Legacy names -- allow us to change them

[AJediKnight]

But this isn't a last name system--it's a name by which your characters are drawn together but not their name.

 

For example, Han Solo is part of Skywalker's legacy, despite having a different name. Consider it a clan or an organization name.

 

It is a last name system because:

 

A) it was originally described as such -- the post announcing it did not call these legacy names, but legacy surnames.

 

B) it is the only surname system we have. And for people who the surnames are quite important to, this is -- and will probably always be -- the primary draw of the system.

[IronSith]

I will agree here. The fact that they're permanent to your account is rather..intrusive to your right to customize your characters.

 

To be honest, I'd even like to have separate surnames for different characters. But still tied to the same 'legacy' persay.

[_Miranda_]

Well, yes, this would certainly be ideal.

 

Have you ever seen the system in LotRO? It's geat. In Lord of the Rings Online, surnames:

 

1) Are not unique, so you can create familes, etc.

 

2) Are not linked to the first name, so, like in TOR, a character's first name remains the unique element, so you don't have to worry about someone pilfering 'your' name if you're John or Fred or something.

 

3) Can be changed at any time by the player.

 

Can you still have a legacy name without linking it to surnames? Of course. Absolutely. And it would still be just as effective of a system without the two being linked.

 

As it stands now, every player who takes surnames seriously must either come up with some ridiculous, stupid, far-fetched explaination for why their sith pureblood Sith Warrior is related to their human Trooper, or must hide the surnames entirely on every alt.

 

And, in the situation where your alt becomes a main? Well, you're just screwed, pal! Because, hey, only one surname per server, and our game is so ***-backwards in terms of programming that we, Bioware, can't even change them!

 

That's because LOTRO and Turbine understand and care about roleplaying.

 

Bioware doesn't seem to have a clue.

[AJediKnight]

That's because LOTRO and Turbine understand and care about roleplaying.

 

Bioware doesn't seem to have a clue.

 

Well, yeah. You knew that the moment they announced they wouldn't even enforce naming restrictions on RP servers.

[_Miranda_]

But this isn't a last name system--it's a name by which your characters are drawn together but not their name.

 

For example, Han Solo is part of Skywalker's legacy, despite having a different name. Consider it a clan or an organization name.

 

And yet where is he referred to as Han Skywalker?

 

Aside from slash fiction, absolutely nowhere.

 

And what about cross faction? Would you consider Boba Fett part of the "Skywalker legacy?" Jabba? Palpatine? The Rancor?

[AJediKnight]

And yet where is he referred to as Han Skywalker?

 

Aside from slash fiction, absolutely nowhere.

 

And what about cross faction? Would you consider Boba Fett part of the "Skywalker legacy?" Jabba? Palpatine? The Rancor?

 

Logic is a dangerous tool that, when wielded like a weapon, tends to inflame the masses. Be wary of slathering it on too thick -- you may drown in a sea of fools.

[AlarienEvenstar]

A couple points to start: the word is "bypassing," not "bipassing." Bipassing sounds like something to do with ... personal preference.

 

Also, bumping your own thread constantly defeats any argument towards a show of maturity. You can make the best argument in the world, but if you constantly feel the need to shout "look at me," "look at MEEEE!!!!," then you come off as petulant. This is also supported by the idea that one would actually leave their guild because they didn't get the last name they wanted. Is it your guild, or just some people you've been invited to play with and have a common chat channel with? There is a difference.

 

Finally, I am not against changing the surname as a paid, albeit expensive, microtransaction. Keep in mind though that just because you want to change your legacy name, doesn't mean that you will get the one you want. There's always a good chance that it's already taken.

 

I am not, however, in support of non-unique surnames that are also non-account specific. Last names have lead to an excess of stupidity in character names in games, where phrases are more important than names are. I personally am tired of seeing characters named things like "Chilling Withmyhomies," in games. I'm glad to know that if he makes a character named Ralph, he'd probably just be called "Ralph" which is far more palatable. Though the thought of "Ralph Withmyhomes" is somewhat entertaining.

