Nerf healing or add more nodes

[chosonman]

Nerf healing or add more nodes

 

Cross healing and tanking it's killing it... Add more nodes if your going to allow 2 or more healers in 8v8

[Vladnar]

NO. you try healing when you're being ganged up on and interrupted. Its the lack of opposition focus that makes healing good. The more healing they have the less dmg they do.....the mixed bag that is unranked should be much more mixed bag and not let people team up....then you couldn't have 3 players on TS a tank and 2 heals who are talking too....now thats much MORE of the problem but a good focussed team will tank them down or at the very least nullify them.

[Laoi]

yea lets add more objectives so ppl can avoid pvp even more.

 

srsly some of those ideas ppl come up with....

 

there should be restrictions on who is allowed to post in the pvp forums -.-

[MystbladeWA]

there should be restrictions on who is allowed to post in the pvp forums -.-

 

There was a man with a funny little moustache about 80yrs ago who had similar ideas in general....

[Cretinus]

The more healing they have the less dmg they do.....

 

You don't win 8x8s by doing loads of dmg and/or killing loads of people. That's arena, not 8x8s. In 8x8s, a healer who stands by a node and never goes down will win you the match without killing anybody, cause he will be able to keep the other team from capping that node forever. And if that healer is a sorc, then he will be even able to heal his complete team to invulnerability at the same time.

 

If this doesn't stop very soon, then you can have my stuff.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Cretinus

[AnimalPotential]

This is a l2p issue.

 

1 healer = 2 mediocre DPS, or 1 AMAZING DPS player.

 

Lets take an example:

Assassin dps: 1st strong heal -> interupt. 2nd attempt: Electrocute -> 3rd attempt: Spike (resolve bar at 90%) 4th attempt: -> whirlwind. Now he is at full resolve for 8 seconds. 5th attempt -> interupt. 6th attempt, depending on a few things, he might get it off, OR, his resolve will be gone, and you can interupt with overload. 7th -> spike. 8th -> interupt.

I tested this against a sorc friend who is a healer, and you can literally stop him from healing for his first 11 or 12 attempts.

 

Marauder: Crippling slash -> interupt -> force choke -> Interupt -> aoe fear (full resolve). But if he isnt dead in this time, OR has wasted his barrier.

 

So yeah, l2p.

[Matherine]

This is a l2p issue.

 

1 healer = 2 mediocre DPS, or 1 AMAZING DPS player.

 

Lets take an example:

Assassin dps: 1st strong heal -> interupt. 2nd attempt: Electrocute -> 3rd attempt: Spike (resolve bar at 90%) 4th attempt: -> whirlwind. Now he is at full resolve for 8 seconds. 5th attempt -> interupt. 6th attempt, depending on a few things, he might get it off, OR, his resolve will be gone, and you can interupt with overload. 7th -> spike. 8th -> interupt.

I tested this against a sorc friend who is a healer, and you can literally stop him from healing for his first 11 or 12 attempts.

 

Marauder: Crippling slash -> interupt -> force choke -> Interupt -> aoe fear (full resolve). But if he isnt dead in this time, OR has wasted his barrier.

 

So yeah, l2p.

 

lol; healers are broken; one dps should = one healer, no more, no less; otherwise heal stacking will always be the best tactic. The game is fundamentally flawed due to it being designed so healers can out heal damage; and so it breaks when stacking occurs.

 

1 healer does not = 1 dps, even an amazing dps... Take a healer who is also "amazing" , it doesn't matter who your dps is; they're not dying unless the crit gods are shining down upon you (and i mean REALLY shining).

[Technohic]

Just play for the story and use PvP as a sideshow. Thats the game. They never balanced very well when trying; and they certainly won't when they have clearly abandoned any effort for the new story content.

[AnimalPotential]

lol; healers are broken; one dps should = one healer, no more, no less; otherwise heal stacking will always be the best tactic. The game is fundamentally flawed due to it being designed so healers can out heal damage; and so it breaks when stacking occurs.

