These 4 threads all ask the same questions,can we get answers?

[Jedi_riches]

I assumed most people didn't need it completely spelled out for...but since you clearly don't seem to be able to comprehend it, I'll clarify for you...

 

Unless you are a Trooper, there's no way other than PvP to get him. He's an EXCLUSIVE to PvP unless you are a trooper.

 

Clearer? Still confused? Would you like me to draw you a picture to go with it?

 

I hate to say this since we have been getting along rather well this afternoon but the definition of the word exclusive according to the Oxford dictionary is Restricted to the person, group, or area concerned, in this case person, group or area connected would be defined as PvP and Warzone.

 

By having troopers bypassing this mission voids the exclusivity as it is now for more than 1 group ie trooper/warrior or PvP.

[Psychopyro]

Anyone complaining about unranked warzone queue times is a complete moron. Pops happen in less than 5 minutes at all times of the day or night. Ranked PvP is a joke and the casual player base of this game will never make it successful. There are a TON of people participating in PvP though. Just because you aren't doesn't mean they don't exist. Someone is filling up all those warzone and arena instances.

 

Yes, usually the same 30 people or so... At least that is pretty much what I see. Sadly it's usually the same 8 or 9 pubs and the same 20 or so Imps...

 

I would not say it is a ton. The only server I have been on with regular pops is Harb. I was on JC till I transferred back. Honestly JC was worse. Not only were the pops longer (10 to 15 minutes), but you usually ran into double premades of the same guild, didn't matter if you tried to change your queue position or not to keep from running into them. And usually the Pub team was 1 short... Hell probably 80% of my JC matches that were not premade on Pub side were 1 short.

[Jadescythe]

yeah, I'm calling shenanigans on this. You're in favor of this because 'diversity in gaming.'

 

yeah, I don't believe a single word of that. I'll also note that literally 99% of the players who've never PVPed before will end up hating PVP after being railroaded into doing at least 10-20 WZs to get a companion.

 

Let's be honest, okay? This is a blatant ridiculous attempt by BW to get people into WZs because...the vast majority of this player base does not like to PVP and the PVP base is suffering as a result.

 

But, rather than 'fix' the PVP issues in this game, they'd rather force the PVE majority to suffer through a bunch of stupid WZs that they don't want to do in the first place...or they'd already be doing them...in order to point to 'increased WZ participation!'

 

Because that's what this comes down to. It's about funneling the people who don't want to pvp...into pvp because reasons and therefore, comma.

 

It's stupid, it's short-sighted, it's self-defeating and it's gonna result in a lot more people hating PVP and PVPers in this game.

 

You know, WoW had this problem for a lot of years. They tied all kinds of stuff to their PVP to get people into it and all it did was piss people off. Now, finally, they've separated PVP and PVE and are working on revamping the PVP experience to make it better for everyone. No more PVP gear, everyone comes with a set amount of a PVP stat and long-term PVPers get cosmetic rewards instead.

 

It's crazy that I have to look at 'WoW' and see them doing a better job, but it is what it is.

 

I guess I apologize for enjoying more than one thing in this game. I know, it makes me a terrible person, but I can't help but play SWTOR to play SWTOR and not because of one specific aspect of the gameplay. I've leveled something like 20 or so characters to 55+ across 3 servers. I've PvPed in both regs and ranked on multiple classes. I've run FPs and Ops in SM and HM on different classes. I've maxed all crafting professions even though I prefer to avoid crafting. I've run dailies for credits. I've done the all the SF stuff and gotten all the currently available characters. I'm working on maxing affection for companions.

 

I'm just here to play the game and not necessarily repeat the same fetch and gather quests over and over to appease players who don't like something that others do.

[Infernixx]

Anyone complaining about unranked warzone queue times is a complete moron. Pops happen in less than 5 minutes at all times of the day or night. Ranked PvP is a joke and the casual player base of this game will never make it successful. There are a TON of people participating in PvP though. Just because you aren't doesn't mean they don't exist. Someone is filling up all those warzone and arena instances.

