PvE CC is ridiculous

[Warlocc]

these are all counter able and u want 100% perfect combat conditions all the time!?

cause here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=864749 you guys are pleading for the game to be harder

then you guys make threads like this saying the games challenging and annoying like LMAO

 

 

through all of it i feel bad for BW Dev's they get to read this dribble all day - they prolly do it on lunch for a laugh xD

 

Exclamation: Cannot Compute Meatbag Desires!

 

I do want a challenge. Being stunlocked while my companion plays the game for me isn't it.

[Savej]

these are all counter able and u want 100% perfect combat conditions all the time!?

cause here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=864749 you guys are pleading for the game to be harder

then you guys make threads like this saying the games challenging and annoying like LMAO

...

!

 

You and Bran are just strawmanning this. Quote someone saying anything like "game's challenging or too hard"? Why are you posting other than to irritate?

[Dawnscar]

You and Bran are just strawmanning this. Quote someone saying anything like "game's challenging or too hard"? Why are you posting other than to irritate?

 

cause i feel this is an absurd thread someone made cause the game was down and they were p-ed off cause they kept getting knock'd back - the real question is is there a problem or do you guys want to make one cause its not how youd make the combat?

there were other points made but all u saw was the link - not my fault sorry - for those who decided to read though it made valid points.

 

Agreed there are MANY utility points for tanks to address knockbacks in fact my sniper has 1 as well

that being said if ur a melee class you have counter moves just as a roll or jump or teleport back - its supposed to make combat more engaging than standing there hitting 5.3.6.4.5.1.5 constantly but instead have to react and feel like a jedi/sith jumping into the fray!

 

yes it can get annoying but be smart there are ways around being a rag doll if u know what mobs do it (cause it is certain ones) pop ur knockback blocker on or theres even a jugg utility that when u leap u cant be pushed or when u pull as SA they cant push u....

 

be smart before you complain - cause all it comes off as is /ragequit in PvE

these are all counter able and u want 100% perfect combat conditions all the time!?

cause here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=864749 you guys are pleading for the game to be harder

then you guys make threads like this saying the games challenging and annoying like LMAO

 

 

through all of it i feel bad for BW Dev's they get to read this dribble all day - they prolly do it on lunch for a laugh xD

 

Exclamation: Cannot Compute Meatbag Desires!

 

there you go since you decided to take my entire post out of context and read one line for your use heres the entire thing for you to try and read again

Edited January 12, 2016 by Dawnscar

[ShawDou]

there you go since you decided to take my entire post out of context and read one line for your use heres the entire thing for you to try and read again

 

Yes he took just one part of post, when you say WE are complaining that game is easy. Combining two different threads together. As i said before we dont complain it is hard, just anoying. Btw still waiting (read my prev post) how you can counter instant stuns, pulls and pushes form group of mobs you fight, when you have no idea when they will use them.

[Savej]

cause i feel this is an absurd thread someone made cause the game was down and they were p-ed off cause they kept getting knock'd back - the real question is is there a problem or do you guys want to make one cause its not how youd make the combat?

there were other points made but all u saw was the link - not my fault sorry - for those who decided to read though it made valid points.

 

 

 

there you go since you decided to take my entire post out of context and read one line for your use heres the entire thing for you to try and read again

 

This thread started well before the servers went down.... Your list does not address the complaints that you obviously didn't bother to read through. The post I quoted was not "out of context"; you were misrepresenting whoever you think you're responding to. You're exactly one of the reasons these boards have a very bad reputation.

 

And for the record, pve cc has not always been the way it is now in this game and it is arguably getting worse in some cases. If it was removed or greatly reduced from many encounters they would not change significantly in terms of challenge or difficulty or player engagement, they would simply be less annoying. Without threads like these BW might not know they should dial it back.

[DarthSpuds]

BW doesn't care enough to do thoughtful or creative mechanics so they just make NPCs punt or stun you more.

