Nerf supporters are so happy because...

[geschmonz]

Much like the Revan fight from SoR is different from the operation one. If we take the game and slice it into sections, there will inevitably be portions that require different effort levels from the player. To make sure that those effort levels are adequately compensated the reward structure is different. Just like gear drops from a tactical flashpoint differ from those of a hard mode flashpoint, and further more the gear drops from Korriban are different than that of Voss, or story mode operations drops are lesser than hard mode or nightmare.

 

Once again.. gating a large amount of content behind challenges in a casual gamer MMORPG is just the wrong path, as every player pays to see the same amount of content. And as every player has to pay the same amount to play the same content. At the end, you get content paid by many and seen by a few only.

 

The population of this game is diverse.

 

While the typical mmorpg has around 60-65% solo players, only about 10% who complete the lowest organized raid difficulty and a few only who organize in raiding guilds.

 

There is something like target group sizes. And if i would create a game which had less than 10% raiders, i would not create raids only for endgame. And i would not gate expensive content behind challenges.

 

If you want to run that 100m sprint instead know that you are entering a potentially different slice of the game's pie that many other players enjoy as is and it very well may ask something different of you than the piece you usually find yourself in.

 

Thats just wrong. The content could be available to everyone, while the item rewards could be limited to challenges only. That works like a charm, and just think about the idea if the retention of the casual gamer base could be extremely raised if they also would be able to solo operations (with lower level rewards).

 

As more accessible content is and as more people are able to play content as bigger player retention will raise as less engaged players are. Only a minority is very engaged, so it just doesnt matter if some hardcore gamers think everything is "too easy".. it's the big number that keeps a game alive, while the small hardcore gamer target group just is very vocal and some of them even toxic, as they demand everything for themself.

[lanawinst]

"Because i can everyone can".

 

I just meant to disapprove the notion that players who can do HM ops were elites. And the silly notion that people who can do HM ops, and so-called "elites" could solo the star forteress +2, and are pro-nerf. I'm against the nerf. Plus as I said on my other post (I edited it afterwards) it just means that I'm well equipped, in good company and that I know how to work in a team. But my character's flaws (DPS with no healing,...) makes it not as viable when it comes to solo anything as other classes.

Edited November 23, 2015 by lanawinst

[Qouivandes]

Did this really need the 10 billionth thread to be made?

im gonna just go with this. there is just nothing more anyone can add from either side...or even the middle.

[geschmonz]

Thats part of heroic mechanics. It is supposed to be HARD. Thats why it is not solo.

 

It was soloable before the patch, and still is soloable, and is also meant to be soloable considering Erics comment. It just adresses a lot less people for solo play after the nerf, which ist adressing the elitists only which want everything for themself.

 

So that people who cannot manage the hard mechanics will not need to and will be able to finish their 100m - star fortress quest chain in solo chain.

 

Sure they need it, as its part of the alliance progression. It's actually starting as solo player quest and may be completed as solo player quest. And its completion allows you to see another part of the story.

 

I will tell you a bigger secret - hard mode and NIM operations all have additional mechanics and some have additional bonus bosses too.

 

Special encounters in raids for the highest difficulty is quite normal. But it usually isnt part of the lore and story or is being started as a solo player quest.

 

They are hard to beat. I never did some and probably never will ,it is above my abilities.And i still have access to the content. I just cant deal with it. Lots of people can.

 

People want to complete what they started. Bioware defacto removed the ability for many to solo h2+ star fortress while people where actively progressing through it.

 

But you demand to lower even the hardest bits of the game to your own level,while grasping at "elitism vs poor me" straws.

 

I demand nothing. As i cant demand anything. I just tell you my opinion how a good MMORPG should be designed. And that means: Everyone is able to see every content, but only challenges give you the best gear.

 

People do not have common denominator so some are better at stuff then others. This is the way of things.

 

Thats because i ask to add options instead of removing gameplay.

Edited November 23, 2015 by geschmonz

[Neoforcer]

Wow! Your companions were facerolling PVP and Operations?! That's amazing. I'd love to see some videos of that.

 

Also, if all that awesome facerolling of ALL CONTENT in the game was too much for you, why couldn't you set them to another mode, and/or toggle some of their abilities? Or just disable them altogether? Did Bioware send some henchmen to your house to loom over you as you played so that you couldn't? AGAIN? Man, those stupid henchmen, I tells ya.

