Bioware, remove the PvP from the quest to get M1-4X.

[horrorfaneightys]

Do you realize how incredibly hypocritical that is? Not to mention its a circular argument. The only reason it is so focused on PvE is because so many people have complained until the devs made it so PvP is as invisible to you as possible.

 

This is a game where they launched with multiple PvP servers, and a robust PvP game in place. YOU may not care about PvP, but that doesn't mean that people who do aren't entitled to rewards for that playstyle. If you want 4X or Pierce so bad, then play the content the devs have set as the requirement.

 

I think you misunderstood me. My fault as it was like 2 am or something when I posted that, so it could have been articulated much better.

 

I have no issues with PVP or PVPers, and them getting rewards. I just questioned the poster I was responding to's comment about PVPers being "forced" into doing PVE content. It came across as if they were saying that some PVPers hate huge swathes of the game. I wondered that if that is true, then wouldn't they enjoy a game that's completely geared towards PVP more.

 

I can't really comment on how much PVP has been removed from the game, as I came in when it went F2P. But I still think at the core of the game is the class story, which to me is PVE content. Which makes the game centred around PVE in my opinion.

 

And my issue with M1- 4X, as mentioned on more than one occasion, is that I hope it doesn't stop me from getting more alerts and missions from Theron Shan in the future because I've chosen to not do the PVP one. I don't particularly want to PVP, and I certainly don't enjoy the thought of affecting PVPers and their enjoyment of the game by gimping them in warzones. I certainly wouldn't appreciate it if I was a PVPer.

 

It's a wonder what sleep and coffee can do.

[Master-Nala]

Since I'm going through the required Warzones to unlock Forex, here's what I've noted that annoy me as a mainly PvE player:

-I can't do WZ whenever I want. I need other players to queue and seeing as I sometimes play at outlandish hours, it is an issue. Waiting one hour to get a WZ to pop only to get facerolled by a guild in the opposing team isn't fun. So, point 1: Getting my companion isn't dependant on me anymore, both in skill and in availability. The only similar issue right now is Doctor Lokin with the Rakghoul Event.

 

Welcome to MMORPGs. There are PvE rewards dependent on queuing for content.

 

-20 Defeats/10 victories is just to much. I get why the quest is here: It's mostly to incite new players with the Insta-60 who were shoved into the story right away to try PvP. But in that case, 4 matches (2 Victories/ 4 defeats) would be a much more acceptable ammount. It needs to be used a tutorial to Warzones, not a tedious grind. Right now, only another companion is a tedious grind to get and it's Qyzen (Lokin is annoying but you can just get a character with bioanalysis to run around Yavin 4 to gather the supplies.). Point 2: Make is shorter!

 

If anything they should make it longer. Like 50 games. Something more equivalent to 40 Valor.

 

-The idea of completing the Weekly Warzone "Quest" to gain influence with Forex is good. It makes PvP relevant to at least one companion. Why not change the format of the quest: Make it that Forex will only join if his influence is of 10k at least. Then make it possible to offer him gifts he likes. That way, PvPers and PvE players who want to do the Warzones and get him for "free" just earn influence that way. Others have to farm gifts or spend their common Data crystals to acquire some in Odessen. Point 3: If Influence is earned via Warzones for Forex, make it actually relevant to recruit him!

 

No, how about a reward for doing PvP continue to require PvP. No player needs 4X for anything. The companions that are critical to the story are listed as Main Characters in the alliance. 4X is not. It's a cosmetic reward. He hardly even says anything in battle and has lost even some of his summoning statements.

 

-Now, last point, a completely outlandish one that will never happen but: Create a "tutorial" that only gives wins for this quest. No Valor, no commendations, just the companion. That allows PvE players to try PvP with other players like them instead of dropping into regular Warzones where sometimes the opposition is just far too good. Point 4: Try and separate regular Warzones and "Alliance" warzones if possible.

 

Here's what you refuse to accept. In PvP, the players are the content. That team facerolling you, get to have fun doing so. You being in the queue, for whatever reason, makes the queue go faster.

 

I don't care if you guys aren't very good. Then we'll just beat you and get a win. If you're on our team, we'll get a loss and I'll move on to the next game.

