Class Adjustments For PVP (Compendium Vol. 1)

[Giliodor]

you never try to be honest speaking on your class i guess, it's ok, only the brave does.

 

-force camouflage grants immune to snare and roots, if you play the utility.

 

- mad dash grants a immune to numerous roots. and breaks a roots if you take the utility.

 

- predation breaks roots and give a undecent mobility if you take the utility

 

Nobody takes these utilities, because there are better utilities that you should pick. If you pick the ones you mentioned, you're not going to have OP Predation, or you're not going to have 6 second Undying Rage.

 

- the 6sec immune cc is tier 1, srly even for a 3min cooldown you can try if you play rage to add a 12sec for an important 1vs1.

 

1vs1? Is balanced based off 1vs1? That's a really poor means of measuring balance.

 

- carnage's burst is really good (i play the spec,you're just like a berserk in total blast mode imo, even against a PT), rage 2 hit burst is strong.

 

So ~27k damage (assuming you have your insta crit VT) is really good? Then why are Mercs not OP? Or Snipers?

 

In warzones, maraudeur is OP. 2 in a group is clearly a big advantage (and not just for predation), after sage/sorc healers.

 

That's just wrong. They're not useful when they're bads, only when you have good marauders in your group. That, however, is completely irrelevant, because any good player is an asset to the team, at any class.

[danciak]

OVER-PERFORMING CLASSES THAT NEED ADJUSTED:

 

1. AP/PT:

 

Burst is too high, sustained damage way too strong for such high burst. Needs nerfed. If people want the ridiculous burst and sustained damage to stay, then HO needs a higher CD or lower active time available, OR remove leap. This is stupid how mobile such a high-octane DPS class is. NO dps should enjoy 2nd highest damaging attack, highest burst along with awesome mobility. Utterly ridiculous.

 

 

2. Healing sorc:

 

Healing is over-performing. Either adjust power management so heals take more power (seeing the class can simply get instant power from clicking their power regen ability, or lower some of the heals. Why do other classes have to micro-manage their healing and power useage and still have less overall healing? Totally imbalanced here!

 

 

NOTE: I know this is the elephant in the room, no one wants to address overperforming juggs because of the staunch defense of the players who main this class, but, let's be honest with it here. I realize this will be met with "juggs are fine it's a L2P issue!", and that's fine too, but let me express my opinion and then you decide.

 

 

3. Juggernaut:

 

Overall damage is a bit high. Needs toned down. When a jugg is doing top damage in a wz, and also providing 1mil guarding, yeah, something aint right. Either nerf heal-to-full to only providing them with health up to 50% of their full health. Full health from this ability makes a jugg entirely too effective at staying alive and doing extreme amounts of damage. Why this class gets to enjoy the most powerful defensives available ALONG with a heal-to-full ability is beyond me. Either some nerf to their damage needs done, or their defensives need altered.

 

 

4. MM Sniper burst:

 

I really had to struggle with this, because the class is such a predictable one and to really get the most out of it, IMO it requires the most optimal situations. Meaning, it has to have a target that stands and eats it's damage in the face. Most average players realize when they see the ambush crosshairs on them, they need to find a LOS to hide. But. 30-35k crits, basically half the hps of a player in PVP in one hit is a tad extreme.

 

IF, and only IF this damage is toned down, then snipers need some mobility or some better defensives. I know this will never happen, so honestly, I am content with them having slightly too high damage on their big hits. It's very situational, and manageable IMO.

 

 

5. Madness Sorc:

 

This dot-spreading machine is overperforming with how easy it spreads it's dots, and how much damage they do. Fluff damage? Maybe. But, it kills and puts a lot of pressure on healers.

 

Either make the dots cost more power so they can't throw dots everywhere with no worries of running out of power, ever, or make the dot-spread more complex so it's not so easy to spread. I don't think reducing the damage is a good idea because heals are able to counter them fairly easily as it is now.

 

 

6. Deception Assassin:

 

Low slash is too powerful. This class already enjoys tons of CC immunities along with tons of CC to be used on enemies. A four second mez, on a 15 second cooldown is stupid. Either make the ability have a short 4m range, or lengthen cooldown time on it! A 4 second mez should not be on a 15 sec cooldown with a 30m range!

