Please keep the taint that is episode 7 away from the the old republic *spoiler*

[Aeristash]

Wookieepedia is a fan written wiki. Everything you posted was just a summary of what was seen in the movie. We don't know how much was vision, repressed memory, or what have you.

 

That was simply one source, i'm not going to list a dozen. You can google 'rey vision' and cross reference with the dozens of sites around the net, discussing the exact same thing.

[SaibotLiu]

1: What training are you referring to? I simply said he staff skill was the product of having to deal with the riff raff,which we see her do in movie.

 

2: And the bold contradiction is when I stop wasting time with the brick wall. memories you are not present for are not your own.

 

1. We see her fight in the movie with a staff. You inferred from that particular scene (somehow, someway) that is exclusively how she produced said skill. Correlation does not imply causation. Your logic is "she can fight people trying to steal from her so she learned to fight by fighting against people who steal from her." I would call that a logical fallacy but that statement and logic should not be mentioned together in the same sentence. That's how bad it was. Seriously, that's horrible, god awful, repugnant, foul, loathsome. I may have to bust out my thesaurus to illustrate to you just how terrible that was.

 

2. The part you're missing is, it was never clarified whether she was present for them or not. This was not addressed in the movie, in any way shape or form. You claimed it was when it wasn't. You're incorrect and digging your hole only deeper.

[Rhyltran]

That was simply one source, i'm not going to list a dozen. You can google 'rey vision' and cross reference with the dozens of sites around the net, discussing the exact same thing.

 

Other fans discussing the same scene does not mean we fully understand the implications of the scene. We don't know how much she was present for (if at all). Claiming one way or the other is speculating. Which is exactly what all of these sites discussing it are doing.

[Aeristash]

1. We see her fight in the movie with a staff. You inferred from that particular scene (somehow, someway) that is exclusively how she produced said skill. Correlation does not imply causation. Your logic is "she can fight people trying to steal from her so she learned to fight by fighting against people who steal from her." I would call that a logical fallacy but that statement and logic should not be mentioned together in the same sentence. That's how bad it was. Seriously, that's horrible, god awful, repugnant, foul, loathsome. I may have to bust out my thesaurus to illustrate to you just how terrible that was.

 

Actually, if I can think for myself a bit here; I was referring to the fact that she grew up on Jakku and has had to learn to survive on her own as a scavenger, which does explain her martial skill with the purse snatcher and finn. That mess you got going on there is entirely your own train of thought. You quite literally just drummed up your own explanation of my statement and then attacked your own logic as the worst thing ever. 'wow' doesn't even begin to cover it. Should really just learn to ask for clarification instead of looking ignorant by trying to think for both participants.

 

2. The part you're missing is, it was never clarified whether she was present for them or not. This was not addressed in the movie, in any way shape or form. You claimed it was when it wasn't. You're incorrect and digging your hole only deeper.

 

No, I got that part. The part your missing is the second half of your statement when you clarified that she does show up in her own memories. If she's showing up in her memories, but not others, those aren't her memories.

[Aeristash]

Other fans discussing the same scene does not mean we fully understand the implications of the scene. We don't know how much she was present for (if at all). Claiming one way or the other is speculating. Which is exactly what all of these sites discussing it are doing.

 

You just went to fan sites? It's the hot topic of mtv, screenrant, ect, all legitimate media. It has been shown that she was indeed present for her parents leaving, which signifies that visions of her own have her in them. The others are scenes with rey ingonito. The only thing that would be able to give her visions of the past, present & future without her having to experience it is the force, as it did with Anakin. The force isn't bound to the rules of time. It exist at all points at all time.

[Pirana]

1: What training are you referring to? I simply said her staff skill was the product of having to deal with the riff raff,which we see her do in movie.

 

2: And the bold contradiction is when I stop wasting time with the brick wall. memories you are not present for are not your own.

 

It's fairly obvious Rey has been trained at some point in her life, whether it be with a lightsaber or a staff.

 

My hypothesis would be that she was in the Skywalker school with Kylo and when things awry, she was removed, brainwashed/wiped and dropped on Jakku to hide her. TFA has already showed they're not fearful of recycling content.

 

Tossing out theories is very easy.

 

[SaibotLiu]

Actually, if I can think for myself a bit here; I was referring to the fact that she grew up on Jakku and has had to learn to survive on her own as a scavenger, which does explain her martial skill with the purse snatcher and finn. That mess you got going on there is entirely your own train of thought. You quite literally just drummed up your own explanation of my statement and then attacked your own logic as the worst thing ever. 'wow' doesn't even begin to cover it. Should really just learn to ask for clarification instead of looking ignorant by trying to think for both participants.

