Level Sync needs an Off Button! : ).

[GalacticKegger]

you cant have an option its unfair to the ones in level sync if someone has it off and they fight each other or someone plowing through your area when you quest

 

I agree either its on or its off their is no option no switch

I don't see unfairness being an issue since open world PvP is exclusively consensual ... at least on non-PvP servers. Level sync'd world bosses could be separately instanced since the elder game players want to simply blip in, get the kill and blip out anyway. So Alliance H2s, tactical FPs and tactical HMs could be separately instanced as well and for the same reason.

 

I would have no problem with level 65s buzzing me on Nar Shadaa. The chances are good that they'd be there either for story, cheevs or datacrons ... and none of those have anything to do with level other than how their few mob kills might ninja a leveling player. When not level sync'd they can simply go in, blow past mobs sans aggro, do the deed then instantly port back to fleet, their stronghold or guild cap ship. If they want to play with or mentor a leveling guildie as an OP 65 ... so? Mobs respawn. If they camp then they get reported for griefing. If a 65 truly wants to play with or mentor a leveling guildie at their guildmate's level then they can simply turn level sync on.

 

So is the threat of elder game toons terrorizing low level planets a realistic concern? Enough to justify reinventing the entire game? Hell no! This is a great community. There aren't enough ***hole players here to warrant the paranoia.

Edited January 3, 2016 by GalacticKegger

[GalacticKegger]

That is the middle ground he's saying. Level sync is needed for how they set up KOTFE. Learn to like it.

Then maybe Bioware needs to add that as a catch phrase on their SWTOR banner ads, press releases and web site. Edited January 3, 2016 by GalacticKegger

[DarthSpuds]

you cant have an option its unfair to the ones in level sync if someone has it off and they fight each other or someone plowing through your area when you quest

 

I agree either its on or its off their is no option no switch

 

It is NOT unfair to the ones with LS ON because THEY CHOSE TO HAVE LS ON.

 

All The Best

[Transcendent]

Having everything level with us now, combined with companion decustomization and the removal of level appropriate flashpoints between planets, killed everything in that progression but class story. Even the heroics were turned into H2 loot piñata walk throughs.

 

You raise a fair point, previously you would take a "stepping stones" approach to content as well as gearing for that content. In the process of doing so you would learn your class, which abilities do what, as well as learning which passives did what as you levelled.

 

Now? From what I'm seeing, that isn't the case. That doesn't bode well for any new operations that may come out, unless of course they make those super easy mode "loot piñata walk throughs".

[GalacticKegger]

You raise a fair point, previously you would take a "stepping stones" approach to content as well as gearing for that content. In the process of doing so you would learn your class, which abilities do what, as well as learning which passives did what as you levelled.

 

Now? From what I'm seeing, that isn't the case. That doesn't bode well for any new operations that may come out, unless of course they make those super easy mode "loot piñata walk throughs".

I personally can't speak to any new operations (I doubt that anyone can) or what they might offer in the way of technical game play challenges. But I'm guessing that GF Ops leaders will be spending as much time booting and recruiting (to counteract L2P deficiencies) than they will be physically progressing through the content because of the numbdumbdowns.

[DarthSpuds]

Ok, I've been playing through the KotFE stuff, dealing with the Star Fortress missions, and getting supplies for the resistance movements on various planets.

 

And I have to say this: I like what LS has done to this re-used content in making it relevant again - it hasn't as far as I can see made it any more of a challenge (in fact I'd suggest that Solo content is still ridiculously easy).

 

I still think that LS should have a toggle for general open-world content; I see no logic in making a level 65 character have to fight level 15 stuff again. One of the things that our characters build as they level and become more adept is a reputation. How many level 15 characters are really going to attack a level 65 legend that has stood against the very worst the galaxy has to offer and prevailed? Close to none.

 

But, in relation to the content for the Star Fortress missions I can see why Bioware has done what it has, and I think it has been reasonably successful.