 

 

 

UNDER-PERFORMING CLASSES THAT NEED ADJUSTED:

 

 

1. Merc Healer:

 

This healer doesn't manage AE damage as well as the other two, but with the above changes it wouldn't matter. The main issue this class suffers from is lack of ability to deal with focused damage. It needs a way to break out of combat and force a switch when focused, as both other healers get.

 

If this doesn't happen, then the class needs to have even better innate defensives to deal with the constant barrage of never-ending damage they receive. Propulsion should automatically give the healing merc immunity to leaps, interupts and CC for 6 seconds. Making the merc have to choose this as a choice in their top tier of utilities is redundant because, NO ONE will pick it as there are WAY more important choices that have to be picked instead!

 

An alternative way would be to create a new ability; after propulsion some sort of overload shield is thrown up and absorbs all damage for 8 seconds and renders the merc immune to all CC (similar to god-bubble that sorcs get).

 

 

2. Lethality Operative:

 

This class has the most retarded dot-spread mechanic in the game. The dots hit like wet noodles and it's burst takes too long to set up and hits like a pillow. Needs more hitting power, either on it's burst or make it's dots actually hurt!

 

 

3. Lightning Sorc:

 

This dps needs better burst, period. When a healer can simply ignore it's burst and continue healing others as well as themselves while this dps targets them, you know it's weak. Just bump up it's burst please.

 

 

4. IO Merc:

 

Having the second most retarded dot-spreading mechanic in the game, this class has potential to be decent. The problem is, it really has an ability bloat imo. You have to load up so many dots to get all your procs rolling and all your damages moving that you end up out of power after one complete rotation!

 

Maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but this class runs out of power so fast, and to spread it's dots, too many other abilities have to be layered to maximize their damage before dot-spread can even be started. It's just very clunky, and needs to be redone, the whole damaging system of this class is bad.

 

 

5. Pyro PT:

 

I have to admit, my experience of playing this spec is nil. I only can speak from the perspective of fighting them, but it's pretty obvious they are underperforming because I can't tell you one player that plays this spec in PVP and makes an impression on me. They seem to have no burst, and no survivability. Others could give better feedback on what exactly they need.

 

 

6. Virulence Sniper:

 

This class was in a good spot prior to 4.0, after that, their dots hit like wet noodles and their burst with cull is utterly pathetic. Totally unplayable in PVP now, complete garbage and gutted for no reason!

 

Lol . Nerf evry hight burst class (pt, sniper, jugg, mara) because healers are underpowered. Your main is mando healer ?

 

7. Nerf healing in game.

Edited November 29, 2015 by danciak

[alexsamma]

Lol . Nerf evry hight burst class (pt, sniper, jugg, mara) because healers are underpowered. Your main is mando healer ?

 

7. Nerf healing in game.

 

To be totally fair neither ops or mandos are designed to be able to heal through the burst classes that currently exist in the game, sorcs are the only healing AC that currently has the toolset to deal with single target burst classes that can dish out 4-5k dps while bursting every 10-15 seconds, and even sorcs die to good dps.

[Bolizlyfe]

juggs are just fine

[Lhancelot]

Hey Lance, could you post screen shots of some your best matches on your sage, I just want to get an idea of what faceroll/easy mode in your vocabulary really translates to because I find that all but the best sage/sorc healers crumble when they face tough opposition.

 

To be even more subjective, it would be better to look at overall statistics, such as the Harbinger Records, not my personal performance.

 

I am average but I can put out over 4k HPS depending on the match with my sage, on my merc healer in the same warzones I manage literally 1-1.5k less HPS. It's a pretty big difference.

[alexsamma]

To be even more subjective, it would be better to look at overall statistics, such as the Harbinger Records, not my personal performance.

 

I am average but I can put out over 4k HPS depending on the match with my sage, on my merc healer in the same warzones I manage literally 1-1.5k less HPS. It's a pretty big difference.

 

So, you're better at playing a sage healer than a merc, which actually makes perfect sense since you have more experience playing the class and merc healers are simply not designed to heal through the current high burst meta dps without a tank; you're also playing on a server where people think that 2.5k dps is good dps and it's possible to beat an 8 man premade running double sage heals and two tanks if you have 3-4 decent players.

