Dmg dealers breaking 2.5k dps, but hardly killing anybody or achieving WZ objectives

[DomiSotto]

n my opinion, the reason heals seem to dominate in so many pvp matches is because of the gross lack of damage dealers. Are there a lot of damage dealing players, yes, but is thier output significant enough to make a difference, no.

 

The problem lies in the gap in the output that a skilled player ( a tiny minority) can put out vs what a wast majority can do. The way the game is build, that gap is huge, basically 2-3x (in other words, 2-3K vs 600-1K). It is also clearly visible, because most folks are playing DPS come hell or high water. The more you nerf DPS, the more ineffectual the majority becomes, but it does not really hurt that fortunate 10% that have the talent.

 

Sorc/Sage's output is not so much less different, as it is sufficient to heal through what the rest of us can offer in terms of DPS. It is there in order to catch up to the top DPS.

 

I would love to see some sort of a mechanics change that will make the average and maximum DPS possible to come closer. as in 50% more DPS, not 300% (for example an option for auto-facing adjustment that is not as great as the manual, but will help with moving while fighting and allow for better awareness). An average individual's best efforts even when selecting the most opportune class are simply not enough at present to close this gap.

 

I can see how this suggestion will cause a lot of resentment even in theory, when we all know very well no fundamental changes will be enacted.

 

Other than that, I see no way out of this situation save for matchmaking based on the average DPS output, but that will be so artificial it's silly. Acceptance of the fact that PvP in this game throws together champions with the rest of us is the first step out there

Edited January 3, 2016 by DomiSotto

[Jedi_riches]

Well for me I have done a few warzones recently despite not liking it as its one of the few places I can get a moddable weapon (from the PvP weapons vendor), I am not particularly good at PvP either I am quite immobile so while I can produce decent damage on a target, they tend to get away before I can land the killer blow or in the case I recently I made a point of targeting sorc/sage healers but they always seem to get a heal off before I can kill them.

 

Of course all of this was lowbie PvP in the 15-30 level range.

[ALaggyGrunt]

If you're having fun playing the game, you're doing it right. Probably, there are a few exceptions (harassment and cheating come to mind).

 

If you aren't having fun, you're doing it wrong. You're either burned out or in the wrong game to begin with.

[Kazz_Devlin]

Now, now, this is the living proof of the blind hen being able to find a needle in a haystack . . .

 

Only the other day, I planted the bomb in VS, lowered the bridge and attempted to plant the second door on my VG Tank!!! At that moment there were me and four red ones at the second door . . . All the others were still in the first attackzone in front of the first door gathering their precious stats . . .

 

I'll say that there's a growing fear in the pvp community of not producing the stat and that it doesn't matter whether you're in a wz or arena or even know the difference between said pvp places . . . What I wouldn't give for a tandem stun while guarding a node in AHG, atleast it would show that some know what they're doing . . .

 

Wait your complaining cause peeps stayed behind? Is it not possible they stayed behind to give you or others a chance to plant bomb on next door? Hell some of my best wins on VS are when we hold back an entire team allowing peeps to plant bomb on next door not to mention subsequent doors. That's just good strategy.

[Giliodor]

As my favourite YouTuber likes to put it: "It's incredibly hard to win a game when your entire team is dead."

[Tiffanitte]

Go away, you are bad at PVP.

 

Not everyone has the gaming skills to manage it, its ok, there is plenty of PVE in this game for you, you will enjoy it.

 

At the end of the day, PVP is about winning, not taking part, and having you on my team, means I am more likely to lose than win, so you are essentially trolling warzones by just being there.

 

I do agree with you in your point regarding number chasers, they are as bad as you are, PVPers do not care about where they are on the leader board, what dps or hps they achieved, and certainly not how many medals they get (you get 1 comm per medal, who gives a darn), all that matters, is that we win the game.

 

The gaming world is catching up with our liberal real world where it is somehow wrong for people to lose, which frankly is garbage.

 

Competitive sport, or gaming is not about taking part, no one remembers the losers.

 

I couldn't stop laughing when I read this. Are you for real? OMG, if a video game is the height of your self esteem and such, you need re-evaluate your life and make some changes. Find a career, rather than a job. Anything other than a career in a video game which you PAY them. However, the company looks for people like you, count on you, and use you for your sad state of life, knowing they can make you a prisoner of their product just like a tobacco smoker. ADDICTED and USED and MANIPULATED.

