Is This Really What People Want??

[Jumajin]

YES ... this is what I want ...

 

I am also an seasoned mmo player ... having started pre - CU Star Wars Galaxies ... back then that was how mmo's played ... you had to LIVE it ... I was one of the most popular Tailors on my server (due to keeping my prices low) ... I hated how others kept inflating the prices & they hated me for keeping gear prices in the range of new players instead of 'Alt Prices' ... my Pistoleer/Tailor traveled the galaxy gathering mats for my crafting ... lived in my Guild run city ... slowly doing the questline to become a jedi ... mmo's were very different back then ... only certain types of players played mmo's, because of the huge time sink they were if you wished to progress ... and I loved it ...

I played City of Heroes when it launched ... had to deal with huge XP Dept when my level 5's died ... eventually they pushed that back so you could die all the way to level 10 without accruing dept ... & there was Outcry from the 'Hardcore' ... Early Guild Wars when it was primarily a pvp game ... but ArenaNet realised the bulk (90%+) were actually only there for the pre-pvp story (the tutorial) ... and Guild Wars changed to become more PvE focused ... there was an outcry ... I have played most of the mmo's during the past 13 years ... the only ones I have never played are the pvp ones, as I have no interest in pvp ... or PK's (some of you wil know what they are) ...

 

Over the course of those 13 years those games, those mmo's changed ... they adapted to what players were wanting ... gone were the open-world sandbox mmo's of STG ... mmo's became more 'Mainstream' & no longer the clique market ... they had to adapt to bring in new players ... then World of Warcraft entered the scene & changed mmo's completely ... the fact it was so popular showed the other companies what they needed to do in order to stay viable ... those that refused to adapt fell ... two of my favourite mmo's are no longer with us (R.I.P. CoH/TR) ...

 

The fact that swtor's servers are swelling kind of prove that this was the right move ...

 

A lot of my old Guild mates, player friends no longer play mmo's because they could not adapt to how mmo's evolved ... they fell by the wayside ... whilst I adapted and evolved with them ... I will always be playing mmo's ... because I enjoy them ... I have been with swtor since it was first announced, two to three years before launch - I was in the beta ... I have been very disappointed in swtor since launch & I stopped coming back ... for months on end ... whilst I played other mmo's ... my highest here in all the time since launch (over both accounts) is a 46 Shadow ... but I got tired of the slow grind.

 

4.0 brought me back, has put swtor back on the radar as a game worth playing ...

 

SWTOR never lived up to expectations ... so much hype only to fall flat on its face ... dwindling player numbers meant server merges as servers were becoming barren ... swtor was dying a slow death ... until 4.0 shocked it back to life ...

 

So, again, YEAH ... this is what I want from SWTOR ... this is what swtor should have been from launch ... I was here on these forums fighting to keep stuff that due to loud noises from dissenters were dropped ... companions were greatly nerfed to the point of a joke ...

 

Now I am back because this is EXACTLY what I want from SWTOR ... this game now feels MORE like a BioWare game ... in the same ilk as Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect & Dragonage ... that is what we were expecting from swtor upon first rumours so long ago ...

 

 

As a professional author, your over-usage and incorrect usage of ellipses makes me want to beat you to death. Commas and semicolons are your friends.

 

That said, I agree with your post.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Jumajin

[Zakua]

HYPERBOLE incoming!!!

 

It just smashed right into my head.

 

What if BW is shaping this game directly into an RPG and slowly truncates the MMO portions to a point they simply vanish from the game all together. Why, you may ask - well maybe they got handed a heads up / FYI / change of plans and the SW IP has another MMO on the road map.

 

This is rubbish at its finest but it popped in my head and I had to spit it out somewhere...haha

 

Oh and regarding "is this what people really wanted" No it isn't what I joined SWTOR for pre launch all those years ago. Sure I recall some KOTOR chat but ( and maybe I was SWG blind ) I recall talking about many MMO aspects and being so excited to have another SW MMO to run around in. That being said I loved the stories and the game right now feels pretty good to me.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Zakua

[Cuiwe]

I'm an old-fashioned mmo player, I've been playing mmos for a long time. I'm also a Star Wars fan, Old Republic was a great mix of the two. That's why I'm here. But personally, I think this new direction of SWTOR is just a big mess. They keep saying "Oh ya, all players really want nowadays is more story, more epicness". Really!!??