 

I am also not a fan of seeing my own characters surnames duplicated on other players. Admit it or not, but MMO's are a community. If you don't believe otherwise, then you are one of the unfortunately many WoW-Babies (meaning your first MMO character was around the WOW period, rather than a comment on your age or maturity). Players from the UO, EQ, and DAOC era remember the concept of reputation and how it followed people. If you were a ninja looter, kill-stealer, or other tool, then everyone knew it, and you found yourself outside the community. In WOW, the same thing did not apply. You had to be incredibly notorious to finally be rejected by the oversized and anonymous community.

 

All my characters have always carried the title/surname Evenstar in MMO's, when possible. I do occasionally have an alt or two, but not often. It would annoy me to find that some ******* "Johnny, the Kill-stealer, Evenstar" had been associated with me or my characters. The ability to "own" the legacy name on a server is a major bonus for me.

 

Lastly, as far as arguments for it go, as a guild and raid leader, I have the responsibility to protect my guild and raids from idiots. While you bring up the argument, over and over ad nauseum that "omg you can hide your name," you can be assured that displaying your legacy title will be a requirement for anyone looking to join my guild or invited as a pickup on a raid. For most people, this will be a 3 second inconvenience and meaningless. For my group or raid, it could be the difference between smooth sailing and a dramatic headache. So, yes, you can hide it, and by doing so, choose to stay apart from those I play with. I'm ok with that.

 

That said, again, I recognize that some people are rash, thoughtless, or just made a simple mistake in spelling and end up with names that they didn't intend as a long term decision. For them, I'm ok with them paying to fix it and replace it with something else.

 

So, in the end, I partially support the idea, but am very much against many of the complaints otherwise made.

[AJediKnight]

Also, bumping your own thread constantly defeats any argument towards a show of maturity. You can make the best argument in the world, but if you constantly feel the need to shout "look at me," "look at MEEEE!!!!," then you come off as petulant. This is also supported by the idea that one would actually leave their guild because they didn't get the last name they wanted. Is it your guild, or just some people you've been invited to play with and have a common chat channel with? There is a difference.

 

Hi. Welcome to the forums. Did you notice the search feature? No? That's because THERE ISN'T ONE. Bumping a thread is the only way to keep it active. That's why you're seeing the same 10 threads repeated fifty times a day -- because the moment a thread falls off the first page, it is simply replaced rather than summoned back up. Consolidating conversation -- and, in particular, complaints -- in one thread not only makes them more powerful, it also keeps the forums clean.

 

Finally, I am not against changing the surname as a paid, albeit expensive, microtransaction. Keep in mind though that just because you want to change your legacy name, doesn't mean that you will get the one you want. There's always a good chance that it's already taken.

 

Mine will not be taken.

 

I am not, however, in support of non-unique surnames that are also non-account specific. Last names have lead to an excess of stupidity in character names in games, where phrases are more important than names are. I personally am tired of seeing characters named things like "Chilling Withmyhomies," in games. I'm glad to know that if he makes a character named Ralph, he'd probably just be called "Ralph" which is far more palatable. Though the thought of "Ralph Withmyhomes" is somewhat entertaining.

 

Whoops, looks like you're starting to allow your own wish to moderate and control the actions of others interfere with your perception of reality. Sadly, you cannot, in fact, tell other people what to do. And since Bioware hasn't stopped these names from existing, your desire to see them cut down at the knees really isn't going to accomplish much other than getting your panties in a twist.

 

I am also not a fan of seeing my own characters surnames duplicated on other players. Admit it or not, but MMO's are a community. If you don't believe otherwise, then you are one of the unfortunately many WoW-Babies (meaning your first MMO character was around the WOW period, rather than a comment on your age or maturity). Players from the UO, EQ, and DAOC era remember the concept of reputation and how it followed people. If you were a ninja looter, kill-stealer, or other tool, then everyone knew it, and you found yourself outside the community. In WOW, the same thing did not apply. You had to be incredibly notorious to finally be rejected by the oversized and anonymous community.

