Producer Letter Livestream Wrap-up

[Tintfax]

It is not the biggest problem, that there is no new group-content. The problem is, that even the existing content is f**** up since 4.0. And still no word, when this will be fixed! (4.1 in Feb! this can only be a bad joke)

People are asking over and over again, when they will fix (or if there will be a fix at all) the mess in class balance, the Nim-Loot, the really bad tuning in OP's and fp's.... etc... and still not a single word.

The mood is getting more and more worse, not only in forums, also ingame, and many players have lost faith in this game. 1A Community-Management, Mr. Musco.

 

But we get hyped announcements for stupid rewards no one asked for. Hooray!

[Ghisallo]

It is not the biggest problem, that there is no new group-content. The problem is, that even the existing content is f**** up since 4.0. And still no word, when this will be fixed! (4.1 in Feb! this can only be a bad joke)

People are asking over and over again, when they will fix (or if there will be a fix at all) the mess in class balance, the Nim-Loot, the really bad tuning in OP's and fp's.... etc... and still not a single word.

The mood is getting more and more worse, not only in forums, also ingame, and many players have lost faith in this game. 1A Community-Management, Mr. Musco.

 

But we get hyped announcements for stupid rewards no one asked for. Hooray!

 

Forget about all of that. How about the simple fact that existing players have ONE piece of repeatable content... the SF... that's it. The story is a shared story so unless you intend on making the opposite decisions you have previously, and I tried that once, nothing is different.

To make matters worse... the difference between me saying "evacuate the ship" from the first chapter and "lets take as many of them with us as we can"? Well I got some dark side points sure but the "in story consequence" was a different email from an NPC I never see again in either case. That is a consequence?

 

 

Everything else is recycled stuff that they have done any number of times already. That is the biggest problem because it effects absolutely everyone in the game with the exception of the small minority that sees an MMORPG as something that you do not actually participate in a persistent world in but simply watch like an episode of your favorite cartoon.

[Ghisallo]

Traditionally, this is true.

 

Now we get to find out if that is the only way to do things - or if this experiment of BW's will successfully expand the MMO paradigm.

 

But that is based on a flawed premise. Look at everything else they have said and everything they did in preparation for this expac. This expac is NOT about a long term paradigm change...otherwise why say they would make new OPs and other elder game after the expac dropped? Why publish the fact that their initial design was NOT to have OP companions but rather have the heroic missions be medium difficulty that to start some players made need help with.

 

The answer... this expac is NOT about a paradigm shift. It is designed around attracting as many new players as possible while minimizing existing player loss. Instant level 60's, reset of companions. The assumption was that SWTOR players were still here because regardless of whether they solo'd, grouped or raided they like the story. A safe assumption. BUT look at the dedicated soloers complaining about level sync making 3 year old content relevant to level 65's...similar complaints from groupers and raiders. And if the story phased in placates them then the level sync'd and bolster content works because a new player says "zomg I just used an instant level 60 and look at how HUGE this is."

 

Problem is for the first time in near 20 years of MMORPG playing I see a unity people try to ignore because of the inherent animosity between many in the camps. Casual players and hard core, soloers and group/raiders are complaining in large part about the same thing...recycled content and complete lack or incredible lack of... new repeatable, playable content... which is the life blood of the MMORPG.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Makillda]

Forget about all of that. How about the simple fact that existing players have ONE piece of repeatable content... the SF... that's it. The story is a shared story so unless you intend on making the opposite decisions you have previously, and I tried that once, nothing is different.

To make matters worse... the difference between me saying "evacuate the ship" from the first chapter and "lets take as many of them with us as we can"? Well I got some dark side points sure but the "in story consequence" was a different email from an NPC I never see again in either case. That is a consequence?

 

 

Everything else is recycled stuff that they have done any number of times already. That is the biggest problem because it effects absolutely everyone in the game with the exception of the small minority that sees an MMORPG as something that you do not actually participate in a persistent world in but simply watch like an episode of your favorite cartoon.

 

I haven't always been a fan of your essays on the forums but this post nails my problems right now. If I didn't have 2 more class stories to get through, I wouldn't be playing at all right now. I'll pick one of those pub alts to take through Makeb up to Odessen then what? I still have 5 60s I haven't played yet because I have nothing to look forward to but the Alliance grind. Again.

 

It's too bad. I like raiding in this game but the old stuff is old.

[Stradlin]

I'm not so sure that they were expecting such a huge backlash from this. Some feedback from BW in this thread is sorely needed. The silence is deafening.