 

 

 

No, I got that part. The part your missing is the second half of your statement when you clarified that she does show up in her own memories. If she's showing up in her memories, but not others, those aren't her memories.

 

it's made clear that her martial skill comes from having to deal with riffraff over the years and the force is just now awakening with her.

 

Unfortunately it is not "made clear" that is how she attained her skills. You've inferred that from a single scene you saw in the movie, period. That is exactly the logic I ridiculed in the post above. Now you're backing off it like you never said it. If it is your statement that it is "made clear" that's how she gained those skills, either present the parts of the movie that show this as fact, or admit that it is not made clear at all. Now it is simply you "thinking for yourself" whereas before you stated that the movie tells us this. Is asking for a reference where it is all made so abundantly clear a huge problem for you?

 

As for the second paragraph, if all it takes is her being shown on screen in the scene during the vision to establish that she was in fact present for it, she was on screen directly in front of the Knights of Ren in her vision, her and Kylo were staring right at each other in front of us. So by your criteria, she was in fact there and she was recalling a memory she was present for rather than a force vision.

 

Since your logic is end all be all, I would guess it would be folly to refute this now, unless again, you wish to retract the statement.

 

By the way, it's pretty hilarious that you think anyone besides yourself looks ignorant right now.

Edited December 20, 2015 by SaibotLiu

[Kaisernick]

It's fairly obvious Rey has been trained at some point in her life, whether it be with a lightsaber or a staff.

 

My hypothesis would be that she was in the Skywalker school with Kylo and when things awry, she was removed, brainwashed/wiped and dropped on Jakku to hide her. TFA has already showed they're not fearful of recycling content.

 

Tossing out theories is very easy.

 

im sorry but who in the other trilogies had their mind wiped?

If you referring to kotor well for one that's not cannon now and two we haven't seen it happen in any content during and after the clone wars.

 

Also im sorry OP but Kylo was shot in the gut which seems to bother him quite a bit which is why he keeps hitting his side. (it may be that hes using the pain to become more powerful as we see in legends that pain can help a dark sider) but we dont know that for sure, and i still think the fact she uses the staff is why she is good with a saber.

Lets not forget that Grievous was supposed to be a master with sabers took on multiple jedi and he had zero latent force sensitivity so her being able to hold her own and even win once she embraces the force inst a far stretch.

 

Don't get me wrong the movie wasn't perfect but that scene is no where near an issue, it just require you to think and even then a genius isn't needed to figure it out.

[Pirana]

im sorry but who in the other trilogies had their mind wiped?

If you referring to kotor well for one that's not cannon now and two we haven't seen it happen in any content during and after the clone wars.

 

Also im sorry OP but Kylo was shot in the gut which seems to bother him quite a bit which is why he keeps hitting his side. (it may be that hes using the pain to become more powerful as we see in legends that pain can help a dark sider) but we dont know that for sure, and i still think the fact she uses the staff is why she is good with a saber.

Lets not forget that Grievous was supposed to be a master with sabers took on multiple jedi and he had zero latent force sensitivity so her being able to hold her own and even win once she embraces the force inst a far stretch.

 

Don't get me wrong the movie wasn't perfect but that scene is no where near an issue, it just require you to think and even then a genius isn't needed to figure it out.

 

Look up the definition of hypothesis. It's not difficult. Also, if you're going to quote someone in regards to their post, try not to single out one thing that suits you best and disregard the rest.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Pirana

[khsolo]

My thoughts exactly:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=860987

[Aeristash]

Unfortunately it is not "made clear" that is how she attained her skills. You've inferred that from a single scene you saw in the movie, period. That is exactly the logic I ridiculed in the post above. Now you're backing off it like you never said it. If it is your statement that it is "made clear" that's how she gained those skills, either present the parts of the movie that show this as fact, or admit that it is not made clear at all. Now it is simply you "thinking for yourself" whereas before you stated that the movie tells us this. Is asking for a reference where it is all made so abundantly clear a huge problem for you?

 

Revan? Really? You do realize that Revan's memories were actually his own recollection of his past, while Rey is simply experiencing memories of the force when she touches the lightsaber? And even then, Revan's memories didn't give him any control over the force; he still had to go back to the Jedi for training. And no, being an amnesiac Jedi never occurred to me, since it's made clear that her martial skill comes from having to deal with riffraff over the years and the force is just now awakening with her.

