minimun loss of 600 credits and minimun of 22 minutes.

 

I bet the whiners are happy now, don't cry when crafting-mission and augment prices skyrocket with minimum of 700% net.

 

You got your nerf, now live with it.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Kraun

[Saporah]

Ok i'll feed the troll..

 

Grade 5 lockboxes pre-nerf = 1000-2200 credits per mission and mission times 22-40+minutes, the "profit" was roughly 400-1200 credits per run (don't forget, it takes up to 40+ minutes at this grade level) which i make in pure credit drops in less than 5-10 minutes of killing mobs.

 

Grade 5 lockboxes post-nerf = 1000-2200 creds per mission, same times, 22-40+ minutes and the boxes return roughly 400-1200 credits, thats a minimun loss of 600 credits and minimun of 22 minutes.

 

I bet the whiners are happy now, don't cry when crafting-mission and augment prices skyrocket with minimum of 700% net.

 

You got your nerf, now live with it.

 

He's not trolling to offer a valid opinion in an open discussion.

 

[RANT]

What's with everyone's obsession these days with calling people trolls and fanboys ? If you say something negative you're a troll. If you say something positive you're a fanboy. Just because someone has a different opinion then you doesn't make them retarded or up to mischief. It takes all kinds to make the world go round, get use it and learn to respect differences, people!!!

[/RANT]

 

Anyways also if you read what he said he's not complaining about the nerf, he's justifying it.

 

Personally since the "nerf" I had less negative returns from slicing then I use to. I wonder if they didn't decrease the credit return window on both ends, you know, less gain but less loss, more steady... I would have to test more to be sure though.

[Deathmvp]

Here is a idea to make the augment mission more worth it that I posted in another thread.

 

 

 

How about something that when you crit with a Augment mission you get a item that will alow the crafter to 100% crit on the next crafting item. This would be something that all crafters would want and will make the slicers want to do the Augment missions. As for my self I have not found the Augment missions worth is since they do not sell much and my other toons never seem to crit when crafting.

[muleDArule]

this!

I bet the whiners are happy now, don't cry when crafting-mission and augment prices skyrocket with minimum of 700% net.

 

The slicers' guild will never forget this attack, you will pay, the one way or the other.

[Jessie-Lacey]

once again, I just want to know why anyone would use the GTN when the prices will drop down to the point that it's more profitable to use the vendors to get rid of stuff. it's very close as it, a lot of the blue patterns I get are about 600 on the ah and 350 to a vendor, so I save the time and vendor it. Plus who's going to farm augments that cost 2000 a piece and sell for 1500 or less when people keep undercutting. It's going to really throw the balance off, just wait a week, the GTN will be empty.

 

meanwhile, I'm going to continue questing so I can max out and hopefully by then they will not reverse the nerf, but correct it. 50% of the original would be fine, but this losing money on a profession that was based around making money and with nothing to show does not work.

 

people say, oh now you get to spend money like the rest of us, at least you get a product to show. I'm not going to farm augments that sell for less than the cost of a mission, your logic is broken same as slicing.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Jessie-Lacey

[Kellindell]

Yesterday after slicing ALL day as my only profession I netted a wopping 2900 credits for occupying my companion all day.

 

I got no other bonuses, no missions, no schematics, nothing.

 

Today, ive done nothing but lose money.

 

I really want to keep slicing for the cybertech patterns, but if im going to lose money with nothing in return, why bother?

 

People counter argue that every other crew skill loses money.

 

NO IT DOESNT.

 

You give money to get materials.

 

Right now Slicers are giving money to just throw it away for nothing.

 

Slicing needs to become some sort of craft, or something needs to happen because right now its worthless. Once I get my cybertech patterns from it, im done with it.

 

i really wish I was one of those lucky people with who really zerged it and made like 5 million credits before it became worthless.

[Cayse_Harker]

I, for one, welcome our new Chinese Credit Farming overlords.

[Octagonn]

What I don't understand is why Bioware doesn't just remove slicing alltogether, or at least the mission aspect of it. They have already crippled it to near uselessness.

 

I mean if the main reason to pick the skill was to earn money (And don't start with the pointless augment babble, those things are not worth getting) then nerfing income by 70% is idiotic.

 

A smaller nerf would be fine, but as it is now they've made the skill cost less to level up than other skills, but not much more than that, a skill you can level up because it's cheaper that has no point to level up.

 

Can you smell that recursion? =p

 

I was wondering why it looked like I was loosing money slicing. So I went to put up the schematics, missions, and such on the GTN and there were so many there already that they were close to selling for vendor prices.

 

Sad to see it but a lot of mmo's nerf stuff to hell, then they can say problem solved. Like they did in SWG. It takes them too much time to cut it back in increments until an acceptable point is reached. So in the long run it becomes more profitable, in money and leveling to just grind, in pvp, mobs, or flashpoints. No spending hours running from here to there for crafting, just pick a spot and grind. Nerf to much and the player base moves on to a play for free mmo.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Octagonn

[Stathor]

I, for one, welcome our new Chinese Credit Farming overlords.

 

So true.. LOL

[Amaranth]

I, for one, welcome our new Chinese Credit Farming overlords.

 

lol You win the thread.

[SeedyJ]

I was wondering why it looked like I was loosing money slicing. So I went to put up the schematics, missions, and such on the GTN and there were so many there already that they were close to selling for vendor prices.

 

Sad to see it but a lot of mmo's nerf stuff to hell, then they can say problem solved. Like they did in SWG. It takes them too much time to cut it back in increments until an acceptable point is reached. So in the long run it becomes more profitable, in money and leveling to just grind, in pvp, mobs, or flashpoints. No spending hours running from here to there for crafting, just pick a spot and grind. Nerf to much and the player base moves on to a play for free mmo.

 

Indeed, but the problem is that grinding is about as much fun as a head-swap operation.

 

Was gonna play SWTOR earlier, but then thought "no, there's some paint drying in the next room, i'll watch that for a bit instead".

[Thanatosx]

I, for one, welcome our new Chinese Credit Farming overlords.

 

QFT.

 

...I wonder if I can get my own personal Chinese farmer to farm credits for me daily...like a companion...that would be awesome. (just being facetious - before someone takes me seriously)