 

Did you pay atttention to these Forums like few weeks back when Companions spend nine days nerfed to the state where they won't play the game on your behalf? Or have you checked the Slot machine threads, or been around during any other storm-in-waterglass? Every single controversial topic turns this place to a massive apehouse. Inevitably there is also some measure of good posts/posters all over the place. Anything they have to say disappears thanks to the signal to noise ratio. Anyone from Bioware, from Lead Dev to Community Manager paying any attention to anything happening in General Chat of these forums is terrible idea by default. There is a reason why you see " in this TOR Reddit thread we checked out.." types of remarks from them now and then. Nobody reads this terrible apehouse, nor should they.

[tattoohero]

Musco, please give us more pvp, I beg to god please, more warzones, 8v8 ranked. You have not ANNOUNCED anything about pvp in 1 year and a half. I mean come on man.

 

How does the community manager give you anything? All he does is pass on info from the devs, he's not creating anything nor in charge of those decisions.

[tattoohero]

Did you pay atttention to these Forums like few weeks back when Companions spend nine days nerfed to the state where they won't play the game on your behalf? Or have you checked the Slot machine threads, or been around during any other storm-in-waterglass? Every single controversial topic turns this place to a massive apehouse. Inevitably there is also some measure of good posts/posters all over the place. Anything they have to say disappears thanks to the signal to noise ratio. Anyone from Bioware, from Lead Dev to Community Manager paying any attention to anything happening in General Chat of these forums is terrible idea by default. There is a reason why you see " in this TOR Reddit thread we checked out.." types of remarks from them now and then. Nobody reads this terrible apehouse, nor should they.

 

9 days? No, it was exactly one week which is seven days.

 

Do people not understand what a week is? Or how to read a calendar?

[Makillda]

Did you pay atttention to these Forums like few weeks back when Companions spend nine days nerfed to the state where they won't play the game on your behalf? Or have you checked the Slot machine threads, or been around during any other storm-in-waterglass? Every single controversial topic turns this place to a massive apehouse. Inevitably there is also some measure of good posts/posters all over the place. Anything they have to say disappears thanks to the signal to noise ratio. Anyone from Bioware, from Lead Dev to Community Manager paying any attention to anything happening in General Chat of these forums is terrible idea by default. There is a reason why you see " in this TOR Reddit thread we checked out.." types of remarks from them now and then. Nobody reads this terrible apehouse, nor should they.

 

That's the thing, though. This *****torm has nothing to do with the "rewards." It is almost all about the lack of information on new endgame content. Looking forward from that livestream and seeing this level of anger about a lack of ops and PvP content would have been a Nostradamus level feat of precognition.

[tattoohero]

It is not the biggest problem, that there is no new group-content. The problem is, that even the existing content is f**** up since 4.0. And still no word, when this will be fixed! (4.1 in Feb! this can only be a bad joke)

People are asking over and over again, when they will fix (or if there will be a fix at all) the mess in class balance, the Nim-Loot, the really bad tuning in OP's and fp's.... etc... and still not a single word.

The mood is getting more and more worse, not only in forums, also ingame, and many players have lost faith in this game. 1A Community-Management, Mr. Musco.

 

But we get hyped announcements for stupid rewards no one asked for. Hooray!

 

Except they send out a survey to people back in late Oct asking them about the sub rewards. They're doing what people asked for in the survey, what people have asked for in other via other social media.

 

Twitter asks questions about FE, most of it was about HK-55 and people wanting him back.

[Stradlin]

9 days? No, it was exactly one week which is seven days.

 

Do people not understand what a week is? Or how to read a calendar?

 

Lol, it is nice how you managed to dive right into the beating heart of the argument. GJ 07

 

That's the thing, though. This *****torm has nothing to do with the "rewards." It is almost all about the lack of information on new endgame content. Looking forward from that livestream and seeing this level of anger about a lack of ops and PvP content would have been a Nostradamus level feat of precognition.

 

Yeah, I fully agree. Ultimaely, I don't think that many care if free bonus goodies are great or not. It's just that if you get cherry-on-top with nothing underneath the said cherry, hungry people get annoyed. There hasn't been any meaningful, challenging group content, or GSF content..or PvP content in ages. Not even promises of anything like this on Horizon yet. And seriously, if somebody drops by to make some faux-optimistic " they said they might look into it sometime after septermber:) " bs I'll scream.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Stradlin

[_NovaBlast_]

Sorry, but I cringe every time i see your name at the top of a post because I know you are just going to either:

 

A) Keep repeating yourself about story being content and you love story. (I think we got that the 10th time you posted it, thanks).