 

1 healer does not = 1 dps, even an amazing dps... Take a healer who is also "amazing" , it doesn't matter who your dps is; they're not dying unless the crit gods are shining down upon you (and i mean REALLY shining).

 

 

No offense, but if thats your opinion then you have no clue about balancing.

If 1 regular DPS = 1 healer, then the point of bringing a healer to a warzone is NONE.

And tbh, a great DPS can mess a healer up bad the way things are now, but people are too stupid to figure out how.

People use their CC to stack combos to kill, big bursts. Which is how you kill a DPS player with CC.

On a healer, you use your CC as interupts, and your INTERUPT skill (most dont ever use it). And youll screw them up the pooper.

 

Again, its a learn to play issue, not a balance issue.

[Morath]

Ok my 2 cents, all these people defending heals... Of course if your playing in a vacuum and you have the above scenario playing out fighting heals is doable but it never plays out like that in 8v8. Heals becomes much tougher the more people they have. I have played them all and see this issue from both sides. A heal especially a sorc only needs minor assistance from any player on his team to get out of trouble and be back to healing full out.

 

I don't tunnel dps and hammer, stun, everything on heals with a second dps, what happens is with the proliferation of stuns he get loose runs and heals both himself and others the cycle repeats. Add one more heal and the problem is compounded.

 

You need a coordinated focused team to manage them whereas the reverse does not. A little help from anyone paying attention to heals and he is good to go. My sorc may not do 3.5 mill heals but I can easily churn out 2.5 and throw out plenty of my own utility to play objectively. Its just too powerful and easy.

[Technohic]

No offense, but if thats your opinion then you have no clue about balancing.

If 1 regular DPS = 1 healer, then the point of bringing a healer to a warzone is NONE.

And tbh, a great DPS can mess a healer up bad the way things are now, but people are too stupid to figure out how.

People use their CC to stack combos to kill, big bursts. Which is how you kill a DPS player with CC.

On a healer, you use your CC as interupts, and your INTERUPT skill (most dont ever use it). And youll screw them up the pooper.

 

Again, its a learn to play issue, not a balance issue.

 

Head to head a healer vs DPS being equal would not make it worthless to bring a healer as the healer is a force multiplier with it helping its team. Its not like in an even fight, the healer is going to drop quickly either. Its going to take longer to kill a healer than another DPS and thats where the healers team reciprocates the support.

[AnimalPotential]

Ok my 2 cents, all these people defending heals... Of course if your playing in a vacuum and you have the above scenario playing out fighting heals is doable but it never plays out like that in 8v8. Heals becomes much tougher the more people they have. I have played them all and see this issue from both sides. A heal especially a sorc only needs minor assistance from any player on his team to get out of trouble and be back to healing full out.

 

I don't tunnel dps and hammer, stun, everything on heals with a second dps, what happens is with the proliferation of stuns he get loose runs and heals both himself and others the cycle repeats. Add one more heal and the problem is compounded.

 

You need a coordinated focused team to manage them whereas the reverse does not. A little help from anyone paying attention to heals and he is good to go. My sorc may not do 3.5 mill heals but I can easily churn out 2.5 and throw out plenty of my own utility to play objectively. Its just too powerful and easy.

 

Are you serious? Im asking because I dont know if you are trolling or not.

Yes, 2 healers helping eachother is strong because you increase the other persons effectivity exponentially if you WORK TOGETHER. But that goes for any class.

My favorite thing in the whole wide world to do is team with a sniper from my guild, as my own sniper. He targets a healer, and hits him with the 20% less healing shot, i target the other sniper with a flashbang and hits my (target focus targets target button), and hits my full combo at the exact same time he hits his. Thats 100k damage in less then 2 seconds. Every single time we do it, the healer drops. Then we target the other healer, and boom. You dont even need interupts, big CCs, kiting. NOTHING. Its the simplest thing in the world.