 

So let's look at the one game mode that is somewhat balanced, team ranked, if healing (sorcs in particular) is OP then two equally matched teams should go to acid most of the time, but that is not happening, people are still dying in team ranked even with a tank and running sorc healers.

 

People who aren't pushing these classes anywhere near their full potential have a skewed perspective on balance, when dps struggle to hit 1-2k dps of course healers (and definitely sorc healers) are going to appear OP, and if you are only pulling 3-4k hps you're going to think that healing is really hard when you go against dps players who pump out 3.5-4k+ dps.

 

In reference to the harbinger records thread I think you'll find that an Operative healer currently holds the top hps spot, and many of the crazy hps games posted by sorcs are either healer/tank heavy games, or two teams that are intentionally farming numbers.

[DerSchneider]

3. Juggernaut:

 

Overall damage is a bit high. Needs toned down. When a jugg is doing top damage in a wz, and also providing 1mil guarding, yeah, something aint right. Either nerf heal-to-full to only providing them with health up to 50% of their full health. Full health from this ability makes a jugg entirely too effective at staying alive and doing extreme amounts of damage. Why this class gets to enjoy the most powerful defensives available ALONG with a heal-to-full ability is beyond me. Either some nerf to their damage needs done, or their defensives need altered.

 

Jugg can do top dmg and 1m+ protection in 2 ways:

1) In tank tree with dps gear, while all enemy dps are baddies

2) In vengeance tree skank guarding healer and just fluff aoe everything (and all enemy dps are baddies).

Actually any tank can do that.

The sustained dps of juggs for some reason is among the lowest, dotspread is fluff. My guildmate got top 3 title from one of the seasons and his record is 4k dps. While my another guildmate is also top 3 hatred assassin and he pulled 6k+ dps. Not saying hatred is OP atm, just the fact.

Also juggs even now underperforming in PVE, really wanna nerf damage even more?

 

By nerfing ED to 50% we will just get another arena punchbag instead of merc, the only difference is that he will not pull any damage before dying. I know it's a solution, but maybe better redesign merc?

 

Tank tree is still worst though, barely viable in solo ranked.

 

PS: about IO merc agree completely, the energy management is the biggest crap I ever seen.

The other ideas are ok.

Edited November 30, 2015 by DerSchneider

[MrGoldsilver]

-Snip-

 

1) I agree that AP needs a nerf, maybe start by reducing the in-tree surge to 10% instead of 30%, and see how that works.

 

2) No idea how to balance sorcs, as it's the only healing class I don't play often, but I agree that something should be done with them.

 

3) I personally feel jugs are fine right now, if anything they should just have less mobility. Make them a slow class that hurts when you get near them, and can shrug off a lot of damage.

 

4) No Idea if MM burst should be nerfed, but I feel that Engineering should get a in-tree cooldown reduction to their cooldown reset ability, to make it closer to engineering was pre-3.0.

 

5) Make Force Leach apply deathmark (Increase DOT damage) instead of Death Field. That should nerf the DoT spread damage enough.

 

6) I feel deception's fine for the most part, yes the lolslash is annoying, but it's not game breaking right now.

 

NEXT

 

1) Merc healer: Personally I'd like to see Kolto Missile's base cost reduced by 5 heat, so it's actually worthwhile before lv 60, Also when Kolto Shell heals a target, it should have a chance to gain a charge of Super Charge, with a few seconds rate limit. Finally Emergency Scan should have a lower cooldown. Either have something reduce it's active cooldown, or just reduce the base cooldown. If they made Rocket Out off the GCD like the operative/assassin teleport, that would make it more useful also.

 

2) Lethality is more of a triple debuff spec, not a DoT spec, but I would like to see quickening make Kolto Infusion off the GCD, Frag Grenade should spread Corrosive Dart instead, and if you really want to buff the damage, make Fatality cause Corrosive Assault an auto-crit, and change to set bonus auto-crit to Lethal Strike.

 

3) I don't play my sorc often, so I can't really say how to balance the class.

 

4) IO's DoT spread should only be one ability. Maybe buff Death From Above (Reduced cooldown) and make that spread it's DoT's. Not sure what else, as I don't play IO often.