 

B) Keep repeating the dictionary definition of "MMORPG" as if they are all one in the same and this game has never been about "multiplayer content". Sorry ]but it absolutely HAS been about that in the past, and is a big reason for a significant part of the population in the game asking questions about more of that same type of content in the future.

 

C) Giving a snarky, useless, fellow-SWTOR-player bashing style response for whatever reason. It really doesn't help things and likely makes anyone who considered reading your posts and seeing things from your point of view decide you are just a troll who will stand around fiddling while Rome burns.

 

I'm super glad for you that the game is going exactly the way you want it. I hope there are enough people just like you to keep it going, but I doubt it given the % of unhappy responses in this thread alone. So, why don't you go play the game that you love so much instead of quibbling over dictionary definitions with people on the forums until the game isn't around anymore because it catered only to you and people just like you instead of being the game it was for 3+ years which had BOTH good story and endgame content...

 

What I cringe at every time i see it

 

"pvp and ops are the core of any MMO "

"without pvp and ops this game is DOOOOOOOMED"

"story isn't content its just stuff to do when your not doing pvp and ops"

"Without pvp and ops you don't have a game "

"an online game without pvp and ops is just a single player game not a MMO"

 

In essence i cringe at your whole attitude displayed in this post .

 

But after reading all of that Imust say .....Wow a whole rant post dedicated to me i am touched....really... I must have really said something that really hit a nerve with you for you to devote this much to attacking me personally.

 

Although I will give you the credit that you did it with coherency and intelligence its not just a fail troll post like so many others that have attacked me .

 

So i will respond...............not sure if you will consider that a good thing or not ................

 

A- Yes and all the people crusade for "pvp warzones etc" are any different.As an example PVP and ops players have their own dedicated sub forums yet they keep bring their rants and temper tantrums into the general forum.

 

Why ? I don't have the quote but as one poster put "becase they don't get enough traffic" ....hmmm that says something in itself.

 

B. First of all ... Truth hurts? SWTOR at its core has ALWAYS been about story.

 

With other side elements and "forced" grouping as they used to hide content behind "group walls" in order to entice people to group. A practice they seem to be stopping for the better.

 

Second: if people keep saying the earth is flat I will keep reminding them its indeed round.

 

My whole point with that is the definition of MMO does not REQUIRE ops ,raids pvp or any such content to be classified as a MMO.

 

It does not turn into a "Single player game" without it either.

 

If you don't like hearing me say it how about another posters response

 

Which can be as much as using chat, nothing implies MM part of MMO means must group for it to be considered MMO content - but you apparently didn't say ( or imply? ) that so all good. I'm not about to go back over these previous posts to find out.

 

^^^^ is my entire point. If you like to hear it better from them so be it.

 

As for a significance portion i would disagree not only have I seen on other thread a "10% raiders / pvp" stat from some where all of Bioware's current trends have seem to be opposite of that face ... Making FP soloable , focusing on companion , focusing on story to just name a few . No one has Bio's true metrics so we can only try to extrapolate form the choices they have been making.

 

C Pot calling kettle black --- really you actually included that after the rant you just wrote . Simple solution if people stop responding in a snarky way the most likely result is they will get the same in return

 

Last paragraph

 

Thank you I do have my own lists of wants though so as with anything nothing is perfect . Not everyone gets exactly what they want ... ill post it at the bottom so you can see that for yourself . Im not throwing a temper tantrum about it .

 

I have no trouble multitasking thank you for your concern though

 

I believe this game is in no danger no matter how much you doomsayers want to believe it is .

 

Again you are blowing up the portion of ranting people making it seem like a mountain when its really an ant hill.

 

And for the record and i have said this many times before as well

 

I would be more than happy if they wanted to put in more group things such as FP and ops if they also included a way to solo them for the same rewards.

 

For example letting me use my crew for ops or at the very least some of those awesome droids in the sor solo fp

 

But then I get snarky elitist response as you stated you didn't like above

 

"why should you get the same rewards as us "

"we are better than you L2p then you can get that stuff to"

"we put "work and "effort" into it so we "deserve" more than you"

 

My response to that is simply ... If you enjoy grouping or if you enjoy HM or enjoy ops ....

 

why do you think you "deserve" more simply becase that is your play style and grouping is something you enjoy as well as that level of difficulty as opposed to someone who doesn't?

 

If i missed any points you brought up please let me know

 

Apart from the store ... here is my own wish list just so you know not everyone gets what they want some people jsut handle it differently.

