Pre-4.0 Companions were OP, Post 4.0 Companions are trash

[knowmyname]

remember when we would do Hard Mode Flashpoints ( HMFP ) solo...

 

you were geared, your companion was geared. and you would enter the foundry, battle of ilum, cademimu, or false emperor with just you and your companion. I would take players through them just for the HK parts. just me and my companion and some PvE scrub along for the ride to get his/her loot.

 

well, take them in there now. its not going to go very well. these companions suck when compared to previous versions.

 

the pre-4.0 companions were very easy to customize and tweak their stats. the cookie cutter post 4.0 companions are just farts in the wind in comparison. we could set kaliyo as dps or tank and she would do a great job at it. you could have vette do single target dps or aoe them down. sorry these post-4.0 companions melt when they see the silver dogs jump on them. they cant take the beating they could pre-4.0

 

though there are a few threads out there that say otherwise. sure they can take on multiple weak mobs but throw in a few silvers or golds and they fizzle away quietly. they have no defenses.

 

some say pre-4.0 GameIsHard - now these players are complaining companions are OP, yet these people never did Hard Mode Content with companions before 4.0

 

post 4.0 companions are weak when compared to properly geared pre-4.0 companions

[Khevar]

remember when we would do Hard Mode Flashpoints ( HMFP ) solo...

You mean, back when we were 10 levels above the content, had 99.99% damage reduction, and could do the thing complete naked with no companion out at all?

[Glower]

My 3.0 comps with 980+ presence carried me through all these x12 planets even with outdated gear (dinged 50 with mixed 10-20-35lvl greens both on me and on my comp).

 

Yes it is easier now. But KOTFE is a single player "interactive drama", so it should be easier! Just look at all these PS4 games.

[Deyjarl]

This would be because of scaling not companions.

[knowmyname]

being level 50 and doing these level 50 HM flashpoints

 

im not talking about being level 55 doing level 50 HMFP, or level 60 doing level 50 HMFP. fanboys always have an excuse

 

did you not take that challenge? or did you need the crutch of a buddy or 3??

Edited October 29, 2015 by knowmyname

[Halinalle]

You mean, back when we were 10 levels above the content, had 99.99% damage reduction, and could do the thing complete naked with no companion out at all?

 

There's few videos of Assassins soloing 50HMs at 50 from 2012.

There used to be a video of Assassin soloing Athiss HM at level 55 pre-3.0 but I can't seem to find it anymore.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Halinalle

[Draqsko]

remember when we would do Hard Mode Flashpoints ( HMFP ) solo...

 

you were geared, your companion was geared. and you would enter the foundry, battle of ilum, cademimu, or false emperor with just you and your companion. I would take players through them just for the HK parts. just me and my companion and some PvE scrub along for the ride to get his/her loot.

 

well, take them in there now. its not going to go very well. these companions suck when compared to previous versions.

 

the pre-4.0 companions were very easy to customize and tweak their stats. the cookie cutter post 4.0 companions are just farts in the wind in comparison. we could set kaliyo as dps or tank and she would do a great job at it. you could have vette do single target dps or aoe them down. sorry these post-4.0 companions melt when they see the silver dogs jump on them. they cant take the beating they could pre-4.0

 

though there are a few threads out there that say otherwise. sure they can take on multiple weak mobs but throw in a few silvers or golds and they fizzle away quietly. they have no defenses.

 

some say pre-4.0 GameIsHard - now these players are complaining companions are OP, yet these people never did Hard Mode Content with companions before 4.0

 

post 4.0 companions are weak when compared to properly geared pre-4.0 companions

 

From what I'm seeing in my parses in doing this flashpoints as tactical versions with companions replacing group members that quit out, companions don't seem to have the armor damage reduction that players get, even light armor looks like it has more DR than what companions have natively.

 

Colonel Dashk: Eye laser hits me for 35k max, hits my companion for 54k max, those are both crits.

Lord Hasper: Force storm hits me for 18k max, hits my companion for 29k max. Shock is just like the eye laser above, hits me for 35k max, and my companion for 54k max, even my girlfriend's sage only took a 40k hit from shock.

 

Putting them in tank stance didn't even change the damage received on non-shielded hits. Still 29k damage on Hasper's FS, although Unity does work and reduced Shock to 27k hits and FS to 14k. But that's all your companion will last in even tacticals if they start taking real damage, the duration of Unity.

 

PS. This is all T7, who used to be considered heavy armor geared.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Draqsko

[Draqsko]

There's few videos of Assassins soloing 50HMs at 50 from 2012.

There used to be a video of Assassin soloing Athiss HM at level 55 pre-3.0 but I can't seem to find it anymore.

