Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[Draqsko]

Its that bad of a nerf? My worst fears was a nuke nerf like the contraband slot machine. Should have just been a tweaking around the edges, sounds like they took the nerf bat and bashed it into the ground.

 

It's bad, but to really see the true impact I'd have to parse since they could be pushing more ehps than they were before given how much they were flat out overhealing.

 

Power definitely got nixed down more than 50% though, and Mastery is way lower than my character's mastery, even though he's in PvP gear that's statted for crit and power instead of higher mastery (I dropped his mastery from 5.4k down to 4.8k because the gains in crit and power augments are worth more than mastery augments).

 

This was on a low influence companion (level 16 or 17), so it would be like someone entering KOTFE endgame who did all the crons on one toon and doesn't have tons of presence buffs from alts (I think I have 1500 presence on that character with that companion).

 

But yeah, 4.1k mastery, 4.4k endurance, under 1k power, 1300 combined crit and alacrity, as a healer.

[Rafaman]

I thought you were quitting?

 

Lol. I got the sarcasm. Because we all know his methods.

[roachfex]

I'm thinking... there are parts during the KoTFE storyline that I felt with a healer character where really though, only doable because how strong the companions were feeling. I wonder how we'd fare now...

 

Honestly, I can't understand the complain about companions. You could always dismiss them and play without them if you wanted a challenge...

 

I was thinking the same thing - finished off a runthrough of KotFE on my fourth brought level 60 (was holding off playing through my pre4.0 alts until the missing companions were fully fixed). Was thinking of buying 4 more level 60s to take though - that is unlikely to happen now. Probably done with KotFE - will just take the 4 that have already done the current chapters through to the end. I may have time to visit Lotro again.

[JattaGin]

Just came home from work and wanted to play the last remaining Star Fortress H2 on Hoth. Then I read the patch notes. Then this thread. Then I closed the launcher.

 

Soloing a Star Fortress H2 was the only remaining challenge for me in this game. I play KotFE with my healer and I need to play this H2 with a companion in healing stance, otherwise I have problems, especially with gold mobs and during the final fight (that's a fight to my liking!).

 

Managed to solo them all with 192 (and later 208) gear and a healing companion with influence level 15. But it always took sooooo long, because my healer doesn't do much damage. And my companion heals and barely attacks.

 

I will not be able to solo that with this nerf. Maybe my char would make it. But not my nerves. So I will not even try. Sure, if you say: It's group content, so group up. Fair enough. However, I won't and I don't want to read BW's argument that they want everyone to be able to play everything. A nerf of whatever does not make anything for anyone easier. And their new way for this game is solo content anyway. Why does this story arc even have to end with H2s in the first place? Why not let solo players finish it in solo mode? After all, this is for getting companions. If BW wants all players to be able to get all companions, then this heroic mode makes no sense. But I digress.

 

Level sync is a nightmare in itself. Zero challenge, just a total nuisance thanks to a huge range of aggro. But at least the companions could kill the mobs alone. Now they cannot (I suppose). So I have to fight low level mobs on a planet on which I have 100% achievements? I don't see that happening.

 

I will watch some TV series now instead of playing the game. There is no motivation left in me to even start the game at the moment. This is beyond horrible for me. (But I understand and accept that there are others who do not share my view.)

[Nommaz]

Eric, Feed back as requested in OP:

Got up early before work to test (luckily I patched last night)

did a 2h in belsavis, each mob of 1 elite and a couple of strong's took my health beyond 10% using a stun on the elite until I finished with the others, my shield and health pot.

 

I got down to 1% on one fight, if a companion is supposed to be as good as a player I'd love to meet who they base this on..... maybe a 10yo?

So I tried a SF 2H, got through mobs quite easily, in fact much easier than a standard planetary 2H right up to the first boss...

My level 10 companion couldn't keep up with the praetorian, got it to 25% and it killed me, pre nerf no issues with this boss unless I was thrown over the balcony...

 

Trooper mix of 208 and 216 using Senja 10 influence.

Before you all say you need more influence I'd like to remind you that there is no influence requirement to the statement that we should be able to solo these and the companion is your 2nd "player"

I tried it before complaining like I said.