 

I am just saying, if a video game goes beyond a fun and relaxing time with family and friends, then you need step back and figure out what's wrong with you.

 

To the author of the post: I agree, you need to take a break from game for awhile. Play something different. You sound burned out.

[Hoppinswtor]

Obviously this is about regs, not ranked, so I'm not even going to address 4's here.

 

90+ percent of the time, the people who complain like this are not good players. Everything happens for a reason in a warzone. 2.5k dps in a sustained fight is actually pretty low for most specs unless you're getting tunneled/focused by a tank.

 

People are right in saying that you don't need to be the top DPS on the scoreboard to be a good DPS (unless you're a dot/pressure spec); you have to be able to get kills and make plays, which takes more skill than mastering a rotation. But when it comes to a video game, like any hobby, people are going to have their quirks. Competition is ingrained in us, and people find different things at which to be competitive.

 

It's a video game, and I like to have fun in video games. I'm very competitive. I like to both win and perform well (e.g. top the scoreboard, win a 2v1, whatever) if possible, because I want to be the best I can be at anything I do. For me, the game starts feeling like a job if I babysit pugs all day. If I have a bad performance in a warzone and we win, I'll feel just as bad as if we lost. Everyone should strive for both exceptional individual AND team performance. If you're completely satisfied with a win but your personal performance sucked, then how are you going to become a better player? You can be the greatest objective player in da galaxy, but if you can't get kills as a DPS or keep people alive as a healer, you're pretty worthless. 95+ percent of players fail to realize this; you have to master both objective and class performance if you want to become elite.

 

These objective tunnelers and complainers...their only skill is looking at a map and clicking blue things. They couldn't manufacture a kill if their life depended on it. The best players will enjoy a deathmatch but still peel off to reinforce a node if needed, or take a few seconds off from their rotation to grenade a group of people and cap a few ticks on the bunker, or spend a GCD knocking a ripe target into the backline or mezzing a healer, or peel for their own healer instead of spam capping a node that the enemy is watching like a hawk, or guard if the rest of their team is good enough to hold the other node(s). Making plays in a fight sadly doesn't give you objective points, even though it takes more skill and awareness than clicking a glowing blue graphic. But dumb, delusional, and/or bad players (e.g. 99 percent of this game) will still assume they're number farmers because they're completely and utterly clueless, salty, or jealous.

 

People who mindlessly tunnel an objective (e.g. orbs instead of kills, spam capping, over rotating) are worse than damage farmers, who are at least keeping the team off the field of play. That one "damage farmer" who goes to the off node to deathmatch with 4 people for 2 minutes? That's creating a 7v4 for your team for an extensive period of time. That one madness sorc who cleaves and dot spreads? They're cancelling out 2-3 enemy healers and keeping them focused on staying alive instead of reinforcing an off node. There is a role for everyone; the problem is that these roles are fluid and the whole team has to understand what's going on in the warzone at all times.

 

Some players won't top the leaderboard, but have amazing awareness nonetheless and will still dumpster you. They can be pretty sneaky. Charlie is a great example of a player who doesn't always get top damage but is a HUGE asset to any team because of his utility, 1v1 potential, and awareness. There's no right or wrong answer here...just try to be the best player you can while doing as much as you can to help your team win. And just remember that clicking blue things is only part of a warzone.

 

tl;dr: perform well at your class/role AND have good objective awareness. You can't be good without both, because there will come a time when you need both.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Hoppinswtor

[Quarast]

There is some measure of a problem here when people farm numbers instead of following objectives, but doing excellent damage while also contributing to objectives happens more often than OP thinks.

[Hoppinswtor]

There is some measure of a problem here when people farm numbers instead of following objectives, but doing excellent damage while also contributing to objectives happens more often than OP thinks.

 

Yep, that's it in a nutshell.

[AlrikFassbauer]

In an 8v8, I do what I can to hinder the other team members in reaching their goals and damage my team members. This includes so much low-damage skills like leg shot.

 

However, this also leads to me - I see myself rather as a "peeler" - not hitting the top of the scoreboards at all. Which frustrates me a LOT, and also makes me vulnerable to people calling me a "bad" or a "scrub".

 

The scoreboards, however, only show 2 types of rise in competition : Damage numbers / heals / protection and objective play (guarding a node, for example). The scoreboards don't show anything between these two extremes.