 

Quick google search and this pops up:

 

 

Marauder with Quinn soloing D7 HM at level 50.

[Khevar]

There's few videos of Assassins soloing 50HMs at 50 from 2012.

There used to be a video of Assassin soloing Athiss HM at level 55 pre-3.0 but I can't seem to find it anymore.

Of course.

 

It's just bizarre that the OP is making weird comparisons of "how we all used to solo HM FPs", as some sort of odd argument to try and prove that "companions were OP before and are now trash"

 

The OP cannot solo HM FPs now and is blaming his failure on his companions.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Khevar

[Mikahrone]

being level 50 and doing these level 50 HM flashpoints

 

im not talking about being level 55 doing level 50 HMFP, or level 60 doing level 50 HMFP. fanboys always have an excuse

 

did you not take that challenge? or did you need the crutch of a buddy or 3??

 

With gearflation, sure. What was highest gear rating obtainable @lvl 50 again?

Edited October 29, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Dras_Keto]

Once 'we' get more gear, and increase the influence on a companion to max, I seriously doubt we will have much of a problem soloing current HMFPs anyway.

 

I did what Im sure was the tactical version of Battle of Ilum and False Emperor (even though it said it was HM) while cleaning up the story on my level 60 vanguard with just a 10 influence Elara. Did the entire thing specced AP, too. It was a joke.

[Draqsko]

I've found an issue with companions.

 

Inside level sync'd areas they have an armor rating appropriate for gear of that level. Outside of level sync'd areas, ie flashpoints, stronghold, guild ships, they do not have an armor rating regardless of the companion (well not sure on KOTFE companions since I have not started that storyline so can't check them, but all original companions and ship droids). Even flashpoints that are rated as 2+, for example CZ labs tactical recommends a 2 player group plus companions, they do not have an armor rating at all and therefore do have armor damage reduction.

 

Standing outside the flashpoint, in CZ-198, T7 has 49k hp, 4999 armor rating, 25.98% armor damage reduction, and 9.45% defense chance.

 

Go inside, T7 has 96194 hp, 0 armor rating, 0 armor damage reduction, and 14.64% defense chance. My vigilance guardian has 34.5% armor damage reduction, making my 69k hp last longer than a tank companion's.

 

I think this is a big reason why people are having massive differences of experience with companions. In level sync areas, they are better in endurance, mastery and power than most players, and have some armor rating so they aren't entirely getting nuked. The rest of us who find them quite weak are trying to use them outside of level sync'd areas where they completely lack armor rating and are getting one or two shot by champions or FP bosses.

[Zakua]

I've found an issue with companions.

 

Inside level sync'd areas they have an armor rating appropriate for gear of that level. Outside of level sync'd areas, ie flashpoints, stronghold, guild ships, they do not have an armor rating regardless of the companion (well not sure on KOTFE companions since I have not started that storyline so can't check them, but all original companions and ship droids). Even flashpoints that are rated as 2+, for example CZ labs tactical recommends a 2 player group plus companions, they do not have an armor rating at all and therefore do have armor damage reduction.

 

Standing outside the flashpoint, in CZ-198, T7 has 49k hp, 4999 armor rating, 25.98% armor damage reduction, and 9.45% defense chance.

 

Go inside, T7 has 96194 hp, 0 armor rating, 0 armor damage reduction, and 14.64% defense chance. My vigilance guardian has 34.5% armor damage reduction, making my 69k hp last longer than a tank companion's.

 

I think this is a big reason why people are having massive differences of experience with companions. In level sync areas, they are better in endurance, mastery and power than most players, and have some armor rating so they aren't entirely getting nuked. The rest of us who find them quite weak are trying to use them outside of level sync'd areas where they completely lack armor rating and are getting one or two shot by champions or FP bosses.

 

Interesting, I had not noticed this but it would answer my "***" ragding my comps in certain areas haha.

[HarleysRule]

This would be because of scaling not companions.

 

This^^^

[Draqsko]

Interesting, I had not noticed this but it would answer my "***" ragding my comps in certain areas haha.

 

I noticed it looking at combat log, and T7's K/E damage profile was much higher than my guardian's even with T7 in tank stance. 54k biggest hit versus 35k biggest hit is about a 35% difference, which is what my guardian's armor DR is. Went and doubled checked it and sure enough, armor rating 0, armor damage reduction 0%.

[Khevar]

I noticed it looking at combat log, and T7's K/E damage profile was much higher than my guardian's even with T7 in tank stance. 54k biggest hit versus 35k biggest hit is about a 35% difference, which is what my guardian's armor DR is. Went and doubled checked it and sure enough, armor rating 0, armor damage reduction 0%.

I think there is also a bug related to the fact that they don't equip an offhand anymore.