Not happy considering whether or not to cancel sub, I was really starting to enjoy this as a new solo friendly game, I love MMO's love the AH and seeing other people occasionally grouping when I choose, but I prefer to solo, its the way I have played all.

Finally I do not like being treated and paying for a beta tester, if I wanted to do that i'd have signed up.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Nommaz

[Avalyssia]

Well they have some armor now. Stat wise - some things are good and some things are bad. Senya took a massive drop in dps mode though. I don't have time to do a SF heroic atm but I'll try some of the Belsavis heroics. She lost 23k hp in tank lol Edited November 17, 2015 by Avalyssia

[Rosiemae]

Well, it looks like the vocal minority got what they wanted, again...companion healing nerfed by 75% confirmed in game. As soon as these thread started popping up I predicted a ridiculous over nerf, and that's exactly what we got.

 

Can't say I didn't see it coming. Hope you all choke on your tedious grinding.

 

Makes two of us on both counts.

[kamenoko]

Soon™

 

Does it benefit the players? Fix it last.

[Akeashar]

Well, been doing some of my own testing in Section X on my 65 SW in the 208 item set, with an influence 20 companion... and the overkill of a nerf really is real. Given that people who had maxed affection with their companions pre-KotFE would only have influence 10, and how paltry companion gifts are for increasing influence its pretty much a deal breaker. If my companion is struggling to heal me here, I'd hate to see them try in any actual hard content.

 

The influence 10 max thing is especially galling since my Trooper that I began post-KotFE had ~20 influence on all her companions by the end of Chapter 3 of the main storyline.

[CaptJames]

I'm sure someone has posted this...but please Eric, address the companion OP/nerfing issue.

 

lvl 60 Ziost time to heal 18k not in combat = 15 seconds, pre 4.0.2 this was 1-2 seconds. Which fine, is OPed. But I would expect maybe 5 seconds to do such an action as all heals are on CD.

 

I would hope for something in the middle, I expect people to complain more about this.

 

I was on my Sentinel alt in Ziost and quite frankly it felt like I was wearing green lvl 30s back in the old days, soldiering through Correllia. It was really not a "purple gear" feeling, since she is mostly 192s with a few 186s (50k HP total, full augments pre 4.0). The damage was fine the heals were just pathetic and it was not really keeping up with simple mob damage. Here are the stats from C2-N2 (Influence rank 10)

 

Progressive Kolto Scan 760 x 3 = 2280. It actually says 3011 over 3 seconds on the tooltip, so this is rubbish and wrong.

Kolto Quick Scan = 2.9k (2248 - 3711) ok fine seems to be alright. CD 7s.

Kolto Drip = 4.4k over 9s....ok but this not really good enough for 60+ I think.

 

Considering it took my companion to heal 18k health in 15 seconds without even being in combat, I highly doubt the Star Fortress Heroic 2+ will be solo-able by all players. It probably is,, but all it's going to do is turn a tedious 30 minute encounter into something longer.

 

And there is no point if Companions are OP anyway. No one learns anything until they do OPS, as we found this out in the all recent class 12XP boost, etc. And like you guys have been saying quote "we're going back to basics and making more story-driven content". Sounds like the opposite change. I don't want it to be as easy as pie...but this is why I suggested a tiered option for companions, so you can work on the ones you want. If not gear, some sort of "refinement".

 

Companions have gone to 20% (of 4.0), the dps companions are not as dire as the healing companions. But there damage has also been downed by 20%, possibly less than 20% of what it was in 4.0. Top damage ability down form 35k to 7k.

 

It really does not make grinding content very entertaining if I have to constantly be in a state of crap heals and waiting days for my dps companion to knock the damn thing down and be done with it.

 

I was concerned that with the forced thou companion shalt no longer have any gear, that they were going to be nerfed. Then you surprised us with ridiculously 21k heals and 35k hits. But now you have..well taken them a bit too far in the other direction..

 

Do you actually test these things and play a heroic 2+?..not just star fortresses, as this now applies to Planet Level Sync all heroic 2+, i don't even wanna think what C2-N2 heals at for level 24.