 

Just play the game. It's not hard, it's only frustrating if you have no control over your emotions.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Dbohrius]

Quick question: I have two characters who have some WZs under their belt, but have not made it to Valor 40. When the time comes to recruit Pierce/ 4X, do I have to play 20 more matches, or the previous PVP I made counts?

[Draqsko]

No, how about a reward for doing PvP continue to require PvP. No player needs 4X for anything. The companions that are critical to the story are listed as Main Characters in the alliance. 4X is not. It's a cosmetic reward. He hardly even says anything in battle and has lost even some of his summoning statements.

 

He's been silent on my mando, the only time I hear him now is when I send him out crafting or gathering.

 

"I'll begin immediately!"

[Leklor]

*snip*

 

Well...

What a pleasant person you are!

That'll teach me to actually try and find a solution/alternatives instead of complaining to no end.

Thankfully, I doubt I'll ever cross path with you in game so I won't be here to feed you easy kills for your ego in WZs.

I'd rather get killed by people who don't give a fu** about me rather than someone who seems intent on parading with his "Cosmetic reward" mentality all day long.

When you'll understand that someone can get attached to his character and his legacy beyond number-crunching and WZs medals, give me a sign.

[PoliteAssasin]

OMG so we have to do a tiny bit of PvP compared to the huge amount of PvE PvPers have to do.

 

And you don't HAVE to do it via PvP, just go to the terminal if you are a Trooper. So only those who are getting him via alliance need to PvP, and again, they don't have to have him, so it isn't required.

 

So much this. Quit whining.

Edited October 25, 2015 by PoliteAssasin

[Ratajack]

Well...

What a pleasant person you are!

That'll teach me to actually try and find a solution/alternatives instead of complaining to no end.

Thankfully, I doubt I'll ever cross path with you in game so I won't be here to feed you easy kills for your ego in WZs.

I'd rather get killed by people who don't give a fu** about me rather than someone who seems intent on parading with his "Cosmetic reward" mentality all day long.

When you'll understand that someone can get attached to his character and his legacy beyond number-crunching and WZs medals, give me a sign.

 

What does "being attached to your character" have to do with PVP?

 

How does "being attached to your character" equate into "give me everything in the game for doing ONLY THAT WHICH I WANT TO DO?"

[Master-Nala]

Well...

What a pleasant person you are!

That'll teach me to actually try and find a solution/alternatives instead of complaining to no end.

Thankfully, I doubt I'll ever cross path with you in game so I won't be here to feed you easy kills for your ego in WZs.

I'd rather get killed by people who don't give a fu** about me rather than someone who seems intent on parading with his "Cosmetic reward" mentality all day long.

When you'll understand that someone can get attached to his character and his legacy beyond number-crunching and WZs medals, give me a sign.

 

Resort to ad hominem attacks all you want. You aren't looking for a solution, because there's no problem to solve. The developers have created a quest you don't like. Instead of just doing the quest, you are complaining to see it changed to something you do like. Personally, I find that argument unreasonable. So I'm arguing against it.

 

I haven't been unpleasant at all. I've argued against your position. That you seem unable to understand the difference speaks volumes about why this quest bothers you so much.

[Leklor]

What does "being attached to your character" have to do with PVP?

 

How does "being attached to your character" equate into "give me everything in the game for doing ONLY THAT WHICH I WANT TO DO?"

 

Wait, I'm trying to find the gold medal for "I didn't understand what you said but I'm attacking you on what I decided you meant" category.

Where did I say that I wanted to do "Only what I wanted to do"?

Where did I say that my personal attachement to my character had anything to do with Pvp?

Oh righ, I didn't! because you don't seem capable to read something without making up a meaning in your mind.

You took a post completely out of context and tried to attack me based on a meaning you didn't even try to get. Congrats, really.

[Leklor]

Resort to ad hominem attacks all you want. You aren't looking for a solution, because there's no problem to solve. The developers have created a quest you don't like. Instead of just doing the quest, you are complaining to see it changed to something you do like. Personally, I find that argument unreasonable. So I'm arguing against it.

 

I haven't been unpleasant at all. I've argued against your position. That you seem unable to understand the difference speaks volumes about why this quest bothers you so much.

 

Double post but what do I care at this point...

The IS a problem.