 

^ This.

 

Apparently it make for challenging content.

 

I question that because I can go AFK on an Exarch fight and come back with freshly made coffee and still be at 80% health.

 

The challenge seems to be overcoming the boredom.

 

All The Best

[Dawnscar]

This thread started well before the servers went down.... Your list does not address the complaints that you obviously didn't bother to read through. The post I quoted was not "out of context"; you were misrepresenting whoever you think you're responding to. You're exactly one of the reasons these boards have a very bad reputation.

 

And for the record, pve cc has not always been the way it is now in this game and it is arguably getting worse in some cases. If it was removed or greatly reduced from many encounters they would not change significantly in terms of challenge or difficulty or player engagement, they would simply be less annoying. Without threads like these BW might not know they should dial it back.

 

take it how you want then but the feeling of "this is what gives the boards a bad rep" is mutual dude i feel you being completely whiney and childish and as for the chick asking how do we counter what we dont know easy - utility points a deal with it till u know which mobs do it remember in terms of rude u started it - oh and yes "WE" means the community as it ALWAYS HAS

 

The fact is there are like 700+ threards about how the game is too easy or too challenging or too annoying when it comes down to it Bioware dont care anymore they are doing what they feel is right and hey guess what they are still receiving your money so i guess they're doing fine cause you keep paying like me.

 

so guess we go back to the old point "Dont like it dont play it but dont sit here and say you hate it when your playing it out of choice"

Edited January 12, 2016 by Dawnscar

[Raphael_diSanto]

Annoying =/= difficult. Getting bounced around before facerolling mobs isn't a challenge.

 

This. The stuns and knockbacks don't change the outcome of the fight. I still win. They just make the fights more annoying.

[Myracarrah]

Okay let me give examples of the stuns mobs are currently using.

 

Dromund Kaas H2s - setting the explosives on the drill. Boss spawns (Taskmaster?) He has a long cast knockback which leaves you laying on the ground. Interrupt is not working on it. He stops casting but still knocks you back. You lay there for all of two seconds. Get up. Smash his face. And click your reward. You still win. But interrupt is not stopping him from using his stun. So why bother using the mechanic to STOP him if you know... it doesn't work? This particular Boss mob is not teaching anyone about managing game damage and stunlocks. It's just teaching you to lay there for 2 seconds while your Scorpio on Ranged DPS finishes him off before you can stand.

 

Also a DK H2 - Killing Demolitionist to blow up Shuttles. They stun you. They do not have a cast bar for their Instant Stun. So you can use your immunity and wait for the cool down before moving on to the next group. Or you can set your Pierce to DPS and he will stand out of the stun radius and win for you. Or send your Senya in to eat the stun for you. Teaching players... nothing about managing damage or stun locks.

 

The stun/CC mechanics the mobs are currently using isn't adding difficulty. It's adding annoyance. And if you just want the mobs to fall over while you do your 'I'm stunned!' stutter dance (please BioWare add that to the emotes on Cartel Market) you just pick a ranged comp to play with.

 

You can test those fights yourselves. Those fights might go down differently for you than for my Marauder. But those were two examples off the top of my head.

[branmakmuffin]

This. The stuns and knockbacks don't change the outcome of the fight. I still win. They just make the fights more annoying.

Until AI gets smarter, it's not going to change. So deal with it or move on the stun-free MMO.

[Myracarrah]

Until AI gets smarter, it's not going to change. So deal with it or move on the stun-free MMO.

 

Or people can foolishly hope that Bioware sees the ridiculousness of this particular complaint and make it so your global immunity cool-downs and break outs are reduced (pushing buttons makes players feel like they did something). Or make it so that stun mechanics have a cast bar to either give you time to interrupt or mitigate.

 

Let's face it. Chain stunning the mobs first, then using your immunity, then waiting on cool-downs before going to the next group of mobs takes longer than just standing there eating the stuns.

