Producer Letter Livestream Wrap-up

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Traditionally, this is true.

 

Now we get to find out if that is the only way to do things - or if this experiment of BW's will successfully expand the MMO paradigm.

 

Or completely kill the game.

[Guardian_Scott]

I would have been happy with a HK-55 skin for HK-51... mmm gold and red death. But I do like HK-55's personality better!

[Makillda]

please tell me how i got to Legacy level 50 ....without EVER doing a op or pvp ???

 

Not that it's relevant at all to your little dictionary crusade but the answer is obvious. You have alts that went through the story on the same server. Leveling a new toon has always been and will always be the best way to increase your legacy level. Grats?

[LordArtemis]

The old traditions no longer likely apply. This is part of the modern MMO model, most online games seem to be moving in this direction....casual friendly, less group content, more solo casual content, housing, minigames, appearance, etc.

 

It is likely a sign of the times. I think some folks refuse to accept that, and perhaps that is understandable.

 

I feel something has been lost, most definitely. Perhaps even one day MMOs will not even resemble the games of old. But folks can choose to embrace the new paradigm or reject it.

 

I choose the former.

[chelbelle]

It's hard to say when you don't have current facts and figures or metrics or what have you in front of you, but I do think you're underestimating the number of people who are into story and who would remain subbed for it. I'm glad that you're not one of those that say 'story isn't content' because it is. While I agree there is a significant faction that might not care about the story, there are plenty who are. I do hope for everyone that they'll find ways of implementing more things for people to do. I think we can agree that we all care about the game in our way and would like it to succeed.

 

I ran a petition a while back for more class story, mine was only one of many, but you can see by the responses and interest, that many people would stay for story. It just has to be quality story and it needs replay-ability, which right now, as the chapters stand, it doesn't so much. Below is the link to my petition I did, so there are many who are into it.

 

I think the main reason for offering such rewards at this time is owing more to the debacle with the companion nerfs. Many left for that reason, and they're trying to say sorry for what they did. That's why people left in droves, the companions were a big thing for many people.

 

Anyways, lets not make enemies of each other, we can like different things, and disagree about stuff, but in the end we all love the game.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=674757&highlight=class+story+petition

 

I may be underestimating the number of people that will sub for story. I'm willing to admit that. But mark my words, you, bioware, and many others are vastly underestimating the number of people that won't. And that's a huge, potentially game ending, mistake. I just hope bioware realizes that before it's too late.

Edited December 2, 2015 by chelbelle

[RogerApple]

The old traditions no longer likely apply. This is part of the modern MMO model, most online games seem to be moving in this direction....casual friendly, less group content, more solo casual content, housing, minigames, appearance, etc.

 

It is likely a sign of the times. I think some folks refuse to accept that, and perhaps that is understandable.

 

I feel something has been lost, most definitely. Perhaps even one day MMOs will not even resemble the games of old. But folks can choose to embrace the new paradigm or reject it.

 

I choose the former.

 

If the times are as you say. Most people are happy with companion buffs. So according to your logic that most people would like to play solo. The Nerf was actually a bad thing because it made Solo Content much harder and forcing people who don't want to group to group or quit the game it makes the Nerf less appealing it actually stripes away many of the solo content that the majority do enjoy.

[Jadescythe]

If the times are as you say. Most people are happy with companion buffs. So according to your logic that most people would like to play solo. The Nerf was actually a bad thing because it made Solo Content much harder and forcing people who don't want to group to group or quit the game it makes the Nerf less appealing it actually stripes away many of the solo content that the majority do enjoy.

 

I'd have to argue with the highlighted part. But ultimately, the community seems extremely happy with where companion power levels are now.

[Darkwords]

The old traditions no longer likely apply. This is part of the modern MMO model, most online games seem to be moving in this direction....casual friendly, less group content, more solo casual content, housing, minigames, appearance, etc.

 

It is likely a sign of the times. I think some folks refuse to accept that, and perhaps that is understandable.

 

I feel something has been lost, most definitely. Perhaps even one day MMOs will not even resemble the games of old. But folks can choose to embrace the new paradigm or reject it.

 

I choose the former.