 

In tank stance, the companion shows values in the Shield and Absorb rating, but if you hover over those ratings, it translates into 0% actual shield and absorb. I also didn't see any shielded or absorbed hits in the combat log for a companion in tank mode.

 

My guess would be, because they're not actually "equipping" a shield offhand, the rating doesn't do anything.

[Draqsko]

I think there is also a bug related to the fact that they don't equip an offhand anymore.

 

In tank stance, the companion shows values in the Shield and Absorb rating, but if you hover over those ratings, it translates into 0% actual shield and absorb. I also didn't see any shielded or absorbed hits in the combat log for a companion in tank mode.

 

My guess would be, because they're not actually "equipping" a shield offhand, the rating doesn't do anything.

 

Yes, in non level sync'd areas they have no Force or Tech power, just checked. It's just 0, but in level synced areas they do have it (792ish for CZ-198). And yes, they get no shield procs in either place.

 

So that means they can only avoidance tank, since they have no armor and no shield.

[knowmyname]

Companions do ok in tactical and these heroic 2+ but due to zero defenses get blown away in HMFP

 

Pierce is at rank 50 influence and has over 100k HP. depends on the area amd if tank or dps/healer stance is selected. Can be 117k, 136k, 101k from what I've seen so far. But still has a big fat goose egg for defenses. What's the point of being a tank if you don't have a shirld, absorb and defense rating? He looks like these nonners running around with large HP pools but melts when sneezed on in operations.

 

I did one of the new star fortress heroics today and the final boss was ok but pierce set to tank and all I did was move him out of the AOE and pour heals into him. He was very squishy. Not an easy task, keeping him topped off. Better defenses would make that job a bit easier and I could dps more. Where as during pre-4.0 HMFP boss fights I would dps more and every now and then toss out a heal. Companïon was geared properly for the fight and defenses were good to go.

 

I'm using my operative healer and these companions are garbage. It's not my build or play style. I know what I'm doing and know the fights. It's not a L2P issue. It's junk companions. Argue all you want but inside HMFP they are worthless.

 

Whereas pre-4.0 companions were better than most players. More abilities, nodded gear, stats that actually mattered and functioned, able to select better stances (Single target DPS, AOE DPS, Tank, healer)

 

4.0 dumbed down crew skills, heroics, companions, gear, and stats just to name a few. Sure companions do ok in general open world situations. But the challenging areas where the big dogs played nerds companions. Maybe it's by design to force us to group up instead of soloing HMFP on farm like we did pre-4.0

 

All I'm saying is companions are hot garbage now. They are so screwed up we might as well just call them pets. Just as any other MMO does. Dress up your dolly and put them on display. That's all they good for. Oh and crew skill gathering I guess, if you're too lazy to farm nodes.

 

I can tell those that never even attempted to solo HMFP by their replies. If you didnt, this thread isn't for you.

Edited October 30, 2015 by knowmyname

[knowmyname]

Once 'we' get more gear, and increase the influence on a companion to max, I seriously doubt we will have much of a problem soloing current HMFPs anyway.

 

I did what Im sure was the tactical version of Battle of Ilum and False Emperor (even though it said it was HM) while cleaning up the story on my level 60 vanguard with just a 10 influence Elara. Did the entire thing specced AP, too. It was a joke.

 

I'm using pierce and he is max influence.

I'm using my op healer in 216/220 gear

 

I plan on doing foundry tonight as more testing is never a bad idea. But so far things aren't going very well. These companions can't take a hit.

 

HM Cademimu was a joke. Companions don't like burst and their HP pool is so high it's hard to keep them topped off. Pre-4.0 companions could tank the wookie and pigs. No problem, but now they simply melt on the first wave.

Edited October 30, 2015 by knowmyname

[Khevar]

Now, let me first say that I get what you're saying about the broken defensive stats. Absolutely this should be fixed. And I imagine that once fixed, tanky companions in HM FPs will change drastically.

 

But this statement I completely disagree with:

Whereas pre-4.0 companions were better than most players. More abilities, nodded gear, stats that actually mattered and functioned, able to select better stances (Single target DPS, AOE DPS, Tank, healer)

TANK:

Companion tank abilities were mostly worthless compared to player tanks. Hardly any DCDs, no ability-based mitigation buffs, could NEVER keep aggro outside of their 6-second taunts. Their surviveability as a tank was absolute crap. And +Presence boosts only affected HP, Damage and Bonus healing -- it did nothing for defensive stats.

 

Now, with the broken defense in 4.0, I get why you're saying survivability in HM FPs is crap. But it's silly to say how great they were pre 4.0. Unless you're saying you solo'ed HM Blood Hunt with your companion as a tank and you as a healer? Which I wouldn't believe anyway, as companion tank dps wouldn't be enough to beat that enrage timer, because ...

