PvE CC is ridiculous

[Warlocc]

Playing as a melee tank, I'm getting more and more frustrated with the CC in this game- entirely PvE.

 

Any time I'm in a group with more than one Strong, I can expect to be stunned, knocked down, and/or bounced back and forth repeatedly, with no way to interrupt it or stop it from happening.

 

The few that ARE interruptible get cast again long before my interrupts are off their cooldowns.

 

Worse, the knockbacks all too often put me too close to use Force Charge, but too far away to be able to use any melee abilities, and I have to walk back in slow motion because of the attached snare.

 

It's beyond frustrating to supposedly be a powerful force user, getting smacked around like a ping pong ball by some stupid trash mobs.

 

All of those nonsense abilities should be removed from NPCs, or PvE tanking should provide some immunities to it. It's out of control sometimes.

[Zerole]

There are many utility points that address this.

[Excise]

I agree with ya, OP. BW loves them some stuns.

[Joesixxpack]

BW doesn't care enough to do thoughtful or creative mechanics so they just make NPCs punt or stun you more. Edited January 11, 2016 by Joesixxpack

[branmakmuffin]

All of those nonsense abilities should be removed from NPCs, or PvE tanking should provide some immunities to it. It's out of control sometimes.

Yeah. the game is too hard to play. As a tank player as well, it would be great if all Strongs and less simply dropped dead the instant a tank character enters melee range with them.

[DisIzMe]

Yeah. the game is too hard to play. As a tank player as well, it would be great if all Strongs and less simply dropped dead the instant a tank character enters melee range with them.

 

Its not about hard. It is about - frustrating. And frustrating eventually = not fun.

This is one of the reasons there are relatively few tanks.

[Warlocc]

There are many utility points that address this.

 

4 seconds of immunity to only a couple types after Force Charge, sure. How about the other half dozen annoying CCs?

[Warlocc]

Yeah. the game is too hard to play. As a tank player as well, it would be great if all Strongs and less simply dropped dead the instant a tank character enters melee range with them.

 

Annoying =/= difficult. Getting bounced around before facerolling mobs isn't a challenge.

[branmakmuffin]

Annoying =/= difficult. Getting bounced around before facerolling mobs isn't a challenge.

No, but figuring out a way to deal with stuns/knockbacks/etc is part of the game. Positioning is a big part of tanking. Think of the jungle boss fight in Core Meltdown.

Edited January 11, 2016 by branmakmuffin

[Warlocc]

No, but figuring out a way to deal with stuns/knockbacks/etc is part of the game. Positioning is a big part of tanking. Think of the jungle boss fight in Core Meltdown.

 

Positioning is situational at best. Sometimes you can put your back to a wall or use LOS, but that's rare, and again only useful against some of the CCs.

 

I mean, there are entire fights designed around the idea that you have to stay in the center of a platform because the boss mechanic is to spam unavoidable knockbacks that will otherwise drop you to your death. If that were rare and unique it might be clever, but when every enemy in the game has some form of that, it's just overdone and annoying

Edited January 11, 2016 by Warlocc

[Myracarrah]

The mob stuns/knockback/etc is pretty terrible. Bioware has confused chain stunning with 'increased difficulty'. My advice (for what it's worth)

1) Use your defenses, some defenses give you immunity for a limited time if you spend the points in it.

2) Chain stun them back! Seriously they can't stun you if they are stun locked.

3) Set your companion to DPS and just watch the mobs fall over while you stand there doing that funky 'I've been electrocuted' dance.

 

The best solution is to use all three. Start the fight by chain stunning. Use your immunity once you are out of stuns. All while your DPS comp just eats their face. Rinse, repeat on next obnoxiously-terrible-noncasting-super-stunning group of mobs.

[Fyurii]

There are many utility points that address this.

 

This is true, and even as frustrating as all the PvE stuns are, they're nothing compared to the Geth in ME3 multiplayer. Kings of the "Stunlock-to-death".

