Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Walfredo]

what's the point of skilling up a skill that LOSES YOU MONEY and GIVES NO OTHER BENEFIT.

 

IT DOESN'T UNLESS YOU'RE A COMPLETE IDIOT AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW MONEY WORKS, IN GAME AND IN ACTUAL EVERYDAY LIFE.

 

:eek::eek:

 

Capslock much man?

[Misnomer]

I only got through the first page before I got tired of reading about everyone not making money off slicing. I think the majority of people crying about the change don't realize the point of gathering professions and crew skill missions. The way I see it, there are nodes throughout the game where you gather your mats. If you're doing space combat or instances or pvp you probably aren't going to encounter these nodes. So you can pay to send your crew out to get you mats while you're doing these things. No one does these missions to gather mats to put them on the market, they use these mats to further their main crafting skill. Then you're reverse engineering the things you craft in an attempt to reclaim some mats so you can make something else to get another skill point in your craft and/or "learn" an improved schematic. So there's no monetary gain in any of the other gathering missions. They brought slicing in line with the other gathering professions so now you'll have to struggle to buy your speeders and skills just like everyone else without slicing. If you want capital gain out of your skill, go farm up slicing nodes. Those are free.

[Adolm]

I'm not sending my crew out on slicing missions anymore. The potential profit isn't there anymore and you really feel the pain when a mission fails.

 

I just blew 20k on new artifice recipes too. I probably won't level my artifice now because I'm afraid I won't be able to alleviate those high costs anymore. Slicing used to pay for my other professions and was setting me up to have enough for my speeder trainings.

 

The nerf has really put a halt to not only my slicing, but also to my other professions because of their high costs. My only efficient option now is to just gather credit lockboxes and archeology nodes while questing/leveling. Talk about slowing down progress.

[Walfredo]

Now that slicing is utterly worthless people will just buy credits from farmers.

 

It's not worthless.

[Cayse_Harker]

I'm curious if BW could produce the CMR or justification document they used for this if challenged. I don't see how the same group of people who made this kick *** game could have thoughtfully come up with THIS solution to a minor mid-level mission imbalance. Some of the above posters have laid out really solid arguments for how this could stall and negatively impact a brand new economy and pre-50 player population.

 

Others have pointed out what used to be the interesting and elegant (design wise) place that slicing took up in the crafting model.

 

There were plenty of smaller changes that could have been made to prevent mid level mission farming that wouldn't have been so drastic.

 

Worse yet it introduces an unstable feeling into the game. If a profession change this drastic can come just a week after launch, then what's next? Should I just ignore the trade system if a fully leveled trade skill can just get destroyed in an eye blink?

[VioletZero]

Now that slicing is utterly worthless people will just buy credits from farmers.

 

I seriously don't understand all the whiners hating on slicing. ROLL A FREAKING ALT AND TAKE SLICING YOURSELF!

 

How hard would that have been?? In a way slicing was a genius move that could have rendered gold sellers completely obsolete. However the QQ'ers won again and in a few weeks when everyone is trying to buy all their skills and slots those same QQ'ers will be whining about how Bioware failed at keeping all the spammers out.

 

Thanks community, great job!

 

The reason gold sellers are so bad is because they ruin the economy.

 

Slicing may get rid of them, but only by ruining the economy more than they can.

[WickedTexan]

Crafting is going to be an utter waste of time in TOR just like in every other game. Just like in every other MMO crafting will be a net loss so that you can maybe make yourself a couple pieces of nice gear at end game. Come on now. Most of us have been around the block a couple times and we know how much of a money sink crafting really is. And you can still take an actual craft if there's something that you need to support yourself, like Bio or Cyber later on.

 

This is the underlying problem. Crafting should be difficult, and the rewards from it should be above what random flashpoint drop you get at max level. If Bioware wanted to think outside the box, you should get craft able gear at max level, and the junk that drops from operations should be mods to that armor that make the craft able stuff even better.

[schizoophrenic]

I am level 22 and have a current Slicing skill of 386. I have just over 250k credits in the bank and have spent well over 200k credits on the trade network for myself and my spouse's trade skills, equipment, raw materials, etc. This Nerf has all but halted my spending.

 

Most of my cash has come from augments, and mission schematics I've picked up from Slicing. However, as I posted back when the game first released (and twice in Beta): Slicing needed about a 20%-25% Nerf to the return amounts from Tier 1 through Tier 4. The higher Tiers were in-line and not outlandish in credit returns vs time and credit investment.

 

What this change shows are a few things, in my own opinion, that all result in a bad outcome:

 

- Slicing returns for lower Tiers have been talked about, /bugged, and feedback'd by many testers for many months. Now, after release, is when there is an adjustment? Poor form for taking testing data and feedback into consideration.

 

- The adjustment, i.e. Nerf, was far too severe. Exact percentages are not known yet, but it is very safe to assume the Nerf is well-beyond the needed. This nets in what looks to be a knee-jerk reaction by Bioware and makes them look more like Blizzard than a company that uses in-game data.