 

1. We see her fight in the movie with a staff. You inferred from that particular scene (somehow, someway) that is exclusively how she produced said skill. Correlation does not imply causation. Your logic is "she can fight people trying to steal from her so she learned to fight by fighting against people who steal from her." I would call that a logical fallacy but that statement and logic should not be mentioned together in the same sentence. That's how bad it was. Seriously, that's horrible, god awful, repugnant, foul, loathsome. I may have to bust out my thesaurus to illustrate to you just how terrible that was.

 

Since when has me become we? I'm not backing off of anything. You simply keep building your own detailed debate of what you think I'm saying and then attack it. Quite the self-destructive cycle. What do we know about rey? She grew up on Jakku, she's a scavenger, she has adequate fighting skill with a staff. Unless there is a weekly bojutsu class on Jakku, i'm pretty sure the movie makes it clear that her martial skills were honed from her scavenger life.

 

As for the second paragraph, if all it takes is her being shown on screen in the scene during the vision to establish that she was in fact present for it, she was on screen directly in front of the Knights of Ren in her vision, her and Kylo were staring right at each other in front of us. So by your criteria, she was in fact there and she was recalling a memory she was present for rather than a force vision.

 

Since your logic is end all be all, I would guess it would be folly to refute this now, unless again, you with to retract the statement.

 

*sigh* Post #80 Please. lol. stop. You're not even reading my post anymore.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Aeristash

[bigray]

I think some people miss the larger point and theme of the movies, which is that the Force is behind everything, putting all events and actions into motion. It's then up to individuals to make their choices so that events play out. Some of the repetition, similarity in themes between the series, these things are easier to understand in the wider context. If you are doing a scene by scene analytical comparison between TFA and ANH, for example, then you're not looking at it at the level that the writers intended. I suggest you try to pull yourself out of the ground-level detail and look at the saga as a whole, it's much more satisfying that way.

 

Oh, and some people just like to ***** and complain, there's that too.

Edited December 20, 2015 by bigray

[SaibotLiu]

since it's made clear that her martial skill comes from having to deal with riffraff over the years

 

You've been asked to provide specific evidence from the film that clearly demonstrates her skills have been learned exclusively by dealing with "riffraff" over the years. I can't prove where they were not learned from. I can not prove she did not learn them from beating up petty thugs her whole life. But you state this is in fact the case, and that should be provable since you've stated it is clearly shown, and hence the burden of proof lies on you. This is your claim, not anyone elses. You've clearly stated that this was proven by the film explicitly and shown for our benefit. So far you've been unable to back up your claims, you've only completely avoided the question while just calling other people ignorant. I'm going to go ahead and retract the statement for you since you're unable to prove it. It will be stricken from the record henceforth and we will all universally agree that you were incorrect in your assertions, and be better for it.

 

 

*sigh* Post #80 Please. lol. stop. You're not even reading my post anymore.

 

And though we all may be better for this as well, I will continue to read your posts. Besides the fact they're a source of nonstop hilarity, I enjoy watching you constantly backtrack when you're put on the spot. I like softies.

[Kaisernick]

Look up the definition of hypothesis. It's not difficult. Also, if you're going to quote someone in regards to their post, try not to single out one thing that suits you best and disregard the rest.

i know what it means and i did read your entire post. I do think its possible that she was trained and may have even had her mind wiped, but i dont know where your basing the connection of not being fearful of recycling content and what exists in current star wars cannon.

[SentinelThain]

I wish people would stop argueing over nothing.

I really don't think Rey had any form of training other than what her upbringing gave her,life looked hard on Jakku and you had to be tough to survive.

I personally think she is Lukes daughter,hence why she is strong in the force (also when Kylo was reading her mind he saw she had visions of the sea and an Island which was where Luke was found).

I thought she was easily the best character in the film,I disliked Kylo Renn.He was too emo and weak for me.As for Snoke I hope he is Plagueuis but he didn't look like a Muun to me.I would prefer him to be Sith rather than dark jedi nonsense.

[Kaedusz]

I wish people would stop argueing over nothing.

 

Why? I am having a blast reading the stuff.

[SithKoriandr]

I wish people would stop argueing over nothing.

I really don't think Rey had any form of training other than what her upbringing gave her,life looked hard on Jakku and you had to be tough to survive.

I personally think she is Lukes daughter,hence why she is strong in the force (also when Kylo was reading her mind he saw she had visions of the sea and an Island which was where Luke was found).

I thought she was easily the best character in the film,I disliked Kylo Renn.He was too emo and weak for me.As for Snoke I hope he is Plagueuis but he didn't look like a Muun to me.I would prefer him to be Sith rather than dark jedi nonsense.