Seriously, anyone who played against Geth in Gold or Platinum difficulty and didn't learn patience against this kind of thing either already knew it (probably experienced Dizzy & Knockdown combos from TK/Brawlers in SWG PVE pre-NGE) or needed to take a break and calm down.

 

Heck, we all get a guaranteed 1 ability on every class, and utility points to get a second ability with a much shorter cooldown to do similar to almost all knock down/knock back attacks as well.

 

Pretty sure Sage & Sorc can pop a channelled ability as a last ditch resort if needed too.

[Latherfal]

Go Vanguard.

 

You're a leaf on the wind....

[ForceWelder]

There are a few weekly heroics I just refuse to do.

 

Not because they are difficult (they aren't) but because I know with every single fight, I know I'm going to get stunned or choked by melee.

 

It gets a little ridiculous to have to kill 30 or so melee NPCs and you end up taking a stun with every fight. That's 30 stuns, choke holds, or knock backs in a fight that is about as challenging as washing your hair when you shower.

 

It is just annoying. Other than the initial stun, the gold mob isn't surviving long enough to ever get around to doing a second one. All that stun did was break my rotation. And then of course if you are facing two gold elites of the same type, they both do the same stun at the exact same time.

 

So to make an argument that a stun is enough to equal "difficult" is silly. That stun does nothing other than annoy me for breaking my rotation and allowing them to live an extra 4 seconds.

[branmakmuffin]

Positioning is situational at best. Sometimes you can put your back to a wall or use LOS, but that's rare, and again only useful against some of the CCs.

Perhaps you need more experience tanking.

[Skaara]

It sounds like it's time to visit dulfy and youtube so you can learn to play. My lord you guys are seriously over exaggerating. I can do every single heroic 2 on the weekly list and not get stunned once. Seriously, learn to play. Edited January 11, 2016 by Skaara

[Storm-Cutter]

the longer the mobs CC you, the longer you stay subbed.

- Okay so 3 seconds isn't much, but over multiple mobs, multiple planets, multiple users.....

 

Ever wondered why the corridors were so long, why there are areas you can't speeder through, or teleport from, or why you have to go to fleet, to start planet to fleet to ship to planet to ship to fleet in some stories.....?

 

MMO 101 : Timewasting = $$$$$

[SootyTX]

So to make an argument that a stun is enough to equal "difficult" is silly. That stun does nothing other than annoy me for breaking my rotation and allowing them to live an extra 4 seconds.

 

Then what would make it difficult? Serious question. And if anyone says add HP or increase damage I'm going to reach through the screen and strangle them, because neither of those are a fix. My tanks laugh at damage that would kill my dps, while my dps laugh at HP levels that make my tanks frustratingly slow.

 

Status effects are, while annoying, equal opportunity and to a great extent can be negated or reduced by good choices and play. I change my utility set up several times a day while running heroics in order to get the right ones for the mobs I'm going to face. Sometimes I'll get through effect heavy heroics with a lot of hassle, sometimes with virtually none, based on how well I'm playing.

 

Part of the problem is players simply not knowing which effects are stuns, which are movement impairments and so on. Knowing what range they can activate at is important (much easier when playing a Vanguard tank as you can stay at 8m or so and still be effective, while avoiding many status effects - the SFHM paladin is far less annoying as a van than a guardian), knowing which mob to attack first, triggering abilities before starting combat. The list is far more than 'CC break then I'm screwed'.

 

I know this sounds like l2p post, and to an extent it is. But the question at the top stands - how would you make things more difficult without simple hp/damage increases.

Edited January 11, 2016 by SootyTX

[ClayPeopleCry]

the longer the mobs CC you, the longer you stay subbed.

- Okay so 3 seconds isn't much, but over multiple mobs, multiple planets, multiple users.....

 

Ever wondered why the corridors were so long, why there are areas you can't speeder through, or teleport from, or why you have to go to fleet, to start planet to fleet to ship to planet to ship to fleet in some stories.....?

 

MMO 101 : Timewasting = $$$$$

 

^ Lol. Probably true.

[Frenesi]

Maybe my memory gets bad, but chain stunning? In PVE?

