Bioware, remove the PvP from the quest to get M1-4X.

[Pagy]

It's starting to evolve into a different situation with the new information that Lokin is gated by obtaining Qyzen. Now we aren't talking about a single companion being locked behind PvP, but potentially every companion offered being locked behind another companion. Regardless of the requirements, I don't like the idea of having to complete one quest in order to get future companions with no way of bypassing it.

how else is bw going to occupy your time in game without silly pokemon hurdles?

 

it's not like there's any endgame content to enjoy, so gotta catch'em all!

[Pagy]

I'm not saying PVP is evil. I'm just saying that it's not what I (and other people) play this game for.

cool, we all dont enjoy the same things.

 

so dont pvp then.

[Jadescythe]

how else is bw going to occupy your time in game without silly pokemon hurdles?

 

it's not like there's any endgame content to enjoy, so gotta catch'em all!

 

Last time I checked, Pokemon doesn't make you catch Mewtwo in order to proceed on to catching Weedle. You can have all companions available to be obtained without requiring one to be obtained before another.

[Pagy]

Last time I checked, Pokemon doesn't make you catch Mewtwo in order to proceed on to catching Weedle. You can have all companions available to be obtained without requiring one to be obtained before another.

but think about how much extra time it would take!

 

renew that sub!

[Master-Nala]

I'm not saying PVP is evil. I'm just saying that it's not what I (and other people) play this game for.

 

That's fine. But why complain about PvP being given a valuable reward?

[Kheldryn]

Honestly I agree with the OP, we shouldn't "Have" to PvP to unlock something. But on the other hand, is it really that bad? Would take you 20 Matches Maximum (2 pts for a victory), Unranked.. so if people whine about you "Not being geared for PvP" then ignore them. I admit while PvP'ing I would likely benefit from having a PvP set, but I'm not going out of my way to gear up for just 1 companion. I'm not the biggest fan of PvP either, but it's not that bad, just grin and bear it.

 

A lot of the time, with the right team, it can be quite fun.

[LordArtemis]

I don't know how I feel about this.

 

On the one hand it does seem a bit silly to gate a PVE companion (or at least the likely folks that would be interested) behind PVP activity.

 

At the same time, I like the idea of finding ways to promote niche parts of the game that likely have very small dedicated participatory populations, like PVP.

 

In fact, it would be great, if they have not done so already, to do this for high end raiding and GSF as well.

 

I personally think, however, it would have been wiser to create a NEW character to gate behind PVP...something similar to HK. Or perhaps this guy. Or this one.

 

Since we have a system in place where they have generic abilities, I think it is high time to provide cosmetic companions....both creatures and droids. Would even be great if we could craft a few.

 

But that is a subject for another thread.

 

At any rate, It is a good idea, but perhaps not for a known companion with a story.

[Master-Nala]

At any rate, It is a good idea, but perhaps not for a known companion with a story.

 

They don't have a story. Except for Troopers and Warriors. And at this point even those classes can't access the companion story.

 

People are hung up on the fact that at one point you got these characters during a class story. For the characters that did so, they have no PvP gate to getting them back. For every other character, these companions are new, have no story behind them and are wholly cosmetic.

 

Rewards can't be subject to the standard that if a large number of PvE players want it, it can't be gated behind PvP. Because if that's true, then nothing can be.

[Jadescythe]

I don't know how I feel about this.

 

On the one hand it does seem a bit silly to gate a PVE companion (or at least the likely folks that would be interested) behind PVP activity.

 

At the same time, I like the idea of finding ways to promote niche parts of the game that likely have very small dedicated participatory populations, like PVP.

 

In fact, it would be great, if they have not done so already, to do this for high end raiding and GSF as well.

 

I personally think, however, it would have been wiser to create a NEW character to gate behind PVP...something similar to HK. Or perhaps this guy. Or this one.

 

Since we have a system in place where they have generic abilities, I think it is high time to provide cosmetic companions....both creatures and droids. Would even be great if we could craft a few.

 

But that is a subject for another thread.