 

In terms of maturity, LotRO beat the pants off of any MMO I have ever seen, and it had non unique surnames. This has everything to do with community and absolutely nothing to do with tightening the grip of ridiculous restrictions.

 

All my characters have always carried the title/surname Evenstar in MMO's, when possible. I do occasionally have an alt or two, but not often. It would annoy me to find that some ******* "Johnny, the Kill-stealer, Evenstar" had been associated with me or my characters. The ability to "own" the legacy name on a server is a major bonus for me.

 

Wow, how incredibly creative -- Arwen's "last name."

 

Lastly, as far as arguments for it go, as a guild and raid leader, I have the responsibility to protect my guild and raids from idiots. While you bring up the argument, over and over ad nauseum that "omg you can hide your name," you can be assured that displaying your legacy title will be a requirement for anyone looking to join my guild or invited as a pickup on a raid

.

 

Your ridiculous rules not only do not concern me; they are wholly flawed. Not only might the person you are recruiting have hidden their legacy name on prevous characters who ninja'd from you or otherwise wronged you (meaning you don't know them from Adam), but they could go right on continuing the practice while on alts without you even knowing it. Even in your police state of a guild, the surnames aren't going to save you from bad apples.

Edited December 30, 2011 by AJediKnight

[DimitriM]

Hopefully they will let us change surnames.

There was really no explanation or anything. I had heard of the Legacy thing but never really knew what it was. I finished my quest, a window poped up, and I typed in something I was thinking at the time.

[BCFlood]

I have had the option to choose a legacy name for the past few days and I've opted to close the box each time it asks me for a name because I worry I am going to choose something I'll hate later. The idea is interesting that you can identify someone's characters by their surname, but in reality there are so many people on your server I know I'd never make that connection.

 

I'd prefer the option to change it later if we do deem our original choice dumb later. And for the RPs, I can see the argument that having to share that name across all characters (even different species) is less than desired. Until I can come up with something I know I'll like and use for (possibly) years, I'll deal with the annoyance of closing the box every time it comes up.

[JimG]

I would suspect at some point they will provide some sort of name change ability (not just for legacy names but for character names too).

[Kirjava]

It'd be really nice if they could commicate that to us. Hell, they don't even have to be precise: just 'yeah, we're not really happy with the surnames as they stand now, either. Something else is in the works -- we promise.' That's all it would take! But, as has happened so many other times in this game's development cycle we, the players, are kept in the dark. It was like this in beta when people told them that the character creator was rather weak, or that there was ability delay, or skill bloat -- suggestions; good, honest suggestions, were ignored wholesale.

 

I understand this is 'their game' -- certainly, WoW has been designing under that umbrella concept for years (where the players come last and are told nothing) and it has worked out for them. But, unlike in TOR, when there is mass outcry in WoW about the stupidity of decisions, an 'official' generally steps forward to at least acknowledge that they are aware of the concerns.

 

That never happens here.

 

I seem to remember them changing the Jedi Wizard name, as well as the Massive Lightsabers due to community feedback....

 

Oh, then there was the whole changing European release date, due to the outcry about different release dates, as well as them implementing the grace period due to customer feedback.

 

All in all, I'd say BioWare do, and have listened.

[masterprtzl]

How about this, you can have a last name, and it becomes unique to the account in that only you can chose the same last name on your characters on that server, no one else can jump in that last name unless maybe an in game marriage happens (think old Everquest marriages). Legacy can still be a point system just detached from the last name...

 

i.e. I have last name "Darthbla" I can adopt the last name "Darthbla" on any of my future characters on this realm, no one else could, but I could also chose a different one for my characters.

 

 

Also, as to the lack of support and community response from BW, give them some time. Its their first MMO and its only a week or two after release. Let them stabilize some stuff and get their currently list of things to do off their plate, then I am sure they will higher or assign some forum mods and developer contacts for the forums.