 

I personally embrace the change and love seeing more solo and 2 person content. I like the option to choose if I want to group or simply solo or run content with a trusted friend. As in real life, there are times when you just don't want the in-your-face ftards that are ever more present in each OP I run. What is important to me, is to have a game that has the choice to obtain the set piece gear without always having to deal with 7 other's issues. When I solo or 2 man with a friend there are no elitists bad mouthing, noone asking for achievements, noone raging and bailing in mid-event, and no loot hoes/ninjas. It is my preference to play this way spiced up with an occasional group OP when I feel like testing my patience I think people are pretty fed up with the behaviors exhibited in almost every group you run now. Even spending time on Fleet chat to find a group is painful because the really horrid chat, especially on Harb server, is pretty sickening and unmonitored. Unfortunately, people choose to make groups live and group finder is rarely utilized so you are forced to listen to every form of bad ever spoken while you wait..

 

Hopefully there will be more content where I can obtain all I want by solo or 2 person runs along with perhaps crafting for end game set goodies.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Darkwords

[chelbelle]

The old traditions no longer likely apply. This is part of the modern MMO model, most online games seem to be moving in this direction....casual friendly, less group content, more solo casual content, housing, minigames, appearance, etc.

 

It is likely a sign of the times. I think some folks refuse to accept that, and perhaps that is understandable.

 

I feel something has been lost, most definitely. Perhaps even one day MMOs will not even resemble the games of old. But folks can choose to embrace the new paradigm or reject it.

 

I choose the former.

 

If this is the direction bioware wants to go, then fine. I just would like them to come out and tell us that there are no plans for new OPs/WZs if that is the case. Because I do reject this paradigm. And I will go elsewhere to find a game that actually offers what this game used to: multiplayer content.

[Lunafox]

I may be underestimating the number of people that will sub for story. I'm willing to admit that. But mark my words, you, bioware, and many others are vastly underestimating the number of people that won't. And that's a huge, potentially game ending, mistake. I just hope bioware realizes that before it's too late.

 

Like I said, how can we really know for sure? We have no numbers, just gut feelings. I'm not discounting your feelings about it. All we can do is wait and see and hope for the best.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The old traditions no longer likely apply. This is part of the modern MMO model, most online games seem to be moving in this direction....casual friendly, less group content, more solo casual content, housing, minigames, appearance, etc.

 

It is likely a sign of the times. I think some folks refuse to accept that, and perhaps that is understandable.

 

I feel something has been lost, most definitely. Perhaps even one day MMOs will not even resemble the games of old. But folks can choose to embrace the new paradigm or reject it.

 

I choose the former.

 

I choose to play other games pretty much now.

I still enjoy the marketing aspect of this game that I've created for myself and meeting monetary goals so it's enough to be keep me subbed for now but I've more or less stopped playing the game itself beyond occasional op runs.

 

Only a matter of time until they ruin the only part I'm enjoying and there really is no reason left to stay subbed.

[James_Mcturney]

The old traditions no longer likely apply. This is part of the modern MMO model, most online games seem to be moving in this direction....casual friendly, less group content, more solo casual content, housing, minigames, appearance, etc.

 

It is likely a sign of the times. I think some folks refuse to accept that, and perhaps that is understandable.

 

I feel something has been lost, most definitely. Perhaps even one day MMOs will not even resemble the games of old. But folks can choose to embrace the new paradigm or reject it.

 

I choose the former.

 

lmao, more pve/pvp content will come out, this is a fact. stop saying doomsday preach

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I may be underestimating the number of people that will sub for story. I'm willing to admit that. But mark my words, you, bioware, and many others are vastly underestimating the number of people that won't. And that's a huge, potentially game ending, mistake. I just hope bioware realizes that before it's too late.

 

Why even argue the sub for story part or if story is content or not? It's moot really because even those who "sub for story" aren't really getting much story to justify their subscription.

 

1 hour a month? Of which not even half of that will be story and the rest will be grind that people hate ( as proven by the opinions everyone gave over the companion nerf issue ). How many people are truly going to be subbed to keep getting that vs those that will resub every 3-6 months for a month to get a bunch of story and see the conclusion of that part of the story all in 1 hit?

 

I guess that's the million dollar question ( quite literally for BWEA because they will either make or miss out on millions based on these choices ).