 

At any rate, It is a good idea, but perhaps not for a known companion with a story.

 

To touch on a few of your points.

 

Companions are not inherently PvE or PvP features. They are used in both and they are used in neither depending on the particular content.

 

PvP is not a niche group and is not in need of population. I'm not sure where you get your information, but on any of the major servers with a decent population, unranked warzones pop 24/7.

 

The only new companions to be obtained are specific to the SF quests, not the recruitment quests. I see no reason this quest should be different just because it involves PvP. In fact, it would literally be BW telling PvPers they aren't important enough to the game to warrant their quest rewarding a well known companion.

 

As to the story behind existing companions, they are specific to the classes that previously had them. Those classes can recruit the companions without participating in PvP and so the story is not broken.

[Blackbird]

You know this is a MMO, right? MMOs have had pvp as a core part of their systems since the 90s. Deal with it or go play a RPG. The faster you story people are out of the game, the sooner this game can get interesting.

 

Wait, what? Are you really suggesting that those interested in the story aspect of the game should leave SWTOR and "go play an RPG"?!? You are aware that SWTOR is an MMORPG, right? So your suggestion is pointlessly redundant as we are all already playing an RPG, and those "story people" are in fact in the exact place you are suggesting they should go to for story.

 

Also, Bioware as a developer is much better known for its storytelling than it is for engaging and innovative PvP gameplay, so to expect a Bioware game to be PvP-centric and not story driven is a bit ridiculous. If you're really looking for solid PvP gameplay with little to no concessions for story, may I suggest that one of the many available quality multiplayer FPS titles might be more to your liking?

[MozOTheUndercity]

Don't remove the PvP objective - it's not hurting anyone, and goodness knows PvP in this game needs some love - just add an alternative that's in keeping with the theme of the mission, like the Qyzen mission.

 

I did enough PvP to get my main to valor 50, which means I at least get M1-4X on one character, but it was also enough to know I really don't enjoy swtor PvP and so I won't be getting M1 or Pierce on any alts which don't just get them for free (trooper/SW), which sucks.

[Ravenfeathers]

cool, we all dont enjoy the same things.

 

so dont pvp then.

 

I'd love to get all the companions just to get it out of the way. Sadly the developers are currently setting it up where you HAVE to pvp to do that. So that being said.....

[Ravenfeathers]

To touch on a few of your points.

 

Companions are not inherently PvE or PvP features. They are used in both and they are used in neither depending on the particular content.

 

PvP is not a niche group and is not in need of population. I'm not sure where you get your information, but on any of the major servers with a decent population, unranked warzones pop 24/7.

 

The only new companions to be obtained are specific to the SF quests, not the recruitment quests. I see no reason this quest should be different just because it involves PvP. In fact, it would literally be BW telling PvPers they aren't important enough to the game to warrant their quest rewarding a well known companion.

 

As to the story behind existing companions, they are specific to the classes that previously had them. Those classes can recruit the companions without participating in PvP and so the story is not broken.

 

We all understand that. The problem is that other characters that people have (Jedi, Smuglgers, Sith, Agents) DO have to do the quests to acquire the Alliance companions through pvp battles. Or did you not notice that because companions most certainly aren't Legacy Wide binds.

[Ravenfeathers]

Don't remove the PvP objective - it's not hurting anyone, and goodness knows PvP in this game needs some love - just add an alternative that's in keeping with the theme of the mission, like the Qyzen mission.

 

I did enough PvP to get my main to valor 50, which means I at least get M1-4X on one character, but it was also enough to know I really don't enjoy swtor PvP and so I won't be getting M1 or Pierce on any alts which don't just get them for free (trooper/SW), which sucks.

 

I never said remove it, I just would like to see it changed, Maybe do 10 battles instead of the 20 that it requires.

[LordArtemis]

Rewards can't be subject to the standard that if a large number of PvE players want it, it can't be gated behind PvP. Because if that's true, then nothing can be.

 

Well, though I am an advocate of encouraging participation in areas of the game that are underutilized (likely that PVP is one of them), I would have to say that I am not sure I agree with you there.