 

Do you really want all of Bioware's resources tied up for months & months to partake in a stream-lined, cut scene infested story arc that can be finished in an afternoon? You don't want any new pvp content? No new operations? Yes I realize these things "may be coming in the near future" but in the meantime this new storyline content just has no re-playability at all. How many times are you willing to follow Lana the "Jedi-wannabe sith" through a swamp? I've been told that this is what players really want and I find it hard to believe.

 

I think you are all confused, you want to sit around for 6 months at a time waiting for an afternoon's entertainment. Then you don't want an mmo, you want a MOVIE!! And great news, there's a Star Wars movie coming out in 2 months!! I'll see you all there but in the meantime I'd like my mmo back because this is not a mmo PC game, this is an advanced version of a read-along book. I used to read those when I was like 7 yrs old. "If you want to jump over the puddle turn to page 63. If you want to go around the puddle instead, then turn to page 89." Either way you're on the other side of the puddle!! Congratulations you finished Chapter 1 - The Puddle, now please wait patiently for 6 more months as we move on to Chapter 2 - The Hill.

 

Come on people!!

 

YES-I WANT THIS TO CONTINUE SO MUCH!

 

 

 

As I said elsewhere, **** the mmo parts!

Edited October 29, 2015 by Cuiwe

[Jumajin]

HYPERBOLE incoming!!!

 

It just smashed right into my head.

 

What if BW is shaping this game directly into an RPG and slowly truncates the MMO portions to a point they simply vanish from the game all together. Why, you may ask - well maybe they got handed a heads up / FYI / change of plans and the SW IP has another MMO on the road map.

 

This is rubbish at its finest but it popped in my head and I had to spit it out somewhere...haha

 

Oh and regarding "is this what people really wanted" No it isn't what I joined SWTOR for pre launch all those years ago. Sure I recall some KOTOR chat but ( and maybe I was SWG blind ) I recall talking about many MMO aspects and being so excited to have another SW MMO to run around in. That being said I loved the stories and the game right now feels pretty good to me.

 

Well, unless that MMO is being done from inside EA, even that hyperbole is extreme fantasy. EA has the exclusive Star Wars video game license with Disney as of 2013.

[Mogyoon]

Agree with OP. If the mmo aspect dissapear from this game I will quit. I won't pay a subscription for a single player game lol. I'm here for raids, pvp and other mmo aspects and yes I skip all the cutscenes. Edited October 29, 2015 by Mogyoon

[bealer]

Quoted for truth...

 

 

See...while you were playing (insert super grindy MMO's here) I was playing games like the legend of Zelda, the soul reaver series, Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, & of course kotor 1&2. I don't play THIS game as an mmo. As far as I'm concerned, none of y'all even exist in game. This is apparently as close as we'll get to kotor 3. Even the devs promoted it as being "like kotor3-10".

 

Since launch, they've added content aimed primarily at the MMO & RP crowd. They've added PvP maps, OP after OP, and QoL features that RP enjoy. Those of us who enjoy solo game play have waited patiently for more solo friendly content. We're finally starting to get it, and folks loose they damn minds.

 

 

They'll be adding new OPs & PvP maps for y'all to run over and over and over again to get that "power lvl 9000" main hand. And when you get bored with THAT after a month & start complaining about "needz moar OPs!"...cats like ME will STILL be playing through the 1-65 single player experience and enjoying tha hell out of it.

 

 

*drops mic and creates new character to start over with.

 

Exactly how I have always felt.

[Cuiwe]

Quoted for truth...