 

What's funny is that you're making blanket statements about queue times when there's no cross-server queue.

 

In short, you've no idea what queue times are like on any server other than your own. Meanwhile, the PVP forums talk constantly about long queue times, demanding cross-server queuing in order to get more pvp matches happening.

 

or are you going to state now that there's no demand for cross-server queuing in order to cut down on queue times?

[Jadescythe]

Yes, usually the same 30 people or so... At least that is pretty much what I see. Sadly it's usually the same 8 or 9 pubs and the same 20 or so Imps...

 

I would not say it is a ton. The only server I have been on with regular pops is Harb. I was on JC till I transferred back. Honestly JC was worse. Not only were the pops longer (10 to 15 minutes), but you usually ran into double premades of the same guild, didn't matter if you tried to change your queue position or not to keep from running into them. And usually the Pub team was 1 short... Hell probably 80% of my JC matches that were not premade on Pub side were 1 short.

 

I mainly play on Harb right now along with most of the US player base. But when I PvPed on SL prior to 4.0, I never waited more than 5 minutes for a pop unless it was 3 in the morning. I assume with the population going up on all servers, that hasn't changed.

 

I rarely see people I recognize in warzones unless I keep chain queuing and getting roughly the same teams, which makes sense when 16 people just got done and requeued. I've seen premades, but have not seen a double premade in 4.0. And when some of those premades wrecked our team, the massive difference in ability was the obvious reason for the loss.

[TUXs]

I think you miss the idea here.... Exclusive does not mean 2 groups, it means 1. Troopers are spared the PvP requirement. That does not make it exclusive. When you add unless (except. but, etc), it by DEFINITION EXCLUDES something from being exclusive, because it includes another way to get it. Did you fail basic English?

 

EDIT: To clarify, now you can say that for non troopers (warriors) it has a PvP requirement at this point. But it is in no way EXCLUSIVE to PvP...

You're insulting me, yet you're the one who was confused. Only you. Only you threw a tantrum. Only you needed the obvious spelled out. Everyone else is perfectly clear on what the situation is and how he's acquired...everyone buy YOU!

 

And I'll bet that you made that up, didn't you. Lol.

 

Who, me?!

[Infernixx]

I guess I apologize for enjoying more than one thing in this game. I know, it makes me a terrible person, but I can't help but play SWTOR to play SWTOR and not because of one specific aspect of the gameplay. I've leveled something like 20 or so characters to 55+ across 3 servers. I've PvPed in both regs and ranked on multiple classes. I've run FPs and Ops in SM and HM on different classes. I've maxed all crafting professions even though I prefer to avoid crafting. I've run dailies for credits. I've done the all the SF stuff and gotten all the currently available characters. I'm working on maxing affection for companions.

 

I'm just here to play the game and not necessarily repeat the same fetch and gather quests over and over to appease players who don't like something that others do.

 

And yet, no one cares. The simple reality is that most players aren't PVPing, have no desire to PVP and yet it keeps getting shoved at us in order to increase WZ usage and maybe shut up the crying from the PVPers about long queue times.

 

This whole thread is proof that PVP isn't a widely liked or enjoyed part of the game. There's no great effort being put into shoving people into Operations or HM FPs. I guess that's because the majority of players are already doing that stuff.

 

If you have to lock things behind WZ participation, that's a great big white flag waving around screaming "We have no idea how to lure people into PVP, so we'll just make em do it even if they hate it. We won't make them actually try to win, just being in there is enough for us because 'wz participation!'"

[freeoftime]

In any case, literally everyone but those that enjoy farming inexperienced or AFK players gets screwed by the current system. PVP players get screwed because they end up with unmotivated or AFK players messing up their game, PVEers get screwed because they have to do something they dislike or even hate to move on with the quest chain behind which there are potentially companions they used to have already gated (like with Qyzen and Lokin for agents) and people who enjoy the story get screwed over because it's always the same grind on every alt and they can't reject companions their character wouldn't recruit to get companions their character would recruit.

 

It's a bad system that desperately needs to be revised, period.