 

5) Pyro is trying to be a DoT spec, and a cleave spec, and thus fails at both. I'd like to see it be reworked somewhat to be similar to lethality, where the DoT's don't deal a huge amount of damage, and instead increase the damage done by Flamethrower. Also Flamethrower should spread both dots at an earlier level, and should either be useable while moving (which might be awkward) or have a larger area of effect. Basically return it to the pre-3.0 cleave spec, with extra damage from the DoT's

 

6) No idea how to buff that spec, as I haven't played Lethality Sniper since I leveled my origional Sniper pre-2.4

[Qwurdilu]

OVER-PERFORMING CLASSES THAT NEED ADJUSTED:

 

1. AP/PT:

 

Burst is too high, sustained damage way too strong for such high burst. Needs nerfed. If people want the ridiculous burst and sustained damage to stay, then HO needs a higher CD or lower active time available, OR remove leap. This is stupid how mobile such a high-octane DPS class is. NO dps should enjoy 2nd highest damaging attack, highest burst along with awesome mobility. Utterly ridiculous.

 

 

2. Healing sorc:

 

Healing is over-performing. Either adjust power management so heals take more power (seeing the class can simply get instant power from clicking their power regen ability, or lower some of the heals. Why do other classes have to micro-manage their healing and power useage and still have less overall healing? Totally imbalanced here!

 

 

NOTE: I know this is the elephant in the room, no one wants to address overperforming juggs because of the staunch defense of the players who main this class, but, let's be honest with it here. I realize this will be met with "juggs are fine it's a L2P issue!", and that's fine too, but let me express my opinion and then you decide.

 

 

3. Juggernaut:

 

Overall damage is a bit high. Needs toned down. When a jugg is doing top damage in a wz, and also providing 1mil guarding, yeah, something aint right. Either nerf heal-to-full to only providing them with health up to 50% of their full health. Full health from this ability makes a jugg entirely too effective at staying alive and doing extreme amounts of damage. Why this class gets to enjoy the most powerful defensives available ALONG with a heal-to-full ability is beyond me. Either some nerf to their damage needs done, or their defensives need altered.

 

 

4. MM Sniper burst:

 

I really had to struggle with this, because the class is such a predictable one and to really get the most out of it, IMO it requires the most optimal situations. Meaning, it has to have a target that stands and eats it's damage in the face. Most average players realize when they see the ambush crosshairs on them, they need to find a LOS to hide. But. 30-35k crits, basically half the hps of a player in PVP in one hit is a tad extreme.

 

IF, and only IF this damage is toned down, then snipers need some mobility or some better defensives. I know this will never happen, so honestly, I am content with them having slightly too high damage on their big hits. It's very situational, and manageable IMO.

 

 

5. Madness Sorc:

 

This dot-spreading machine is overperforming with how easy it spreads it's dots, and how much damage they do. Fluff damage? Maybe. But, it kills and puts a lot of pressure on healers.

 

Either make the dots cost more power so they can't throw dots everywhere with no worries of running out of power, ever, or make the dot-spread more complex so it's not so easy to spread. I don't think reducing the damage is a good idea because heals are able to counter them fairly easily as it is now.

 

 

6. Deception Assassin:

 

Low slash is too powerful. This class already enjoys tons of CC immunities along with tons of CC to be used on enemies. A four second mez, on a 15 second cooldown is stupid. Either make the ability have a short 4m range, or lengthen cooldown time on it! A 4 second mez should not be on a 15 sec cooldown with a 30m range!

 

 

 

UNDER-PERFORMING CLASSES THAT NEED ADJUSTED:

 

 

1. Merc Healer:

 

This healer doesn't manage AE damage as well as the other two, but with the above changes it wouldn't matter. The main issue this class suffers from is lack of ability to deal with focused damage. It needs a way to break out of combat and force a switch when focused, as both other healers get.

 

If this doesn't happen, then the class needs to have even better innate defensives to deal with the constant barrage of never-ending damage they receive. Propulsion should automatically give the healing merc immunity to leaps, interupts and CC for 6 seconds. Making the merc have to choose this as a choice in their top tier of utilities is redundant because, NO ONE will pick it as there are WAY more important choices that have to be picked instead!

 

An alternative way would be to create a new ability; after propulsion some sort of overload shield is thrown up and absorbs all damage for 8 seconds and renders the merc immune to all CC (similar to god-bubble that sorcs get).