 

All The Best

[Sukothai]

This is the first MMO I have played with a leveling sync, and it's stupid!

 

Back when City of Heroes was around, the only zones that were level synced were PVP areas, and that was the same with all other online games I have played. These devs don't know what the hell they are doing.

[SteveTheCynic]

Difficulty isn't my gripe with level sync. It's that dense packs of trash mobs that would once ignore me are now a PITA to navigate through and handily dismount me into a forced encounter for little to no benefit.

Where exactly are you having this problem of being dismounted, and why haven't you bought a mount with better knock-off protection?

[Mounds]

This is the first MMO I have played with a leveling sync, and it's stupid!

 

Back when City of Heroes was around, the only zones that were level synced were PVP areas, and that was the same with all other online games I have played. These devs don't know what the hell they are doing.

 

BTW GW2 does this lvl sync too and it works fine

they do know what they are doing because it works

[Johnkorriban]

I don't even see the problem at all here.

 

You can level as normal, you can't out level planets and gank people, but you do get a superior reward for going back to re-do old content and heroics, which is a plus. Even though the game is still so faceroll easy with level sync it makes it mildly more interesting not to one-shot everything... that's a plus, and encourages people to group up to do old things like world bosses... again a plus.

 

So remind what the negative of all this is again? "Right to level" *** is that? It's on the whole a good move, not perfect, but it seems the majority of people agree.

[EllieAnne]

. It removes the point of the system.

 

Which is what exactly?

[Exscarion]

Level sync was never intended to balance out "low level pvp". It was intended to make old planets relevant no matter what level you're at. In addition, your pvp argument makes no sense; if you have a guildie being harassed by a level 60 synced to level 34, you can still jump on your own 60-65 and watch said guildie's back. Nothing has changed about that. At all. What you're doing is crying over something irrelevant and trying to lump all players into your "us". A vast majority of the players in this game love level sync (myself included), and it was definitely something this game needed from day one.

 

ok that pvp thing is not my point at all. but this lie, that LS would make old stuff relevant again.

if you want to make something relevant bring quests for it and make it challenging! that's the way to make things relevant, not LS everybody and still let them faceroll the content!

 

 

That is the middle ground he's saying. Level sync is needed for how they set up KOTFE. Learn to like it.

 

why is it needed for the setup? it's not needed for any new storyline at all atm! (and when i am not wrong, they never needed a setup for sideline stories, accept for the setups who are meant for the mainstories)

 

 

and encourages people to group up to do old things like world bosses... again a plus.

 

encourages? i guess you mean force them!

[Princess_Chibi]

I don't even see the problem at all here.

 

You can level as normal, you can't out level planets and gank people, but you do get a superior reward for going back to re-do old content and heroics, which is a plus. Even though the game is still so faceroll easy with level sync it makes it mildly more interesting not to one-shot everything... that's a plus, and encourages people to group up to do old things like world bosses... again a plus.

 

So remind what the negative of all this is again? "Right to level" *** is that? It's on the whole a good move, not perfect, but it seems the majority of people agree.

 

You're not paying attention. You don't get "superior reward for going back to re-do old content". You get the roughly same f'n reward you did back in 3.0; it just takes longer and you have to deal with more trash in getting it. In other words, they're wasting our time for the same thing we've already done, all they did was drag it out.

 

THAT is not an improvement. If LS brought with it a 200-300% increase in mission reward (they actually gimped mission rewards WITH 4.0.1, so for credits it's actually lower) then maybe that could be a justification. But as of right now, they made missions more annoying (not harder, just unnecessarily more boring). .........And stop with the WB argument, it was shot down 40 pages ago.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Princess_Chibi

[Ghisallo]

why is it needed for the setup? it's not needed for any new storyline at all atm! (and when i am not wrong, they never needed a setup for sideline stories, accept for the setups who are meant for the mainstories)

 

The Alliance faction, Companion Affection, gear currency grind and even Star Fortresses are all actually part of the whole that is the current Story. You can not increase alliance faction without crates, crates you get from the level sync'd weeklies and from the Star Fortress unlock quests. These same crates give you gifts to bestow on your companions. They also provide you with currency which can be used to buy crates and/or companion gifts.