 

I boils down to this they do not want a challenge at all because even after the change it was still face roll content what they wanted was to be a special snowflake look this is easy for me hahaha oh you don't have the cheezement well you suck then. That's there reason for the nerf support they want to be known as the only special snowflake that has NIM Tos achievement. So they can rub it in the players that plays the game just to have some thing to do and see a movie based game and imagine the star wars universe for fun. Not work a 9 to 5 swtor Job to be the best around

[OniGanon]

So your objection is that GROUP content is only for groups. And this is somehow elitism.

 

O... kay...

 

I can't say I would really object if there was some Solo Mode added for the Ops and remaining FPs, but uh...

 

What the flying fierfek has that got to do with the Companion nerfs?

[Shwarzchild]

Once again.. gating a large amount of content behind challenges in a casual gamer MMORPG is just the wrong path, as every player pays to see the same amount of content. And as every player has to pay the same amount to play the same content. At the end, you get content paid by many and seen by a few only.

 

Specifically what content is gated? With SOR were you not able to do the prequel flashpoints in solo mode as well as group? Were you able to also fight Revan and stop the threat in solo mode as you did in an operation setting? Can you not run a star fortress in solo mode as well as heroic? The truth unfortunately is that the story is not gated as you say. The ONLY story content that I think is gated is Oricon with the dread masters since you can not actually face them in a solo mode capacity. At the end of the day, you get content that many pay for that many can experience in a variety of ways that allows them to conquer the presumed "threat" proposed.

 

While the typical mmorpg has around 60-65% solo players, only about 10% who complete the lowest organized raid difficulty and a few only who organize in raiding guilds.

 

There is something like target group sizes. And if i would create a game which had less than 10% raiders, i would not create raids only for endgame. And i would not gate expensive content behind challenges.

 

This has nothing to do with the content you're claiming is gated. Moreover you don't have to be at end game to have access to end game like group content i.e tactical flashpoints aka mini dungeons.

 

 

Thats just wrong. The content could be available to everyone, while the item rewards could be limited to challenges only. That works like a charm, and just think about the idea if the retention of the casual gamer base could be extremely raised if they also would be able to solo operations (with lower level rewards).

This is already how it is. Star fortresses go even farther and drop the same decorations as the heroic version

 

As more accessible content is and as more people are able to play content as bigger player retention will raise as less engaged players are. Only a minority is very engaged, so it just doesnt matter if some hardcore gamers think everything is "too easy".. it's the big number that keeps a game alive, while the small hardcore gamer target group just is very vocal and some of them even toxic, as they demand everything for themself

 

How is the content not accessible? Can you not do the flashpoints solo? Can you not do star fortress solo? Can you not do heroics solo? What content can you not do that people do not have access to?.

 

Answers to your post in italics and bold. You have a hatred for people who like to play this game at a high level, and I'm not here to tell you to change that or anything. You're free to hold a prejudice. What I think is a totally fallacy is your notion that content is gated from people.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Shwarzchild

[geschmonz]

So your objection is that GROUP content is only for groups. And this is somehow elitism.

 

I never wrote that. I wrote that the notion "If you cant manage it its just your fault" is elitism.

 

I can't say I would really object if there was some Solo Mode added for the Ops and remaining FPs, but uh...

 

What the flying fierfek has that got to do with the Companion nerfs?

 

The fact that the ability to solo h2+ was limited to a few only.

[Pagy]

I never wrote that. I wrote that the notion "If you cant manage it its just your fault" is elitism.

how?

 

i think its namecalling and denial.

 

if something can be done by players at a higher skill level, theres nothing bad about accepting it as fact. gamers are so opposed to taking accountability or accepting the simple fact that they may not be as great at the game as they are in their own minds so instead of saying "oh rats people are doing this easily maybe i need to improve" they simply just cry "elitist"

[OniGanon]

Heroic Star Fortress is group content. It's designed for at least 2 people. Soloing it is only for Achievement hunters. Edited November 23, 2015 by OniGanon

[JessieLoverRxE]

how?

 

i think its namecalling and denial.

 

if something can be done by players at a higher skill level, theres nothing bad about accepting it as fact. gamers are so opposed to taking accountability or accepting the simple fact that they may not be as great at the game as they are in their own minds so instead of saying "oh rats people are doing this easily maybe i need to improve" they simply just cry "elitist"

 

Bless this post.

[Neoforcer]

What content is gated? You have access to all the content in game. If you fail to succeed in that content it is your problem but you are on similar terms as everyone else.

Or you call achievements a content? Because it is beyond stupid. I want my gold medal at 100m sprinting! I do it in 1h and people do it in less then 10 sec,damn elitists.