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

No, serioursly. Guardian complaining that he gets knocked back? Maybe you should try and use the utility you proclaim to bee "too short". Or even use your own stun, lol.

[Frenesi]

Then what would make it difficult? Serious question. And if anyone says add HP or increase damage I'm going to reach through the screen and strangle them, because neither of those are a fix. My tanks laugh at damage that would kill my dps, while my dps laugh at HP levels that make my tanks frustratingly slow.

 

Status effects are, while annoying, equal opportunity and to a great extent can be negated or reduced by good choices and play. I change my utility set up several times a day while running heroics in order to get the right ones for the mobs I'm going to face. Sometimes I'll get through effect heavy heroics with a lot of hassle, sometimes with virtually none, based on how well I'm playing.

 

Part of the problem is players simply not knowing which effects are stuns, which are movement impairments and so on. Knowing what range they can activate at is important (much easier when playing a Vanguard tank as you can stay at 8m or so and still be effective, while avoiding many status effects - the SFHM paladin is far less annoying as a van than a guardian), knowing which mob to attack first, triggering abilities before starting combat. The list is far more than 'CC break then I'm screwed'.

 

I know this sounds like l2p post, and to an extent it is. But the question at the top stands - how would you make things more difficult without simple hp/damage increases.

 

The universal answer is mechanics, but those could become really frustraiting in open-world, when repeated again and again on every pack of trash. Avoidable stun is actually simplified case of that, not too punishing, but definetely worth paying attention to.

 

Getting rid of companion autopilot could be another answer.

[MillionsKNives]

Then what would make it difficult? Serious question. And if anyone says add HP or increase damage I'm going to reach through the screen and strangle them, because neither of those are a fix. My tanks laugh at damage that would kill my dps, while my dps laugh at HP levels that make my tanks frustratingly slow.

 

Status effects are, while annoying, equal opportunity and to a great extent can be negated or reduced by good choices and play. I change my utility set up several times a day while running heroics in order to get the right ones for the mobs I'm going to face. Sometimes I'll get through effect heavy heroics with a lot of hassle, sometimes with virtually none, based on how well I'm playing.

 

Part of the problem is players simply not knowing which effects are stuns, which are movement impairments and so on. Knowing what range they can activate at is important (much easier when playing a Vanguard tank as you can stay at 8m or so and still be effective, while avoiding many status effects - the SFHM paladin is far less annoying as a van than a guardian), knowing which mob to attack first, triggering abilities before starting combat. The list is far more than 'CC break then I'm screwed'.

 

I know this sounds like l2p post, and to an extent it is. But the question at the top stands - how would you make things more difficult without simple hp/damage increases.

 

I think the big problem is prevalence more than existence. In a fight where just one of their abilities is a stun for example, and it has a high enough cooldown that you can (almost) always interrupt it isn't a bad design. Or maybe they just knock back occasionally. But there are some fights, like the talz on hoth where you will find a group of four and all four will do a minor knockback on their punches. So you are basically stun-locked for the first part of the fight while all four of them take turns punching you. Or there's the droids in the Torvix encounter in Black Hole, where there are groups with two droids and both of them have a push and a pull. So you start the fight and immediately you're pulled to one of the droids, then he does a knockback right after, then the other ones pulls you, and then knocks you back, rinse repeat. You can't interrupt it, you've got a stun on a 45s cooldown, a knockback on a 20s cooldown, and if you spec into it you can stop movement impairing stuff for about 10s on a 1m30s cooldown (rough examples and numbers). Or there's the champions in the heroic section of Oricon where almost all of them have a number of stun abilities and/or knockbacks. So you interrupt one, maybe stun him during the cast of the second, and then they just cast again immediately after the effect wears off, and then cast the second and third right after that. Or there's that one boss in Manaan where you spend the majority of your time in the second half of the fight just being repeatedly blown backwards by bombs.

 

It's not a big problem if it's occasional and can more or less be dealt with in a way where you don't lose much control of your character. The problem arises in that many of these annoying fights there's just little you can do. The best you can do is make an annoying fight slightly less annoying by blowing all of your control abilities.

