Ion Rail Guns .. wth ?

[RickDagles]

While I wouldn't want to change the current meta, I think Bolo's idea would be cool as an alternate mode. A 6th map type where everyone has to play the lower tier ships. I've suggested doing a lower tier super serious night before. And in a few months when everyone is mastered on Harbinger it could actually work.

 

 

T1 Scout (laser/pod) counters T2 GS

T2 GS counters T2 Bomber

T2 Bomber counters T1 Scout

T2 Strike (charged plating, HLC, clusters) counters T1 Scout

T3 Strike (directionals, repair drone) would be the jack of all trades ship

 

The T2 Strike could actually be pretty decent against the T2 GS with missile spam. But it would also be extremely prone to dying from slug railguns. It would be a very interesting dynamic. I feel the the TDM meta would definitely be a good mix of those 5 ships.

Edited October 13, 2015 by RickDagles

[Verain]

If the devs were willing to make a map type, I'd greatly prefer they just fix the damned ships instead. The top meta components are better, but not by so much that some dev tweaks couldn't fix them. I wouldn't mind map types that make you play a TYPE of ship, but they would need to fix the hangar for that- you'd need a hangar for normal games, and one for the "strikes and bombers" ruleset, or whatever, and the one that is appropriate would show up in the game in question.

 

I do remember the "low tier" idea. I think that the time for that is coming up- when you first brought it up, I don't think everyone had all the ships they didn't play regularly mastered. I also think we'd want a different name for it- I really dislike the "tier list" naming convention, because it sends a bad message to players looking in. I think it's valuable to convey which ships are valuable in which metas, and especially which components, because players need that to make decisions, and stuff like "pick the ship you like the most" is going to hurt them, but neither is it great to have like, Tune's tier list as a starting point. Heck, the meta even changed some since then- we definitely see some tight use for girl bombers that were used in more niche ways back then, and we see a lot more use for type 3 gunships as being able to snipe further past a gunship line and escape when pressured, as compared to type 1 gunships.

[RickDagles]

If the devs were willing to make a map type, I'd greatly prefer they just fix the damned ships instead. The top meta components are better, but not by so much that some dev tweaks couldn't fix them. I wouldn't mind map types that make you play a TYPE of ship, but they would need to fix the hangar for that- you'd need a hangar for normal games, and one for the "strikes and bombers" ruleset, or whatever, and the one that is appropriate would show up in the game in question.

 

I do remember the "low tier" idea. I think that the time for that is coming up- when you first brought it up, I don't think everyone had all the ships they didn't play regularly mastered. I also think we'd want a different name for it- I really dislike the "tier list" naming convention, because it sends a bad message to players looking in. I think it's valuable to convey which ships are valuable in which metas, and especially which components, because players need that to make decisions, and stuff like "pick the ship you like the most" is going to hurt them, but neither is it great to have like, Tune's tier list as a starting point. Heck, the meta even changed some since then- we definitely see some tight use for girl bombers that were used in more niche ways back then, and we see a lot more use for type 3 gunships as being able to snipe further past a gunship line and escape when pressured, as compared to type 1 gunships.

 

 

Eh I dunno I played T3 GS like that well before I suggested the tower tier idea. How about we call it the Strike Friendly Meta?

[Zennan]

Eh I dunno I played T3 GS like that well before I suggested the tower tier idea. How about we call it the Strike Friendly Meta?

 

We should call it... GSF on Strike.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Gunships have long dominated the field of battle ,especially in TDM . For those of us who do not play GS ie: scouts ,bombers and SF's this ion rail is a frustrating and undeniable "super weapon" that gives more and more advantage to the GS , unbalancing the flow of combat. When you are ripped out of a barrel roll , or full boost to lie dead in the water so to speak 20-10k (well out of weapon range) , with no power to engines, or weapons or shields ,and an added bonus that drains your recharge preventing you from boosting out , or evading the predictable next attack is terrible. All one can do is sit and watch the charge of the next rail attack usually slug and your demise , over and over again. It's practically impossible to breach a GS wall now ,this has frustrated me now no end for a long time. Developers maybe you should take a look at GSF battles and the GS kill ratio compared to scouts etc and give us some form of defence against these attacks to even the playing field .. with 2 -4 GS's acting as a wall with Ion and Slug rounds , Average players like myself cannot even get close, let alone break it, you may as well crash into something over and over to end the match, or not play at all. Im sure some of you with exceptional abilities will disagree ,but to noobs and less exceptional pilots like myself it's a "why bother playing it at all scenario".

 

Isa everything that can be possibly complained about in GSF has already been complained about. I know you're new here but don't get worked up over something that has been perpetually ignored for years.

 

The type of player that keeps bringing it up is something that is impolite to point out.

 

The type of player who passively insults someone who they've probably never played with or against, or anyone else for that matter, deserves to be called the most despicable person on the GSF forums. Isalina, if it wasn't for the fact she's playing from Australia with 300ms ping, would be one of the best pilots on Jedi Cov and is probably a damn good pilot on Harbinger. She's also one of my closest friends in game, so watch it.