The problem is that I can't tell Forex to stay on Coruscant and forget about him. I can't remove him from my Alliance window even by abandonning the quest. And I don't like unfinished stuff like that. It's annoying.

But I suppose you will "Argue against my position" by saying that adding an opt-out to the quest would be insulting to PvPers, right?

 

EDIT: Might I add that you keep repeating ad nauseam that Forex is a PvP reward... When he really isn't. I don't remember getting a quest to get him at a PvP terminal. I distincly remember it being an alert by Theron Shan with an Alliance conversation.

Forex will be a PvP reward when he's out of the Alliance and gotten via the PvP Terminal on Odessen or the Fleet. Until then, he is a part of the Alliance and the only companion with non-Alliance requirement.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Leklor

[Taban]

The funniest thing to me was watching all the hardcore pvp'ers complain about how many casuals were invading their pvp matches

 

"It's snow/grass, not east and west, which one is east? *** is wrong with you guys" etc

 

As a mainly pve'er it was somewhat annoying, 20 felt like a lot of matches, 10 would feel like a better number to me, but it definitely wasn't undoable or anything like that.

[Master-Nala]

Double post but what do I care at this point...

The IS a problem.

The problem is that I can't tell Forex to stay on Coruscant and forget about him. I can't remove him from my Alliance window even by abandonning the quest. And I don't like unfinished stuff like that. It's annoying.

But I suppose you will "Argue against my position" by saying that adding an opt-out to the quest would be insulting to PvPers, right?

 

EDIT: Might I add that you keep repeating ad nauseam that Forex is a PvP reward... When he really isn't. I don't remember getting a quest to get him at a PvP terminal. I distincly remember it being an alert by Theron Shan with an Alliance conversation.

Forex will be a PvP reward when he's out of the Alliance and gotten via the PvP Terminal on Odessen or the Fleet. Until then, he is a part of the Alliance and the only companion with non-Alliance requirement.

 

The quest requires PvP and gives PvP commendations as well as the companion. You keep resorting to these artificial distinctions that are nonsensical at best. We get it, you are unhappy that you must PvP if you want this companion. But Bioware didn't relent on the Gree event and I doubt they will here.

 

Do what you will. My 4x is already level 22 on my Sage.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Kaddrius]

A lot of lame excuses for players here. I love the PVP aspect of the game, but some of you actually indicate that it is a chore for PVP players to do PVE content?

 

The game is about 5% PVP. It is a PVE game, and forcing anyone to PVP to get any story reward is stupid. Most people don't like PVP precisely because of the arrogant and mostly dim-witted players who, though a small percentage of PVPers, seem to be highly represented here.

 

A terminal unlock is not a good substitute for story missions either, and it is also class-specific.

[DinoDo]

Since I'm going through the required Warzones to unlock Forex, here's what I've noted that annoy me as a mainly PvE player:

-I can't do WZ whenever I want. I need other players to queue and seeing as I sometimes play at outlandish hours, it is an issue. Waiting one hour to get a WZ to pop only to get facerolled by a guild in the opposing team isn't fun. So, point 1: Getting my companion isn't dependant on me anymore, both in skill and in availability. The only similar issue right now is Doctor Lokin with the Rakghoul Event.

Queue pop times are an issue that cuts across PvE and PvP. Try queuing as a DPS for a HM flashpoint. I've never encountered PvP queues that long though.

-20 Defeats/10 victories is just to much. I get why the quest is here: It's mostly to incite new players with the Insta-60 who were shoved into the story right away to try PvP. But in that case, 4 matches (2 Victories/ 4 defeats) would be a much more acceptable ammount. It needs to be used a tutorial to Warzones, not a tedious grind. Right now, only another companion is a tedious grind to get and it's Qyzen (Lokin is annoying but you can just get a character with bioanalysis to run around Yavin 4 to gather the supplies.). Point 2: Make is shorter!

4 is too short. If they are going to reduce the length, I'd go for 6 to make it equivalent to the two PvP dailies.

[Leklor]

Queue pop times are an issue that cuts across PvE and PvP. Try queuing as a DPS for a HM flashpoint. I've never encountered PvP queues that long though.4 is too short. If they are going to reduce the length, I'd go for 6 to make it equivalent to the two PvP dailies.