 

1 vs 1, a good DPS with a brain, can stop him from being useful, either kill him or at the very least keep him busy from the fight. You cant add another healer into the mix and say 2 healers makes it OP, without adding another DPS who works in conjunction with the first DPS.

 

2 snipers = dead healer, + dead healer. Every time.

2 fury marauders? oh look, instant 100k burst with CC immunity and armor penetration.

2 assassins? constant CC + burst.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

Its a LEARN TO PLAY issue. Not a balance issue.

 

And for the record in terms of balancing, a healer should NEVER be equalised by a DPS class. Its supposed to be hard to kill.

 

Most players use about 10 buttons. Especially sorcs.

A good player uses about 20-25.

 

Theres a difference to those two.

[Technohic]

 

2 snipers = dead healer, + dead healer. Every time.

2 fury marauders? oh look, instant 100k burst with CC immunity and armor penetration.

2 assassins? constant CC + burst.

 

.

 

Are you assuming both healers are standing still face tanking the snipers without LOS and fail to use roots and snares the melee?

 

Maybe the healers should use more than those 10 buttons. Which I have not seen a single class where I could get away with 10 buttons.

[AnimalPotential]

Are you assuming both healers are standing still face tanking the snipers without LOS and fail to use roots and snares the melee?

 

Maybe the healers should use more than those 10 buttons. Which I have not seen a single class where I could get away with 10 buttons.

 

LOS? roots?

From we target you, until we are done killing you, the time is less then 4 seconds.

Shatter shot = 50% slow + 20% healing decrease + leg shot = root. Fills 30% of your resolve bar.

2 second cast + instant cast = 20-25k crit (guaranteed i may add) x 2 + 2 x 15k followthrough's. = 50k + 30k = 80k.

Thats a 2 second window.

[Cretinus]

This is a l2p issue.

 

1 healer = 2 mediocre DPS, or 1 AMAZING DPS player.

 

The stupidity of this argumentation becomes obvious by the fact that it doesn't even take into account whether the healer is good or bad.

[AnimalPotential]

The stupidity of this argumentation becomes obvious by the fact that it doesn't even take into account whether the healer is good or bad.

 

Stupid players are stupid, regardless of class and role.

[Cretinus]

Stupid players are stupid, regardless of class and role.

 

Sure. But according to you, the DPSers need to be amazing and to coordinate themselves. They need to communicate and to use interrupts and breaks in a coordinated manner. And if they don't, then they need to l2p.

The healer on the other hand doesn't even need to be good. He's just there. He exists and that's all. The mere fact that he's a healer is sufficient to keep a team of premades busy, according to you. And this you call balance.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Cretinus

[AnimalPotential]

Sure. But according to you, the DPSers need to be amazing and to coordinate themselves. They need to communicate and to use interrupts and breaks in a coordinated manner. And if they don't, then they need to l2p.

The healer on the other hand doesn't even need to be good. He's just there. He exists and that's all. The mere fact that he's a healer is sufficient to keep a team of premades busy, according to you. And this you call balance.

 

Because the value of a healer should be greater then that of ONE single DPS player. Thats balance imo.

[Lhancelot]

lol; healers are broken; one dps should = one healer, no more, no less; otherwise heal stacking will always be the best tactic. The game is fundamentally flawed due to it being designed so healers can out heal damage; and so it breaks when stacking occurs.

 

1 healer does not = 1 dps, even an amazing dps... Take a healer who is also "amazing" , it doesn't matter who your dps is; they're not dying unless the crit gods are shining down upon you (and i mean REALLY shining).

 

 

Healers are not broken. Sage/sorc heals are overperforming though. We need to clarify that first.

 

Secondly, I am sorry I have to disagree with you on the one dps should kill one healer and that in your mind equals balance. That's flawed.

 

Why? Because a healer theoretically should have a very hard time killing dps making them weak offensively. What the healer gains by not killing anything is defenses and support to heal teammates.