[TUXs]

I hate to say this since we have been getting along rather well this afternoon but the definition of the word exclusive according to the Oxford dictionary is Restricted to the person, group, or area concerned, in this case person, group or area connected would be defined as PvP and Warzone.

 

By having troopers bypassing this mission voids the exclusivity as it is now for more than 1 group ie trooper/warrior or PvP.

Whatever Webster. Fill in another word if you're also confused, but Troopers would be the "exclusion".

[Master-Nala]

Its actually a serious question on my part as I am really struggling to understand why members of the PvP community are so set on keeping it as it is.

 

I'm for keeping 4X/Pierce the same for the same reasons that I'm for keeping Qyzen the same.

 

1) It's not onerous as it is. Killing a few world bosses or playing some PvP isn't worth all this digital angst.

 

2) Every activity should be rewarding. I think Lokin was a wasted opportunity to make crew skills even more integrated for example.

 

3) This game is getting real close to removing all struggle, all learning. I'm sure plenty of people hate (i.e. are scared of) PvP. That's fine, but I've often challenged myself to move out of my comfort zone. We don't grow by staying stagnant. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game for discussions of what elements allow something to call itself a 'game'. Right now, we are close to turning this game into a toy. Something you play with, but in no way could be called a game.

 

I have seen a few concession ideas that may work to help at least alleviate the PvE'ers "problems" while keeping PvP as a main idea like vastly reduced match requirements but have the influence as the "incentive" to keep PvP'ing or having this valor ranking legacy wide (how long does it take to reach valor 40 anyway) but if that was the case my concession on that would be have say legacy 30 but each character would have to do 1 war zone to complete quest as it would not make much sense to gain these companions for actions that another has done alone.

 

Some of those are reasonable, but they need changes. For example, I actually believe that we would be better served by having the quest only count wins, but only require 5-6 wins. Alternatively and better in my opinion is to require a player to earn 8 medals in 5-6 games.

 

As for Legacy Valor, that would be fine too, but Legacy 30 would be far too low. Something like Legacy 70. Remember this is across all characters and is supposed to be a by-pass for people who PvP regularly.

[Jadescythe]

What's funny is that you're making blanket statements about queue times when there's no cross-server queue.

 

In short, you've no idea what queue times are like on any server other than your own. Meanwhile, the PVP forums talk constantly about long queue times, demanding cross-server queuing in order to get more pvp matches happening.

 

or are you going to state now that there's no demand for cross-server queuing in order to cut down on queue times?

 

If you read deeper, almost all of those are in reference to ranked PvP. And cross server improves more than just population and would serve PvE well too. The bigger the population, the more you can do to enhance match quality through role, skill, and group matchmaking. It's why a game like LoL can group 10 people into a game with 3 elo points of each other and SWTOR is lucky to find two people within 100.

 

I don't think there is any doubt that many servers have a significantly lower population and that isn't only impacting PvP. I don't foresee those servers being around much longer. The PvP servers especially won't last long as, like you've pointed out before, the PvP focused player base is small. For those wanting a more varied experience that includes PvP, a PvE server is a better home to find groups for PvE content.

[sentientomega]

ONE WARZONE! Win, lose, or draw.

 

That's all any PvP-gated companion should require...

 

With a HK-51-style Legacy CCs-/credits-unlock function...

Edited November 13, 2015 by sentientomega

[Infernixx]

If you read deeper, almost all of those are in reference to ranked PvP. And cross server improves more than just population and would serve PvE well too. The bigger the population, the more you can do to enhance match quality through role, skill, and group matchmaking. It's why a game like LoL can group 10 people into a game with 3 elo points of each other and SWTOR is lucky to find two people within 100.

 

I don't think there is any doubt that many servers have a significantly lower population and that isn't only impacting PvP. I don't foresee those servers being around much longer. The PvP servers especially won't last long as, like you've pointed out before, the PvP focused player base is small. For those wanting a more varied experience that includes PvP, a PvE server is a better home to find groups for PvE content.

 

So, you 'do' want cross-server to shorten queue times even though you've already said that queue times are fine.

