Damage Meters

[dakalro]

In other words your self esteem are so low you NEEDto tell others how bad they are so you can feel good yourself.

You just want a hammer you can bash others over the head with when they dont do as much dps and whatnot as you DEMAND they do, just so you can hide your inability to learn and adapt to a situation.

 

Have you even tried playing any other game than wow?

I have, and of them had this stupid meter thing, yet nobody in these games seem to have any problem completing any of the content.

 

By adding these stupid meters all you do is divide the community based solely on arbitrary numbers and nothing else.

To say that a player is bad purely based on a completely arbitrary number is condescending towards that player.

 

You have no way to know if a player is good or bad purely based on these arbitrary numbers.

Its arrogant and stupid and the only bad player is in that case you by saying that others are bad just because they dont meet your completely arbitrary standards.

 

What good does high DPS do anyway when the encounter is based on skill, situational awareness and cooperation rather than a DPS race?

This game dont even have a combat log so a meter would not help anything.

The content of the game is designed to be done by paying attention to what is actually happening and adapting to a situation, not so you can sit and watch your favorite TV show while mashing the same 3 buttons over and over all the time.

 

I play thins game for fun and entertainment, not as another job where I constantly have to try and squeeze out every last point of dps I can of my char and then some.

I want to do things with others and have fun doing so, and if we cant beat a boss I want us to discuss the encounter and find out what we are doing wrong and change our tactics to adapt, rather than to just replace some random player for not having enough DPS.

 

TL;DR:

Simply put, YOU need a dps meter so you can hide behind some arbitrary numbers giving you the illusion of being good, when the truth is that you have no idea whatsoever how to play the game in any other way.

 

Some news, it's not elitists kicking low dps people, it's people slightly less bad than the bad getting kicked. In WoW I literally have no kick timer because I never votekick, I have enough dps so that I can simply make up for the 2 others, I have enough dps and gear and control as a tank that I make up for at least 1 dps and as healer there isn't that much to heal that I oom. I simply facepalm, abuse the people, over vent, have some laughs and endure.

 

But make no mistake, I endure, it feels exactly like the random idiot at work that makes you cringe every day when they fail the most basic task and never seem to get it, and sometimes worse, they show no interest. But I can't fire them. Well, a group kick is that option many of us want at work, get rid of the guy that is useless. I wish they implemented in in real life, without the hassle of having the boss protect them.

 

While I don't expect people to treat MMOs like a job this is not farmville, this is not single player.

 

I expect other to show me a modicum of respect for the time I put in, for the fact that it's not only their time being used, for the fact that they don't play along 3 AIs with no feelings, emotions, patience and without infinite time.

 

Contrary to popular opinion being a hardcore elitist doesn't require a basement, no job and 24/7 on the computer. I have a bloody mortgage to pay and between a job and finishing up a night of heroic DS wiping I would like to not be insulted by most of the players I group with because they believe they are not required to do anything above 1 button press and clicking some flashy abilities that do nothing more than provoke a wipe.

 

If you don't understand basic respect and social rules you have no place in an MMO. That's why a damage meter is needed. There is no magical elitist bunch out to get you. Nobody will mess with anyone trying, doing their best and respecting other people's time but don't expect to be treated well if you don't treat others well ... or do you expect that because you pay your sub? You don't pay it to me m8.

Edited December 28, 2011 by dakalro

[DevonDs]

If you're not raiding, then you really shouldn't care about dps meters at all because whatever you do isn't going to be hindered by them. If you are raiding, and you don't care about them, then you're more likely to be a liability on the group then an asset.

 

Or and here is an idea, have a game that doesn't have meters and set the level of difficulty in the game to the reality that it doesn't have meters or add-ons or extra macros or a place where you can us real cash to buy better gear or (insert edge need here). If you need Damage Meters and other add ons to raid then raiding could be redesigned.

 

Design a game that doesn't need them, create a game that is interesting and compelling without the need for damage meters and market that game to people that either don't care or don't want damage meters and other addons....and allow those that want a damage meter driven game to enjoy damage meter addon driven games.

 

This game is great without all the "get and edge" tools and from what I have heard from most poeple as a general rule this game is not too hard to play without the doodads.

 

I appreciate your response and realize that this is an archetypal divide, like sandbox vs. themepark.

Edited December 28, 2011 by DevonDs

[DevonDs]

I would rather they focused on content for everyone rather than digital viagra for a few.

 

 

Evocatively and well said.

Edited December 28, 2011 by DevonDs

[Zurriel]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12/24/star-wars-the-old-republic-to-receive-combat-log-parsing-other/

 

The game will get combat logs. It is inevitable that the game will then get damage meters. If you can log combat before mods are supported, someone will make an external DPS meter. Of course the game's developers would want you to be able to analyze your character.

 

When people complain about the WoW community and how it's full of people who freak out about everything, I will point to this thread and claim it's the whole internet.

