Damage Meters

[jibboo]

I know, I know, I’m beating a dead horse, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

This game would benefit from a tool that can measure the effectiveness of the DPS classes.

 

I know that the opponents of damage meters will argue that damage meters ruined such games as WoW because players were scrutinized on their performance in instances/raids. The players that weren’t living up to the standards of others were belittled and because of this the fun was drained from the game.

 

Is this not true with most games though? If you’re not performing at a certain expected level of skill or competence, the game will turn on you, you will fail and the game will cease to be fun.

 

On the other side of the coin, if you perform at, or above the expected level of skill or competence, the game will reward you for your efforts and you will have a positive experience.

 

The trick with MMOs is that we have to rely on not only our own level of skill and competence, but the level of skill and competence of other players. For the most part, it’s pretty easy to tell if a tank or healer is doing their job effectively, but without damage meters it can be tricky to tell whether or not a DPSer is doing their job.

 

For any given boss fight:

 

Did the boss die fast enough or did it die slower than it should have? Were the two DPS classes on par with each other, or was one carrying the load? Perhaps the tank was doing the most DPS. If the tank was doing more DPS than the DPS classes, is it safe to say that the DPS classes were not fulfilling their role? Should it matter as long as the group makes it through the instance?

 

The last question is what the folks against damage meters seem to focus on: “Hey, we made it through the instance. That was the goal right? We weren’t trying to break any speed records after all…” and I agree with that, however I feel that the people who enjoy spending 3 hours in an instance that should’ve taken 45 minutes to complete would be in the minority.

 

With damage meters a group can pinpoint the issues that led to the slow run (and possible wipe as a result of not killing a boss fast enough) and make adjustments accordingly. For instance, when this theoretical group reviews the damage meters they see the following:

 

Sniper (DPS) – 76%

Juggernaut (Tank) – 15%

Mercenary (DPS) – 9%

Sorcerers (Heals) – 0%

 

 

 

Of course this is an extreme case, but there’s obviously a glaring issue with that mercenary’s DPS. Since the group has a damage meter to see this, they can quickly assess the situation and work with the mercenary to make sure he has the right gear equipped, the correct talent spec for his role and is using the most effective attacks to improve his DPS. Without a damage meter it would’ve taken much longer to try and figure out whether the sniper or the mercenary, or both, were the issue.

 

Of course this would not be a typical scenario. In a typical scenario, especially in a PUG, this would’ve ended quite badly for the mercenary and he would’ve probably received a “Your DPS sucks! G-T-F-O n00b!” response.

 

So, this poor merc has a few options at this point. He can either:

 

A. Feel completely hurt and leave the game forever

B. Say “Whatever, I’ll do what I want!” and join another group, ruining 3 other gamers’ experience

C. Say “Man, I’m obviously doing something wrong” and go do a little research on his class to find out how he can be better at it

 

If he chooses option “A” I’m sorry to say it, but maybe MMOs aren’t for him. MMOs are the internet, and like it or not, if you’re having social interactions with strangers on the internet, you’re gonna need thick skin. Also, kids are cruel, and there are a lot of them playing MMOs.

 

If he chooses option “B” he’s just being outright selfish and he deserves the negative comments he’ll get from groups.

 

If he chooses option “C” not only will he have a more positive experience within groups, but the other 3 people will also have a more positive experience.

 

I think it’s safe to say that everyone wants to have a positive experience when they enter an instance. The best way to ensure that everyone does have a positive experience is to make sure that everyone is performing the role that they were asked into group to do, and for the DPS classes, this means having a way to measure the damage they do.

[ihateyouall]

Game doesn't even have combat logs yet. Gonna take a long time before your request is even considered.

[Lamuse]

To the OP

 

NO

[Diefenbaker]

My personal damage meter:

 

1) I hit stuff

2)

A) it dies

B) I die

 

If 2-A, damage good. If 2-B damage bad.

 

Done.

[jibboo]

Game doesn't even have combat logs yet. Gonna take a long time before your request is even considered.

 

True.

 

To the OP

 

NO

 

Any particular reason why?

[Bansheedragon]

Go back to wow if you want damage meters.

[jibboo]

Squeak...

[Chanamel]

/Signed.

 

I'd like to see my healing breakdown like I used to view during/after WoW raids. A lot of good information in meters.

 

Beyond that, people who carry their own weight have every right to desire a tool that gives them a means of grouping with people who aren't useless.

[revolana]

No need for DPS meters at all. Spec your character the way you want to and enjoy the game. You dont need to worry about having the top dps in the game, group etc. Just enjoy a game the way its made. If you want to know how you fare dps wise, try different builds and see what kills faster. Enjoy the game by playing how you enjoy it. No need in making a job of it to keep the top build.

[Chanamel]

My personal damage meter:

 

1) I hit stuff

2)

A) it dies

B) I die

 

If 2-A, damage good. If 2-B damage bad.

 

Done.

 

Your meter is broken.

[ryancwn]

/Signed.

 

I'd like to see my healing breakdown like I used to view during/after WoW raids. A lot of good information in meters.

 

Beyond that, people who carry their own weight have every right to desire a tool that gives them a means of grouping with people who aren't useless.