 

 

2. Lethality Operative:

 

This class has the most retarded dot-spread mechanic in the game. The dots hit like wet noodles and it's burst takes too long to set up and hits like a pillow. Needs more hitting power, either on it's burst or make it's dots actually hurt!

 

 

3. Lightning Sorc:

 

This dps needs better burst, period. When a healer can simply ignore it's burst and continue healing others as well as themselves while this dps targets them, you know it's weak. Just bump up it's burst please.

 

 

4. IO Merc:

 

Having the second most retarded dot-spreading mechanic in the game, this class has potential to be decent. The problem is, it really has an ability bloat imo. You have to load up so many dots to get all your procs rolling and all your damages moving that you end up out of power after one complete rotation!

 

Maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but this class runs out of power so fast, and to spread it's dots, too many other abilities have to be layered to maximize their damage before dot-spread can even be started. It's just very clunky, and needs to be redone, the whole damaging system of this class is bad.

 

 

5. Pyro PT:

 

I have to admit, my experience of playing this spec is nil. I only can speak from the perspective of fighting them, but it's pretty obvious they are underperforming because I can't tell you one player that plays this spec in PVP and makes an impression on me. They seem to have no burst, and no survivability. Others could give better feedback on what exactly they need.

 

 

6. Virulence Sniper:

 

This class was in a good spot prior to 4.0, after that, their dots hit like wet noodles and their burst with cull is utterly pathetic. Totally unplayable in PVP now, complete garbage and gutted for no reason!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=856239

[Lhancelot]

 

For me it's obvious that the Op spoke about balance wz in general. (when i read it's my feeling)

 

 

Yeah, this is true. I just made blanket statements regarding changes that were pretty obvious to me and what I felt could add improvement to our gameplay in PVP.

 

Obviously I would miss some especially some I am not really familiar with so much, like marauders or tank sins because I have not played them at cap level, and also some things others may feel are not needed or are needed whereas I might not agree. I expect that tbh.

 

I think majority of PVPers agree that PT burst is too much as it stands, and healing sorcs are absolutely bonkers with their healing output. Hopefully they both get "fixed" soon.

[Lhancelot]

So, you're better at playing a sage healer than a merc, which actually makes perfect sense since you have more experience playing the class and merc healers are simply not designed to heal through the current high burst meta dps without a tank; you're also playing on a server where people think that 2.5k dps is good dps and it's possible to beat an 8 man premade running double sage heals and two tanks if you have 3-4 decent players.

 

So let's look at the one game mode that is somewhat balanced, team ranked, if healing (sorcs in particular) is OP then two equally matched teams should go to acid most of the time, but that is not happening, people are still dying in team ranked even with a tank and running sorc healers.

 

People who aren't pushing these classes anywhere near their full potential have a skewed perspective on balance, when dps struggle to hit 1-2k dps of course healers (and definitely sorc healers) are going to appear OP, and if you are only pulling 3-4k hps you're going to think that healing is really hard when you go against dps players who pump out 3.5-4k+ dps.

 

In reference to the harbinger records thread I think you'll find that an Operative healer currently holds the top hps spot, and many of the crazy hps games posted by sorcs are either healer/tank heavy games, or two teams that are intentionally farming numbers.

 

Ok, for one I honestly think I am fairly good on my merc healer in fact I think I am equally good on it when comparing it to my sage healer.

 

The fact is, the sage is easier. The fact is, the sage also has a much higher healing ceiling than the mercenary in all situations.

 

What I can do on the merc, I can do easier and more productively on the sage and it's not because I am better on the sage.

 

I have 500 wins in pvp on my commando healer (who knows how many losses rofl), and 800 wins on my sage healer. Just wanted to point out I think I have a fair amount of experience on both healing classes.

 

As for The Ebon Hawk, and players being so subpar compared to pve, pvp servers... Maybe you are right. Maybe TEH players and myself are all scrubby and it's not right of me to judge my experiences in the warzones on TEH server and think I have any clue about what needs balanced.

 

I disagree though, and I disagree with this because I played on Bastion, I played on Harbinger, and TEH. And, I do not see any marked difference between the performances of the players in the reg warzones.

 

I saw "bads" on Bastion, I seen "bads" on Harbinger, and I see "bads" on TEH. It doesn't matter what server you go to. I also have seen really awesome pvpers wherever I have gone.