 

- The skill has to make a profit. There simply is no other reason for the skill: you trade your ability to obtain rare crafting materials for the ability to obtain credits to pay for those materials. Plain and simple. Now, the Slicing skill cannot pay for itself to level up, let alone turn a profit. Without profits, there will be less purchasing, and without purchasing there will be less buying on the trade network of crafting items and crafted equipment -- which is already WAY too low to sustain a healthy game economy anyway.

 

- Slicing schematics and missions prices are going to go through the roof. If you think that other crafters are already poor or low on credits, just wait. As it stands right now other crafting skills make little credits; especially gathering skills -- They are all a time and credit sink. However, this change will have a direct impact on all of those skills via the Slicing rewards' prices.

 

All-in-all, this was a very poor change.

 

This. +1 Million,Succinctly stated and well put sir!.

[Walfredo]

I'm not sending my crew out on slicing missions anymore. The potential profit isn't there anymore and you really feel the pain when a mission fails.

 

If you are failing missions for lockboxes, you are not going about slicing in money-gaining fashion. You need to reevaluate how you are doing slicing, and learn how to play the game.

[EvanSnowWolf]

The reason gold sellers are so bad is because they ruin the economy.

 

Slicing may get rid of them, but only by ruining the economy more than they can.

 

Wrong. First of all, Slicing is NOT against the Terms of Service. Second of all, anyone can Slice.

[ArchonGamer]

on to your point. Slicing isn't about credits actually.

 

Are you on the development team? So you made part of slicing that say LOCK BOXES (which = credits) and it wasn't about earning credits?

 

Go to another bridge troll.

 

And running just Augments from slicing is no viable at all. Augments are not a usable resources such as metals from Scavenging. IF all the slicers just ran augment missions the AH would be so over loaded, augments would just be vendor trash. Which since you were part of the Dev team, it probably wasn't what you wanted.

[HelmetHarry]

Well I guess in the end we'll have two choices. Make schematics and missions we get from slicing vendor food, or start to overcharge to make up our losses and really screw up the GTN. I'm for the latter. Nerf that you bastards.

[Trigenetic]

Slicing seems to have become somewhat of a joke, the money you get for 30 minutes with 3 companions is usually much less than you get for a 15 minute warzone run and the rare drops from slicing so rare its silly.

 

Hope you can up this somewhat again cause it feels quite useless as it is now.

[Fellfromgrace]

The reason gold sellers are so bad is because they ruin the economy.

 

Slicing may get rid of them, but only by ruining the economy more than they can.

 

Yup, people can make fun all they want and say it won't lead to spamming but it will.

 

If you were to poll people in WoW why most of them purchased gold a great majority would say it was to buy their mounts and the skills to use them.

 

Star Wars was genius b/c you could slice to pay for these things. There was absolutely no reason for anyone who wanted to cut corners to purchase credits with cash. Therefore there wasn't any spam.

 

I guarantee by the end of the week all planets will be spammed now.

 

In short I get more annoyed by all the damn spam then I do about the economy. Throw in the fact that there will be no looking for group tool and now your entire chat box will be.

 

LF healer

LF tank

BUY CREDITS ONLY 2.99 AT RANDOM CHINESE SITE

LF Healer

Chuck Norris this

Chuck Norris that

BUY CREDITS SUSY LOVES YOUY AMERICA

BUY half off 20% free OF CHARGE

 

Thanks QQ'ers

[Hidalgo]

I think this is great because it was so simple that even chinese gold /credit farmers were using it to stock pile credits to sell.

 

I think people who refuse to learn a skill should miss out versus the people who actualy contribute to the player econamy

 

except that the cost to get resources from other skills is so high that if you try to sell your resources no one will buy them because no one is getting money because it costs to much to harvest.

[Xandes]

The fact is that you could have a level 10 alt sit in the station all day and rake in tons of credits. This shouldn't be possible. It also shouldn't be a requirement to have slicing on a character in order to purchase items off the GTN, which is exactly where it was heading. Prices will normalize now, and it won't be impossible for someone who is just starting out to purchase things.

 

Every single person in my guild had slicing either on their main, or rolled an alt to 10 specifically for it, if that doesn't scream please nerf me, what does?

[Zennshi]

I dont feel like looking it up, but the devs said they didnt want comapnion skills to be something you can just sit in town and win at- with slicing, you can play like that. not sure if this change fixes that, but slicing should be about getting augments, recipes and blue/purple quests etc- not some sort of "free money lol" mandatory skill.

 

Are you serious? You can sit in town, feed money to an alt, and have them do the exact same ****. Make a UWT alt and its the EXACT.SAME.****.

[Belsader]

Well this IS BioWare's first MMO. Pity they didn't learn a damn thing from all the rest of the MMOs out there.

 

Yeah, I feel the same. Going overboard with nerfs this early is a really bad sign - I'd expected better than that here. I'm reluctant to even play today (I haven't in fact) and I've been on as much as possible since pre-launch.

 

You know once they start swinging the nerf bat it's not going to stop.

[Toggles]

This wasn't a nerf-for-a-much-needed-(but-not-really)-misunderstood-as-OP-but-not-really-OP-in-the-grand-scheme-of-things change. This was someone giving Bam-Bam a nerf stick and setting him loose to wreak havoc.