 

So I personally don't buy into the story vs group vs whatever argument right now because the amount of story we are getting is pitiful in terms of being the ONLY content being added to justify our subscription.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

lmao, more pve/pvp content will come out, this is a fact. stop saying doomsday preach

 

Wonder how long PVP players said that before unsubbing?

 

To be fair there is a lot of "unofficial" information on a new PVP map/mode coming so that's something.

[RogerApple]

I'd have to argue with the highlighted part. But ultimately, the community seems extremely happy with where companion power levels are now.

 

All the topics showing how unhappy they are sitll exist they are just moved to off topic. I think you are confusing extreme happiness with content. People were extremely happy when the buffs in 4.0 You saw how many people complained when it was yanked away. I can imagine people being much happier then when that was going on.

[LordArtemis]

lmao, more pve/pvp content will come out, this is a fact. stop saying doomsday preach

 

...stop saying doomsday preach?

 

Well. I couldn't even begin to explain the logic errors in your statement, but I will suffice to say that perhaps you may find more success in expressing your contentions if you avoid speaking...in a manner which lacks clarity.

 

Of course you could share what exactly you meant by this comment, or where you seemed to enter into a confused state, where I stated things that I clearly did not.

[chelbelle]

Like I said, how can we really know for sure? We have no numbers, just gut feelings. I'm not discounting your feelings about it. All we can do is wait and see and hope for the best.

 

I mean, I'm seeing entire guilds jump ship. My guild is going to wow and we are all founders, many of whom have been subbed this entire time. Pvp and raiding guilds are dying left and right. Those that are still up and running are hemorrhaging members and can't recruit enough to keep up with the losses. I realize this is anecdotal, but it's happening in enough guilds to be cause for alarm.

 

I hope you're right, and enough people stick around to sustain the game when all is said and done. But bioware needs to take this seriously. Even if us "group content" folks are the minority, that doesn't necessarily make us insignificant. If we leave it will hurt the game. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on how much.

[Ottoattack]

I'll make this brief…

 

Story is not content. To be clear, I started playing this game in the first place because of story. However, even with that enthusiasm and focus, I wasn't planning on playing for very long. Because story doesn't last. I played KOTOR I probably over 30 times, and ME1 almost that much, but that is dwarfed by the amount of time I've spent in SWTOR.

 

The time I've spent in SWTOR has not been because of its story. I've certainly played all of the story content, and I've enjoyed it… the first time through. But now it's over. I have no desire to re-play even the KotFE storyline, despite its excellence. Story doesn't retain ongoing activity in the game.

 

Story is flavor. Content is substance. Content is something that you do in groups, because people are what give meaning and variety to repetitive actions. PvP and GSF are the embodiment of this philosophy, but PvE (especially operations) are as well. Operations, GSF and warzone maps. These are content. These are what players have poured endless hours into repeating, despite the unchanging nature of the boss fights or objectives or terrain. Nobody is pouring that amount of time into any story.

 

SWTOR needs new content. Desperately. There hasn't been a single piece of new PvE content since 3.0. There hasn't been a single piece of new PvP or GSF content for even longer. Without content, communities have nothing to do. Guilds die and players leave. All you have left are solo players who log in for a few hours every week, trickle-consuming the story.

 

I'm not even sure there's a question in here, other than the obvious "when will you release any new content?" And don't say story, because story isn't content.

 

^This.

 

I will also add, sub rewards are nice and all, but I do not sub to get "rewards" but to get "content."

 

Side note, I can watch the story on YouTube. I am not subbing for the cut scenes, but for the game play. Your story (BW's), in large, does not offer the later and you are not offering anything else.

 

Why would I pay you, BW, $15 a month?

Edited December 2, 2015 by Ottoattack

[chelbelle]

Why even argue the sub for story part or if story is content or not? It's moot really because even those who "sub for story" aren't really getting much story to justify their subscription.

 

1 hour a month? Of which not even half of that will be story and the rest will be grind that people hate ( as proven by the opinions everyone gave over the companion nerf issue ). How many people are truly going to be subbed to keep getting that vs those that will resub every 3-6 months for a month to get a bunch of story and see the conclusion of that part of the story all in 1 hit?

 

I guess that's the million dollar question ( quite literally for BWEA because they will either make or miss out on millions based on these choices ).

