Psychopyro Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) corpse runs ftw. . Pull Corpse Pull Corpse, Die, Pull Corpse Pull Corpse, a little closer, die... Yea great times... Edited November 21, 2015 by Psychopyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassfu Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Incoming 65% buff because whiners need someone else to push buttons for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Pull Corpse Pull Corpse, Die, Pull Corpse Pull Corpse, a little closer, die... Yea great times... and not just having tanks. You have your tanks and then your puller? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) BTW...I strongly believe that, had they launched 4.0 with companions in their current state folks would have been enraged about level sync. The reason the rage died down quick, IMO, is because folks realized it wasnt that bad with powerful companions. They only realized the true effect of level sync in my eyes after 4.0.2. All the latest patch did from my perspective is illuminate how serious level sync is as far a fundamental core game change. yep. pretty much. as for "good old days" there is a reason mmo's have been getting more accessible over the years. there's also a reason why wildstar crashed and burned and had to readjust a lot of things (and trust me - its not art style or general mechanics - people who bought that game, bought it knowing about its art style and general gameplay). Edited November 21, 2015 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Incoming 65% buff because whiners need someone else to push buttons for them. I will bet the narrow on a # lower that essentially annoys most on both sides. The logic being "annoyed people still play and thus pay. pissed off people top and don't" and those that are still pissed off... well yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychopyro Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Incoming 65% buff because whiners need someone else to push buttons for them. Well actually, the nerf was around 60%, give or take a couple points. Even a 65% buff from current levels would not return them to previous levels... EDIT: Just to explain the math on that... Say 100 was the power 4.0 We lose 60% in 4.02, making the new number 40 An Increase of 65% only make the true new number 66. That would make a total overall reduction of 34% from 4.0, which ironically is a number a lot of us have come up with as reasonable... Edited November 21, 2015 by Psychopyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 BTW...I strongly believe that, had they launched 4.0 with companions in their current state folks would have been enraged about level sync. The reason the rage died down quick, IMO, is because folks realized it wasnt that bad with powerful companions. They only realized the true effect of level sync in my eyes after 4.0.2. All the latest patch did from my perspective is illuminate how serious level sync is as far a fundamental core game change. and this shows the issue is, like I and other said when the expac was announced, the entire expac. This expac was NOT about any existing player who would be annoyed by level sync. If you look at the majority of changes it is about trying to attract new players and get them to stay, a problem with ALL MMOs. Thing is to do this they ended up setting up a system where it looks HUGE to the new guy but rehashed junk to the existing player. We said this was a gamble. Many of us pointed this out back then. We said BW was hoping to minimize existing losses in the hopes of growth via these systems. We were told it would only matter to people who liked FP and OPs. Then when they fixed companions these people said "OMG that applies to us too, WTH". The basic mechanical concept of this expac is flawed, for the enjoyment of the existing player. It is sad to see actually how wishful thinking blinded people until brick hit them in the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyla Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 yep. pretty much. as for "good old days" there is a reason mmo's have been getting more accessible over the years. there's also a reason why wildstar crashed and burned and had to readjust a lot of things (and trust me - its not art style or general mechanics - people who bought that game, bought it knowing about its art style and general gameplay). Yes the reason is a badly designed game is a badly designed and believe me or not but it also has to do with art style and general gameplay. Many hardcore raiders aren't just raiding 24/7, they also do other things, I don't know people that play a game for one activity only and don't care at all for all the rest of a game. The art style, the limited skills sets, the lore are part of the reasons I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyjitat Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Incoming 65% buff because whiners need someone else to push buttons for them. Incoming 20 or so idiots complaining about x being overpowered in pvp or x being overpowered in operations and then you'll be in the same boat we are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyaise Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Well actually, the nerf was around 60%, give or take a couple points. Even a 65% buff from current levels would not return them to previous levels... EDIT: Just to explain the math on that... Say 100 was the power 4.0 We lose 60% in 4.02, making the new number 40 An Increase of 65% only make the true new number 66. That would make a total overall reduction of 34% from 4.0, which ironically is a number a lot of us have come up with as reasonable... It was completely unfair of you to use mathematical logic on the original poster I'm thinking we'll end up mid-away between 4.0 and 4.0.2. Exactly mid-way? Give or take the odd percent, yes. Edited November 21, 2015 by Lyaise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Incoming 65% buff because whiners need someone else to push buttons for them. It's not about it. You can't be that blind when Gunnery Commando can outheal a healer companion. Player healer should outheal healer companions but when dps disciplines do it too then something is wrong. http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8641611&postcount=789 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 You're going to see a 20-30% boost in companion effectiveness, not much else. For well geared, experienced veterans, the content is where they want it to be. Companions don't need to much of a boost to get everyone else there and they certainly don't want to trivialize level sync or make it optional. That was their method for making the heroics relevant. Well geared, experienced veterans