Ianosm Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 So, title pretty much says it all, do people feel that we were flat out lied to about choices making a difference? I've played the story through on light side and dark side choices on two chars. Chose opposite options where possible and there has been no material end result differences to either the story or characters. Maybe one line of dialogue difference. Now this wouldn't be a big thing if we hadn't specifically been told, repeatedly, that a huge part of this was an in depth story personalised because of your choices. That just isn't true, even specific cutscenes where you are given a choice to spare or kill or told that someone will die if you don't do this. The end result winds up the same whichever option you choose. One scene in particular really annoyed me, spoiler warning here, the fight outside gravestone with the knights and vakkorian slows time and tells you to use his power or Lana will die. I played through first as light side and I actually had to pause and think as I didn't want his power but didn't want Lana dead. I thought this was a meaningful choice. Little did I know it's not at all. Played on dark side and chose the opposite, end results? The exact same. Bending the truth, ok. Flat out lying to your consumers, less ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 So, title pretty much says it all, do people feel that we were flat out lied to about choices making a difference? I've played the story through on light side and dark side choices on two chars. Chose opposite options where possible and there has been no material end result differences to either the story or characters. Maybe one line of dialogue difference. Now this wouldn't be a big thing if we hadn't specifically been told, repeatedly, that a huge part of this was an in depth story personalised because of your choices. That just isn't true, even specific cutscenes where you are given a choice to spare or kill or told that someone will die if you don't do this. The end result winds up the same whichever option you choose. One scene in particular really annoyed me, spoiler warning here, the fight outside gravestone with the knights and vakkorian slows time and tells you to use his power or Lana will die. I played through first as light side and I actually had to pause and think as I didn't want his power but didn't want Lana dead. I thought this was a meaningful choice. Little did I know it's not at all. Played on dark side and chose the opposite, end results? The exact same. Bending the truth, ok. Flat out lying to your consumers, less ok. It's been like that since launch, why would you expect anything different? The 1-50 class stories were sold the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelious Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 One scene in particular really annoyed me, spoiler warning here, the fight outside gravestone with the knights and vakkorian slows time and tells you to use his power or Lana will die. I played through first as light side and I actually had to pause and think as I didn't want his power but didn't want Lana dead. I thought this was a meaningful choice. Little did I know it's not at all. Played on dark side and chose the opposite, end results? The exact same. Except Val is the who told you. Maybe believing every word from the mouth of ancient Sith entity which stuck in your head is not the best idea? Not to mention Lana is as close to female lead as it gets. No way they kill her off (I used the DS choice anyway though lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMaulUK Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 It's been like that since launch, why would you expect anything different? The 1-50 class stories were sold the same way. Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivithin Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 So, title pretty much says it all, do people feel that we were flat out lied to about choices making a difference? I've played the story through on light side and dark side choices on two chars. Chose opposite options where possible and there has been no material end result differences to either the story or characters. Maybe one line of dialogue difference. Now this wouldn't be a big thing if we hadn't specifically been told, repeatedly, that a huge part of this was an in depth story personalised because of your choices. That just isn't true, even specific cutscenes where you are given a choice to spare or kill or told that someone will die if you don't do this. The end result winds up the same whichever option you choose. One scene in particular really annoyed me, spoiler warning here, the fight outside gravestone with the knights and vakkorian slows time and tells you to use his power or Lana will die. I played through first as light side and I actually had to pause and think as I didn't want his power but didn't want Lana dead. I thought this was a meaningful choice. Little did I know it's not at all. Played on dark side and chose the opposite, end results? The exact same. Bending the truth, ok. Flat out lying to your consumers, less ok. We still do not know if it will or yet. what you describe is the same as reading a choose your own adventure book half way through then claiming its the same no mater the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeSangrea Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 How about the scene at the beginning where you get the option to kneel/join valkorian, or tell him to go screw himself, and in both cases he ends up dead with you getting blamed/frozen. I think actual branching story-lines is a pipe dream, and the best we can hope for is flavor additions like a different cut-scene, your companion saying "was that really necessary" etc. Personally, given the constraints they have to work with I think they did an awesome job story-wise. I like that I can play the way I want to, with my character being an evil *****, working for the republic, who has a darkside companion and all of this still more or less fits. While playing darkside in the vanilla game was fun as hell, it did suffer from ludo-narrative dissonance because the story was tailored around you being a space Jesus. Even though you are "the outlander" now, not having the universe changing around you