 

Playing a healer isn't as exciting as a dps in the fact as a healer you are not burning people down, but it's a rewarding role because you "help" the team overall in a larger umbrella-sort-of-way. Hence why typically on games there are more dps than anything else, because dps is more exciting.

 

If one dps could easily kill any healer, no one would ever play healers. So as it stands, a healer should be difficult to kill, but also lack offense that really makes any difference. In that mind, I think BW has it right.

 

The problem is you have healers (sorc/sages) that are utterly ridiculous in their healing output right now. In REGS, you cannot shut down a great sorc/sage player unless you have 2 great dps, or 3 average dps on them, and that only forces them to keep themselves up while their team can mop up your team.

 

If a team has 2-3 sorc/sage healers you will kill no one unless the sorc/sage healers are complete noobs or PVE players grinding for Forex and sitting on a node playing patty-cakes.

 

As it stands, a decent dps can easily force a commando healer to go into survival mode healing only themselves, and at the very least run a operative healer around enough to keep them from keeping their HoTs on all their targets.

 

To stifle a sorc or sage healer, you really do need either 1 great dps or at minimum 2 decent dps just to stop them from healing their team.

[MrGoldsilver]

All I heard is Nerf Operatives. I agree.

 

On a real note, merc heals needs a buff (I won't know exactly what needs to be buffed until I get the credits to augment my merc healer, and then play him for a while)

 

Operative healing is fine as it is

 

Sorc healing needs some kind of nerf. Probably to resource management, and maybe mobility (Maybe just revert that change to their AOE circle of heal of fun, and make it required to stand in the circle the entire time again).

 

And it would be interesting to see if guard could be reworked. Make it have a duration of 12 seconds, with a cooldown of 9 seconds, increases damage reduction of that person by 25%, redirects 50% of the damage if the tank is within 20 meters, is off the GCD, and lowers the threat of that target (So it still is useful in PVE)

 

Basically make guard stronger, but make guard swapping harder to do.

[Sorkenna]

This is a l2p issue.

 

1 healer = 2 mediocre DPS, or 1 AMAZING DPS player.

 

Lets take an example:

Assassin dps: 1st strong heal -> interupt. 2nd attempt: Electrocute -> 3rd attempt: Spike (resolve bar at 90%) 4th attempt: -> whirlwind. Now he is at full resolve for 8 seconds. 5th attempt -> interupt. 6th attempt, depending on a few things, he might get it off, OR, his resolve will be gone, and you can interupt with overload. 7th -> spike. 8th -> interupt.

I tested this against a sorc friend who is a healer, and you can literally stop him from healing for his first 11 or 12 attempts.

 

Marauder: Crippling slash -> interupt -> force choke -> Interupt -> aoe fear (full resolve). But if he isnt dead in this time, OR has wasted his barrier.

 

So yeah, l2p.

 

Assassin dps cannot use spike unstealth so your 3rd and 7th don't exist unless you use your vanish before but even with a vanish, you won't be able to use spike twice.

 

For me, this is a situation where the sorcerer does nothing except trying to cast without using a single cd. Chance to see this in a warzone against a decent player? 0.

[Cretinus]

Because the value of a healer should be greater then that of ONE single DPS player. Thats balance imo.

 

Please take no offense, but you're not listening. What I'm trying to say is that while 1 single sorc healer doesn't need to be particularly good, the ones who are supposed to counter him need to be good, they need to outnumber him AND they also need to play highly coordinated. This is too much. I would accept that one needs two DPSers to kill one sorc healer, fullstop. But I can't accept that these two DPSers also need to be some sort of coordinated premade on TS while the sorc healer is allowed to be a mediocre pug.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Cretinus

[Lhancelot]

Please take no offense, but you're not listening. What I'm trying to say is that while 1 single sorc healer doesn't need to be particularly good, the ones who are supposed to counter him need to be good, they need to outnumber him AND they also need to play highly coordinated. This is too much. I would accept that one needs two DPSers to kill one sorc healer, fullstop. But I can't accept that these two DPSers also need to be some sort of coordinated premade on TS while the sorc healer is allowed to be a mediocre pug.