have nothing new to do... Is that really the demo they should be shooting for? The lack of new content tells me they should be shooting for the newer players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingery Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Level: 65 Roughly Average Item Rating: mix of 216/220 Discipline: Combat Sentinel Companion: T7-O1 Companion role: Healer Companion Influence level: 21 Which Mission: Star Fortress H2+ for "The One and Only" achievement Before patch it wasn't really hard. Not a single defeat, health is always around 100%. After patch didn't notice much difference either. Yes, during combat health can drop to 20%-50% and I was defeated once (on 2 x 240k health elites), but overall experience is still on the same level. In both cases it took around 30 minutes to complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voblat Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) In my original post in this thread I mentioned that the only real outcome of this change was to make getting the alliance grind done take more time. Yes, its harder to do stuff now and some classes will struggle more than others (highlight how badly they have balanced both players and content) but ultimately that is the outcome of it. Here is the thing. Why do they want it to take longer? They just spent at least 8 months encouraging everyone to roll endless alts, with 12x xp and now level 60 tokens. That is the longevity for most players, you finish the story (which now includes those heroic star fortresses by design as well as the alliance) and then move on to an alt. This change also screws that as well. Did they actually think anything at all through? PS. Level sync still overides satile's buff in the Revan weekly mission on Yavin so you are fighting Revan with his 20k crits with around 50K of health. Who the hell tests this game. Edited November 21, 2015 by Voblat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaeKwanLeap Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 My wife and I did "Battle of Ilum: The False Emperor" last night Wife: 65th level Trooper Vanguard (Tank mode) Companion: Lana (Rank 10 influence) as Tank also Gear... Store bought stuff + gear from doing chapter I - IX Me: 58th level (bumped to 65th) Jedi Consular (Seer: Healer) Companion: Nadia (Damage, until boss fights, then switched her to healer) Gear: Oranges with 140 mods in them. We completed it (not sure because of the 4.0.2 patch note that said they fixed it for Solo) During the fights, the two tanks (wife and comp) were able to hold most of the aggro, allowing my companion to damage without being attacked too much. I kept a bubble on her, and the tanks, and found that the companion kept pulling the aggro from the trooper. The only tragedy we had was from the companions dying from the STUPID. Yes... my companion constantly froze after completing an opponent, I had to micro manager her while healing everyone, so the damager would DAMAGE and not just stand there. I am taking shots to the head from a random "non-tank-aggro" enemy and she just stood there. Another annoying thing was... in DAMAGE mode, Nadia, when told to attack, does her force "Slam" first and then jumps into the battle. Shouldn't she do that "second?" All in all it was a successful run, there were some close calls on boss fights that had health get low, but I was able to recover and get them healed up before the next round of heavy damaging abilities hit them. Yes, the battles were tougher, I actually broke a sweat mashing my healing rotations on the tanks to keep bubbles and HOTS on them. Solo, this would probably suck, but paired up with another player, the companion nerf didn't hurt so bad, the fights take longer and there is risk... but at least we weren't dying all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Hey folks, First off, we want to thank all of you for your feedback about Companion balance following 4.0.2. As we go into the weekend, we wanted you to know that we have gone through this thread, the forums, Reddit, and social media to gather everyone’s perspectives. We have come out of this with quite a few action items that we are going to take, including buffs for Companions. On Monday, we are going to release a forum post highlighting our plans to address current Companion balance, along with the state of Heroic Missions and Star Fortress. Thank you all once again for your feedback. -eric Well this is interesting. I wasn't expecting a response until Monday at the earliest and was fully prepared to be waiting until after Thanksgiving for some kind of response. Even though the 'official' response wont be until Monday as I expected, its still nice that you chimed in before the weekend. So Kudos to you. However I still hold to my belief that there still wont be any changes made until after the holidays. Next year. So if you don't mind, I think I will let my sub stay canceled and not log in to the game with my remaining time until I see the notes on Monday. If the adjustments aren't even going to take place until after the Holidays, then I will just save my money. Maybe I'll go back to WoW for a few months until you guys figure out what you are doing. But at any rate, its nice to see that you guys are listening to your players. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterSpatula Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I've barely noticed a difference on my level 65 Shadow Tank, however: Mission: H2+ CorSec Crackdown Character: Level 56 DPS Merc, full adaptive gear with Level 56 Green mods 3 attempts with Blizz in healing stance, 1 attempt with Mako in healing stance, all failures. Heroic Moment, Defense screens, and medpac, used in all attempts. Kiting behind the pillars used in two attempts, however companion stands his/her ground and gets mown down just as fast when I attempt that. CC not used because enemies spawn in from all directions already hostile. I got fairly close all three times, and I made the fight last, but in the end, the companions simply couldn't keep up with the damage output of that many mobs, and I can't AOE them down because they come from all directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceinwyn Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I said yesterday I'd post some feedback after completing a Heroic Star Fortress with my scoundrel for comparison against my experience with my Merc. Have added the details to my original post which is on page 99 of this thread. I imagine all the feedback they need has already been seen but it's there anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanriel Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Tank mobs are pretty bad for threat. So often I kill the mob before the