 

If they implement a damage meter and combat log (which can be parsed). I hope it only shows heal and damage done by you and the mobs instead.

[Cias]

there was a recent Q&A with one of the devs and some gaming website, the dev got asked this question and basically stated combat logs and a way to read them easily will be added eventually.

 

Will be staying far away from the forums when that day comes from all the anti meter qqing, gonna be funny

[Maellek]

The game needs combat log, dps meter, and threat meter. Opponents of these are baddies afraid of having their lack of skills exposed.

 

Without dps meters it is extremely difficult to weed the good players from the mediocre and it also helps us get underpowered/overpowered classes fixed.

[NoxiousAlby]

I know, I know, I’m beating a dead horse, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

I thought it was the squeaky wheel makes the most noise?

 

damage meters...meh, been doing fine without them so far.

Edited December 28, 2011 by NoxiousAlby

[Buur]

I thought it was the squeaky wheel makes the most noise?

 

damage meters...meh, been doing fine without them so far.

 

How goes those hard mode operations?

[jibboo]

there was a recent Q&A with one of the devs and some gaming website, the dev got asked this question and basically stated combat logs and a way to read them easily will be added eventually.

 

Will be staying far away from the forums when that day comes from all the anti meter qqing, gonna be funny

 

Good to know

[Minisys]

Even though there is no combat logs yet. Don't really see the need for them in game. As long your targets die thats the man goal. Damage meters will lead people to say something like "hey look I done 55% of the damage". In my book if you are in a party/raid who cares who does the most damage. As long you can complete your goal it should not matter.

 

We need other things in game long be for anything like macro's and ect. Good sample would be a way to tell when in the last time a guild member logged in. Also fix the UI where sometimes it bugs out and not show all guild members online.

[exphryl]

/Signed.

 

I'd like to see my healing breakdown like I used to view during/after WoW raids. A lot of good information in meters.

 

Beyond that, people who carry their own weight have every right to desire a tool that gives them a means of grouping with people who aren't useless.

 

Healing Meters were the WORST thing to look at. If you did you were probably a bad healer.

 

AOE Healers : Top Healing Meters

Tank Healers: Do not top Healing Meters.

 

Did people die? No. You healed fine.

 

Damage meters DO have value in the event of an enrage mechanic, it's good to know where the slack it. Healing meters are pretty useless though other then to say "LOL I HEALED A BAZILLION"

[jibboo]

Even though there is no combat logs yet. Don't really see the need for them in game. As long your targets die thats the man goal. Damage meters will lead people to say something like "hey look I done 55% of the damage". In my book if you are in a party/raid who cares who does the most damage. As long you can complete your goal it should not matter.

 

We need other things in game long be for anything like macro's and ect. Good sample would be a way to tell when in the last time a guild member logged in. Also fix the UI where sometimes it bugs out and not show all guild members online.

 

 

 

I'll agree that there are other things that have a higher priority than this.

[Khoranth]

I used to be against no combat log recount ect but I have changed my mind.

 

While i pretty much agree with having a good combat log to see what's going on with your group/raid, I now think the benefits of not having a combat log outweigh the good of having it.

 

No combat log and recount allows for much more freedom in class/spec selection. players can basically do the specs they think are fun and not be pigeon holed into respecing after every big patch to whatever the number crunchers show is top dmg.

 

Just look at the 4 DPS classes in WoW, 3 DPS talent trees, You don't let a frost mage or sub rogue in your raid, because of recount everyone knows the other specs are 5-10% better dmg, but that basically removes those specs from the PVE game.

 

I would never let a frost mage in a raid,because everyone knows the other specs are better, so everyone avoids frost mage DPS.

 

In reality 5-10% dmg difference shouldnt make or break your raid, but you still don't want a frost mage in your raid, you automatically think there is something wrong with the player for trying to be frost in PVE.

 

So to sum up: no recount and combat logs allows for much more freedom to choose the funnest playstyle.

 

There is a work around, you are just going to have to find smart players to group with who are competent and can play their class correctly. It will be more time consuming without recount, but it is still possible to find good players without it.

[dRunKgOosE]

Agree with OP 100%.

[Dietpizza]

I want one too The people who don't want one are most likely bads and the last thing bioware needs to do is cater to bads. That's what WoW is doing and they've been losing a lot of subscribers.

[Maellek]

In my book if you are in a party/raid who cares who does the most damage. As long you can complete your goal it should not matter.

 

Then if you can't complete your goal because you can't kill things fast enough(i.e. your dps is too low), how will you know who to replace w/o a damage meter?

[Phadian_gess]

No need for DPS meters at all. Spec your character the way you want to and enjoy the game. You dont need to worry about having the top dps in the game, group etc. Just enjoy a game the way its made. If you want to know how you fare dps wise, try different builds and see what kills faster. Enjoy the game by playing how you enjoy it. No need in making a job of it to keep the top build.

 

OMG I LOVE THIS GUY (and no thats not sarcasm) You guys are taking a hardcore approach at a game that isnt designed for hardcore mmo gamers

[Kemosobe]

Just so you know, the only thing I really read was the title of the thread and the first sentence and I already say no. There is no need for a tool that tells you how much DPS you are doing seeing as topping the DPS charts is not important at all to any game.