 

[JumperPenn]

I don't agree with the changes or the premise that companions were 'a bit' too powerful then you go to say they were far too powerful. Either they are a bit too powerful or they are way too powerful and by the nerfs it seems they were way too powerful which takes us to how such a drastic miscalulation was allowed to go live, yet again.

 

It is just another perfect example of how there isn't the testing/time invested to these major changes to do them right, as in not even close to right. BW as a company needs to do better with how you make major changes and either be much more conservative in the boons you give players so you aren't taking them back after a month, year, etc and punishing us for your mistakes and that's what keeps happening. This is an entertainment outlet and giving us 'cool' things letting us play with them then turning around and making them suck isn't a succeeding business model or an entertaining experience.

 

Better to give us stuffs that aren't as good as they should be then we complain you look at it and tweak it to make it better instead of giving us a god hammer then saying "no hammer is too powerful" and making it suck cause now we have god hammer experience and have become accustom to wielding it, also we get half your stuff.

 

I applaud the decision to share your thinking that needs to happen much more often. If it did then you could get more feedback before granting a 'cool' experience/thing only to snatch it back or make it suck.

[LordArtemis]

Ok, I checked when I logged in, some of the numbers are a bit concerning, others are not that bad.

 

First, it appears they fixed the armor and damage reduction problem for tanks....here are Khems numbers.

 

Original

 

Role: tank

 

Damage - 4025-4263

Bonus - 3482

Accuracy - 100%

Critical - 15.54

Multiplier - 50

Health - 115911

Armor - 0

Damage Reduction - 0.00

Defense 14.64

 

New numbers

 

Role: tank

 

Damage - 2129-2967

Bonus - 2186

Accuracy - 100%

Critical - 13.71

Multiplier - 50

Health - 91271

Armor - 6133

Damage Reduction - 27.22

Defense 11.68

 

As you can see, damage output was substantially reduced, the bonus was reduced around 40 percent at this IL. That concerns me a bit, as I think it should have been around 2400-3300. Also the health drop is only slightly higher than expected, should have been around 98000.

 

Other than that, the numbers look reasonable AND there is damage mitigation. Of course, in other roles the reductions may be felt more substantially.

 

IMO this reduction was a bit heavy at the top. Influence and presence needs a boost, but only slightly. This is likely very close to where the character should be, stat wise, IMO. Just this one mind you...I haven't looked at the others.

 

I will test out performance, but I expect it is going to need some adjustment. I can say pretty conclusively that this was TOO STRONG, but not by much. Certainly not as bad as I expected.

 

IMO the most important adjustment to make in the short term is damage.....followed by health. Perhaps simply boost everything a bit with a presence/influence effect boost.

Edited November 17, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Rosiemae]

Eric, Feed back as requested in OP:

Got up early before work to test (luckily I patched last night)

did a 2h in belsavis, each mob of 1 elite and a couple of strong's took my health beyond 10% using a stun on the elite until I finished with the others, my shield and health pot.

 

I got down to 1% on one fight, if a companion is supposed to be as good as a player I'd love to meet who they base this on..... maybe a 10yo?

So I tried a SF 2H, got through mobs quite easily, in fact much easier than a standard planetary 2H right up to the first boss...

My level 10 companion couldn't keep up with the praetorian, got it to 25% and it killed me, pre nerf no issues with this boss unless I was thrown over the balcony...

 

Trooper mix of 208 and 216 using Senja 10 influence.

Before you all say you need more influence I'd like to remind you that there is no influence requirement to the statement that we should be able to solo these and the companion is your 2nd "player"

I tried it before complaining like I said.

Not happy considering whether or not to cancel sub, I was really starting to enjoy this as a new solo friendly game, I love MMO's love the AH and seeing other people occasionally grouping when I choose, but I prefer to solo, its the way I have played all.

Finally I do not like being treated and paying for a beta tester, if I wanted to do that i'd have signed up.

 

Thank you for your analysis. I still have not gone into game as I am having to reinstall after the patching fiasco.