 

PVE is likely the bread and butter here. PVE folks, casuals, whatever you wish to call them rarely if ever likely participate in PVP. It is just not a likely common practice.

 

So in this particular case placing rewards that would likely appeal only to PVE players behind a PVP wall could be seen as silly, if not obnoxious.

 

But, that said, I personally would like to see MORE incentives to PVP, raid and participate in GSF. All three need some help due to generally poor design IMO.

[Jadescythe]

We all understand that. The problem is that other characters that people have (Jedi, Smuglgers, Sith, Agents) DO have to do the quests to acquire the Alliance companions through pvp battles. Or did you not notice that because companions most certainly aren't Legacy Wide binds.

 

And? Did they have the companions a month ago? If you want them, then do the quest. If you don't want to do it multiple times, then lobby for a legacy unlock after completing the quest once. Personally, I'd be happy to not have to kill 20 mobs on Hoth for 20 characters myself.

[Raphael_diSanto]

And? Did they have the companions a month ago? If you want them, then do the quest. If you don't want to do it multiple times, then lobby for a legacy unlock after completing the quest once. Personally, I'd be happy to not have to kill 20 mobs on Hoth for 20 characters myself.

 

I hear ya. Qyzen's requirement is pretty dumb, too. I'm not sure why they give some companions (Talos, Yuun, etc) a simple quest and others dumb timesinks.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

[LordArtemis]

PvP is not a niche group and is not in need of population. I'm not sure where you get your information, but on any of the major servers with a decent population, unranked warzones pop 24/7.

 

I find it extremely unlikely that the group of dedicated PVP is anything more than a tiny minority. It would have to be FAR outside the norm for the market, and frankly the PVP here is far too poor to even rate compared to other games on the market at present.

 

Now, could I be wrong? Absolutely, I could dead wrong. I would be HAPPY to be wrong. But I find it unlikely.

Edited November 11, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Jadescythe]

I find it extremely unlikely that the group of dedicated PVP is anything more than a tiny minority. It would have to be FAR outside the norm for the market, and frankly the PVP here is far too poor to even rate compared to other games on the market at present.

 

Now, could I be wrong? Absolutely, I could dead wrong. I would be HAPPY to be wrong. But I find it unlikely.

 

I have no idea where you got this idea that you have to be PvP focused to care about PvP or participate in PvP. Most players in this game don't do any single activity exclusively. Stop looking at segments of the population as black and white. Regs are filled with everything from hardcore players to total noobs. People find PvP fun, so they participate. That doesn't mean it wasn't just a break between Ops nights or that they weren't killing some time before going to RP in a cantina.

 

I agree that less than 1000 people are playing this game solely to PvP, but you need to realize that hundreds of thousands are PvPing in this game even if it isn't their focus.

[LordArtemis]

I have no idea where you got this idea that you have to be PvP focused to care about PvP or participate in PvP.

 

I don't have that idea. I was speaking specifically to dedicated PVP players.

 

Most players in this game don't do any single activity exclusively. Stop looking at segments of the population as black and white. Regs are filled with everything from hardcore players to total noobs. People find PvP fun, so they participate. That doesn't mean it wasn't just a break between Ops nights or that they weren't killing some time before going to RP in a cantina.

 

Well, I tend to think that most either NEVER participate in PVP or have participated very little in PVP. I would say that is a likely safe bet.

 

I am not sure why the participation level is so important to you, or my perception of it. I would think you would be more concerned with how poor I think the PVP is in this game.

 

I agree that less than 1000 people are playing this game solely to PvP, but you need to realize that hundreds of thousands are PvPing in this game even if it isn't their focus.

 

Ok, though I think its likely far short of that many, I will concede it is likely that many more folks dabble in PVP than are dedicated to it.

 

But I still strongly feel it is likely that even if you added the folks that OCCASIONALLY PVP with those that do so almost exclusively, it would still be a far smaller group of players than those that are dedicated to raiding, and both groups would be smaller than players that rarely do either....in other words, the most likely largest group of players rarely if ever raid or PVP....and they probably outnumber those that do by a healthy 3 or 4 to 1 margin.