[ForceWelder]

It sounds like it's time to visit dulfy and youtube so you can learn to play. My lord you guys are seriously over exaggerating. I can do every single heroic 2 on the weekly list and not get stunned once. Seriously, learn to play.

 

I think you are missing the point Skaara.

 

Can you CC the mobs so that they don't get to you and then use their stuns? Sure you can. But that just drags out the fight longer to. Because you either have to wait for your stun (and in some classes your mezz to go off cooldown) or you use your other CC to keep the distance.

 

But depending on the mob class, they can leap back on you as soon as you knock them off.

 

So either take the stun and stay out of the fight for 4 seconds. Or you use your CC, get off your rotation and still drag out the fight for about 4 seconds. Either way all those fights are going to play out the same way.

 

And it is just silly. Being a level 65 in +208 gear being down graded to a level where I'm still above the mob level for the heroic I'm running. Weak mobs still go down in one shot or from one AOE, silvers two - three shots, and your average gold is down between 3 - 5. The only reason the fight even took 10 seconds is because you get knocked down on your $#% for 4 seconds of it. And then to face the same fight dynamic 20, 30, 40 or more times it just gets old quick. It is not that it is difficult. It is just repetitive on content that shouldn't be repetitive.

 

It is like the Revan fight on Yavin 4. Where you spend 3/4 of the fight stunned, knockback, or otherwise emcompacitated. All you want to do is run through your rotation and kill crap but just as you are about to unload, you get taken out of the fight for a few seconds. Truth be told, a high level DPS companion could probably run the darn heroic for you.

[Skaara]

I think you are missing the point Skaara.

 

Can you CC the mobs so that they don't get to you and then use their stuns? Sure you can. But that just drags out the fight longer to. Because you either have to wait for your stun (and in some classes your mezz to go off cooldown) or you use your other CC to keep the distance.

 

But depending on the mob class, they can leap back on you as soon as you knock them off.

 

So either take the stun and stay out of the fight for 4 seconds. Or you use your CC, get off your rotation and still drag out the fight for about 4 seconds. Either way all those fights are going to play out the same way.

 

And it is just silly. Being a level 65 in +208 gear being down graded to a level where I'm still above the mob level for the heroic I'm running. Weak mobs still go down in one shot or from one AOE, silvers two - three shots, and your average gold is down between 3 - 5. The only reason the fight even took 10 seconds is because you get knocked down on your $#% for 4 seconds of it. And then to face the same fight dynamic 20, 30, 40 or more times it just gets old quick. It is not that it is difficult. It is just repetitive on content that shouldn't be repetitive.

 

It is like the Revan fight on Yavin 4. Where you spend 3/4 of the fight stunned, knockback, or otherwise emcompacitated. All you want to do is run through your rotation and kill crap but just as you are about to unload, you get taken out of the fight for a few seconds. Truth be told, a high level DPS companion could probably run the darn heroic for you.

 

All part of learning to play. Stuns are part of play so if you don't want to deal with them you will realize that you have abilities to deal with stuns for a reason. So you want to remove mechanics that teach people things like interrupts and crowd control all so they don't know what to do once they reach real group content and then hit a brick wall face first. Just because people are lazy doesn't mean the game should be dumb downed to the lowest common denominator.

 

Oh noez, I had to stop my rotation for 2 seconds and lost like 200 dps. Oh the horror.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Skaara

[SootyTX]

The universal answer is mechanics, but those could become really frustraiting in open-world, when repeated again and again on every pack of trash. Avoidable stun is actually simplified case of that, not too punishing, but definetely worth paying attention to.

 

Getting rid of companion autopilot could be another answer.

 

Agreed, I posted something to the same effect a couple of weeks ago in the previous version of this thread. TUXe made a good comment about adding in something (like a QTE) to break longer effects faster, I'm imagining something like the Saints Row games, which would be a good middle ground. I do know that how easily or not I run through those heroics is a good indication of how well I'mm playing that day though, lol.