 

Acually if people fail and lets face it that content was never meant to be NIM content it was meant to get people doing more then just hey look i did the story i done BW you made a expac for nothing to do after the story. H2s we just that grind content. IF some one cant do them because they face roll the keyboard it bw problem not they players. Why Because the change may not have made it all that hard for us but it did make it hard for new players that on the terminal does it not say founder content only do not try this if you do not have 216/220 gear and know your class likea founder. It was content to appeal to every one. While even after the change i could still face roll H star fortress with a comp on passive on boss fights i will tell you that instance was not challenging in any way after you got all the buffs....

[geschmonz]

Answers to your post in italics and bold. You have a hatred for people who like to play this game at a high level, and I'm not here to tell you to change that or anything. You're free to hold a prejudice. What I think is a totally fallacy is your notion that content is gated from people.

 

Not a good idea, as its very hard to quote you if you put your answers in my quote.

 

Specifically what content is gated? With SOR were you not able to do the prequel flashpoints in solo mode as well as group? Were you able to also fight Revan and stop the threat in solo mode as you did in an operation setting? Can you not run a star fortress in solo mode as well as heroic?

 

You also can build a rocket and fly to the moon. Everyone can. If he just had the abilities. You know, exactly that is elitism. If something adresses a small minority successfully, and if you act as if everyone was adressed by it. Only because the elite can, everyone can.

 

The truth unfortunately is that the story is not gated as you say. The ONLY story content that I think is gated is Oricon with the dread masters since you can not actually face them in a solo mode capacity. At the end of the day, you get content that many pay for that many can experience in a variety of ways that allows them to conquer the presumed "threat" proposed.

 

I am not talking about story content only. I am also talking about endgame content which is off the main story, as like operations. The game should offer every content to everyone without a challenge gate.

 

The completion of the h2+ star fortress quest chain is gated behind a challenge.

 

This has nothing to do with the content you're claiming is gated. Moreover you don't have to be at end game to have access to end game like group content i.e tactical flashpoints aka mini dungeons.

 

I am not claiming it, it is a fact that the completion of h2+ star fortress is gated behind a challenge, and that only a very few are able to complete it after the patch. Additionally to the fact star fortress is gated, this includes also the completion of the alliance missions.

 

This is already how it is. Star fortresses go even farther and drop the same decorations as the heroic version

 

But the solo version does not have the whole content available. If the solo version would allow you to play the final boss, there would be no need to nerf h2+ for anyone. The problem really is that alliance mission content is being gated here, while a fix is really easy. Add the last boss to the solo mode, and people may complete their alliance mission quest chain.

 

How is the content not accessible? Can you not do the flashpoints solo? Can you not do star fortress solo? Can you not do heroics solo? What content can you not do that people do not have access to?.

 

Just see my quotes above.

Edited November 23, 2015 by geschmonz

[geschmonz]

how?

 

i think its namecalling and denial.

 

It is elitism as the player is being made guilty for the fact only a minority is able to master a challenge. And that he has to grow to the challenge given. While only a very few do that. Most people just stop playing if the challenge is frustrating.

 

if something can be done by players at a higher skill level, theres nothing bad about accepting it as fact. gamers are so opposed to taking accountability or accepting the simple fact that they may not be as great at the game as they are in their own minds so instead of saying "oh rats people are doing this easily maybe i need to improve" they simply just cry "elitist"

 

Sure it is elitism. As people take the elite as an example for everyone and use it as only argument in a discussion which even becomes argumentum ad hominem. It's just a useless argument its all about the player if only 2% of the players are able to complete a quest because its too challenging.

[Neoforcer]

There has to be because of the type of game this is. If you dislike the whole concept of quest-> working on the quest -> reward, you are playing the wrong game, my friend.

 

This game from the start was not meant to be what you asking it to be why i am a founder and this game start and always is a movie based fantasy game build on story telling not some MMORPG clone that needs to follow a pattern of some definition. This game is neither hard nor to easy and if you do not realize that then you are playing the wrong game.

[geschmonz]

Heroic Star Fortress is group content. It's designed for at least 2 people. Soloing it is only for Achievement hunters.

 

No, its meant as solo content as well. Solo player plus companion.

[Pagy]

It is elitism as the player is being made guilty for the fact only a minority is able to master a challenge. And that he has to grow to the challenge given. While only a very few do that. Most people just stop playing if the challenge is frustrating.

perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word "elitism"

 

this is the equivalent of me calling lebron james an elitist because he can dunk and i cant.