 

That is the current general state of the market. This is ALL speculative here since, to my knowledge, Bioware has never released participation numbers. So it is entirely possible that all of it is incorrect.

But I personally find that unlikely.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I don't think any incentive to make people pvp should be removed.

[Jadescythe]

I don't have that idea. I was speaking specifically to dedicated PVP players.

 

 

 

Well, I tend to think that most either NEVER participate in PVP or have participated very little in PVP. I would say that is a likely safe bet.

 

I am not sure why the participation level is so important to you, or my perception of it. I would think you would be more concerned with how poor I think the PVP is in this game.

 

 

 

Ok, though I think its likely far short of that many, I will concede it is likely that many more folks dabble in PVP than are dedicated to it.

 

But I still strongly feel it is likely that even if you added the folks that OCCASIONALLY PVP with those that do so almost exclusively, it would still be a far smaller group of players than those that are dedicated to raiding, and both groups would be smaller than players that rarely do either....in other words, the most likely largest group of players rarely if ever raid or PVP....and they probably outnumber those that do by a healthy 3 or 4 to 1 margin.

 

That is the current general state of the market. This is ALL speculative here since, to my knowledge, Bioware has never released participation numbers. So it is entirely possible that all of it is incorrect.

But I personally find that unlikely.

 

The reason I don't comment on your perception of the PvP quality is because it's subjective. If you don't like it, I have no issues with that. The PvP in this game is actually quite fun for me, but certainly not competitively so.

 

Harbinger has as many, if not more, players in the various warzones and arenas as operations at any given time. Certainly more at the off-peak times when no one is raiding. BW has not released participation numbers since the guild summit some years ago, but it was well over 50% of the population that had participated. And you can always follow the ranked leaderboards to gauge the amount of players participating there, although that is a small subset of the population PvPing.

 

Remember that PvP is available at level 10 and can certainly be viable as a way to gain extra XP while players level. PvP is far more popular to the casual audience than you're giving it credit for.

[Pagy]

i can sign in, any level, play a pvp match or two and log off

 

if that isn't casual, i dont know what is.

[LordArtemis]

The reason I don't comment on your perception of the PvP quality is because it's subjective. If you don't like it, I have no issues with that. The PvP in this game is actually quite fun for me, but certainly not competitively so.

 

Fair enough, and I agree that any view on PVP is highly subjective, mine included.

 

Harbinger has as many, if not more, players in the various warzones and arenas as operations at any given time. Certainly more at the off-peak times when no one is raiding. BW has not released participation numbers since the guild summit some years ago, but it was well over 50% of the population that had participated. And you can always follow the ranked leaderboards to gauge the amount of players participating there, although that is a small subset of the population PvPing.

 

If your speaking to the summit where they were chatting about total participation, if I recall correctly they indicated that that amount of players had engaged in PVP at least once....at launch....and that is a pretty low bar to set.

 

Even I have engaged in PVP at least once....actually 5 times I think.

 

Remember that PvP is available at level 10 and can certainly be viable as a way to gain extra XP while players level. PvP is far more popular to the casual audience than you're giving it credit for.

 

I don't think so, but then remember, that doesn't mean I'm right....this is all assumption on my part based on market statistics, and to be fair this game has bucked the trend in a few ways....PVP could be one of them.

Edited November 11, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Artaniz]

In to say i think the pvp requirement is good. YOU DO NOT DESERVE to get every companion the way "you" want o get them. Its nice to have them tied to various things WBs , crafting , pvp , it allows people to experience different parts of the game , if you don't want to play all parts of the game that's fine , but don't expect to be able to get everything either.

 

Just because something is a "PVE" task does not mean it should only have pve as basis for quests. This entire thread is silly and absurd , either do the 20 warzones or dont , but this crying because boo hoo i have to pvp and i dont want to well you dont have to you just cant have this companion if you dont.