Nerf supporters are so happy because...

[crimsiden]

people have responded to the toggle off bs like 100 freaken times people just ignore the posts There is no magical one healing skill to remove that balances the companion, and even if there was it doesn't take away from the real problem that the companions were immortal . I played around with companion skills alot pre nerf, and either I removed too many skills and they were useless or too few and they were still op. and even with all skills remove they could still tank 3 gold star mobs like it was nothing, and still did more damage in an auto attack than most do in their entire rotation.Lets not get into tanking companions, who were by far the most ridiculous or dps companions who did more damage than the top players on the server

 

Ultimately saying people need to nerf themselves to make a game a freaken game is ridiculous, Companions were op as hell and needed to be balance, it made this mmo easier than any game I have ever played in my life. IF you think easy leveling is good leveling, talk to wow players where they can hit a mob two times and it kills over. Easy is fun for maybe the first 1 or 2 months but it gets boring fast and just creates more problems. And achievements start to mean absolutely nothing when every one can easily complete them.

Edited November 23, 2015 by crimsiden

[Taramayne]

If you wanted to go back and do DK heroics at lvl 60 before, you'd get NOTHING out of it. No xp, crappy credit reward etc, plus, I'd be about as fun as watching paint dry.

 

The only reason I can think of for doing that was before SoR when they could net you a quick dozen or so basic comms. I did that myself when I needed some to buy mods for alts. Since basics became much more plentiful after SoR that reason kinda went away.

[Kaedusz]

See the italics above.

 

My point is that I keep seeing these comments where folks can't seem to understand why others might want to play differently than they do, or might like to have an easy game as opposed to a "challenge".

 

Yeah, some of us DO like it faceroll easy sometimes. It's a GAME, not a second job. There is harder content and group content for those who want it. Companions have NO effect on that part.

 

There's no one great be-all end-all solution, but at least as it was those who wanted more challenge had some options to make that so. Making things more tedious and frustrating for everyone is not a good solution, IMO.

 

This whole ''real life'' argument is a fallacy. Have you considered that actually playing the way pro nerf people are saying is relaxing and fun and this is what actual escapism is. And dumbing it down is not relaxing, but boring and making you fall asleep on the chair.

Not being faceroll easy doesn't mean it becomes a second job, but it helps it fulfill its purpose as entertainment.

 

Another thing. You are taking too seriously the words striving and achievment. They are used only in a gaming slang sense, not some real life-like ambition horse ****. There has to be a sense of progression which requires actual gameplay + time investment. That's how rpgs and mmorpgs work. In such games you develop a character, that's the way it goes.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Kaedusz

[geschmonz]

Its nothing new that the elitists want exclusivity. They want to reduce accessibiltiy. They want content and the best rewards only for themself.

 

Based on nothing but envy and hatred.

[Kaedusz]

Its nothing new that the elitists want exclusivity. They want to reduce accessibiltiy. They want content and the best rewards only for themself.

 

Based on nothing but envy and hatred.

 

Since when is this a question about accessibility and elitism.

This is not a PvP or PvE discussion about raiding.

 

Apparently pro nerf people can't be bothered to heal between fights and seem to think pulling only 1 group of mobs at a given time, during the 2+ quests is a big deal. That's all this is.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Taramayne]

Another thing. You are taking too seriously the words striving and achievment. They are used only in a gaming slang sense, not some real life-like ambition horse ****. There has to be a sense of progression which requires actual gameplay + time investment. That's how rpgs and mmorpgs work.

 

I think you missed my point. It's a GAME. I don't need to "take it seriously"...

 

I HAVE considered that some other folks like to play differently than I do, and that's just fine. However their fun is not necessarily MY fun.

 

My issue is with saying there "HAS TO BE"" this sense of progression. Maybe you need it, but I don't.

 

There's no "fallacy" here, it's just my opinion; it's as valid as any other opinion out there, as long as you remember that opinions are the only thing on these forums.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Taramayne

[unibim]

pro players in high end gear can now get the “one for all” achievement. Ridiculous and unbelievable,

 

Thats the point of achievements... To be hard to achieve... And then feel good after getting it...

 

Did it without healing companion somewhere in first week after exp launch ( comp was tank, but died in second minute of fight), fought for 10 minutes... Felt SOOOOO GOOOOD after getting achievement.

Edited November 23, 2015 by unibim

[crimsiden]

See the italics above.

 

My point is that I keep seeing these comments where folks can't seem to understand why others might want to play differently than they do, or might like to have an easy game as opposed to a "challenge".

 

Yeah, some of us DO like it faceroll easy sometimes. It's a GAME, not a second job. There is harder content and group content for those who want it. Companions have NO effect on that part.

 

There's no one great be-all end-all solution, but at least as it was those who wanted more challenge had some options to make that so. Making things more tedious and frustrating for everyone is not a good solution, IMO.