 

 

See...while you were playing (insert super grindy MMO's here) I was playing games like the legend of Zelda, the soul reaver series, Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, & of course kotor 1&2. I don't play THIS game as an mmo. As far as I'm concerned, none of y'all even exist in game. This is apparently as close as we'll get to kotor 3. Even the devs promoted it as being "like kotor3-10".

 

Since launch, they've added content aimed primarily at the MMO & RP crowd. They've added PvP maps, OP after OP, and QoL features that RP enjoy. Those of us who enjoy solo game play have waited patiently for more solo friendly content. We're finally starting to get it, and folks loose they damn minds.

 

 

They'll be adding new OPs & PvP maps for y'all to run over and over and over again to get that "power lvl 9000" main hand. And when you get bored with THAT after a month & start complaining about "needz moar OPs!"...cats like ME will STILL be playing through the 1-65 single player experience and enjoying tha hell out of it.

 

 

*drops mic and creates new character to start over with.

 

#IMMORTAL FOR PRESIDENT!

 

Agree SO MUCH! ENOUGH with WOOF W00f crap tyvm!

[IAAIAO]

I enjoy solo content and my main concern is how easy things got, gearing wise, leveling wise etc...it's not challenging anymore and it's concerning. And yes I hate this new generation of players.

[ivanhedgehog]

Check the server population in one month and you will have the answer. When 80% of the servers are back on light all the time, this expansion was a failure since it did not bring back a healthy game population.

 

For sure you will have some players which are happy to get 1 hour of new content per month for 13€. But i doubt that player base is big enough to bring this game to a higher level.

 

the CFO of ea was pretty clear that this expac had better perform. as it is customers can pay for 1 month, unsub, wait 6 moths and click on a referral link to get a free week sub time. the business model cannot handle $15 per customer in a 6 month time frame.

[Teladis]

Agree with OP. If the mmo aspect dissapear from this game I will quit. I won't pay a subscription for a single player game lol. I'm here for raids, pvp and other mmo aspects and yes I skip all the cutscenes.

 

Go play other mmos that do it better than this mmo. This one is all about the story, and they at last doing what they promise from day one. Building on the story.

[Bluejayoo]

Emphatically yes.

 

I am about as old school of an MMO player as you can be. I still have my log in info for UO and I actively play two or three MMO's at once.

 

If I want a classic MMO experience I will go play any one of the 50 or 60 classic style MMO's out right now. SWTOR is the ONLY place right now where you can experience a good story based MMO. The only thing that comes close is maybe Secret World. Defiance tried and failed badly.

 

Not every MMO needs to be a reskin of Everquest. We fortunately have MMO shooters, RPG's, sims, story heavy MMO's, sci-fi, fantasy, martial arts, priate stories... etc. Might I suggest if you open your mind to different game play experiences you would even be able to appreciate SWTOR for what it is.

[Mogyoon]

Go play other mmos that do it better than this mmo. This one is all about the story, and they at last doing what they promise from day one. Building on the story.

 

I don't mind the story if people like it and enjoy it it's ok but SWToR was advertised as MMO if you like it or not. I've tried other MMOs. Played WoW got bored of it (i like blasters more than sword and shield style) and I don't like the cartoon look of Wildstar. I'm more of a SF fan and this is what I've been looking for.

 

Raids here are challenging and interesting and I love pvp. I know the game engine has it flaws that's why I don't play 16M OPS but 8M and warzones are working just fine. Hope to see more OPS and WZs any soon. The refreshed content is ok but I'm playing this game from early access and I was progressing all the "new" OPs long time ago

Edited October 29, 2015 by Mogyoon

[Teladis]

I don't mind the story if people like it and enjoy it it's ok but SWToR was advertised as MMO if you like it or not. I've tried other MMOs. Played WoW got bored of it (i like blasters more than sword and shield style) and I don't like the cartoon look of Wildstar. I'm more of a SF fan and this is what I've been looking for.

 

Raids here are challenging and interesting and I love pvp. I know the game engine has it flaws that's why I don't play 16M OPS but 8M and warzones are working just fine. Hope to see more OPS and WZs any soon.