 

It may be due to my server, Mantle of the Force, but waiting sometimes half an hour to stumble upon a match where an enemy guild is facerolling everyone without effort isn't exactly my idea of "fun". Granted queue are an issue both in PvP and PvE, and if there were an Alliance companion requiring FPs or Ops, believe me, I'd be complaining just as much. The Alliance system is something purely solo. Outside of the H2+ Star Fortresses, it doesn't benefit either PvE or PvP and I simply think that in return neither should have a direct influence on it.

 

As for the number, I suppose 4 IS a bit low. 6 I could live with, maybe 8 at most. And make the character unlockable via legacy afterward (My isn't the Alliance partially legacy, BTW, it would have been the perfect occasion to make Legacy relevant once again.) 20 is just to much.

 

The quest requires PvP and gives PvP commendations as well as the companion. You keep resorting to these artificial distinctions that are nonsensical at best

 

And you know what's fantastic? To you I don't make sense but to me you don't either. And you haven't answered my question: How having an opt-out hurt the quest? In fact, I see three solutions:

1) Add a PvE alternative. Keep the 20 Warzones/Valor 40 as a possibility but offer me a mission that actually fits Forex profile: Hunting enemy VIPs (Yup, that's what he does in his story, he hunts major enemy targets, he doesn't run around clueless in a Warzone) through multiple planets, maybe put them in Open PvP zones if you must.

2) Give the option to tell Pierce/Forex that I don't want them in my Alliance. Remove them from my contact list and remove the Alert. There, done. Over and I'm satisfied. (I can do that with Xalek, why not here.)

3) Remove Pierce/Forex from the Alliance system completely and make them fully optional (No alert), with a quest acquired at the PvP Terminal on Odessen or the fleet. Once again, issue solved. If I don't want them, I don't have to see them in my Alliance list ever.

Now, my friend, explain to me, without resorting to taunts like "I got the companion and not you, n00b", how THESE choices, specifically 2 and 3, would hurt the game or devalue the efforts you made to acquire the companion? Please, the suspense is killing me.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Leklor

[Newyankalt]

It should just be 5-7 matches (wins count x2). I think it would be fine then and most people will live with it

[Ratajack]

 

 

 

And you know what's fantastic? To you I don't make sense but to me you don't either. And you haven't answered my question: How having an opt-out hurt the quest? In fact, I see three solutions:

1) Add a PvE alternative. Keep the 20 Warzones/Valor 40 as a possibility but offer me a mission that actually fits Forex profile: Hunting enemy VIPs (Yup, that's what he does in his story, he hunts major enemy targets, he doesn't run around clueless in a Warzone) through multiple planets, maybe put them in Open PvP zones if you must.

2) Give the option to tell Pierce/Forex that I don't want them in my Alliance. Remove them from my contact list and remove the Alert. There, done. Over and I'm satisfied. (I can do that with Xalek, why not here.)

3) Remove Pierce/Forex from the Alliance system completely and make them fully optional (No alert), with a quest acquired at the PvP Terminal on Odessen or the fleet. Once again, issue solved. If I don't want them, I don't have to see them in my Alliance list ever.

Now, my friend, explain to me, without resorting to taunts like "I got the companion and not you, n00b", how THESE choices, specifically 2 and 3, would hurt the game or devalue the efforts you made to acquire the companion? Please, the suspense is killing me.

 

Explain to me why either choice 1,2 or 3 is needed?

 

This is a multifaceted game. Some rewards may require that you do things outside of your comfort zone to acquire those rewards. Fortunately, most of those rewards are completely OPTIONAL. They are NOT required.

 

No one is forcing you to PVP. You can CHOOSE to PVP if you want those companions, but no one is "forcing" you to PVP.

 

Explain to me why choice 2 or 3 is needed, other than a few player's OCD?

 

I think that there should be an indication that a player CHOSE not to do something.

 

A true completionist would be doing those things that were necessary to obtain all the rewards, not asking BW to hide any evidence that they are NOT true completionists and that they didn't do those things they don't want to do.

[Leklor]

Explain to me why either choice 1,2 or 3 is needed?

 

This is a multifaceted game. Some rewards may require that you do things outside of your comfort zone to acquire those rewards. Fortunately, most of those rewards are completely OPTIONAL. They are NOT required.