Only thing that sets SWTOR apart from generic mmo # 2000 is its single player challenges. In every other mmo leveling puts me to freaken sleep, and all single player content feels like a chore because its brain dead easy and has no substance. In SWTOR you have story and single player content like star fortress/heroic that actually make you think, take that away and they become like wow dailies.

[lanawinst]

Even after the nerf, the planetary heroics you had to do were still about as simple to solo as it was to do normal class quests before 4.0 .All the nerf did was make it so you actually have to do something. As in, you can't just sit back and chill while Lana or whoever does all the dirty work for you. All it did, was make you put some effort into it - how is that boring?

 

Again, I'm not going to make a big deal if comps get op again, I just can't wrap my head around how the nerf is such a big deal to some people.

 

Saw an argument a few times that it's because of the 'lvl sync', but again - if this is your case - the heroics are about as easy now, as it was to do class missions before (meaning you can easily pass them) + you get awesome/appropriate rewards for doing them! If you wanted to go back and do DK heroics at lvl 60 before, you'd get NOTHING out of it. No xp, crappy credit reward etc, plus, I'd be about as fun as watching paint dry.

 

If we're talking about the planetary heroics, I disagree with you. Neither am I making more effort nor find it more challenging than before the nerfing: all it did was to make it take even longer to achieve, hence more boring and tedious than before. And because of that, the rewards are not worth the time spent honestly... The money we get for it is ridiculously low, I don't need any xp, I already out-level everything by a lot, and there's no more use for out-leveling anything right now thanks to the level-sync! The only useful thing we get from heroics are the Alliance supply crates, and that's about it.

 

The star fortresses are an entire other discussion, because I didn't manage to solo the heroics before the nerf and I wasn't that badly equipped (116-120), plus I've been running ops and learned thanks to that to have a good handling of my DPS and its abilities. Now? I might try it with my healer when he will be equipped and at the right level, but my DPS has no shot of ever soloing it.

Edited November 23, 2015 by lanawinst

[Shwarzchild]

Its nothing new that the elitists want exclusivity. They want to reduce accessibiltiy. They want content and the best rewards only for themself.

 

Based on nothing but envy and hatred.

 

Turn the light back on then. The Dark Side will loose power and you will feel less envy, and hatred.

[Kaedusz]

My issue is with saying there "HAS TO BE"" this sense of progression. Maybe you need it, but I don't.

There has to be because of the type of game this is. If you dislike the whole concept of quest-> working on the quest -> reward, you are playing the wrong game, my friend.

[geschmonz]

Since when is this a question about accessibility and elitism.

 

Because they cant play their content anymore if their healer companion does not work properly. So they lose the access to that content.

 

And elitism is the "Its all your fault if you dont manage it"-thing.

 

This is not a PvP or PvE discussion about raiding.

 

Apparently pro nerf people can't be bothered to heal between fights and seem to think pulling only 1 group of mobs at a given time, during the 2+ quests is a big deal. That's all this is.

 

No, this is a discussion about the lack of arguments from the pro-nerf faction. And the lack of arguments is visible if you ask them why bioware has to nerf it for everyone while options are possible.

[JessieLoverRxE]

Its nothing new that the elitists want exclusivity. They want to reduce accessibiltiy. They want content and the best rewards only for themself.

 

Based on nothing but envy and hatred.

 

People who put more effort into something should of course get rewarded for it...what's the point in accomplishing in-game achievements such as 'one and only' or what's it called, if you know everyone else can also accomplish it in a snap? An achievement that can be achieved by anyone is not a true achievement. It's worthless.

 

The only person who sounds sorta envious right now is you. And what content? Everything that you're supposed to do can still be done. Just, like I said, you need to put some effort into it. And that's supposed to be fun. If you can't pass something, just take a moment to figure out the problem, maybe ask /look for help if you need it, and then once you actually finish the content you failed before you'll get a really cool feeling. It pays off.

[Taramayne]

There has to be because of the type of game this is. If you dislike the whole concept of quest-> working on the quest -> reward, you are playing the wrong game, my friend.

 

I think we're talking about two different things here. What I mean by "sense of progression" refers to the folks who think everything needs to be challenging, to give the feeling of accomplishment at beating a difficult quest objective; that sort of thing.

 

What you just referred to above is the basic MMO structure which isn't an issue with me. Making that structure unnecessarily tedious or frustrating, IS.

[DisIzMe]

Its nothing new that the elitists want exclusivity. They want to reduce accessibiltiy. They want content and the best rewards only for themself.

 

Based on nothing but envy and hatred.

 

Exclusivity? Reduce accessibility? This is hilariously wrong. You have access to exactly same content as others ,but if you are poor at it you will get less rewards. This is how games always worked.

Hell,this is how real life works. In US,in North Korea and in Norway.

You should not be entitled to everything because you achieved existing. Put some effort in.

Edited November 23, 2015 by DisIzMe

[geschmonz]

People who put more effort into something should of course get rewarded for it...

 

Yes, with special items. Or something like a special snowflake mount. But surely not exclusive content.