 

So I personally don't buy into the story vs group vs whatever argument right now because the amount of story we are getting is pitiful in terms of being the ONLY content being added to justify our subscription.

 

Myself and many others have tried to make this point. As someone that likes story also, I just don't see it as a good value. $150 for roughly 13 hours of story is just not a great deal. People can disagree all they want, but that doesn't change the fact that you can get more bang for your buck elsewhere.

Edited December 2, 2015 by chelbelle

[Ottoattack]

I can never comprehend swtor forum logic, someone needs to explain it to me.

 

Tell me I've got this right:

 

- An announcement and livestream is made to discuss subscriber rewards

 

- Riots break out across the forums because there is no updates about raiding or pvp....in a subscriber rewards announcement. Much hate towards Eric and declarations of sub quitting ensues.

 

- 2 weeks from now, after biting the heads off every BW/EA employee, we will read new forum posts complaining that the devs don't communicate with their swtor community and they don't tell us anything.

 

Then the whole circle of swtor forum life continues until the next livestream

 

People are not complaining cuz BW has been giving us a boat load of info all over the place and the player base is "over reacting." BW has provided zero info regarding content except we will get a story chapter 2 month from now at a pace of 1 every month, which is 30 minutes of game play and 30 minutes of cut scenes?

 

The player base reaction is normal and expected considering what is BW offering for the sub price.

[Ottoattack]

I'm subscribing for a new story chapter each month starting in February.

 

That's the new model they're working with - an ongoing, Telltale Games-ish approach to an MMO, rather than relying on repeatable group content as the main draw. The types of replayable content are various side-games to that core product.

 

It's a model that works for me and my game preferences - sorry to hear it doesn't seem like your cup of tea.

 

It is a model that I would love too. Now if BW give me 7-10 hours of story content every month including high quality cut scenes and engaging game play, I will gladly give them $15 a month.

[BigBreakfast]

I can never comprehend swtor forum logic, someone needs to explain it to me.

 

Tell me I've got this right:

 

- An announcement and livestream is made to discuss subscriber rewards

 

- Riots break out across the forums because there is no updates about raiding or pvp....in a subscriber rewards announcement. Much hate towards Eric and declarations of sub quitting ensues.

 

- 2 weeks from now, after biting the heads off every BW/EA employee, we will read new forum posts complaining that the devs don't communicate with their swtor community and they don't tell us anything.

 

Then the whole circle of swtor forum life continues until the next livestream

 

This live stream was about the sub rewards yes.

 

But people were upset about no new ops long before this announcement. There are other issues too like pvp, class balance, bugs, etc... that have been around for a long time.

 

Why I think people got angry was because we realized that it wasn't a reward for current subs (no entitlement going on here) but rather an incentive for new subs.

 

Also, yes, communication is not at the level a lot of people think it should be at. We've asked on forums and at cantina events about stuff like new ops, with no information other than "not with KotFE". So when we actually have a chance to see the Devs and communicate via a light speed twitch chat, we kind of hope for / expect a little bit more general information about the overall direction of the game.

[tmwfte]

It is a model that I would love too. Now if BW give me 7-10 hours of story content every month including high quality cut scenes and engaging game play, I will gladly give them $15 a month.

 

Even Telltale doesn't do that, but they don't have the audacity to charge you $15/month for their chapters. It's either a flat fee of $25-$30 for the "season" or $5 per episode depending on the platform.

[Zhedzaban]

If this is the direction bioware wants to go, then fine. I just would like them to come out and tell us that there are no plans for new OPs/WZs if that is the case. Because I do reject this paradigm. And I will go elsewhere to find a game that actually offers what this game used to: multiplayer content.

 

BW have said multiple times during the lead up to the release of KoTFE that there will be new OPs at some stage. They were less committal about new pvp wzs due to the cost and time it takes to make them.

 

I think what has most peoples noses out of joint is the lack of timeframe as to when they will arrive, which is understandable. But given the direction BW are taking the game which is storytelling (which is very expensive on its own) I'd be surprised if they had much money left in the budget to create a new OPs anytime soon. This will test the patience of the small but very noisy raiding crowd. My bet is BW are willing to write them off because the numbers are telling them that the non-raiders are enough to keep the game cash-flow positive.

[bob_y]

Give us some content please, and soon, or the community will leave for some others games.