Edited December 30, 2011 by masterprtzl

[Zerverus]

Hi. Welcome to the forums. Did you notice the search feature? No? That's because THERE ISN'T ONE. Bumping a thread is the only way to keep it active. That's why you're seeing the same 10 threads repeated fifty times a day -- because the moment a thread falls off the first page, it is simply replaced rather than summoned back up. Consolidating conversation -- and, in particular, complaints -- in one thread not only makes them more powerful, it also keeps the forums clean.

 

 

 

Mine will not be taken.

 

 

 

Whoops, looks like you're starting to allow your own wish to moderate and control the actions of others interfere with your perception of reality. Sadly, you cannot, in fact, tell other people what to do. And since Bioware hasn't stopped these names from existing, your desire to see them cut down at the knees really isn't going to accomplish much other than getting your panties in a twist.

 

 

 

In terms of maturity, LotRO beat the pants off of any MMO I have ever seen, and it had non unique surnames. This has everything to do with community and absolutely nothing to do with tightening the grip of ridiculous restrictions.

 

 

 

Wow, how incredibly creative -- Arwen's "last name."

 

.

 

Your ridiculous rules not only do not concern me; they are wholly flawed. Not only might the person you are recruiting have hidden their legacy name on prevous characters who ninja'd from you or otherwise wronged you (meaning you don't know them from Adam), but they could go right on continuing the practice while on alts without you even knowing it. Even in your police state of a guild, the surnames aren't going to save you from bad apples.

 

Ouch, Someone got butchered really hard, Lol'd at the Arwen Bit.

[Ellianshia]

I know, I know, no-one asked me, and it doesn't concern me, etcetera. I personally have no objection to allowing the ability to change legacy names, be it as a paid service, be it as a service that would cost someone 10k credits, or 100k credits, or whatever. I honestly don't care. What I do care about is people (Read: OP) constantly bringing up LotRO as the best way to handle last names and what-not. Well, Dorothy, dearest, we are not in Kansas anymore. This is the way Bioware decided to create their legacy system and this is the way it is. Only one of my characters uses it as a surname, every other character I have shows up as "The <name> Legacy" even though some of them are same races and what-not.

 

I personally (Read: it is my personal opinion, I honestly couldn't care less what you think about it) also believe that the OP is going about this the completely wrong way. You're effectively throwing a temper tantrum and throwing insults at pretty much everyone who tries to make a comment that disagrees with you in any way. Take a chill pill, step back a moment and think about it. If you were a BW admin, reading a forum thread, who are you more likely to listen to? The obvious 15-year-old throwing a tantrum or the mature person that is bringing up fair and valid points about the situation?

 

I would certainly agree with Evenstar that the Legacy name is a simple way to make sure you're not grabbing a random douche along for your raid. Yes, yes, yes, you can hide legacy name. You want to come to a raid with me? Let me see some ID, or get out. I'm not the police to ask for an ID? Well, guess what, it's my raid. You get to do it my way, no highway option. The same way I'd ask to check the ID of someone that a friend of mine brought to my parties to make sure that they're allowed to be there and that I'm not going to end up in jail because I let them drink or because I gave them the location where they could go to have sex.

 

Anyways, enough with that. I'm 100% certain that they will allow legacy name changes. I'm also 100% certain that the Customer Support people told you that they are unable to do so under orders. What, do you think they're going to risk their job for your enjoyment by saying: "Hey, we can do it, but we're not supposed to. Sorry"? Not in this economy, they won't. Bioware has a lot on their plate at this particular moment. Specifically, they're working on fixing numerous bugs and balance issues. I'm sure that every random Bioware employee cruising the forum is going to jump at the prospect of giving you the information you so desperately want: "Yes, there will be a legacy name change", but as you said, there's about 10 threads about the legacy system popping up each day. Do you check each and every one of them to make sure a BW admin didn't respond on one of the other threads? Didn't think so. Then again, why should they, when there's no unified location for everyone to step in and give their opinion on the system, nor is there a location where at least 50% of the people aren't simply whining about the situation?