 

lol

[Jadescythe]

So, you 'do' want cross-server to shorten queue times even though you've already said that queue times are fine.

 

lol

 

I mean, would anyone object to short queue times being even shorter? If told you that you only had to wait behind one person at the DMV, would you object to the line dropping to 0?

 

But as I noted and you chose to skip over, it would make for better matches, not more matches.

[Master-Nala]

Question to anyone:

 

Taking aside the PvP requirement for a second. Do you believe that non-class companions should require effort to attain, whatever the method?

 

 

To give you an extreme example to illustrate my question. Let's say that the devs created a quest that awarded either Light-Side or Dark-Side Jaesa Wilsaam. The quest ended by defeating her in solo combat. Now let's assume further that you couldn't use another companion and that the devs roughly made her as difficult as an elite, but with much smarter use of her abilities. So as a dual-blade user, they gave her the full skill set of a 65 Shadow/Assassin without any of the artificial limitations on NPCs to make them easier.

 

Finally, let's say that in practice only 20% of the people will get her on the first try, perhaps another 60% with retries and effort, and about 20% just will never be good enough to beat her.

 

Is that OK?

Edited November 13, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Infernixx]

I mean, would anyone object to short queue times being even shorter? If told you that you only had to wait behind one person at the DMV, would you object to the line dropping to 0?

 

But as I noted and you chose to skip over, it would make for better matches, not more matches.

 

Oh sure, that's what I hear in Fleet chat constantly. A demand for 'better' matches. Not a steady stream of crying over long queue times and the occasional gloating about how one group of PVPers totally smashed another group of PVPers.

[Jedi_riches]

For example, I actually believe that we would be better served by having the quest only count wins, but only require 5-6 wins. Alternatively and better in my opinion is to require a player to earn 8 medals in 5-6 games.

 

I admit that I have no psychology degree, but I was trying to suggest ways to bring this quest down to the simplest it can be, so that it is totally accessible to your average noob player and that there is no shock or awe problems by doing so, I would worry though that by adding in requirements like only wins or medals gained might seem too much for someone entering a PvP match for the first time and in many cases it may indeed bring us back to exactly this same arguements with people going afk etc as the requirements may be off puting.

 

I think going as simple as possible makes PvP more assesable and knowing win, loose or draw its short enough people would take part rather than sit on the side lines (I know I would), at least this way those that still afk and don't sish to take part won't be there for very long.

[robertthebard]

All of your original companions are already unlocked without any PvP. It's the BONUS companions that aren't.

 

No, they're not. Khem Val is unavailable on the console. I haven't checked my other toons yet to see if they have similar circumstances. So yes, some of them, likely most of them are, but I can already definitively show that all of them aren't.

[orangenkaiser]

Question to anyone:

 

Taking aside the PvP requirement for a second. Do you believe that non-class companions should require effort to attain, whatever the method?

 

 

To give you an extreme example to illustrate my question. Let's say that the devs created a quest that awarded either Light-Side or Dark-Side Jaesa Wilsaam. The quest ended by defeating her in solo combat. Now let's assume further that you couldn't use another companion and that the devs roughly made her as difficult as an elite, but with much smarter use of her abilities. So as a dual-blade user, they gave her the full skill set of a 65 Shadow/Assassin without any of the artificial limitations on NPCs to make them easier.

 

Finally, let's say that in practice only 20% of the people will get her on the first try, perhaps another 60% with retries and effort, and about 20% just will never be good enough to beat her.

 

Is that OK?

 

Yes, all of these companions should have some kind of effort to attain them. But you should have the option of saying, "No, you're not worth the effort" and not be penalized for it by not being able to recruit the next companion in the chain.

 

This expansion is supposed to be about choices that matter. Give us the choice to recruit these companions or not and move on with the quest chain.

 

That's all bioware needs to do. Add the dialogue option, [Refuse to recruit this Ally], followed with a popup box telling people the decision is final and asking for confirmation. Problem solved.

[SkybladeDarkstar]

Oh sure, that's what I hear in Fleet chat constantly. A demand for 'better' matches. Not a steady stream of crying over long queue times and the occasional gloating about how one group of PVPers totally smashed another group of PVPers.