 

No one is forcing you to PVP. You can CHOOSE to PVP if you want those companions, but no one is "forcing" you to PVP.

 

Explain to me why choice 2 or 3 is needed, other than a few player's OCD?

 

I think that there should be an indication that a player CHOSE not to do something.

 

A true completionist would be doing those things that were necessary to obtain all the rewards, not asking BW to hide any evidence that they are NOT true completionists and that they didn't do those things they don't want to do.

 

They are required because other companions in the Alliance are allowed to be rejected despite not being tedious to get. Why should the most tedious ones not get one?

According to your logic, Xalek should neither be refused nor killed because it's not true "completionism" (P.S: It's not about being a completionist, it's about not having a fu***** glowy icon at the top of my UI or an incomplete quest on my log for EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER I HAVE except the few troopers/Sith Warriors I still keep.).

About the part in bold, I have to ask, do you even logic? The absence of Pierce/Forex would be a pretty big indication that the player, in your own words, CHOSE to not recruit them.

In regards to your frequent references to a "comfort zone", is kinda like it when I DECIDE to leave it. Not when something charges headfirst in it and does it's best to remind me it's here even if I do nothing about it.

[Velgar]

Has anybody asked if other ally quests are locked behind the Pierce/4x pvp quest, ones that are pure PVE? If so, all the pvpers going on about totally optional no longer have that argument to resort to.

[Jumajin]

Doing 20 warzones for Pearce is more easy than what's required for Qyzen. World bosses or those champion things where I have no idea where to find them. All you need to do is to queue up.

 

You may not like being forced to do pvp bit have some thought for those pvpers who don't like spending ages trying for some time to make progress with Qyzen and not getting anywhere....

 

No sympathy.

 

Sorry, no sympathy for PvPers complaining about PvE requirements in what is a PvE-Centric game, like a vast majority of MMOs out there.

 

If PvPers want a PvP-centric experience, they might want to consider a MOBA and not an MMO.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Jumajin

[damonskye]

3) Remove Pierce/Forex from the Alliance system completely and make them fully optional

 

You realize they ARE completely optional, right?

 

If these were your character's companions before KotFE, you get them back without doing the PVP missions (just like a Consular gets Qyzen back without doing the world bosses/jagganath and the Agent gets Lokin back without the rakghoul business). They're just added extra things to do and are completely unnecessary if you don't want to use them.

[Leklor]

You realize they ARE completely optional, right?

 

If these were your character's companions before KotFE, you get them back without doing the PVP missions (just like a Consular gets Qyzen back without doing the world bosses/jagganath and the Agent gets Lokin back without the rakghoul business). They're just added extra things to do and are completely unnecessary if you don't want to use them.

 

They are not entirely optionnal since you receive an alert, giving you a nice and very annoying glowy icon at the top of your screen.

When you drop the quest, the alert comes back in full force.

You can NEVER opt-out.

[damonskye]

When you drop the quest, the alert comes back in full force.

You can NEVER opt-out.

 

So leave the quest untracked in your quest log if it bothers you too much, then you'll never see it.

 

I mean honestly, a yellow alert at the top of the page...

[Ganhob]

It's very simple:

Pve'rs don't want to pvp because they don't like it.

Pvp'ers don't want Pve'rs doing pvp because they have 1000 expertise, die in 2 secs, don't know how to play objectives and just get gestroyed over and over.

Doing warzones at level 65 now is just asking for a bullet in the head, EVERY match 4~5 people with 59k HP when fully pvp geared is about 67~72k.

I blame the Pve'rs?? NO.

I blame BIOWARE, again, messing up things we always told them not to do since BETA: Do NOT force PvP.

 

Then you say "it's a matter of choice, you don't have to do pvp if don't want to". Well, a companion is all about PvE, some people love that companion. Why the hell Bioware put a pvp aspect on it? Both are unhappy with this.

 

Simply put No

[Leklor]

So leave the quest untracked in your quest log if it bothers you too much, then you'll never see it.

 

I mean honestly, a yellow alert at the top of the page...

 

If that's enough for you, fantastic! I need closure. That's why I dislike the ending of Oricon too. And the Ilum questline.