 

Raids do not equal an MMO

Group content does not equal an MMO.

PVP does not equal an MMO

 

You have the option to group for content.

You are able to sell to other people.

You see tons of people running around.

That is the core things of a mmo. It is a virtual world that is it. The rest of the stuff is optional.

[Nihilkult]

And yes I hate this new generation of players.

So, it means elitist ***** like you will leave? That's great news!

 

Oh but wait, new generation? You mean you started to play video games before Megaman 3 was even out? Because I did. . Gives absolutely no bragging rights. Gives me the right to chuckle at your stupid statement though.

 

@Mogyoon : Cross my fingers for you you'll get more ops and warzones.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Nihilkult

[Teladis]

So, it means elitist ***** like you will leave? That's great news!

 

Oh but wait, new generation? You mean you started to play video games before Megaman 3 was even out? Because I did. . Gives absolutely no bragging rights. Gives me the right to chuckle at your stupid statement though.

 

Sad thing is. I love how people think that players who enjoyed a more laid back story base mmo are entitle.

 

I played many MUDS growing up. Most of the players I bet would not last a second playing them. Muds are the grandpa of an MMO. It was all about story, and trying to pull you into that world. I am loving the fact many MMOs are going back to the roots of what made us want to play in the first place.

[TUXs]

Sad thing is. I love how people think that players who enjoyed a more laid back story base mmo are entitle.

 

I played many MUDS growing up. Most of the players I bet would not last a second playing them. Muds are the grandpa of an MMO. It was all about story, and trying to pull you into that world. I am loving the fact many MMOs are going back to the roots of what made us want to play in the first place.

 

Know what else is all about story? Books. You should check this site out.

Edited October 29, 2015 by TUXs

[Teladis]

Know what else is all about story? Books. You should check this site out.

 

When are you stopping your sub? If you are not. Thank you for supporting EA and the future of the game that I want from them.

[TUXs]

When are you stopping your sub? If you are not. Thank you for supporting EA and the future of the game that I want from them.

When I stop enjoying myself. How about you?

[Kirss]

Sorry , but I agree with mogyoon and havokhead. We need more content and we need more ops, fp and WZ. It's a big fundamental part of MMO. I think story is only a good addition to the rest of the game.

[Nottie]

Yes, this is what I wanted.

 

The days of the hardcore are over, and they ended long ago. I don't relate hardcore to raiding, and the pvp that are in this or any current game. (Old man voice) I'm my day hardcore gaming was protecting yourself from pick pockets and PKs. The days that you could lose everything, including your house, even if you were careful. Those days are gone and good riddance to them. I was killed and lost everything and in turn killed others and looted and dismembered their corpses. It was a lawless age and change was inevitable. The hardcore fought hard against change, but some adapted and continued on.

 

After the hardcore age, we had the grind age. Where you had to commit to a game with every spare moment, neglecting all else. Where you had to "work" (LOL) for everything, and most of the player base seldom seen the light at the end of the tunnel. Those that were able to finish the grind felt like they accomplished something and were set above the lowly masses. Those champions were idolized by the "unwashed". It's those now that are fighting against the coming shift, but like the hardcore warriors of old they too will adapt or die off.

 

We are now transitioning into the casual age. It's an age of those that want to play and have access to everything. Where things aren't overly grindy, and you can see it all if that is your wish. Where you're able to log into a game for 30 minutes for fun and accomplish something. Where you don't have to schedule your life around a game, 3 to 5 days a week for hours at a time. This change is happening in every game that I keep an eye on, and nothing is going to stop it, simply because this is where to money is. A vast majority of every games player base is the casual gamer, and now is their age (FINALLY).

 

I've killed and died, losing everything and causing frustration to others. I crawled through the muck of grindy game play and seen the light most couldn't. It's only now in this "new" age that I feel at home. So, yes this is exactly what I wanted. This is SWTOR, as it should have been and I hope continues to be.