[SootyTX]

Okay let me give examples of the stuns mobs are currently using.

 

Dromund Kaas H2s - setting the explosives on the drill. Boss spawns (Taskmaster?) He has a long cast knockback which leaves you laying on the ground. Interrupt is not working on it. He stops casting but still knocks you back. You lay there for all of two seconds. Get up. Smash his face. And click your reward. You still win. But interrupt is not stopping him from using his stun. So why bother using the mechanic to STOP him if you know... it doesn't work? This particular Boss mob is not teaching anyone about managing game damage and stunlocks. It's just teaching you to lay there for 2 seconds while your Scorpio on Ranged DPS finishes him off before you can stand.

 

Also a DK H2 - Killing Demolitionist to blow up Shuttles. They stun you. They do not have a cast bar for their Instant Stun. So you can use your immunity and wait for the cool down before moving on to the next group. Or you can set your Pierce to DPS and he will stand out of the stun radius and win for you. Or send your Senya in to eat the stun for you. Teaching players... nothing about managing damage or stun locks.

 

The stun/CC mechanics the mobs are currently using isn't adding difficulty. It's adding annoyance. And if you just want the mobs to fall over while you do your 'I'm stunned!' stutter dance (please BioWare add that to the emotes on Cartel Market) you just pick a ranged comp to play with.

 

You can test those fights yourselves. Those fights might go down differently for you than for my Marauder. But those were two examples off the top of my head.

 

On my SW (whatever the equivalent of Vigilence is for discipline) - I do these every week for alliance crates, it just takes a little practice

 

Taskmaster - sounds like a latency issue, he's never been able to knock me back after an interrupt. Also, between, choke & push and some easy timing on the initial attacks most of the time he barely gets an attack off.

 

Demolitionist - will stun you if you mess up timing but otherwise entirely able to be handled without being stunned. Again, choke or push at the right time in their rotation (easy to figure out after a couple of fights with them).

 

Almost all these so-called chain-stunning groups or individuals are able to be beaten with few if any of their effects going off, IF you learn the mobs, their ability rotations, and know your own class well, and play to its strengths. If people can't be bothered to learn what the mobs do and only play reactively, then yes they are going to have a harder time.

[Myracarrah]

On my SW (whatever the equivalent of Vigilence is for discipline) - I do these every week for alliance crates, it just takes a little practice

 

Taskmaster - sounds like a latency issue, he's never been able to knock me back after an interrupt. Also, between, choke & push and some easy timing on the initial attacks most of the time he barely gets an attack off.

 

Demolitionist - will stun you if you mess up timing but otherwise entirely able to be handled without being stunned. Again, choke or push at the right time in their rotation (easy to figure out after a couple of fights with them).

 

Almost all these so-called chain-stunning groups or individuals are able to be beaten with few if any of their effects going off, IF you learn the mobs, their ability rotations, and know your own class well, and play to its strengths. If people can't be bothered to learn what the mobs do and only play reactively, then yes they are going to have a harder time.

 

It might very well be my ancient laptop causing the issue with Taskmaster. However I use my interrupt. His cast bar stops (normally before it's even moved down 25% of it's countdown) and he still knocks back. It's obnoxious.

 

Demolitionist now those are a different issue than Taskmaster. You can stun them. You can force choke them. You can mara jump! on them. You can break out of the stun. But there is no cast bar for their stun. It's instant. I run those multiple times a week. Yes you can learn and watch and mitigate the Demo's rotation, which you are most likely to be able to do if you don't have your companion out (I don't run companions if I can help it) and hopefully you don't lag or the animations of the mob attacks all actually go off.

 

As I posted earlier on the thread, there are pretty much three ways to deal with mob CC/Stun. Mitigate it. Stun the mob. Or just eat the stun and let your companion win.

 

It's not an issue of it can't be handled, it's every strong or higher using their CC/stun on you. You end up going through your skills and waiting on cool downs. Or standing there eating the stuns. Someone else mentioned that it appears to be Bioware's way of getting us to play a few more minutes.