 

yeah, the ease of play for sorc/sage heals is at an all-time high, and for the effort on a healing sage/sorc you are rewarded far too much.

 

On a side note I feel like venting, so bear with me or stop reading right now.

 

It's so annoying right now in warzones on TEH particularly in mids. It's like the imps just farm mids constantly, and they ALWAYS have 2-3 sorc healers that are 55-64. You literally kill maybe 1-2 people the entire match.

 

Mids should not be like this with newer players trying to learn their classes etc. The irony is, when I am on my 65s, I don't see this influx of sorc healers for imps. (Yeah, that's right imps of TEH, GG in mids why not play 65s?)

 

I really believe they only play mids because this class is so OP'd in this tier and they know they never lose with 2-3 of them on a team.

 

it's frustrating as **** for me and I am a vet pvper. I can only imagine what a newer player thinks or someone that is just starting to learn pvp and enters mids where they constantly face a imp team that always has 2-3 sorc healers that can never be killed.

 

I know to some mids doesn't matter, but you know what... They do.

 

The heals of sorcs/sages right now need toned down in a big way because players are abusing the fact they are overperforming so much, particularly in the 41-64 bracket.

[Morath]

LOS? roots?

From we target you, until we are done killing you, the time is less then 4 seconds.

Shatter shot = 50% slow + 20% healing decrease + leg shot = root. Fills 30% of your resolve bar.

2 second cast + instant cast = 20-25k crit (guaranteed i may add) x 2 + 2 x 15k followthrough's. = 50k + 30k = 80k.

Thats a 2 second window.

 

First of all you are talking about good coordination and you would get away with that once if I paired my bros vanguard with mine. You wouldn't make it through your rotation a second time even if the healers were standing still. You seem to think you will not have anyone attacking you or stunning you or that the healer wont bubble, but you said one thing that is correct "increase the other persons effectivity exponentially" ... this is especially true with healers.

 

The natural reaction is to help the healer even with average players. I have never been gunned down on my sorc or sage or even my op like you just described.

[CannotDeny]

This is a l2p issue.

 

1 healer = 2 mediocre DPS, or 1 AMAZING DPS player.

 

Lets take an example:

Assassin dps: 1st strong heal -> interupt. 2nd attempt: Electrocute -> 3rd attempt: Spike (resolve bar at 90%) 4th attempt: -> whirlwind. Now he is at full resolve for 8 seconds. 5th attempt -> interupt. 6th attempt, depending on a few things, he might get it off, OR, his resolve will be gone, and you can interupt with overload. 7th -> spike. 8th -> interupt.

I tested this against a sorc friend who is a healer, and you can literally stop him from healing for his first 11 or 12 attempts.

 

Also your nice little example shows me you actually have no clue what you're talking about, because in a warzone mezzes and stuns will be thrown out and AoEs WILL hit the healer at some point in the chaos, so his resolve will be full.

 

On top of that "DPS" assassin can't spike out of stealth unless you mean tank spec with DPS gear. In which case you won't down that heals either way.

Unless you mean "Blow a 1 minute 30 second cooldown" just to interrupt 1 non-cooldown heal. (Talking about the forced stealth move)

 

Marauder: Crippling slash -> interupt -> force choke -> Interupt -> aoe fear (full resolve). But if he isnt dead in this time, OR has wasted his barrier.

 

So yeah, l2p.

 

********. I actively use my interrupt when it's on cooldown and had another DPS doing the same. Fat lot of good that does when the healer literally has 12 hotkeys for "Heal to full". Assuming you even DO manage to get one down (Probably with a third), Force Bubble and then uninterruptible/bonus healing right after it.

 

Not even gonna bring up tank+heals, because I ran as a tank with a healer and it's quite ******** how people need 6 to down us while we distract people.

Edited November 21, 2015 by CannotDeny