 

Seriously, people have the nerve to complain about slicing and say things like 'sitting in your ship printing money' when they're going to be 'sitting in their ship taking other people's printed money' (ie-quest rewards/mob drops) via items. Oh but the existance of the middle man known as 'items' makes it all okay! *sigh* We truly are dirty ones, my fellow slicers, for removing the middle man.

 

I just don't get the blatant hatred toward slicing, especially when ANYONE and EVERYONE can do it. It's not like the mission rewards scale based off of the economy or anything. Even if it was soooooooooooooo OP like the doom-gloomers were lamenting about, it'd eventually even itself out.

 

Could slicing have used a nerf? Honestly, no... but I would be totally understanding of a little one since people have trouble seeing how slicing is no different from gather or crafting, just without the middle man. So sure, for the sake of their frail understandings I can take a small hit.

 

Was this nerf way overboard? Simply, yes, very much so.

 

 

A crafter/gatherer sends his companions out for 1hr on mission and what do they have to show for it? -credits +items

 

A slicer sends his companions out for 1hr on missions and ends up with -credits or maybe +100 credits, no items.

 

 

Hmm, glad we're wasting our companion's (and by proxy, our) time.

 

 

 

 

But don't worry slicers! This nerf is so obviously overboard that it'll soon be buffed back up into a reasonable state... still doomed as always though since it doesn't scale unlike crafted items and materials will but hey, the crafters are angry that non-crafters are able to have fun and participate in a 'crafting' system and well... we can't have the kids whining now, can we.

 

The notion that you can do slicing and not only lose money, but lose significant money is just backwards and completely undoes any reason for it to exist... either that or buff the crap out of mission discoveries to 'add the middle man' which so many people seem bent on needing in order to understand.

[WickedTexan]

except that the cost to get resources from other skills is so high that if you try to sell your resources no one will buy them because no one is getting money because it costs to much to harvest.

 

Agreed. +1

[ThirtyTwoAlpha]

I think this is great because it was so simple that even chinese gold /credit farmers were using it to stock pile credits to sell.

 

I think people who refuse to learn a skill should miss out versus the people who actualy contribute to the player econamy

 

I bought a lot of stuff from the GTN with my slicing credits, dummy.

Edited December 28, 2011 by ThirtyTwoAlpha

[VioletZero]

except that the cost to get resources from other skills is so high that if you try to sell your resources no one will buy them because no one is getting money because it costs to much to harvest.

 

I think you are exaggerating.

 

The amount of money you get from quests, PvP, selling junk, dailies, etc is crazy already.

[Alegebra]

If you are failing missions for lockboxes, you are not going about slicing in money-gaining fashion. You need to reevaluate how you are doing slicing, and learn how to play the game.

 

Please elaborate. I ran a Rich mission which was grey to me (I'm level 375) and it failed. What exactly do I need to reevaluate?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Alegebra

[DarthVertices]

Well, dropping slicing after dropping underworkd trading to pick it up. I dropped UT because it was cheaper to just buy the blue and purple quality metals for my synthweaving off the GTN rather than pay for the mission. After getting slicing to 400 I had just enough to get my speeder training at 25 and get my skills.

 

I spent part of the day sending my companions on missions for slicing losing a total of 1400 credits in the course of 8 hours, and since no one uses the augments they are an even higher loss. Add to this fact regardless of their fix on "unharvestable" nodes they still exist, and for about every 3 I see I can harvest 1.

 

Thank you for the Blizzard-esque knee jerk nerf. Apparently they are more concerned with people making profit in the game in which to enjoy and purchase things in it wrather than fixing another GLARING issue that is plaguing the true crafting community....the GTN.

 

 

 

I play on 1 GTX580 and I run 60-90FPS (120HZ monitor) and never have visual issues. You're either full of crap about your setup, or you're doing something wrong. I've got buddies running this on 1 560Ti with similar performance.

 

 

TL:DR I call BS on your dual 580's having problems.

 

 

I don't what to tell you kid. Yes I run dual EVGA GTX 580s superclocked. The batman editions to be specific. I have 4x AA turned on via client_settings.ini. Yes for the most part I get 60fps with vsync enabled but there are areas where this drops to 30fps, like in IF or my spaceship, or other areas that really don't look superhot but nonetheless drop your FPS.

 

I'm not doing anything wrong. I can afford GTX 580s because I own a professional IT services business providing outsourced managed IT services to other companies. And yes I know what I'm doing. This game doesn't run nearly as well as it should considering how it looks and considering the horsepower I throw at it. BF3 on Ultra blows this game away in visuals and runs faster.

[xDoomsDayx]

Ya know. 1 simple fix to this could have been limiting slicing to 1 char only per side, per account. This would have made it to where people couldn't abuse it by creating 8 chars to run slicing. And thats just 1 thought of how they could have handled this better than nerfing the living **** out of the skill.

 

I will say it again, THINK before you nerf. Plan out, dont just react and screw everything up by having a knee jerk nerf.