 

It is to my mind a tired and overused mechanic that Bioware has mistaken for difficulty. I would prefer to see something along the lines of

 

Healing mobs use Bubbles or Heals.

Ranged DPS use CCs.

Melee DPS uses some form of burst damage (or debuff)

Tank mobs actually taunt you to hit them.

 

What we have now is

Healing mobs use CC/stun

Ranged DPS use CC/stun

Melee DPS use CC/stun

Tank mobs use CC/stun

 

It is not currently a good learning mechanic as many (not all but many) players will just let their Companion eat the mob and move on.

[SootyTX]

It might very well be my ancient laptop causing the issue with Taskmaster. However I use my interrupt. His cast bar stops (normally before it's even moved down 25% of it's countdown) and he still knocks back. It's obnoxious.

 

Demolitionist now those are a different issue than Taskmaster. You can stun them. You can force choke them. You can mara jump! on them. You can break out of the stun. But there is no cast bar for their stun. It's instant. I run those multiple times a week. Yes you can learn and watch and mitigate the Demo's rotation, which you are most likely to be able to do if you don't have your companion out (I don't run companions if I can help it) and hopefully you don't lag or the animations of the mob attacks all actually go off.

 

As I posted earlier on the thread, there are pretty much three ways to deal with mob CC/Stun. Mitigate it. Stun the mob. Or just eat the stun and let your companion win.

 

It's not an issue of it can't be handled, it's every strong or higher using their CC/stun on you. You end up going through your skills and waiting on cool downs. Or standing there eating the stuns. Someone else mentioned that it appears to be Bioware's way of getting us to play a few more minutes.

 

It is to my mind a tired and overused mechanic that Bioware has mistaken for difficulty. I would prefer to see something along the lines of

 

Healing mobs use Bubbles or Heals.

Ranged DPS use CCs.

Melee DPS uses some form of burst damage (or debuff)

Tank mobs actually taunt you to hit them.

 

What we have now is

Healing mobs use CC/stun

Ranged DPS use CC/stun

Melee DPS use CC/stun

Tank mobs use CC/stun

 

It is not currently a good learning mechanic as many (not all but many) players will just let their Companion eat the mob and move on.

 

I'm not going to be antagonistic (or I'll try not to be, that other thread has got me really pissed off). Not sure what's going on with the taskmaster, when I play later I'll test it a bit. the demolitionist is a great example of a 'learning' mob. Initially annoying, but once you learn it's rotation the instant cast stun is easy to avoid. Many mobs can be dealt with this way.

 

Also, I know people love to claim otherwise, but it isn't every mob, or even every group of mobs, or every silver. There are many many mobs out there, from basics to champions, with no status effects of any kind. there are also clusters of mob types that have a few - the bugs on Balmorra for example, have a number of short kbs and other effects that are annoying for melee ranged characters. Identifying and circumnavigating these effects is part of the skill part of the game (imo).

 

As for the mob types - healer mobs do heal, a lot usually. Dps mobs use various status effects based on type (typically) with melee ranged using stuns or movement impairs and ranged ones using kbs predominantly. Allowing tank mobs to taunt players would cause a bigger stink than any MMO forum has ever seen, I think, so I don't see that one happening (although I personally wouldn't be against it).

 

As for it being a learning mechanic overall - that's up to the player. Many won't and, as you say, will use their companion to eat the effects as much as possible. That's fine. Chances are that type of player is never going to get beyond SM ops at most anyway. Some can't (for various reasons) react in time or have difficulty learning the mob abilities. For those its a less than ideal situation but infinitely better than the alternatives of increasing HP or damage.

 

Finally - given all the QoL changes, things like the heroic travel shuttles etc, claims made in this thread about stuns etc being there just to increase time are ridiculous. They are there to provide something different within the common spaces where real game mechanics simply wouldn't work, to get players to think about more than simple dps.