 

While one could say that both protection & healing offer a glimpse into team play, all other sorts of team play are *never* acknowledged on the scoreboarsds - ad thus invisible. Like hindering people from capping a node. The scoreboards impose the illusion as if there was nothing but damage numbers / healing numbers / protection numbers or objective play. Or both. The scoreboards just don't show how much I've been helping my team mates to deal out more damage, heal others longer etc. by hindering the other team's members from blowing my own team members up. Like with leg shot, THE tool to hinder an top DPS to reach a weaker team mate ... Possibly even one who is still on the learning path, in an positive sense. I help him or her to learn to play better by keeping DPS away from him or her, in the best case. In the worst case, they all tunnel on me, of course.

 

TL;DR : The true play meta is so much bigger than the scoreboard is able to display.

It's as if you were finding a stone slab of some ancient civilization and don't know a thingle thing about the entire civilization; all that you learn about it is what you get by interpreting the inscriptions on the small stone slab.

Edited January 11, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[Anishor]

In hypergate, orbs give a few more points (each) than kills - but there are limited orbs and potentially unlimited kills. Orbs are really only an incentive to stop one team from simply turtling by their pylon.

 

And of course you can't take orbs if people are attacking you. Those people who just sit there spam-clicking an orb and screaming for their team to 'play objectives' are doing nobody any favours.

 

So long as both teams have solid node guarding, AH is almost all about kills. Things were a little different in 8v8 ranked where it was about a 3-4 split with a floater and capping your node while preventing the other team from taking theirs. But that level of coordination is beyond a pug.

Orbs = 2x Kill. So if you cannot kill 2 ppl in the time it takes to gather an orb it's more advantageous to run orbs especially in matches were there's a lot of healers and tanks.

 

Healers:

While there are bad players, sage/sorc healers are def op, and with slight adjustments would vastly improve balance. Removing the auto-roaming of wandering/roaming mend, switching which heal is affected by the heroic cast while moving talent will help.

 

Tanks:

For tanks, I think the amount of damage guard intercepts should be affected by how much defensive stats you have. So if you are wearing DPS gear your guard is effective than it is now. So yes if you like the skank tank playstyle you can still be that, but you will suffer penalties. Also tank specs should get a built in 5% or something to make shank tanks ( dps in tank stance ) less effective than tank specs.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I once had an Hypergates match where we had so much more Orbs than the other team - but lost, because they had so much more kills.

[Anishor]

I once had an Hypergates match where we had so much more Orbs than the other team - but lost, because they had so much more kills.

 

So they were killing you at greater than 2x the rate you were gathering orbs.

[Maegi]

If I have a bad performance in a warzone and we win, I'll feel just as bad as if we lost.

 

I can confirm that Hoppin' does, in fact, take it that hard when he thinks he did poorly. 4.8K dps.... i coulda had 5K i shouldn't have tunneled that guarded guy.... Hoppin'....you tripled the next highest in damage..... ya but I could have done more.... smh. LMAO Lova ya, Hoppin'.

[Jadescythe]

It's because 2.5 DPS isn't even that good. And nothing is dying because everyone else on the team is doing 1k DPS. Maybe if everyone pulled their weight, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[DomiSotto]

That's it, no desert for me till I get to 2.5K. Now it's like a matter of (nearly) life and death, not just some iffy self-improvement journey.

[Yamahara]

Are you the one crying "GET ORBS!!!!" when no one is dying in the middle of a hypergate?

 

Lmao. He probably is that guy.

[Ryuku-sama]

So they were killing you at greater than 2x the rate you were gathering orbs.

 

No. You're wrong.

Orbs are hard points. They are worth twice the point of a single kill in a single round. They are added once the orb reach the pylon. Kills are soft points. They are added after multiplier every round. So an orb is 2x*current_multiplier while a kill is x*(current_multiplier+sum(multiplier_of_every_future_round)) where x is the base value of a kill before multiplier.

 

Except in the last round where you can win by bringing 1-4 orbs to your pylon straight up, kills are worth much more than orbs.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Ryuku-sama

[CriticalMom]

These individuals are good at pressing buttons and that's why they manage to produce a non-stop dmg at WZs like my little sister would do on a training-dummy.

But then, if you look at their kills and/or achieved WZ objectives, it's nothing special. And their win/lose ratio is exactly the same that one would also expect from a 1k DPS.

 

I agree with Cretinus 100%.

 

Why?