 

Now you may find these things and annoying grind as many do BUT they are the ONLY solo content that will keep players playing and thus paying between story chapters. Questionable design for the expac? At best BUT they have one of two choices if level sync is not mandatory.

 

1. have grayed out quests provide NO such rewards, thus making it impossible to increase alliance factions, impossible for solo players to get 216 and 220 gear and difficult as all heck for layers to increase Companion affection.

 

2. allow people to actually progress via grayed out content.

 

Now can you argue that SWTOR now focusing on a SP Storyline should not really have a grind? Sure. Can you argue that if they chose to have a grind it should not have been designed with forced level sync, which to many will exacerbate that grindy feeling through the simple fact you are not completely steam rolling a mob with a level that is 50% lower (or more) than you character? Sure. However B decided to have the grind, and in order to focus limited development resources on the cut scenes and voice acting, that is to be released according to a serialized release schedule they, they chose to have a grind that was built on recycled content.

 

So while people may HATE level sync, hate the grind and in hating it want it to be optional OR to go away, these sentiments do not make the fact that, due to the expac design, it is necessary.

 

 

encourages? i guess you mean force them!

 

it sure does force people to do it, for the reasons above. Of course you can refuse and increase the factions the slow way by only using currency from FPs and OPs AND never unlock the Star Fortresses while you do it that way.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Ghisallo

[GalacticKegger]

Now you may find these things and annoying grind as many do BUT they are the ONLY solo content that will keep players playing and thus paying between story chapters. Questionable design for the expac? At best BUT they have one of two choices if level sync is not mandatory.

 

1. have grayed out quests provide NO such rewards, thus making it impossible to increase alliance factions, impossible for solo players to get 216 and 220 gear and difficult as all heck for layers to increase Companion affection.

 

2. allow people to actually progress via grayed out content.

3. Elder game world bosses, Alliance H2s, tactical FPs and tactical HMs could be separately instanced similarly to Black Hole and Section X. It's not like the planets are lacking in spare real estate to accommodate it.

 

Elder game players don't want to mess with planets. They just want to QT in, complete it and QT out. The whole grind is set up that way. That's why every Alliance H2 has an icon in the mission panel that the player can click to instantly teleport them there, then to the next one ... and to the next one ...

 

Level 65s zipping around planets would be there primarily for story, cheevs or datacrons ... and none of those have anything to do with level. When not level sync'd they can simply go in, blow past mobs without the lowbies worrying about them stealing aggro, do the deed then instantly port back to fleet, their stronghold or guild cap ship. If they want to play with or mentor a leveling guildie as an OP 65 ... good for them! Mobs respawn. If they camp then they get reported for griefing. If a 65 truly wants to play with or mentor a leveling guildie at their guildmate's level then they can simply turn level sync on.

Edited January 3, 2016 by GalacticKegger

[Ghisallo]

3. Elder game world bosses, Alliance H2s, tactical FPs and tactical HMs could be separately instanced similarly to Black Hole and Section X. It's not like the planets are lacking in spare real estate to accommodate it.

Could they yes. HOWEVER there are two issues with this from their perspective.

 

1. and perhaps the most important, this would have required more developmental resources. I think it is pretty clear this was definitely an expac developed on a budget. hck they even go old school with what they have called the cheapest content to make, cut scenes and voice acting, and done away with the voice acting and even the decision wheel.

 

2. I think it also clear that this expac is about attracting new and returning players while trying to minimize the loss of existing players. Level sync, even though forced, makes this game look HUGE to these people, because with the instant 60's and fast tracked leveling via the story they will not have seen the content in question and they managed to do this with the restricted budget they clearly had.