 

Now, maybe ranked is different, and I am sure it is. But I rarely refer to ranked gameplay because I have only played ranked significantly for 1 season, and I never played group ranked, not once.

 

You say that group ranked is the best place to judge class balance, but IMO that's not fair either. You want to judge the class balance by referring to the least played "game mode" of all of them... Honestly, only a sliver of the players on swtor play group ranked.

 

Class balance cannot be judged in 4v4 arena group ranked and compared to 8v8 regs because the environments, objectives, and interplay between 8v8 compared to the arena 4v4 creates such a vast difference in total gameplay.

 

The reason stalemates rarely occur in group ranked is not because of some superior skill the players have in group ranked or because the classes all become balanced because people use voice... It's because there are much different goals and variables between the two different game-types. 4v4 is kill the other team, while 8v8 has more moving parts and require objectives to be completed for the win. You just cannot compare group ranked with 8v8 regs imo.

 

I have to chuckle though, when you make it sound like the entire server of Ebon Hawk underperforms in PVP, and you even hint that due to my lack of ability to push a class to it's maximum ceiling skews my perception of what needs nerfed or not.

 

It's fine though, I find it humorous because I disagree but I also can admit that there could be truth to what you say and that you are right. Nothing you have written makes me want to change my mind on this though, as it stands.

[Lalainnia]

Pretty sure what alex is saying is that if sorc heals get nerfed and PT burst /MM burst doesn't get done at the same time no healer will be able to deal with it without a tank, and in a 1v1 case guessing both players are of the same skill it would highly favor those 2 specs from just sheer killing power opposed to smart cc useage. So if sorc heals get nerfed MM and PT's will also need to be nerfed at exactly the same time or your going to have an awful time.

 

Also can't forget about operatives and while they may not have the highest single target burst (still very strong) they have hands down the best sustained 4 double kolto probed targets that last longer then previously plus kolto cloud alone is amazing hps and all these heal hands free so you able to hard cast or surgical probe, the main difficulty about operatives is upkeep and tbh it's easier to upkeep probes while putting out great healing thanks to the refresh with surgical compared to smash bubble stun dark maul sins era where their healing was just plain and simple to powerful.So honestly something on operatives would prob have to get toned down if changes to sorcs heals Ap pt MM sniper were done something would have to be done to op heals specifically at it's highest level of play which honestly just has to do with the player being amazing. Something to replace would be the invigorated buff they apply with cloud 3% healing and switch it with armor the 3% healing bufff is easily the best of the 3.

 

Like always though would need actual dev interaction which isn't a thing.

[Lundorff]

What if tanks were not allowed to guard healers? Perhaps that would fix some of the problems.

[James_Mcturney]

you never try to be honest speaking on your class i guess, it's ok, only the brave does.

 

-force camouflage grants immune to snare and roots, if you play the utility.

 

- mad dash grants a immune to numerous roots. and breaks a roots if you take the utility.

 

- predation breaks roots and give a undecent mobility if you take the utility

 

3 good choices, pick 2, or your problem.

 

- the 6sec immune cc is tier 1, srly even for a 3min cooldown you can try if you play rage to add a 12sec for an important 1vs1.

 

- carnage's burst is really good (i play the spec,you're just like a berserk in total blast mode imo, even against a PT), rage 2 hit burst is strong.

 

+ a 90% reduction to accuracy, wich is clearly underevaluated.

+ undying rage (although i agree that it's difficult to use the heroic because the other i quoted are too strong. or maybe for your ranked awesome 4vs4 in a box)

+ cloack of pain and an aoe mezz.

 

For me it's obvious that the Op spoke about balance wz in general. (when i read it's my feeling)

 

yes a big majority of players play warzones. arenas srly, LOL i stop it after season 3, it's a joke and boring. so maybe maraudeurs are not in top 3, so sorry for you (and i will wait the board of s7 to be sure).

 

In warzones, maraudeur is OP. 2 in a group is clearly a big advantage (and not just for predation), after sage/sorc healers.

 

You said all the words: if you play the utility, also, transcendence, like i said before, requires 2 utilities.

aoe mezz: many classes have it (and they have it on target, which is much better than 5 meters around the sent), also you can buy/make a mezz grenade, which can be used by any class... and only a stupid person would stack 2 mezz. If one aoe mezz didn't do the work, 2 probably wont also.... people will get white-barred and cc immune, only luck would guarantee that all of them didn't have a cc breaker out of CD. This devaluates the sentinel mezz.