does help to reinforce you simply being one piece in a much larger puzzle. I feel more immersed when I don't feel like the way I play my character is a constant contradiction to my role in the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWookie Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I agree with whoever said that we haven't finished the book yet. Your pact with Valk may come back to haunt you (if you choose to make one at the beginning). To me the thing I noticed more was the more minor seemingly strange character "opinions". Like when the pilot guy didn't like that I killed someone, and then 5 seconds later says "It's them or us" and shoots the other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobs_YourUncle Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well I don't know yet how much choices matter as I've only got to chapter 4. It sure seems like it matters in the sense of companions/alliance members approving or disapproving, appreciating, and remembering answers I gave... Tanno Vik sure seemed dead from my choice. Presumably he would still be alive had I not chose to kill him, and joined my alliance as well perhaps. I guess I'll find out on another playthrough later. In the end, however, its very subjective. To some the choices do matter, but only on the tiniest level. To others they will matter a lot. And then to some others the choices wont matter at all in the sense that the overall ending will be the same on any character no matter the choices... Our characters become a hero, at least in their own eyes. The next expansion still has to be relevant to everyone. You shouldn't expect choices to matter too much in a game that will have a continuation of the story, but they can branch around within the body of the story. Same start, same end, many different paths in between. That's the best we're going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarthOnansi Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Incorrect, the choices to let people live and die in the new expansion have influenced gameplay at a later time, having run 2 smugglers through this on different paths I can confirm this. I agree there is a lack of influence in the game generally as was first promised, however this latest expansion has been influenced by your decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) I was a little disappointed that the consequences (or lack thereof) of your choices didn't match the pre-expansion hype... At all. But I can't say I was surprised. Edited October 22, 2015 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricSevGirl Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) I actually didn't expect choices to matter because it's BW. It's on rails. I'm looking at this from a POV of art, design and story and I'm enjoying it enough to come back from being away for weeks because the game was stale. I don't know what's going to happen in the future of the story but I'll stick around enough to see it because the art is good. Now since we're on rails, we're stuck with undesirable companions that some BW dev thought was a great companion to jedi...really...sith working with jedi....not mine but I'm stuck because BW made it so. I can't kil said Sith...I can't make said sith go away....but that is BW. Choices never matter. The only choice that ever matters in the game is whether you are going to save your coins or spend then in the store. I'm sure EA/BW would control that too if they could. Edited October 22, 2015 by AlaricSevGirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I played through with my warrior and Kneeled to Valk. If anyone didnt maybe you can shootnme a pm or put it here is spoiler tags, if there is a difference between the two options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeSangrea Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I played through with my warrior and Kneeled to Valk. If anyone didnt maybe you can shootnme a pm or put it here is spoiler tags, if there is a difference between the two options. There isn't. Both times he dies and you get blamed for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anysao Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The Lana Beniko duel definitely stands in my mind as well as a wasted opportunity. She should have died, and I'm sure she would have sacrificed herself for us, too. The unfortunate thing is how critical she became to the story thereafter… to the point she "needed to live." And even if Vitiate (nope, not calling him Valkorion!) lied to us, someone cannot simply shrug off a lightsaber strike to the torso! After all, Thexan didn't… Or maybe you can, with Lana's overpowered heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDiggler Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I liked the story and I like the expansion but their are some things I'm disappointed in, and this game will never be KOTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kardinal_Woelki Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I never expected a branching story yet was still disappointed. Mainly because of what happened in ep8. In the boss battle I defeated Arcann with like 100% health and was clearly way stronger than him but still got defeated because I refused Valkorion's help. My character nearly died just because the writers want to force down my throat these supposed tough decisions. Every other decision pretty much is like either kill the babies or save them if you know what I mean. So no real decisions there. I don't even care for consequences anymore because I know they will be most likely way to underwhelming when one of these games get released (hope Fallout 4 will be an exception for once). I'm just hoping for many dialogue choices with many grey responses besides good and evil so I can define the personality of my character. I hoped that would be the case with fallen empire since there now is only one story arc but all in all it rather felt like watching a movie instead of Mass Effect type gameplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobs_YourUncle Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) I played through with my warrior and Kneeled to Valk. If anyone didnt maybe you can shootnme a pm or put it here is spoiler tags, if there is a difference between the two options. There is. You kneel and