 

After reading many of these posts, my gut tells me my gut reaction to un-sub my accounts is most likely the best option. I will try my 30 influence Koth first though, just to have a look see. That said, this is just 1 of 6 level 60's that will be playable for me for a long while.

 

What you said about the beta testing is so true. The thing that EA/Bioware don't seem to understand is that when you give players something they enjoy, and then take it away, in a LIVE game, it's going to cause hard feelings.

 

Personally, and I want to think incorrectly but I'm not so sure, this was deliberate. I spent a lot more money in this game while enjoying it with the companions pre-nerf than I would have otherwise. Please the casuals, they spend money. Take the perks to casual away to please the other faction, they spend money.

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see how much the number of subscribers drop. I will be doing so as a F2P player if its as bad as I've read here.

[Blurch]

What type of developers do you have over there? This game has been nothing but laggy as hell and at times unplayable because nothing happens until your character dies. You have to constantly smash the same key to get the ability to go off and when it does your dead. I've been having issues with this new expansion and nothing is being done except thank you for notifying us or go to the help web sight which doesn't work. I but in a question and gives me answers about another game I never heard of. Did you even test this game? This is almost as bad as the Raven expansion where nothing worked and you changed your minds on training cost three days before the rest of the release, and I paid for that to get early access. The only thing good about this is that I didn't have to pay to get it because if I did I would have waited a month before getting it. There is no way in hell that I'm ever going to pay for early access again or an expansion when it comes out. Hell I didn't get the new Star Wars Battlefront because I know how your broken releases work and I may never buy it or another EA/Bioware game again.

 

And now your going to redo the Companions? I play a Scoundrel and you have done nothing but take stuff away from them. they have no offense or defense except disappearing act and half the time it doesn't work. You took away there heals and now there Companions that will allow them to Solo so now I will need a group to play my healer. I also have a Sage and Sorcerer and neither of them have this issue. Its getting harder and harder to play this game. So far the only thing you've done right is make a good store other than that its garbage.

 

Tell Tait and Eric not to bother posting about patch notes until you have the Notes typed and posted. One more thing and I know I'm not alone with this how you have taken away our old companions and have given us NO info on when we might be getting them back has really pissed some a lot of people off in including me. If you say click on that terminal thing on Odessa I have nothing happened but said something to the affect that all your characters that you can get have been granted already...... We don't wont spoilers just something like in Chapter 10 we get x, y, and z back. I can't wait till your contract is up with Disney. Had issues with no achievement granting last night no answer in the in-game support now the Launcher is stuck at 100% for over an hour and 30 min wait for support.... That's it I'm done f u Bioware/EA.

[Avalyssia]

I've done a few of the Belsavis heroics which are the more difficult out of the ones I do (I don't do any that take up too much effort for the reward) with a Sentinel in 208/216 gear with Senya as tank (rank level 30). It wasn't really that different - sure I had to introspect two or three times but otherwise it wasn't a big deal. If I feel like torturing myself later I might do a heroic SF to see what that's like.

[Joefjr]

Ok, I checked when I logged in, some of the numbers are a bit concerning, others are not that bad.

 

First, it appears they fixed the armor and damage reduction problem for tanks....here are Khems numbers.

 

Original

 

Role: tank

 

Damage - 4025-4263

Bonus - 3482

Accuracy - 100%

Critical - 15.54

Multiplier - 50

Health - 115911

Armor - 0

Damage Reduction - 0.00

Defense 14.64

 

New numbers

 

Role: tank

 

Damage - 2129-2967

Bonus - 2186

Accuracy - 100%

Critical - 13.71

Multiplier - 50

Health - 91271

Armor - 6133

Damage Reduction - 27.22

Defense 11.68

 

As you can see, damage output was substantially reduced, the bonus was reduced around 40 percent at this IL. That concerns me a bit, as I think it should have been around 2400-3300. Also the health drop is only slightly higher than expected, should have been around 98000.

 

Other than that, the numbers look reasonable AND there is damage mitigation. Of course, in other roles the reductions may be felt more substantially.