 

For me, the most disappointing thing about the original companion romances is that once they play out to their conclusion and the sweet mails are forcibly deleted, there is nothing to remind you that they ever happened. x months later when you're walking around with your lover and they still won't give the slightest inkling that you were ever together, It gives off the somewhat depressing vibe that the romance happened in an illegitimate alternate bubble reality. What I'd like to see happen for romances in kotfe is:

 

 

• Special summon barks for romances like 'Honey, you called?' and 'I'm here for you'.
   
  
• Looped Kiss/hug animations activated by the wheel, like in dragon age.
   
  
• Lounge scenes like in me2. i.e: if you ask your romance to hang out, a scene could show you both having a drink together in the lounge area, or the pc stroking their lovers hair, bald head or lekku while snuggling on the bed (clothed).
   
  
• Also if possible, a picture of your romance to go on the wall of your study.
  

 

With things like that, it won't feel as if you're in a one sided estranged relationship.

 

I agree with all of this and have made a similar plea in a earlier post

 

we saw the practical uses..... I am looking for more social/ rp improvements

 

more companion /social aspects

repeatable cinematics

repeatable flirt / affection dialog (bg flirt packs)

continuously updated dialog

 

possible cartel items

romance DLC packs( me 3 type date quests)

Edited December 3, 2015 by _NovaBlast_

[Stradlin]

Except they send out a survey to people back in late Oct asking them about the sub rewards. They're doing what people asked for in the survey, what people have asked for in other via other social media.

 

Twitter asks questions about FE, most of it was about HK-55 and people wanting him back.

 

As the post you are quoting states, the wave of disappointment here isn't about how great or bad the rewards themselves are.

 

BW sends a survey to hungry people: How much salt do you like on your steak? Then they make big announcement, where they give hungry people..not a meal free or otherwise, but lots of salt instead. People get salty.

 

Even this would have been well received, had they not messed up with the Hype so bad.

They went with " OMG GUYS; BIG ANNOUNCEMENT NEXT WEEK!!". Had they instead announced they make a Twitch broadcast where they talk about new story for a bit, and then drop these as complete surprise, the feedback would have been much more positive I am sure.

[FAAmecanic]

Musco, after Palace and Fortress we were promised there would never be such a gap between new Ops again.

 

So please, just give raiders SOMETHING. Tell us the team is working on them. Please.

 

It's been a year since Ravagers and Temple, so tell us, what happened?

 

^^ This ^^ New Ops may keep me subbed. With the dumbing down of SWTOR in this new expansion (companions, stats, customizing companions) coupled with the ruining of the crafting system I am struggling to justify my sub $$$.

[FerkWork]

Any word on fixing NiM loot or New Ops BW?

[Joefjr]

Any word on fixing NiM loot or New Ops BW?

 

Even if they fixed NiM loot, with the weekly HM it's moot doing them besides bragging rights. They should remove 224 tokens from NiM, and make it all 228 tokens while leaving all the non-token drops at 224, then make the 224 craft-able. Which I'm sure is going to happen, because the only way crafting can reach new heights is with 224 gear because we can make 220 already.

[adamhudson]

Apresheate the streem but seriously anouther HK companion we all ready have one witch we got from cartel market,

I want to no about when will we be geting

 

1) New wz's or evan reskin if fealing lazy

2)not my main thing but for the raiders new raids

3)new world instances as promised befpr 4.0 realised

To show the damge done to korroban and outher places from the fallen empire

 

So far for all the hype all ime seeing is about 2hrs worth of story so far

Not really impressed tbh on that note i do enjoy the game its why i keep subbing but seems very poor so far just hope ypu lot do something or evan admit it and do a overhaul to give us something ie the promises you lot made us for the money we pay you lot

Thanks

 

Apologies for the spelling and grammar LIFE GOES ON

[Avinler]

Traditionally, this is true.

 

Now we get to find out if that is the only way to do things - or if this experiment of BW's will successfully expand the MMO paradigm.

 

There's nothing experimental or new about BioWare's actions other than seeing if they can keep MMO subscribers/revenue without producing MMO content.

[Kaytrine]

As the post you are quoting states, the wave of disappointment here isn't about how great or bad the rewards themselves are.

 

BW sends a survey to hungry people: How much salt do you like on your steak? Then they make big announcement, where they give hungry people..not a meal free or otherwise, but lots of salt instead. People get salty.

 

Even this would have been well received, had they not messed up with the Hype so bad.