there is a cutscene where Arccan gets jealous and kills his pa. You get framed for it and put in carbonite where you find valky is part of you, and that's ok, you agreed to join with him. You do not kneel and there is a cutscene where you kill valky, he explodes, and you get knocked unconscious and put in carbonite where you find valky is part of you, and that's not ok because you hate the guy, but it is what it is. Edited October 22, 2015 by Bobs_YourUncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokdron Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The Lana Beniko duel definitely stands in my mind as well as a wasted opportunity. She should have died, and I'm sure she would have sacrificed herself for us, too. The unfortunate thing is how critical she became to the story thereafter… to the point she "needed to live." And even if Vitiate (nope, not calling him Valkorion!) lied to us, someone cannot simply shrug off a lightsaber strike to the torso! After all, Thexan didn't… Or maybe you can, with Lana's overpowered heals. What I feel should of happened to Lana in that scene is that picking the light option should of caused her to get injured that way further on in the story there is more temptation to take the emperor's offer for power. Chapter 8 is a good example of this in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTrooper Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Pretty much agree that it is a bit sad that 'so far' there hasn't been anything where there has been a real difference, but we aren't at the end yet. Also I know that Chapter 10 is written by the writer whom did the Imperial Agent storyline, so I am hoping there is some meaty choices in it where we potentially could see some differences due to choices made, just like there was in the Agent's story. Actually one thing that did bug me a little was how when talking to Sana-rae for the first time with my Imperial Agent there was no option to point out I had spoken to a Voss Mystic before. Would it not been that hard to put a line in there something along the lines of 'If <Outlander> = <Imperial Agent> allow <insert line to acknowleding meeting Voss Mystic before>"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutGrndZero Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I never expected a branching story yet was still disappointed. Mainly because of what happened in ep8. In the boss battle I defeated Arcann with like 100% health and was clearly way stronger than him but still got defeated because I refused Valkorion's help. My character nearly died just because the writers want to force down my throat these supposed tough decisions. Every other decision pretty much is like either kill the babies or save them if you know what I mean. So no real decisions there. I don't even care for consequences anymore because I know they will be most likely way to underwhelming when one of these games get released (hope Fallout 4 will be an exception for once). I'm just hoping for many dialogue choices with many grey responses besides good and evil so I can define the personality of my character. I hoped that would be the case with fallen empire since there now is only one story arc but all in all it rather felt like watching a movie instead of Mass Effect type gameplay Yeah they totally should have let us kill Arcann in chapter 8 just like they let the Sith Inquisitor kill Darth Thanaton when we first met him. Just because you don't see where the choices matter now (or because you are blind) doesn't mean they lied. The sense of entitlement and disconnect with reality in this thread is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpsmash Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) And there we have a very good example of why compatibilism can be true. Yes, the universe is deterministic and the end result is already determined in advance, but you do have a choice and you make these choices. Don't underestimate the value of choosing, despite the end result already being determined. Of course, real choice is different from 3 dialogue options. Edited October 22, 2015 by lpsmash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kardinal_Woelki Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Yeah they totally should have let us kill Arcann in chapter 8 just like they let the Sith Inquisitor kill Darth Thanaton when we first met him. Just because you don't see where the choices matter now (or because you are blind) doesn't mean they lied. The sense of entitlement and disconnect with reality in this thread is strong. You don't get it. My complain wasn't that I couldn't kill Arcann but that I got defeated no matter how strong I am. They should just have done something like I have to flee because of the enemy army. But I nearly died just to justify this one "decision". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benficakungfu Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 On a side note: the "force persuade" option in tenek fight is soooo funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianosm Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Yeah they totally should have let us kill Arcann in chapter 8 just like they let the Sith Inquisitor kill Darth Thanaton when we first met him. Just because you don't see where the choices matter now (or because you are blind) doesn't mean they lied. The sense of entitlement and disconnect with reality in this thread is strong. I get what you are saying in that the story isnt over but can you not see the frustration in that we are 9 chapters in and everyone is in the exact same place regardless of choices. All i am saying is that we were led to believe that our own stories woukd be somewhat different based on decisions and that isnt the case. If they had made a few key scenes like the lana choice actually impact your game it would have been so much better. Imagine actually having to choose between a companions death and remaining free of vitiate's influence. Now thats a meaningful choice. And thats my point, thats what they said would happen but it hasnt and it wont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Choices have never mattered in this game. We knew that it was already predetermined from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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