[Myracarrah]

...

Finally - given all the QoL changes, things like the heroic travel shuttles etc, claims made in this thread about stuns etc being there just to increase time are ridiculous. They are there to provide something different within the common spaces where real game mechanics simply wouldn't work, to get players to think about more than simple dps.

 

I agree with you right there. I believe the CC/stuns are supposed to be a teaching moment, but I don't think that is working as intended. Some people will work on their own rotation, their gear, knowing when and how to use a skill or a companion. Others won't.

 

As for the shuttle... I admit to my own lazy on that one. I hate the shuttles because it makes the planets seem small... but I love them because I seriously do not want to bike to every H2 for my alliance.

[SootyTX]

I agree with you right there. I believe the CC/stuns are supposed to be a teaching moment, but I don't think that is working as intended. Some people will work on their own rotation, their gear, knowing when and how to use a skill or a companion. Others won't.

 

As for the shuttle... I admit to my own lazy on that one. I hate the shuttles because it makes the planets seem small... but I love them because I seriously do not want to bike to every H2 for my alliance.

 

They could be done better to improve that, for sure. A bit less clustering and fewer mobs with immunities to our effects would be great, and easy, starts. Part of the problem is also that mobs seem to use the 'original' versions of powers that have since been changed for players. That little kb on stockstrike by mobs? We used to have that until PvPers whined so much about it it was removed. Maybe making mob abilities more consistent with players would help as well as it would be easier to recognise what's going on.

[Myracarrah]

They could be done better to improve that, for sure. A bit less clustering and fewer mobs with immunities to our effects would be great, and easy, starts. Part of the problem is also that mobs seem to use the 'original' versions of powers that have since been changed for players. That little kb on stockstrike by mobs? We used to have that until PvPers whined so much about it it was removed. Maybe making mob abilities more consistent with players would help as well as it would be easier to recognise what's going on.

 

Now that would be a brilliant change.

[Khevar]

How about almost every fight with anything more than a Strong in it? Here's an idea, stop letting your companion play the game for you, you might experience it.

First of all, I've leveled a toon 100% solo without a companion. Was great fun. So your implication that I "let my companions play for me" is more than a little silly.

 

The example I gave in my earlier post (Oricon H2) was an example of a fight that I agree there IS to much CC. But that is solved with a tank companion.

 

Second of all, "almost every fight with anything more than a Strong in it" is patently false. Just last night I zipped through a half-dozen Heroics across several planets. Lots of strongs and golds. Some with multiple of each. I had little-to-no difficulty with CC in any of them.

 

Your complaints are not founded in reality, but in some imaginary situation that you're vastly over exaggerating. And the fact that you're quick to twist things into an insult match (i.e. your snide comment I quoted above) tells me you'd rather have a fight than a discussion.

 

Too bad.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Khevar

[SootyTX]

First of all, I've leveled a toon 100% solo without a companion. Was great fun. So your implication that I "let my companions play for me" is more than a little silly.

 

The example I gave in my earlier post (Oricon H2) was an example of a fight that I agree there IS to much CC. But that is solved with a tank companion.

 

Second of all, "almost every fight with anything more than a Strong in it" is patently false. Just last night I zipped through a half-dozen Heroics across several planets. Lots of strongs and golds. Some with multiple of each. I had little-to-no difficulty with CC in any of them.

 

Your complaints are not founded in reality, but in some imaginary situation that you're vastly over exaggerating. And the fact that you're quick to twist things into an insult match (i.e. your snide comment I quoted above) tells me you'd rather have a fight than a discussion.

 

Too bad.

 

I actually remember you starting that post back then and wondered if you managed to get it done - congratulations!

[Khevar]

I actually remember you starting that post back then and wondered if you managed to get it done - congratulations!

Thanks! Yeah, that was a lot more fun than I had expected.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Khevar