 

The legacy system is presently just a skeleton of what it's supposed to be. I don't expect to see them allowing changes until it's at least a bit more advanced. And while I'd love to see same-sex relationships with companions and legacy perks showing up in the next week or two, I understand that there are much bigger issues that need addressing first, so I sit back, enjoy the game and wait for an official announcement. I suggest you do the same. And really, what difference does the last name make in the long run? It's not like you can have five people with the same first name that you need a last name to be distinguished by. As any capable Roleplayer will tell you, if the game doesn't allow for something, you come up with a solution during roleplay, rather than relying on the game to provide it for you. Did all of my characters in WoW have last names? You can bet your rear-end they did. Did I have the ability allowed by the game to show such a last name glued to my title? No, of course not. But hey, I guess LotRO didn't actually make your RP skills any better with its ability to allow for surnames. In fact, I do find it rather entertaining that you insist that two people with the same last name must be related. Because I'm sure every person with the Smith surname in the world is related, right? Right?

 

Come on now, at least you're not stuck with something like Tosser or ZOMGWTFBBQ, right?

[SpartanND]

What can man do against such reckless hate?

[Stridah]

I like having 1 legacy because for all characters i am "ThePeoplesChamp"

[Veiran]

Legacy Surnames is a bad idea.. Go make an interwebs petition and get everyone to sign it, maybe then they'd at least post in response to it, lol.

 

Just extend the name length limit and allow us to use a single space in our names, problem god damned solved.

 

Oh, and give every character a free one-time rename token, of course... Pretty basic stuff.

[Jiraque]

I love my surname.. Sindri. LORD SINDRI AWAITS YOU

[mayjin]

I made a mistake..forgot to add THE in front of my surname..would love to be able to chage that.

[Rahl_Windsong]

Well, yes, this would certainly be ideal.

 

Have you ever seen the system in LotRO? It's geat. In Lord of the Rings Online, surnames:

 

1) Are not unique, so you can create familes, etc.

 

2) Are not linked to the first name, so, like in TOR, a character's first name remains the unique element, so you don't have to worry about someone pilfering 'your' name if you're John or Fred or something.

 

3) Can be changed at any time by the player.

 

Can you still have a legacy name without linking it to surnames? Of course. Absolutely. And it would still be just as effective of a system without the two being linked.

 

As it stands now, every player who takes surnames seriously must either come up with some ridiculous, stupid, far-fetched explaination for why their sith pureblood Sith Warrior is related to their human Trooper, or must hide the surnames entirely on every alt.

 

And, in the situation where your alt becomes a main? Well, you're just screwed, pal! Because, hey, only one surname per server, and our game is so ***-backwards in terms of programming that we, Bioware, can't even change them!

 

One flaw to this argument is that Darth Vader was in fact, Anakin Skywalker, father to Luke Skywalker, and his twin sister, both of which were on the opposite side as the other until the end of course...

Edited December 30, 2011 by Rahl_Windsong

[Zerverus]

 

I personally (Read: it is my personal opinion, I honestly couldn't care less what you think about it) also believe that the OP is going about this the completely wrong way. You're effectively throwing a temper tantrum and throwing insults at pretty much everyone who tries to make a comment that disagrees with you in any way. Take a chill pill, step back a moment and think about it. If you were a BW admin, reading a forum thread, who are you more likely to listen to? The obvious 15-year-old throwing a tantrum or the mature person that is bringing up fair and valid points about the situation?

 

 

I Don't see how the OP is throwing temper tantrums, when people make threads I'm sure they want people to disagree/agree with them to get supporters, and when people DO disagree I think the OP does have the right to defend their views on the Situation.

 

We know that BW admins cant change the surnames at the given time that's why this thread is called "legacy names -- allow us to change them" after all.