They went with " OMG GUYS; BIG ANNOUNCEMENT NEXT WEEK!!". Had they instead announced they make a Twitch broadcast where they talk about new story for a bit, and then drop these as complete surprise, the feedback would have been much more positive I am sure.

 

All they did was post a feed on twitter that they are having a live stream which will include a major announcement; yet many are claiming they "hyped it sooooooooooooo much". They made an announcement. That is all.

 

That's like tuning into a channel and the first thing you here is "news at 11", then getting disappointed when the news is not something you care about.. like.. srsly. what?

[Avinler]

If this is the direction bioware wants to go, then fine. I just would like them to come out and tell us that there are no plans for new OPs/WZs if that is the case. Because I do reject this paradigm. And I will go elsewhere to find a game that actually offers what this game used to: multiplayer content.

 

I agree wholeheartedly and I believe (sadly) that this is why they are silent on the matter. If they tell us today that we will not see an Operation in calendar year 2016 I'd probably disband my guild and unsubscribe immediately and I'm far from alone in that outlook. I think that it is an increasingly likely reality that we will see zero new group content in 2016 but the lack of certainty in that regard gives me a tiny glimmer of hope that I cling to instead and they're exploiting that optimism.

[dscount]

There's nothing experimental or new about BioWare's actions other than seeing if they can keep MMO subscribers/revenue without producing MMO content.

 

Bingo.. HK-55 was already created.. How about we just give that to users. No real work needed. LOL

 

This rewards program is just that... how do we keep SUBS and not develop any content. Right now they have very little to offer and many had hoped the HYPE TRAIN was going to deliver something of value, but sadly did not.

[Rankyn]

All they did was post a feed on twitter that they are having a live stream which will include a major announcement; yet many are claiming they "hyped it sooooooooooooo much". They made an announcement. That is all.

 

That's like tuning into a channel and the first thing you here is "news at 11", then getting disappointed when the news is not something you care about.. like.. srsly. what?

Welcome to the wonderful world of gamer logic where every official statement is microanalyzed and misinterpreted so that rage can be fueled.

[Avinler]

lmao, more pve/pvp content will come out, this is a fact. stop saying doomsday preach

 

Why is that a fact? I think there is a strong case to be made that we will never see another Operation in SWTOR...

 

The best case scenario at this point is that we get a new Operation 18-20 months (sometime in August through October 2016 that means) after Ravagers and Temple of Sacrifice were released (December 2014). The game will either be in dire financial trouble by June if the grand plan to keep subscribers via story and trinkets fails or the plan succeeds and there's no financial incentive to ever make an Operation again because they're not necessary to satisfy the solo-story subscription base left in the game clearly. SWTOR will functionally be nothing more than a single player RPG with monthly story DLC for $15 functionally.

 

The path that they are on doesn't involve end-game group content because the game will either survive without it or shut down, there's no reason to believe that more group content will come out as a matter of fact.

[Avinler]

BW have said multiple times during the lead up to the release of KoTFE that there will be new OPs at some stage. They were less committal about new pvp wzs due to the cost and time it takes to make them.

 

I think what has most peoples noses out of joint is the lack of timeframe as to when they will arrive, which is understandable. But given the direction BW are taking the game which is storytelling (which is very expensive on its own) I'd be surprised if they had much money left in the budget to create a new OPs anytime soon. This will test the patience of the small but very noisy raiding crowd. My bet is BW are willing to write them off because the numbers are telling them that the non-raiders are enough to keep the game cash-flow positive.

 

You put too much faith in BioWare's ability to analyze data.

[Leklor]

All they did was post a feed on twitter that they are having a live stream which will include a major announcement; yet many are claiming they "hyped it sooooooooooooo much". They made an announcement. That is all.

 

That's like tuning into a channel and the first thing you here is "news at 11", then getting disappointed when the news is not something you care about.. like.. srsly. what?

 

Huh? Did we read the same thing?

They completely overhyped it.

A week before we had every member of the studio that uses Twitter post thing like "Are we ready? Is the world ready?", then followed by a week of continuous "We're doing something so completely awesome you'll die hearing about it" posts every 6 to 12 hours.

And you are surprised people are underwhelmed by the reveal?

That's a clear cut case of Bioware made overhype.

 

To compare with your news channel "example", it would be like having a news channel making continuous announcements during a week that at the end of it, they would release something to groundbreaking that the world of news reporting would be left in shambles by the aftershock of the reveal... And then, comes the announcement, something completely mundane.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Leklor

[Avinler]

Pity they can't make a star wars game, add a chat room for the "MMO" aspect and then that would be the end of this game.

 

A chat box doesn't make it an MMO...