 

DAMAGE:

Companion DPS was also terrible. A melee dps companion in exsanguination stance (the highest damage possible -- better than HK) kitted out in 192/198 gear, could pull about 1600 dps on a flashpoint boss. This is easy to beat as a player by gently rolling your face back and forth on the keyboard.

 

With 4.0, I parsed M1-4X (rank 50 influence) on the fleet training dummy in dps stance at ~5600 dps. That's a 3.5x increase over 3.0 levels. Suddenly damage output of a max influence companion is on a par with a very good player, and probably better than the vast majority of dps players in the game.

 

HEALING:

Companion healing was ALSO terrible. The only thing they had going for them was no energy management requirements. All healing abilities could be activated on CD. But the incoming effective healing was below incoming damage profiles of most at-level flashpoint bosses. The at-level solo HM FPs that I've seen videos of were with really good tank players that could effectively mitigate the incoming damage below the lackluster healing output of the companion.

 

Post 4.0, the healing profile of a high-influence companion has also gone up considerably (similar to damage).

 

TL;DR; If you're going to complain about anything, complain about the broken defensive stats on companion tanks. Saying they were "more powerful before" is a misdirection and is untrue.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Khevar

[LordArtemis]

I did die a few times with lower level characters, lower level companions without bonuses. They are most definitely weaker on the low end.

 

On the high end, however, they are quite powerful with all of the bonuses in place.

 

I think the current system, as it is set up, is just right.

[Stradlin]

 

Yes it is easier now. But KOTFE is a single player "interactive drama", so it should be easier! Just look at all these PS4 games.

 

 

Biggest AAA exclusive PS4 has is a game infamous for it's harsh and unforgiving difficulty.

 

Often you see people actually comparing KOTFE to Walking Dead and other Telltale games. "It is alright entire story in KOTFE is a complete faceroll where players basically can't fail; It's like Walking Dead!!" Tis hilarious how people forget Walking Dead absolutely gives opportunity/freedom for players to mess up and fail. On one hand, you'll get like half a dozen scenes that can lead to a very traditional game over - screen. Far more importantly, large portion of dialog and decisions in Walking Dead were made to be very fast phased by design. You need to think, act and decide quickly. Player can absolutely end up feeling he has made the " wrong decision" for not having time to think it over: it is meant to be part of the charm.

 

Of course, these things combined don't exactly make story of Walking Dead " a hard game" but it def gives you plenty of opportunities to " fail" or end up feeling you've made a mistake. Having this "freedom" does good for you, in any game. KOTFE's dialog completely lacks this design element. It is never time bound and is never build to be fast or intense. It isn't even meant to offer tough decision making ; Esc gives an easy escape.

 

TLDR: Even Telltale games are harder than playing through KOTFE's story.

[knowmyname]

ran Pierce through Boarding Party tactical and though he is influence 50 it wasn't the smoothest run. burst DPS and this companion melts. too many adds and this companion melts. sure his DPS is high caliber but his defenses are zero. its basically an energy work out to keep him healed during burst DPS phases.

 

image of the differences and compared to my main

http://mrdeids.com/Liquor/Images/SWTOR/SWTOR_4-0_Companion_Stats_Pierce_Influence_50.png

 

notice there are stats for defense, absorb, and shield on Pierce, yet when you mouse over them, they are "empty" and the most of the companion's stats are significantly less than my main's stats

 

when companions wore gear their stats were much closer to the character's stats. they were able to take hits much better. companions are glass cannons with high HP pools.

Edited October 31, 2015 by knowmyname

[VitalityPrime]

I'll be honest...I really think part of me just misses all the abilities our companions used to have, and actually gearing them up. I honestly liked that.

 

Don't get me wrong...I love that we can now have our companions in any role we want...I just wish they could have found a way to add that, while keeping companions as they were.

 

I remember coming up with an idea, that I, of course, thought would have been perfect.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=697927

Edited October 31, 2015 by VitalityPrime

[knowmyname]

I'll be honest...I really think part of me just misses all the abilities our companions used to have, and actually gearing them up. I honestly liked that.

 

agreed, we were able to tweak their build just as much as we could with our main character's build stats. adjust crit, curge, defense, absorb, shield, power, main stat. i left out accuracy and alacrity since the companions didnt use those stats.

 

gearing a companion or multiple companions was not hard. was not a challenge, it was easy once you figured out what gear to use and how stats worked. ive played more advanced games than pre-4.0 SWTOR. post 4.0 swtor is child's play. i feel dumber just thinking about how simple it has gotten.

Edited October 31, 2015 by knowmyname