[salihe]

Seems to me the only people freaking out and against putting damage meters in game are the ones who don't feel like having their performance scrutinized to make sure they're pulling their own weight in a multiplayer instance. They prefer nobody knows what anybody's doing, so the fail people, if any, can coast along and get carried by the rest of the group. I'm sure those same people who didn't pull their weight the entire way will expect just as much, if not more rewards than the fellow who busted his *** picking up the slack.

 

I don't deal well with undeserving senses of entitlement. If I'm in a raid, and someone isn't cutting it, I give them some tips on how to improve. If they still don't, they're gone. It's simple logic. Why should the rest of the group have to pull extra weight because one or two people can't pull their own? This attitude of, "Oh, everyone deserves a medal just for being there" has got to go.

 

DPS meters let everyone see who's pulling their weight, and who's just there getting a free ride. Like in Jonestown, if you don't work, you don't eat, but there has to be a way to see who's working or not. Especially in high tier raiding, meters will be damn near required. If a guild wants to only bring their highest dps players to an end-game raid, there first needs to be a way to see who those people are.

 

It's not about being elitist (though I don't see why that's such a horrible thing; it seems the only ones who complain endlessly about elitism are the ones who aren't); it's about being fair to the entire group.

 

Edit: Oh, and I'm taking for granted that the above hypothetical group is smart and knows that someone who spends a fight CC'ing is, by necessity, going to have super low DPS. I would think that much should b obvious.

Edited December 28, 2011 by salihe

[Beastfury]

 

Some news, it's not elitists kicking low dps people, it's people slightly less bad than the bad getting kicked. In WoW I literally have no kick timer because I never votekick, I have enough dps so that I can simply make up for the 2 others, I have enough dps and gear and control as a tank that I make up for at least 1 dps and as healer there isn't that much to heal that I oom. I simply facepalm, abuse the people, over vent, have some laughs and endure.

 

But make no mistake, I endure, it feels exactly like the random idiot at work that makes you cringe every day when they fail the most basic task and never seem to get it, and sometimes worse, they show no interest. But I can't fire them. Well, a group kick is that option many of us want at work, get rid of the guy that is useless. I wish they implemented in in real life, without the hassle of having the boss protect them.

 

While I don't expect people to treat MMOs like a job this is not farmville, this is not single player.

 

I expect other to show me a modicum of respect for the time I put in, for the fact that it's not only their time being used, for the fact that they don't play along 3 AIs with no feelings, emotions, patience and without infinite time.

 

Contrary to popular opinion being a hardcore elitist doesn't require a basement, no job and 24/7 on the computer. I have a bloody mortgage to pay and between a job and finishing up a night of heroic DS wiping I would like to not be insulted by most of the players I group with because they believe they are not required to do anything above 1 button press and clicking some flashy abilities that do nothing more than provoke a wipe.

 

If you don't understand basic respect and social rules you have no place in an MMO. That's why a damage meter is needed. There is no magical elitist bunch out to get you. Nobody will mess with anyone trying, doing their best and respecting other people's time but don't expect to be treated well if you don't treat others well ... or do you expect that because you pay your sub? You don't pay it to me m8.

 

That was well written.

[Zaskaszh]

No. This game is extremely easy. There's no content that justifies scrutinizing someone's "contribution". Four troopers can handle most flashpoints just as easily as a Gunslinger, Sage and two troopers. There's no "optimal" anything in this. It's just..not..that...hard.

[Zaskaszh]

Why would people object to this? If you object you're clearly someone who intends to afk in group combat and not pull your weight.

 

I played EQ for 5 years, and EQ is far more "hardcore" than WoW ever was. I don't remember ever seeing anyone, ever, go AFK in a group during fights. Ever. We didn't need damage meters to tell, either.

[Dirtybomb]

OMG I LOVE THIS GUY (and no thats not sarcasm) You guys are taking a hardcore approach at a game that isnt designed for hardcore mmo gamers

 

They wouldn't have added nightmare modes unless they were thinking about hardcores.

[Swirly]

How about if stuff dies we did good and if we die we try again? If you are so insecure about your abilities to play a game why do you play at all? People don't feel special in real life so they need a meter to tell them they are.

 

How did I ever play FFXI / Lineage 2 / WoW without these meters and down content. It amazes me because I wasn't able to parse my data for 2 days straight yet stuff died! Amazing, truly!

 

Edit: A stroke of genius! Why don't we email Bio and tell them to add meters to ME3 that way we'll know our clone Shepard is the super and petition to remove femshep cause guys playing chicks bothers people, just read these forums!

 

WoW I can rant on about useless crap too, thanks OP.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Swirly

[tylerd]

Everyone saying "Go back to WoW." The reason you don't want a meter is because you are the ****** heals / dps in WoW that got kicked from groups because you stink like bad fish. For the rest of us we want to know how good we are doing and where we can improve.

[Swirly]

Everyone saying "Go back to WoW." The reason you don't want a meter is because you are the ****** heals / dps in WoW that got kicked from groups because you stink like bad fish. For the rest of us we want to know how good we are doing and where we can improve.