 

IMO this reduction was a bit heavy at the top. Influence and presence needs a boost, but only slightly. This is likely very close to where the character should be, stat wise, IMO. Just this one mind you...I haven't looked at the others.

 

I will test out performance, but I expect it is going to need some adjustment. I can say pretty conclusively that this was TOO STRONG, but not by much. Certainly not as bad as I expected.

 

IMO the most important adjustment to make in the short term is damage.....followed by health. Perhaps simply boost everything a bit with a presence/influence effect boost.

 

The funny part is the Dev's said that the fix for tank stats was in 6.0.3 and we just got 6.0.2...

[LordArtemis]

IMO, very early on mind you, I would suggest they simply need to boost influence and presence effect a bit more. it isn't enough right now IMO....but only just.

 

Meaning that probably a 5 percent boost would make it perfect, or close to it. Not too strong, not too weak.

 

Again, this is early...I haven't looked at a pure healer companion yet.

 

I also should look at Treek's performance as well.

[LordArtemis]

The funny part is the Dev's said that the fix for tank stats was in 6.0.3 and we just got 6.0.2...

 

I think that was smart...if they didnt put in the fix, and simply gimped the companions the tanks would have been turned into glass IMO.

 

Smart move on their part. Should mitigate the changes a bit, at least in a tank role.

[Calinaph]

I've seen enough. Put the companions back the way they were. You haven't made it "harder"- just more annoying. Edited November 17, 2015 by Calinaph

[Tarackian]

You want feedback?

 

Okay. You've crapped all over one of the best parts of this expansion. Finally, companions feel useful and because a vocal minority primal screamed on the forums about irrelevant, low-level content, you nerfed the hell out of them.

 

This is just the latest evidence that you don't do enough proper testing. First you ship companions that are too powerful because they weren't tested, and now you over-nerf them without testing it.

 

You really need to bring back the PTS.

 

At it stands, anyone who farmed the Star Fortresses with strong companions over the past several weeks probably already reaped the benefits of doing so. This change will only hurt new players and alts.

[LordArtemis]

Guys, It is just my opinion, but I don't think they made the changes because of forum feedback. If they had they would have likely nerfed companions FAR more.

 

Yes, this is a substantial nerf, but it could have been (and I expected it to be) MUCH worse.

 

The companions I have checked so far remain substantially stronger than they were pre 4.0....but taking level sync into account, that is not enough....they need a bit more.

 

The problem is NOT the current strength, IMO it never was....the problem is level sync and what that means to most players. With a forced level downgrade a very strong companion is needed to have a similar experience to what we had prior to 4.0...which frankly was close to faceroll being that we overleveled the areas.

 

Overleveling to make the content easier is no longer an option....a strong companion is the ONLY option now if you wish to solo.

 

The folks that wanted the game to be harder will likely be disappointed....they will likely still find companions OP, and they will likely still BE OP in certain situations, just not as many as before.

 

So it is likely, IMO, that this change will make the majority unhappy....mainly because it is a bit TOO strong for casual folks, but nowhere near strong enough for hardcore folks.

 

I think a bit of an adjustment upward would solve that and make most folks at least acceptable to the change.

Edited November 17, 2015 by LordArtemis

[ScarletBlaze]

One question,

 

Have you notice the buff bars for the companions only last 1 minute now.

[Nimwar]

Based on simple leveling, using my DPS spec/geared juggernaut, same tactics I have been using over the last few weeks and the only difference was that I had to be a little more careful when pulling gold/silver with multiple mobs.

 

At one point I had to use a defensive cooldown and another time I needed to heal up afterwards. So in my personal experience the only effect of the companion nerf is that I have to be ready to pop a cooldown occasionally and can't just faceroll everything.

[DanNV]

Of course the nerf was way over-done. BW always over nerfs and then seldom goes back and fixes what they have totally screwed up. I love the game, but there are idiots making decisions that need to go back to wriiting code in the corner or working check stands at WalMart. It's really time to buy some stock and go to share holder meetings and raise hell.

[Gromrosh]

I liked the companions before this patch now they are just rubbish dieing to 1 gold and 2 silver mobs is annoying as hell please restore them back to the last patch when they were perfect