 

Its like in Hypergate when you do the math knowing you need to try to get 2 pylons, and you look on map and there is 6 people in mid trying to get orbs or is playing deathmatch. Or in Huttball nobody goes for ball or try's to protect the ball carrier and everyone is where? MID playing death match.

 

Bottom line the PVPer's in this game care more about kills and that yolo 2 million damage than objectives, and it sickens me....

[LautrecofCarim]

Cretinus.

[Jherad]

Orbs are worth twice the points of kills, but they respawn VERY slowly. With a decent team you *absolutely* should be getting (far) more than twice the kills as available orbs - especially given that all that is needed to prevent an orb from being picked up is a single attack of any strength.

 

I always smile when I see the other team steadfastly trying to pick up orbs under fire. They're literally CCing themselves. While you kill another, and another, and another...

[DerSchneider]

I agree with Cretinus 100%.

 

Why?

 

Its like in Hypergate when you do the math knowing you need to try to get 2 pylons, and you look on map and there is 6 people in mid trying to get orbs or is playing deathmatch. Or in Huttball nobody goes for ball or try's to protect the ball carrier and everyone is where? MID playing death match.

 

Bottom line the PVPer's in this game care more about kills and that yolo 2 million damage than objectives, and it sickens me....

 

Exactly bro, exactly me

Anyway, beleive it or not, when I go for objectives, I win the vast majority of games. With any class.

 

To Cretinus:

Here's a tip: if you want to be pain in the healers @zz - roll dps jugg. You will be swimming in interrupts, even if you will not kill healer - he will not be able to use casting heals. And if you have a competent second dps - you can even kill heal+tank. Yes they die. I only struggle with them as ranged dps, because they often LoS and I do less damage.

Edited January 13, 2016 by DerSchneider

[RodneyMcNeely]

These individuals are good at pressing buttons and that's why they manage to produce a non-stop dmg at WZs like my little sister would do on a training-dummy.

But then, if you look at their kills and/or achieved WZ objectives, it's nothing special. And their win/lose ratio is exactly the same that one would also expect from a 1k DPS.

 

Yet, these great heroes of pointless damage locate themselves amongst the 1% elite PvPers. They feel entitled to yell at everybody who doesn't share their opinion, since according to them, everybody else is bad.

 

How comes?

Because most of the DPS that queue up refuse to hit the player with the big, glowing symbol over his/her head.

[gocard]

I'm sorry, but guys that do 2.5k dps and greater and not worrying about objectives are still going to help you win the warzone in most cases. It doesn't take the full team to worry about objectives for objectives to be achieved. Be the objective minded one while they output damage.

 

If their damage is good, it's going to help you win. If they're not focusing their damage, you can be the one ccing or separating healers and tanks, interrupting, and making sure damage becomes kills. High dps, I can work with. Low dps/hps is often times too much to individually overcome, especially in Novare and Civil.

Edited January 13, 2016 by gocard

[Lhancelot]

I'm sorry, but guys that do 2.5k dps and greater and not worrying about objectives are still going to help you win the warzone in most cases. It doesn't take the full team to worry about objectives for objectives to be achieved. Be the objective minded one while they output damage.

 

If their damage is good, it's going to help you win. If they're not focusing their damage, you can be the one ccing or separating healers and tanks, interrupting, and making sure damage becomes kills. High dps, I can work with. Low dps/hps is often times too much to individually overcome, especially in Novare and Civil.

 

Yeah, it's funny how people that are productive in dps or hps are being labeled bads because they are not leaders in objective points.

 

A healer can often times get pinned down doing nothing but healing. You really want him to run orbs, sit on a node guarding it, etc.? That would make the healer a better player because he has higher objective points?

 

And that dps that does double the damage of 90% of the team, you'd rather him not to pour damage out when he does it better than everyone else and helps you KILL stuff?

 

This is a narrow minded view of the big picture.

 

Yes, objectives are important, but so is performance. You aint winning anything if you have a team of bad performers unless the other team happens to be worse.

 

You need heals and you need dps to work hand in hand with the working of objectives in the majority of warzones.

 

about the only warzone that I find I can slack in doing damage or healing is in Huttball, and even then on my healer I usually heal fairly well numbers-wise because I am healing myself or the ball carrier.

 

Really huttball is the only wz that angers me when people derp their damage and heals on everything but the ball carriers thus not playing objectively.

 

The rest of the wzs, you can derp objectives a bit, and still win if you overwhelm the other team with vastly superior damage and heals, as long as you have a team that calls incs and guards nodes well and responds to calls.