 

Yeah, honestly, I think cross-server queues would just kill PvP even more. Winding up lower on ranked ladders, and dealing with more hostility and name calling would drive even more players out of the PvP experience, until eventually there's no one left.

[Master-Nala]

Yes, all of these companions should have some kind of effort to attain them. But you should have the option of saying, "No, you're not worth the effort" and not be penalized for it by not being able to recruit the next companion in the chain.

 

This expansion is supposed to be about choices that matter. Give us the choice to recruit these companions or not and move on with the quest chain.

 

That's all bioware needs to do. Add the dialogue option, [Refuse to recruit this Ally], followed with a popup box telling people the decision is final and asking for confirmation. Problem solved.

 

I've said it before, but that's absolutely reasonable.

 

For my part, I have several alerts still sitting there undone because I feel like we have too many companions now.

[orangenkaiser]

I've said it before, but that's absolutely reasonable.

 

For my part, I have several alerts still sitting there undone because I feel like we have too many companions now.

 

Same here. Stupid glowing fist icon on my sage and guardian (the only two I've bothered to do kotfe with). My sage because I don't care enough about doing the Starfortresses and pvp, my guardian because I don't care enough about 4x to put forth the effort to get him.

 

I think my biggest issue isn't the companions themselves, it's that stupid glowing fist icon that annoys me. Please Bioware, let me get rid of it! lol

[robertthebard]

OK smart guy, what would make PvP appealing. I note you didn't offer a solution yourself.

 

For my part, I like that M1-4X required PvP. And what does a frikken Rancor or other mount have to do with PvP? Or titles? Or color crystals? Or any of the other cosmetic crap they give as rewards for ranked? Nothing. But people sure work their butt off to earn them.

 

So until you have a brilliant idea that will make PvP appealing, nice fail yourself.

 

I have one:

 

Make it relevant. Tie it into Conquest, and cut crafting all the way out, but I'm not talking 123 go. I'm talking set up a system where a guild that wants to conquer a planet actually has to conquer it, and if two guilds are vying for it, they have to fight it out. This system exists in two MMOs that I play, or have played. In Rappelz, you take control of the leveling dungeons. Your guild gets paid a percentage of whatever currency drops and lak, which is another form of currency there. In Aion, you fight for forts, which also have payouts, although I'm not sure what those are, my faction was severely outnumbered, and it was rough to get a fort to see, so I can't remember what they were.

 

PvP means something, because in the former example, guilds can spend the week running Time Attacks on your dungeon, and the winner gets to fight you for control. In the latter the forts become vulnerable, and can be attacked. So they need to create this system, tie it to conquest, and presto, it means something other than "hey, I got a mount"... Yay? A PvE reward for PvP?

[eartharioch]

On the off chance that anybody from BW is still reading at this point:

 

1) I'm ok with a couple of comps being "gated" by PVP in some way if the writers think it fits those characters. I think the method chosen was pretty unimaginative, and afk and sabotage from an outraged PVE-ONLY crowd easily foreseen.

 

2) I'm not ok with comps being gated behind other comps (at least the way Lokin is to Qyzen), and I'm really not ok with having to recruit comps that I don't want for a given character's alliance just to get a comp that I do want.

 

I thought KotFE was supposed to be about companion choice -- as in *me* choosing which comps I want to recruit and use. All that this expansion has done so far is increase the number of companions that I don't want but have to get and can then choose not to use.

 

Well, that's not true -- KotFE has also made it pointless to even want most of the companions, since they are almost all identical now (and most of the story ones can't be customized).

 

Companions should be made relevant (as other than just arm candy) -- I'd like my choice of which companions to recruit actually have in game consequences.

[robertthebard]

Yeah, honestly, I think cross-server queues would just kill PvP even more. Winding up lower on ranked ladders, and dealing with more hostility and name calling would drive even more players out of the PvP experience, until eventually there's no one left.

 

This is an already observable effect; check out server populations on PvPcentric servers.