 

I agreed that transcendence should be changed, imo it should have a much smaller aoe range (15 instead of 40, maybe a bit less movespeed like 45 + 30 from utility, same as powertechs) but give more benefits to the sentinel, a good one would be remove the baseline transcendence requiring 30 centering and make it 30 secs cooldown always, therefore freeing 1 utility. Currently every sentinel picks both transcendence utilities if they are smart in regulars and even in ranked. Also my ranked arguments (which should be more important than regular, because, you know, it's ranked?!) can be applied to regulars, a sentinel can be burst down from stealth-cc even if they have a good healer/tank, simply mezz them while bursting the sentinel down; in a competitive "regular match" (lmao xD), momments like these could be crucial.

The 90% accuracy reduction barely works, i have to test it yet, but i believe it doesn't affect powertechs or sorcs and doesn't affect much the other classes too because they don't use many meele/ranged accuracy atacks (the skill says it reduces only meele/ranged).

What is the deal with cloak of pain? with it the defense is decent without it its trash.

Carnage is not even near powertech burst... powertech have 25% crit chance for 15 secs, + 7 missiles, + 2nd the biggest autocrit in the game (only losing to sniper?) that now applies a dot, plus a poison stab-dot, plus you can put 2 delayed damage grenades to pop at the same time your autocrit cellburst pops. Which is around 35k+ damage in 1 global cooldown. buahahaha... not even close.

 

What if tanks were not allowed to guard healers? Perhaps that would fix some of the problems.

Lol why so drastic? balance is about slight changes, currently guarding transfer 50% of the incoming damage, what about of 30% instead... easy fix. Edited December 1, 2015 by James_Mcturney

[Technohic]

Nerf burst heals. Nerf burst dps. Nerf invulnerability and CC/ movement impairment resistance DCDs. Nerf protection and increae sustainable damage and mitigation. Just change the over the top peaks and valley meta that we have now.

[Seyyah]

not that i am saying PTs are bad... or Juggernaut... or even marauder (to some extent)

 

But while talking of MOBILITY and HUGE burst... have you ever seen a concealment operative? Deception assassin? bursting you down with like 3 buttons? and rolling/phasing away like nothing happened?

 

Yes there is a huge class balance issue in this game... thats a given...

 

But the main problem is not the dps burst or mobility actually (yes there are some skills in some classes that do astonishing amount of damage)... with the latest state of healers the brokenly OP classes became even more unbareable...

 

(not to mention two of those broken op classes are healers themselves as well)

[James_Mcturney]

So, you're better at playing a sage healer than a merc, which actually makes perfect sense since you have more experience playing the class and merc healers are simply not designed to heal through the current high burst meta dps without a tank; you're also playing on a server where people think that 2.5k dps is good dps and it's possible to beat an 8 man premade running double sage heals and two tanks if you have 3-4 decent players.

 

So let's look at the one game mode that is somewhat balanced, team ranked, if healing (sorcs in particular) is OP then two equally matched teams should go to acid most of the time, but that is not happening, people are still dying in team ranked even with a tank and running sorc healers.

 

People who aren't pushing these classes anywhere near their full potential have a skewed perspective on balance, when dps struggle to hit 1-2k dps of course healers (and definitely sorc healers) are going to appear OP, and if you are only pulling 3-4k hps you're going to think that healing is really hard when you go against dps players who pump out 3.5-4k+ dps.

 

In reference to the harbinger records thread I think you'll find that an Operative healer currently holds the top hps spot, and many of the crazy hps games posted by sorcs are either healer/tank heavy games, or two teams that are intentionally farming numbers.

 

Awesome! game is perfectly balanced! no need for patches, EVER. AGAIN.

 

ALSO NERF OPERATIVES!

[Selout]

Hrm,

 

Here is my response...