 

please don't mistake that I am trying to defend this. I think the design of this expac was a bad idea from the beginning. All I am doing is looking at all the facts and saying "this is why they did it and why it will not change", bad idea not withstanding. Now they may swap stuff around when KotFE is over AND if EA gives them the budget to do so...but for this dev cycle it is simply too lat e because a majority of the playable end game solo content depends on it.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Ghisallo

[Ratajack]

3. Elder game world bosses, Alliance H2s, tactical FPs and tactical HMs could be separately instanced similarly to Black Hole and Section X. It's not like the planets are lacking in spare real estate to accommodate it.

 

Elder game players don't want to mess with planets. They just want to QT in, complete it and QT out. The whole grind is set up that way. That's why every Alliance H2 has an icon in the mission panel that the player can click to instantly teleport them there, then to the next one ... and to the next one ...

 

Elder gamers zipping around planets would be there primarily for story, cheevs or datacrons ... and none of those have anything to do with level. When not level sync'd they can simply go in, blow past mobs without the lowbies worrying about them stealing aggro, do the deed then instantly port back to fleet, their stronghold or guild cap ship. If they want to play with or mentor a leveling guildie as an OP 65 ... good for them! Mobs respawn. If they camp then they get reported for griefing. If a 65 truly wants to play with or mentor a leveling guildie at their guildmate's level then they can simply turn level sync on.

 

Or they can play the game as it is designed and stop whining, crying and demanding that BW cater to their aversion to effort. While it may not be a "challenge" to kill those low level mobs, it does still require effort, even if it is not taxing physical effort.

[GalacticKegger]

Could they yes. HOWEVER there are two issues with this from their perspective.

 

1. and perhaps the most important, this would have required more developmental resources. I think it is pretty clear this was definitely an expac developed on a budget. hck they even go old school with what they have called the cheapest content to make, cut scenes and voice acting, and done away with the voice acting and even the decision wheel.

 

2. I think it also clear that this expac is about attracting new and returning players while trying to minimize the loss of existing players. Level sync, even though forced, makes this game look HUGE to these people, because with the instant 60's and fast tracked leveling via the story they will not have seen the content in question and they managed to do this with the restricted budget they clearly had.

 

please don't mistake that I am trying to defend this. I think the design of this expac was a bad idea from the beginning. All I am doing is looking at all the facts and saying "this is why they did it and why it will not change", bad idea not withstanding.

No worries mate.

 

The newly attracted players will be seeing things for themselves soon enough. Hopefully most of them aren't MMO vagabonds and convert to subscription status ... because there will be a number of SWTOR purist expatriot holes to fill.

Edited January 3, 2016 by GalacticKegger

[GalacticKegger]

Or they can play the game as it is designed and stop whining, crying and demanding that BW cater to their aversion to effort. While it may not be a "challenge" to kill those low level mobs, it does still require effort, even if it is not taxing physical effort.

Huh? Who? Edited January 3, 2016 by GalacticKegger

[Ghisallo]

Or they can play the game as it is designed and stop whining, crying and demanding that BW cater to their aversion to effort. While it may not be a "challenge" to kill those low level mobs, it does still require effort, even if it is not taxing physical effort.

 

So basically people are not allowed to question a design that is a clear departure from over 4 years worth of play?

[Ghisallo]

No worries mate.

 

The newly attracted players will be seeing things for themselves soon enough. Hopefully most of them aren't MMO vagabonds and convert to subscription status ... because there will be a number of SWTOR purist expatriot holes to fill.

 

Well I think their hope was indeed a desperate one on minimizing the losses of existing players and maintaining new players to have a net gain. First Even some new players who joined right at launch have questioned to wait until Feb for the next chapter and what amounts to fluff subscription rewards to maintain subs. I think they made the same mistake they made at launch tbh, with one added factor.