[geschmonz]

perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word "elitism"

 

this is the equivalent of me calling lebron james an elitist because he can dunk and i cant.

 

You get me wrong.

 

Elitism-example:

 

"Because the elite can everyone can. It's all your fault you cant".

 

Definition of elitism from wikipedia:

 

Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality or worth, high intellect , wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes—are those whose influence or authority is greater than that of others;

Edited November 23, 2015 by geschmonz

[Shwarzchild]

Ges,

 

you actively refuse to understand that this game caters to a broad spectrum, and not all content can be made for one type of player only since motivations of players are vast and diverse. You are going to miss the point regardless of how it's presented. However, I do only have half hour left of work now, and debating things with you has helped pass the time. For that I thank you.

 

Sincerely,

 

Shwarz.

[Pagy]

You get me wrong.

 

Elitism-example:

 

"Because the elite can everyone can. It's all your fault you cant".

 

Definition of elitism from wikipedia:

right so, do you see how its not elitism then?

 

is lebron an elitist for telling me that dunking is possible?

maybe a better example that doesnt involve a physical feat; is my nephew an elitist for telling me that he can get a certain time in mario kart?

 

in this case, its not elitist to say that a lap time can be achieved; its simple fact as a result of someone with more experience or reaction time.

 

now if my nephew decides that he's worth more as a person or individual then we're in to elitism.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Pagy

[kamikosong]

Wow! Your companions were facerolling PVP and Operations?! That's amazing. I'd love to see some videos of that.

 

Also, if all that awesome facerolling of ALL CONTENT in the game was too much for you, why couldn't you set them to another mode, and/or toggle some of their abilities? Or just disable them altogether? Did Bioware send some henchmen to your house to loom over you as you played so that you couldn't? AGAIN? Man, those stupid henchmen, I tells ya.

 

(Translation: WHOOSH! at the original post flying right over your head.)

 

On a more serious note, why does it matter one iota what other people do during their solo gameplay when it has zero impact whatsoever on you, let alone during PVP, Operations, and other legitimately challenging group content in the game? It's amazing how none of you people ever answer that question. (Well, aside from trying to claim that companions somehow trivialized it with moronic comments like "ALL CONTENT!!!")

 

Well it actually has an effect on the other types of gameplay if the solo experience is currently set at it's super easy state. I've witnessed people going into basic FPs with almost no idea on how to play their character-same with ops. I've seen people that get caught out by the odd harder content (solo) getting smashed simply because they have not come across anything that needs a thought or two. It even affects pvp play.

 

If you are not ever having to try, you never really gain any more skill/ability at anything. On my first playthrough of KOTFE I managed to use nothing but suppressive fire on my sniper-except on Arcann whom I used snipe+ambush on as well. Literally went though five entire levels without dropping below 95% health.

Lol? How engaging did you think I found the expansion?

I was crushed frankly.

 

If you are so casual as to want what we currently have then well....a game isn't what you need for entertainment-there are many great books and movies out there, go explore some of them!

[JessieLoverRxE]

No, its meant as solo content as well. Solo player plus companion.

 

Can I just ask something? If you want to finish the SF heroics+2 so bad, and don't want to spend time on figuring how you can solo it yourself, then why not just invite another player to do it with you?

 

There are not really that many of them...if this is the only content you have to group up to finish then what's then big deal? You can still do it. You can still have this 'content', and all you have to do is ask someone to join your group.

 

Unless you want the achievement for doing it solo in which case - what point is it in having it , if you don't even want to spend effort in it?

[geschmonz]

right so, do you see how its not elitism then?

 

is lebron an elitist for telling me that dunking is possible?

maybe a better example that doesnt involve a physical feat; is my nephew an elitist for telling me that he can get a certain time in mario kart?

 

Blaming the other player for being not able to master the game is the elitism here, if only the elite masters the game.

[Pagy]

Blaming the other player for being not able to master the game is the elitism here, if only the elite masters the game.

k i give up

 

life will be very hard when you scoff at facts and just call people names instead of taking personal accountability and strive to be better at something.

 

good day to you

[Zem_]

If you are so casual as to want what we currently have then well....a game isn't what you need for entertainment-there are many great books and movies out there, go explore some of them!

 

I recommend Progress Quest! It's a browser game where you basically just watch progress meters fill and then receive loot and quest rewards. It USED to be a parody of some older MMOs, but SWTOR 4.0 eventually made me think of it when I realized I didn't actually have to participate in fights to win them.