tank ever gets aggro. Healers seem like they could use a little buff. DPS seem fine.. If you think DPS are fine you probably never run with one or you've never looked at a log parser. They do half the damage as my Sage Healer and 70% when I'm pinch healing. It's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Yes the reason is a badly designed game is a badly designed and believe me or not but it also has to do with art style and general gameplay. Many hardcore raiders aren't just raiding 24/7, they also do other things, I don't know people that play a game for one activity only and don't care at all for all the rest of a game. The art style, the limited skills sets, the lore are part of the reasons I left. what I don't understand is... if you didn't like the art style - why did you buy it in a first place? its not like they hid it, or the lore prior to the game being available for purchase. not to mention... anyone who was interested in the game could get into one of the Beta weekends to try it out. I did. the truth is... most people left because too much of the game was rapidly unaccessible past early leveling. they erred a little too hardcore. mind you.. its still possible to be hardcore and do ok. secret world does it. they TOO had to be buy to play eventually, but they did so accepting their very niche status. do you know why WoW blew up as it did back then? because even why not nearly as well designed as EQ (and dear god that launch was just absolutely awful and almost unplayable) - it was far more accessible. it was solo friendly. it didn't punish you prohibitively for messing up and dying. hardcore is niche. hard is niche. its why easy and normal difficulty exists in majority of single player games, its why some games started adding "very easy" difficulty. and thing is. HM ops were and aren't as easy as people claim they are. but they ARE absolutely easier and more accessible than old school ones where among other things a boss fight, a single boss fight could last through the day. you want something to have wider appeal? make it accessible, make it relaxing. add elements of challenge here and there, but the bulk? needs to be easy enough that even someone who is marginal gamer - can still successfully play it. Edited November 21, 2015 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkeran Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Thank you for your quick answer Eric/Bioware ! Looking forward for monday. A nice middle-ground buff to comps would be really good ! Thank you again, I hope that many will be back to the game, helping you to make even better following to the journey we just started with KoTFE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakuryu Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'm glad to see there's a buff for companions incoming. With the focus of companions in 4.0, it just makes sense to me that they'd be strong (at least by rank 50). I have no illusion of 4.0 strength companions, but I think it would be nice to have Influence play a stronger role in companion effectiveness in general. Ideally it would allow for more personal tweaking of player challenge to appease a wider group of people, but I digress. I'll wait to see what the word is on Monday. In the end, so long as some of the current tedium is addressed, I'll be content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Not for the VAST majority of players. Most players don't do OPs, a very large part doesn't even do FPs. They do story content as in leveling characters and do planetary stories. Mostly solo stuff basically. I know that. The point I was making is that most players likely engage in the vanilla side of the game, perhaps engage in flashpoints when they outlevel them...at least prior to 4.0. As I said before, I would say it is a safe bet that the average player rarely if ever engages in PVP or GSF, certainly not likely to have done an operation or hard mode, only occasionally groups (probably became more common with tacticals prior to 4.0) and has likely never stepped foot in an operation. The likely majority playerbase is solo casual, and that was directly impacted by level sync...removing a mechanic that I expect a majority of players relied on to make leveling and content easier....outleveling the content. I would go even further. I would bet that most players had not completed the "Revenge of the Archon" final battle on Makeb until the difficulty of mobs on Makeb was adjusted downward, and they had the GSI buff in place. My guess would be the average armor level, or perhaps the most common was vendor 148 mods. That was only due to them being available on the Makeb vendor....and I would also say that most players likely engaged in dailies, mostly focusing on Black Hole, Section X, perhaps Illum, CZ if they were so inclined, likely ignored Makeb for the most part and only did a few dailies on Oricon...as most were too difficult. I know, it is quite a bit to assume, and it is all speculative. But I would bet on it. When you have a playerbase that is so widely represented by these kind of things, you don't stick your fingers in the pie, so to speak, unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE you understand what you are doing and the impact it will have on your players. Level sync is a great idea IMO...but that is all it is at this point. A great idea...on paper. One that will be almost impossible to implement without harming the majority playerbase somehow. I suppose we will see, but I think with some work it could have worked....but it wasn't ready for release. Not yet. Edited November 21, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singularcatalyst Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Translation they feel fine for my 65 in 220 gear were i see the problem as a founder you have casuals that have been player the game for a while know there class in lower heroics dying over and over again not because they need to learn how to play BIOWARE because they do not have CD large influence rank.. 100% THIS. So many "elder" players reporting no problems, of course they don't... the patch screws only the new players. I was enjoying the heroic content while leveling until you patched this crap in. I want to have fun while leveling, not boring, tedious crap this has become... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck_of_Death Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Please sticky for future developers. This is how you ruin a good performance of a new expansion. And don`t be fooled. Money is the deciding factor of this decision. So a lot of people have unsubscribed and most of them will never come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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