[Pagy]

I'm an old-fashioned mmo player, I've been playing mmos for a long time. I'm also a Star Wars fan, Old Republic was a great mix of the two. That's why I'm here. But personally, I think this new direction of SWTOR is just a big mess. They keep saying "Oh ya, all players really want nowadays is more story, more epicness". Really!!??

 

Do you really want all of Bioware's resources tied up for months & months to partake in a stream-lined, cut scene infested story arc that can be finished in an afternoon? You don't want any new pvp content? No new operations? Yes I realize these things "may be coming in the near future" but in the meantime this new storyline content just has no re-playability at all. How many times are you willing to follow Lana the "Jedi-wannabe sith" through a swamp? I've been told that this is what players really want and I find it hard to believe.

 

I think you are all confused, you want to sit around for 6 months at a time waiting for an afternoon's entertainment. Then you don't want an mmo, you want a MOVIE!! And great news, there's a Star Wars movie coming out in 2 months!! I'll see you all there but in the meantime I'd like my mmo back because this is not a mmo PC game, this is an advanced version of a read-along book. I used to read those when I was like 7 yrs old. "If you want to jump over the puddle turn to page 63. If you want to go around the puddle instead, then turn to page 89." Either way you're on the other side of the puddle!! Congratulations you finished Chapter 1 - The Puddle, now please wait patiently for 6 more months as we move on to Chapter 2 - The Hill.

 

Come on people!!

the bitter irony is: no, swtor players dont seem to want an mmo. all the mmo-loving gamers that tried swtor left, because there is no endgame content.

 

what's left are the sinpleplayer casuals...and they seem okay to pay a sub for...well no reason.

[IAAIAO]

I am not bragging about being an old timer, I am just glad I had a better parenting and a better education, and that I am happier opening a book than opening instagram.

[DarthDymond]

The whole "if you like story you should go read a book" line doesn't track for me, because it seems like the underlying logic would apply just as well to any medium that is used to tell stories - film, radio, stage, television, video games.

 

 

• "This is a video game, if you want story go read a book. Video games should be about the gameplay."
  
• "This is a movie, if you want story go read a book. Movies should be about the cinematography and visuals."

 

There are plenty of video games that do focus only on gameplay, and there are plenty of video games that do emphasize gameplay with story as a secondary or tertiary focus. And, yes, there are video games that emphasize story as their primary focus set gameplay as a secondary concern.

That's no different than the way there are art-house films that are all about the visuals and cinematic artistry, there are films that emphasize cinematography or spectacle with story as a secondary focus, and there are films that emphasize story first and foremost.

 

That's fine in both mediums (as well as their analogues in radio, tv, stage, etc.), that's variety. All the various media allow different approaches and different opportunities when they tell stories - the same way TV and film allow for visual storytelling, video games allow for interactive storytelling.

 

Tetris, League of Legends, heck the upcoming Star Wars: Battlefront game, and plenty of other examples focus on gameplay and either downplay or outright lack story. That's great.

Wolf Among Us, Broken Age, Her Story, and plenty of other examples focus on story and downplay gameplay. That's great, too.

That's variety.

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic may be emphasizing story, and it may be downplaying gameplay as a result. That might mean it's not someone's particular cup of tea - but saying "story is for books" makes no more sense as a criticism of a video game than it makes as a criticism of a tv show.

Edited October 29, 2015 by DarthDymond

[HanoverFist]

People didn't even want TOR to be an mmo to begin with, we wanted KOTOR 3 and in a way we're getting it.

 

 

This guy gets it.

[Jadescythe]

I really do think BW is listening to feedback and attempting to give players what they want. But we saw the results of this behavior from BW with GSF and Conquest. So many players wanted space battles and guild competitions. No one wanted point and click space combat or crafting wars.

 

Players wanted more and even better stories, but they also wanted to play the game. KotFE doesn't even have KOTOR amounts of gameply. There are no puzzles to solve when you get to a planet. There is no exploration required. You just keep walking forward, one shot some trash mobs, emote at a boss, watch 10 min of cutscenes, and repeat.