 

^ special needs.

[Sandros]

Might as well bring back gear score too huh? No thanks.

[Enginer]

I want a working API now! With every boss in EV and Hutta having an enrage timer meters are going to be needed.

[Demonix]

No, just no.

[Esaru]

Spoken like true casuals that will never enjoy bleeding edge content.

 

Spoken like a true elitist that thinks they're better than others because they use a DPS meter.

[Eboo-Kauri]

My personal damage meter:

 

1) I hit stuff

2)

A) it dies

B) I die

 

If 2-A, damage good. If 2-B damage bad.

 

Done.

 

^^^this

[Zaskaszh]

Trust me 100% when I say that someone will be starting a thread like "Well, why can't we have Gearscore in SWTOR? How am I suposed to know iff I'm wasting my time inviting this guy? If I don't know how he's geared, he may make end up making us wipe and wasting everyone's time!!" very very soon.

[Zaskaszh]

^^^this

 

Yes, indeedy; if we fight a mob it and it dies, we did our jobs. If we fight a mob and we all die, we ALL messed up. Not the guy who was hitting for 7 less damage than the other guy.

[Acesome]

No damage meters, sorry if you can't enjoy the content for the content.

 

Its funny, cause the lack of damage meters have greatly improved the grouping, rather than one person crying, then kicking then searching for another dps we've been sitting and figuring out strategies. Mostly this approach has been successful.

 

So no damage meters.

[tcander]

Spoken like a true elitist that thinks they're better than others because they use a DPS meter.

 

 

The difference between the two: one has proof, the other is blind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zhiru]

Might as well bring back gear score too huh? No thanks.

 

I hate to break the news to you, but BioWare has already screwed you on this one. You might want to look at your character profile and read the things that it has there. You will notice something called rating on (almost) all your gear. Starwars gear score is simply adding all your ratings up into one total. Not there is any content yet that needs it, but it is there for the future.

[Durt]

No damage meters, sorry if you can't enjoy the content for the content.

 

Its funny, cause the lack of damage meters have greatly improved the grouping, rather than one person crying, then kicking then searching for another dps we've been sitting and figuring out strategies. Mostly this approach has been successful.

 

So no damage meters.

 

While damage meters may be irrelevant for leveling and FP and heroic quest purposes, in raids as we progress there is no doubt that you will want to know who is pulling their weight, or how to improve your character, etc, etc.

[DaxRendar]

I used to be against no combat log recount ect but I have changed my mind.

 

While i pretty much agree with having a good combat log to see what's going on with your group/raid, I now think the benefits of not having a combat log outweigh the good of having it.

 

No combat log and recount allows for much more freedom in class/spec selection. players can basically do the specs they think are fun and not be pigeon holed into respecing after every big patch to whatever the number crunchers show is top dmg.

 

Just look at the 4 DPS classes in WoW, 3 DPS talent trees, You don't let a frost mage or sub rogue in your raid, because of recount everyone knows the other specs are 5-10% better dmg, but that basically removes those specs from the PVE game.

 

I would never let a frost mage in a raid,because everyone knows the other specs are better, so everyone avoids frost mage DPS.

 

In reality 5-10% dmg difference shouldnt make or break your raid, but you still don't want a frost mage in your raid, you automatically think there is something wrong with the player for trying to be frost in PVE.

 

So to sum up: no recount and combat logs allows for much more freedom to choose the funnest playstyle.

 

There is a work around, you are just going to have to find smart players to group with who are competent and can play their class correctly. It will be more time consuming without recount, but it is still possible to find good players without it.

This +1(,000)

 

Even moreso when you take into account how few people actually know how to analyze CC/Interrupts, Buff effectiveness, proper target at proper time, staying out of fire, and just the random fluctuations that can affect performance like a caster DPS being targeted by a ground effect 3 times in a row.

 

Meters reduce (if not eliminate) any feeling of teamwork as everybody's too busy looking at their personal numbers to enjoy the group accomplishments. If a game is designed and balanced around them *not* being present, it can still be a fun and challenging experience for all involved.

 

It's kind of a moot point though. Combat logs will be back in soon which will allow the hardcore raiders to parse their results, but I sincerely hope that Meters never show up in the game, or if they do they are only visible in Hard or Nightmare Mode Operations - they shouldn't be needed at all for Normal Mode or Flashpoints.

[Barieta]

My dps isn't an issue, and depending on what the fotm was at any particular time, I topped the dps meters and always tried to (if I was playing dps). So if meters are incorporated into the game I won't freak and will probably even use them and won't threaten to quit the game or anything like that.

 

The main argument i keep seeing that is pro meter is that the tools don't cause bad things, it's the people using them the wrong way that cause all the problems. While this is completely true. It is also true that if there is a way to misuse something people will do it. Just because they are bored or only because they are insecure and it makes them feel better to make others feel bad. It will happen

 

Not because they are bad people, it's just human nature to use and abuse tools. I just don't see how adding one that is known to be misused will improve the community or the game.