 

~Zerverus

Edited December 30, 2011 by Zerverus

[AlarienEvenstar]

Hi. Welcome to the forums. Did you notice the search feature? No? That's because THERE ISN'T ONE. Bumping a thread is the only way to keep it active. That's why you're seeing the same 10 threads repeated fifty times a day -- because the moment a thread falls off the first page, it is simply replaced rather than summoned back up. Consolidating conversation -- and, in particular, complaints -- in one thread not only makes them more powerful, it also keeps the forums clean.

 

This is called rationalizing.

 

If you don't like my reasons given for supporting the legacy system, I'm ok with that. You are the one that made a mistake, not me. Now you have to live with it, I don't. If you cannot take a moment to recognize the fact that I supported the outcome you more or less wished for, then you show a complete lack of reason. Your comments are, again, petulant.

 

This is an MMO. It is a community game. My interested in regulating others is the same as it would be in any other community game. This is not a game between you and Bioware. It is a game between you, Bioware, and the other couple thousand people on the server. Hence, the reason why certain kinds of names and language can be banned. If you wish for a game that's just you and Bioware, I suggest Mass Effect or Dragon Age.

 

And yes, Evenstar isn't original. It is the English version of Arwen's Sindarin title, "Undomiel." It is not a last name, Tolkien's Elves do not have "last names." Further, while I admit that it is not original and is also used by Tolkien, it's usage pre-dates him. You can look that up if you like.

[Zerverus]

And yes, Evenstar isn't original. It is the English version of Arwen's Sindarin title, "Undomiel." It is not a last name, Tolkien's Elves do not have "last names." Further, while I admit that it is not original and is also used by Tolkien, it's usage pre-dates him. You can look that up if you like.

 

Are we on some Lotro Thread? I'm sure we don't need a lord of the rings lesson, Lets keep this "legacy" related please.

[Jujjan]

I'll be the first to admit that I made a mistake when I created my legacy name. I thought I was going to stick with my Jedi Knight... but I wound up later switching to a Sith Inquisitor.

 

To the people for whom these things matter (and granted, that isn't everyone by any means), surnames are of huge importance. We were the people who booed (loudly) when you announced the decision to link legacy names to surnames; and we're the same people who still cringe every time we have to choose between a Twi'lek and a Sith Pureblood on opposite factions either having the same surname or having none at all. I'm not going to lie and pretend that I represent everyone, or even, perhaps, a majority -- but I am hardly the only person who cares about this.

 

Back to the topic at hand, I chose the wrong surname, and wound up choosing a different character as my main. She will either now have to have no surname (unacceptable), or the wrong surname (also unacceptable), or I can abandon my guild and reroll on another server. As awful as such a prospect is, this is the direction I am now learning.

 

Because there is no method to change surnames at present (you can't petition to have it done [which begs the question -- what happens when someone chooses a profane legacy name?], you can't delete every character on the server to reset it [which I would have been willing to do] -- you literally cannot do anything but leave the server), if you make a mistake, mispelling, or simply choose something you wind up hating, that's it. There's nothing that can be done.

 

And I would be willing to pay -- PAY! REAL FRIGGIN MONEY -- to change my surname right now. I cannot. I am offering hard, real-life currency in exchange for such a process, and am being turned away. Hell, even if I was holding my hand out and asking for a one-time change for free, I don't think that would be that extreme an expectation.

 

But no; not only does Bioware not want my money; they have apparently constructued a system with the legacy that is so profoundly and rigidly 'locked in' to the core of the game that something as simple as a name can't even be changed by a GM. That's just foul design -- there's no way around it. To say I am disappointed would be a profound understatement.

 

 

Last night i was tired when i completed my first Legacy.

So i entered my FIRST name in the box where the legacy name is supposed to be.

 

Pressed enter and OMG!!!! The rest is history

 

CSR refuses to help me with this.

I have never in my life experienced CS where they refuse to help a paying customer. Im shocked by this.

 

As of last night im running around with two first names...