 

1. Train PT/Vanguard's in to the dirt. Force defensive cd's then swap back to them after and their dmg is pretty much cut in half if they are running away (they can't be up close to spam magnetic blast or use rocket punch to supplement their burst). Their defensive's are on long cds which makes them easy swap targets. As someone else stated, by the same logic shouldn't snipers and merc's be more of a priority for nerfs due to insane crit dmg? I don't think so. They lack a healing debuff (snipers have same burst, same crit dmg, way better surv, a healing debuff, a ranged cc/interrupt and a group damage reduction). PT's are about "just right" on what they bring to the team as far as support from a melee'ish AC. Taunt, carb, grip... all useful but not op at all. Don't get me wrong, I was on the PT "hate train" too a few weeks ago. Now, I don't have an issue with them what-so-ever. Class stacking multiple PT's, that's a whole other ball of wax but tbh, I feel mara/sniper or pt/sniper are WAY stronger dps combo's for any 4v4 team with pt/pt being behind those combo's by a good amount.

 

2. I actually agree with you on this one. I don't think, however they should be nerfed too much. Maybe a reduction on the size of their bubble while bringing the other 2 healing classes in line with the sorc/seer healer healing throughput. Also, barrier is what really makes them so good along with phase walk. If the other classes had access to similar abilities, they'd be strong too. You simply don't have to be as good of a healer, position-wise, playing a sorc/seer healer right now (not naming names but just watch some of the twitch streamers /shutter). They simply have too many "idiot proof" buttons to press atm.

 

3. Jugg/Guardian are great 1v1 classes, but as others have stated who cares, hehe. This game shouldn't be balanced around 1v1's. In the team game they are just ok. I feel mara is actually way better in the team game, but I digress. They don't bring a healing debuff so their 15% crit dmg bonus from the class (as opposed to the 10% mara's get) and 50% dmg stacking buff on next ability when snared is warranted. I think they have their niche, mainly solo q due to strong self-healing.

 

4. While I agree with the burst being really high on MM sniper/SS slinger, I do not agree that they need a nerf to dmg. I feel like they could use a nerf to their close-range defensive's. As someone else said, they really have too many tools up close all the while being a fierce long-distance class while bringing insane CC and team support along with a healing debuff (as stated before) all while not being charge'able or grip'able. Just too many "outs" for a ranged class. Perhaps getting rid of their absorb or longer evasion cd or longer cd on roll or a minimum distance dead-zone for all their knock/roots. A good sniper/gs can make swapping to them almost impossible to hide and once a team finally gets there, MM/SS's have some of the strongest close-range defensive's of any DPS in the game.

 

5. I honestly have zero issue with DOT sorc/seer atm. (No, I don't play a sorc. I play a mara/sent as my main spec but I play them all as alts) This spec really shines in regs but come 4v4's they fall off big time IMO.

 

6. Deception sin/shadow is another class I think is fine for now. While the new low-slash is really good, imagine if they didn't have it with the force speed nerf. Seems like it would be over-kill on the nerfs.

 

As for buffs, I would hold off until the over-tuned ac's (sorc/seer healer and MM/SS close-in defensives) are looked at. Don't want the pendulum to swing too far by doing nerfs and buffs at the same time unless it means giving the other 2 healing ac's more "idiot proof" buttons to press. We are headed toward another Op/Scound healer situation where everyone will have to roll a sorc/seer healer if they want to be viable as a healer, just like rated WZ's pre-S1.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Selout

[Dinnake]

The easiest way to nerf both PT and Sorcs is to make Commandos/Mercs viable. Their ranged DPS along with Net is the perfect counter to both PT and Sorcs. This game, much like every other MMO, has a rock, paper, scissor design to balance. Take away rock and scissors becomes OP.

[Hiro_Wildfire]

not that i am saying PTs are bad... or Juggernaut... or even marauder (to some extent)

 

But while talking of MOBILITY and HUGE burst... have you ever seen a concealment operative? Deception assassin? bursting you down with like 3 buttons? and rolling/phasing away like nothing happened?

 

Yes there is a huge class balance issue in this game... thats a given...

 

But the main problem is not the dps burst or mobility actually (yes there are some skills in some classes that do astonishing amount of damage)... with the latest state of healers the brokenly OP classes became even more unbareable...

 

(not to mention two of those broken op classes are healers themselves as well)

 

Are... you seriously complaining about concealment burst? At the moment. After that 20% surge nerf? Or even compairing a deception assassin and concealment to a AP PT's burst? Not to mention their sustain's one of the highest in the game.