 

While they claimed that they felt they had enough leveling content to give them time I think, though they are loath to admit it, they thought that the IP and loyalty to it, would help maintain subscriptions all on it's own. Now 4 years in they are hoping this, the new movie and loyalty to the game itself would make people say "don't worry we will give you the time you need."

 

The problem is they basically shut the door on new PvE content until August with a recent announcement and loyalty need to be rewarded, especially in a market that has a lot of competition currently.

[Raansu]

So basically people are not allowed to question a design that is a clear departure from over 4 years worth of play?

 

You mean like the removal of skill trees replaced by disciplines? You can cry all you want, its not going to change anything. For the 100th time MMO's evolve. If you don't like it, the choice is always there to stop playing.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Raansu

[GalacticKegger]

Well I think their hope was indeed a desperate one on minimizing the losses of existing players and maintaining new players to have a net gain. First Even some new players who joined right at launch have questioned to wait until Feb for the next chapter and what amounts to fluff subscription rewards to maintain subs. I think they made the same mistake they made at launch tbh, with one added factor.

 

While they claimed that they felt they had enough leveling content to give them time I think, though they are loath to admit it, they thought that the IP and loyalty to it, would help maintain subscriptions all on it's own. Now 4 years in they are hoping this, the new movie and loyalty to the game itself would make people say "don't worry we will give you the time you need."

 

The problem is they basically shut the door on new PvE content until August with a recent announcement and loyalty need to be rewarded, especially in a market that has a lot of competition currently.

 

At least after the launch fiasco we had Legacy to look forward to, which was the defining QoL upgrade for this game imho. Many of this game's best features came in that patch. But we all saw the game start transitioning with Makeb, where individual class stories went away and in it's place we got a group planet story arc and the Cartel Market. Then with Shadow of Revan, group planet story was replaced by single player planet story. Except that those solo story instances comprised maybe 5% of the expansion which allowed grouped players the ability to play with each other for the other 95% of the story arc.

 

Now with KotFE, 95% of the planet story arc is instanced and exclusive to solo play, and 5% of it allows players to group and down a few mobs between instances. For the Alliance elder game they could have simply copied and pasted what's being played now into separate instances and flip the level sync switch on for them. Cost and dev effort would have been minimal.

 

Rather, this was done to make the game into a single player mouse tube with a Barbie & Ken doll companionville elder game that could be maintained with a skeleton crew. Star Wars MMO fans lost an MMO in the process.

Edited January 3, 2016 by GalacticKegger

[Ratajack]

So basically people are not allowed to question a design that is a clear departure from over 4 years worth of play?

 

Questioning a decision is one thing, but at this point, the "questioning" has, IMO, reached the point of whining, crying and demanding that BW cater to the aversion to effort that some players seem to have.

 

You want to talk about changes in a 4 year old game? You want to go back to the way it was 4 years ago?

 

Let's start with leveling. Let's go back to a time before 12XP or the new streamlined leveling.

 

Let's talk about datacrons. For almost 4 years, this game did not have account wide datacrons. Let's go back to that.

 

As has been said, games change over time. Players need to learn to adjust to the changes. Whining, crying and banging your fists on the floor like a petulant 5 year old will not change this fact. Seldom is a change either universally liked or disliked. Some changes are liked by some. Other changes are liked by others.

 

This change seems to be one that many people accept. Some seem to be very happy with this change.

 

A few, though, continue to whine and cry about having to spend a few extra seconds going around a pack of mobs instead of straight through it, or actually having to hit more than one button in combat.

[GalacticKegger]

You mean like the removal of skill trees replaced by disciplines? You can cry all you want, its not going to change anything. For the 100th time MMO's evolve. If you don't like it, the choice is always there to stop playing.

That is correct ... the real tragedy here is that SWTOR is no longer among them. Edited January 3, 2016 by GalacticKegger