 

what's the point in accomplishing in-game achievements such as 'one and only' or what's it called, if you know everyone else can also accomplish it in a snap? An achievement that can be achieved by anyone is not a true achievement. It's worthless.

 

Dont hyperbole. The achievement is still a challenge if you nerf h2+ modes for console buffed players.

 

The only person who sounds sorta envious right now is you.

 

For what should i be envious? That some people have no life but the best epics? You know, i got my epics in real life and not something virtual as like a computer game.

 

And what content? Everything that you're supposed to do can still be done.

 

"It is only your fault if you dont manage it". So much for elitism. "Give the people cake if they have no bread"..

 

Always the same pattern. And i doubt you really are any kind of skilled gamer.

 

This community is full of hypocrisy.

[geschmonz]

Exclusivity? Reduce accessibility? This is hilariously wrong. You have access to exactly same contest as others ,but if you are poor at it you will get less rewards. This is how games always worked.

 

RPGs give the best character progression rewards, but rarely gate content behind challenges. Thats a bad habit, in special in a MMORPG, where everyone has the same difficulty level.

 

Hell,this is how real life works. In US,in North Korea and in Norway.

 

Here we are, with the real life and capitalism starring as the apple, and a computer game as the orange.

 

You should not be entitled to everything because you achieved existing. Put some effort in.

 

Elitism.

[ryoutou]

Its nothing new that the elitists want exclusivity. They want to reduce accessibiltiy. They want content and the best rewards only for themself.

 

Based on nothing but envy and hatred.

 

What rot

 

Not wanting a trivial game has nothing to do with anything else but not wanting a trivial game. The very strange stuff people read into says a lot more about the people doing it than anything else.

[OniGanon]

Yes, with special items. Or something like a special snowflake mount. But surely not exclusive content.

 

And which SOLO content is being excluded from anyone, exactly?

[geschmonz]

And which SOLO content is being excluded from anyone, exactly?

 

The level of the challenge had been raised extraordinary after the companions were nerfed.

 

Please amuse me with another "Its only their fault if they dont manage it".

Edited November 23, 2015 by geschmonz

[DisIzMe]

RPGs give the best character progression rewards, but rarely gate content behind challenges. Thats a bad habit, in special in a MMORPG, where everyone has the same difficulty level.

Here we are, with the real life and capitalism starring as the apple, and a computer game as the orange.

Elitism.

What content is gated? You have access to all the content in game. If you fail to succeed in that content it is your problem but you are on similar terms as everyone else.

Or you call achievements a content? Because it is beyond stupid. I want my gold medal at 100m sprinting! I do it in 1h and people do it in less then 10 sec,damn elitists.

[JessieLoverRxE]

If we're talking about the planetary heroics, I disagree with you. Neither am I making more effort nor find it more challenging than before the nerfing: all it did was to make it take even longer to achieve, hence more boring and tedious than before. And because of that, the rewards are not worth the time spent honestly... The money we get for it is ridiculously low, I don't need any xp, I already out-level everything by a lot, and there's no more use for out-leveling anything right now thanks to the level-sync! The only useful thing we get from heroics are the Alliance supply crates, and that's about it.

 

The star fortresses are an entire other discussion, because I didn't manage to solo the heroics before the nerf and I wasn't that badly equipped (116-120), plus I've been running ops and learned thanks to that to have a good handling of my DPS and its abilities. Now? I might try it with my healer when he will be equipped and at the right level, but my DPS has no shot of ever soloing it.

 

It's not really 'challenging' now (apologies if that's how I actually worded it), it just pushes you to actually DO SOMETHING, as in, you actually have to press some buttons and not just let your companion do everything for you etc. While it does last a BIT longer, I can't see how that's more boring then actually doing nothing (Unless you're playing a sorc or something and just keep hitting the same ability over and over again because you're already op as f***).

 

If other people say it can be done then it probably can. Even with a dps. Come on, it's a video game? What's wrong with overcoming a little challenge?

[geschmonz]

Not wanting a trivial game has nothing to do with anything else but not wanting a trivial game.

 

A lot of people want a trivial game, as it seems. So tell me, who is right?

[geschmonz]

What content is gated?

 

The completion of the star fortress destruction quest chain.

 

You have access to all the content in game. If you fail to succeed in that content it is your problem but you are on similar terms as everyone else.

 

Elitism.

 

Because it is beyond stupid. I want my gold medal at 100m sprinting! I do it in 1h and people do it in less then 10 sec,damn elitists.

 

The difference is that you still may play 100m sprinting. What you ask for is to allow casual sprinters only 50m runs. As they dont deserve to run the whole 100m.

Edited November 23, 2015 by geschmonz

[ryoutou]

A lot of people want a trivial game, as it seems. So tell me, who is right?

 

I have no idea - both are, because both spend their money to get what they want.

 

It isn't a right vs wrong, and it certainly isn't something to get bent out of shape over.

 

It also isn't worth demonizing people who have a different opinion than you do. "Envy" and "hate"? Over how much challenge or lack thereof there is in a video game?

 

Jumped the shark, this whole thing has.