 

He took a bow caster blast to the gut and didn't get sent flying by it, when everyone else shot by the bow caster, was not only sent flying, they died.

 

That doesn't sound weak.

 

As for emo. Well, he did want to be like his grand father.

[LeeTone]

Kylo was not fully trained. He had yet to pass his final trial and was still tempted by the light side.

 

 

Killing Han was the final step towards becoming a Dark Jedi (or what ever he and Snoke are) and shutting the light out for good.

 

Now that the deed is done, Snoke is going to complete his training so he will be much stronger in the next film.

 

 

Regarding Rey,

we don't know if she is completely untrained. She may very well have been a youngling considering that Jedi traditionally start training right after infancy. She might be the sole survivor of the Jedi massacre.

 

It would be hard for her not to be a Skywalker considering her raw Force potential is greater than Kylo's.

 

[maxetius]

Why? I am having a blast reading the stuff.

 

me too lmao. some of this whinging, especially the original post, its like people read spoilers and then went on this forum to complain about it without actually watching the movie.

 

the ignorance of specifics is what gives it away. i refuse to believe posters here who saw the movie are so stupid as to forget kylo was nailed with the bow caster when he angrily punches his wound about 4 times.

 

i also refuse to believe they forgot the bow caster was billed as powerful when it sent every trooper that it hit 20 feet and Han repeatedly mentions how awesome it is.

Edited December 22, 2015 by maxetius

[cs_zoltan]

the ignorance of specifics is what gives it away. i refuse to believe posters here who saw the movie are so stupid as to forget kylo was nailed with the bow caster when he angrily punches his wound about 4 times.

 

So? AotC Shaak Ti could blitz a warlord after being shot in the chest. Kylo has no excuse for not obliterating a janitor and a scavenger.

[adormitul]

Vader took a blast from a Walker and got out unharmed and in canon not in legends this guy took a hit from a bowcaster and already was in incredible pain. How does he thinks he can become as strong Vader?

[TiekoSora]

Something a lot of you are missing is that thousands of years of Jedi knowledge has been lost in the past fifty years of story. Luke was never fully trained as a Jedi, and only had rudimentary training in lightsaber technique. He passed on to his students what he knew, nothing more. Factor in that Kylo Ren left training early, and you have a subpar Dark Jedi.

 

As far as Finn, just look to when he faced off with the stormtrooper with the electro-staff weapon. Obviously these new stormtroopers have had a beefed up combat training regimen. It is easily recognized that Finn sees himself as an emerging hero, and possibly a Force sensitive. Regardless, he is brave and a capable warrior, and when facing off with a Dark Jedi who has incomplete training and is NOT using Force powers during the duel, he is able to hold his own. But as mentioned earlier, as soon as he tags Kylo, he is taken out of the fight swiftly.

[Kaedusz]

So? AotC Shaak Ti could blitz a warlord after being shot in the chest. Kylo has no excuse for not obliterating a janitor and a scavenger.

 

There are many other more important reasons why he and the movie were bad. The power disparity between his first showing and later showing is a minor thing.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Kaedusz

[SithKoriandr]

Vader took a blast from a Walker and got out unharmed and in canon not in legends this guy took a hit from a bowcaster and already was in incredible pain. How does he thinks he can become as strong Vader?

 

You mean the guy loaded in cybernetics and armor was able to take a shot from a Walker, while the guy dressed in cloth got hurt by a powerful blaster? That is odd!

[rasputein]

I just watched a kid with less training than a padawan, go toe to toe and win against a fully trained Dark jedi... Finn has never handled a lightsaber in his life and suddenly he's fighting like a master against a master? You'd think one of these super jedi is bad enough, but as it turns out... It seems that untrained force sensitives being able to wipe the floor with their decades experienced seniors is quite the trend now. it's like watching a level one newbie manhandle lvl 65 platinum bosses as if that was most natural thing. Oh no, this is where I draw the line. There is ridiculous and then there's just plain RETARDED. Let them keep whatever they got going on there in their movieverse and keep that refuse out of this game please. I was really worried about the legend canon becoming obsolete, but you know what? After seeing what's passing for the new canon, I'm real good with the legend.

 

couldn't disagree with you more, in fact during multiple scene in the movie they talked about completing Rens training and I thought it was obvious to everyone that he is still a apprentice learning not only about the force, but even if he wants to be a darkside user, he has gotten none of the physical deformities that come with great darkside use so that alone would say he has very little knowledge and experience with it.

Edited December 22, 2015 by rasputein