 

That being said, most people don't ever visit the forums, be they noobs, mediocre pilots, or veterans. I only joined a month ago and have been playing for a year now, and came here to complain that the weapons and stuff being deselected bug hadn't been fixed. These questions will keep coming up because the Devs have completely forgotten this part of the game existed.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited October 14, 2015 by FlavivsAetivs

[MaximilianPower]

The type of player who passively insults someone who they've probably never played with or against, or anyone else for that matter, deserves to be called the most despicable person on the GSF forums. Isalina, if it wasn't for the fact she's playing from Australia with 300ms ping, would be one of the best pilots on Jedi Cov and is probably a damn good pilot on Harbinger. She's also one of my closest friends in game, so watch it.

 

I discussed this thread with her a bit in game the other day, and stressed some of the more useful comments posted above...Ramalina's & Siraka's, for example. She wasn't aware of the utility of PDie, so I think maybe she'll give that a shot.

 

The original post was basically venting, and ultimately it did yield some useful info for her. It was less one of those "OMG GSF SUX, RAWR, HAX" threads, but more of a cry for help. Even though the complaint about ion lolgun has been rehashed in these parts many times, it can't hurt to reiterate those counters. GSFers overall seem to be some the most positive/helpful folks in the game (certainly relative to the cesspool of ground pvp) - it'd be nice if we could maintain that reputation even in threads like this.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Sorry Zuck, I'm defensive of my friends (you included). I only just saw this thread now, otherwise I would have replied far earlier.

 

Verain's veiled insults aren't making the GSF community look helpful either though. But there's no point in going back and forth in an ad hominem argument.

 

On another note, I'm a bit baffled as to why she didn't ask in-game first though, I'm sure someone like you or someone else who knows scouts really well could have helped her.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited October 14, 2015 by FlavivsAetivs

[nyghtrunner]

Sorry Zuck, I'm defensive of my friends (you included). I only just saw this thread now, otherwise I would have replied far earlier.

 

Verain's veiled insults aren't making the GSF community look helpful either though. But there's no point in going back and forth in an ad hominem argument.

 

On another note, I'm a bit baffled as to why she didn't ask in-game first though, I'm sure someone like you or someone else who knows scouts really well could have helped her.

 

~ Eudoxia

Will she be around tomorrow night? I'd be happy to hop on Vorfelan and go over the Scout builds I use, and why I use them, and some more general tips on how to try to avoid Ion spam.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Will she be around tomorrow night? I'd be happy to hop on Vorfelan and go over the Scout builds I use, and why I use them, and some more general tips on how to try to avoid Ion spam.

 

She's usually on about 7PM-11PM US EST and then again about 10AM-12PM EST. I think she was partying last night (this morning for me) so she's probably hungover. Might not be on this morning (tonight for us in EST). Damn time zones make things weird.

 

Pop in around 6:30 PM tonight and when you see me online I'll invite you. Or later, whatever time works. This will be good for several pub pilots actually, so you might want to do this in GSF chat. Have a "class" with Graendhal! xD

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited October 15, 2015 by FlavivsAetivs

[nyghtrunner]

She's usually on about 7-11 US EST and then again about 10-12 EST. I think she was partying last night (this morning for me) so she's probably hungover. Might not be on this morning (tonight for us in EST). Damn time zones make things weird.

 

Pop in around 6:30 PM tonight and when you see me online I'll invite you. Or later, whatever time works. This will be good for several pub pilots actually, so you might want to do this in GSF chat. Have a "class" with Graendhal! xD

 

~ Eudoxia

Heh... last time I tried that, everyone was like, "who?"

 

And it will most likely be tomorrow night. Have plans tonight. They may or may not have to do with drinking at trivia night. And as such, it's probably way safer if I don't try to teach people how to fly while drunk* when I get home sometime around 11PM.

 

I'll pop in Pubside tomorrow and say something in GSF chat. Cheers!

 

*possibly drunk.

[Verain]

IThe type of player who passively insults someone who they've probably never played with or against, or anyone else for that matter, deserves to be called the most despicable person on the GSF forums.

 

If someone is crying about railguns with that tone, they generally lack experience and skill. I don't need to play with or against someone to know that, because thus far it has been true without exception. I don't need to be passive about it if you like- post a thread like this, and you are simply not familiar with how to attack and position.

 

The second sentence is another tell- "For those of us who do not play GS". Why would anyone not play anything? You can have every ship and switch every death. If someone explicitly avoids playing a ship type, they are going to know a LOT less about how to evade that ship and attack that ship.

 

The final big tell is that the complaint is about ION railgun specifically. Ion is a massive player in the meta, but has a great deal of ways to deal with it, from hiding your shields with directionals, to distortion field, to power diving away. Getting hit in a barrel roll? Choose a component that ion isn't great against. Of course the energy-attacking weapon is good against the engine component with the highest energy cost. Power dive instead, or whatever. Ion has crowd control properties. When players are outplayed with crowd control, they make more excuses and cry threads than other ways, in pretty much any game. Most experienced players who want to address gunships in the meta want to talk about slug's burst damage, because it is much harder to turn off.

 

 

Nerf threads are hostile. A nerf thread normally says one of these things:

> "I lost and didn't deserve to lose because lesser players are able to beat me because of X. Nerf X."

> "I don't like the way the game is right now because X is dominating all the choices I could make. Nerf X, but don't buff the Y and Z no one is using. Totally nerf X for sure, even though everyone uses that."

A good nerf thread will avoid passively implying that either some bad players are overperforming, or that the game itself is badly designed because of some thing. A good nerf thread will explain why something is too good, and suggest a different role for it, and often bring up what the effect of it is on the meta. It will discuss the ability from the perspective of the player using it, the player on the other end of it, and the emergent effects of the game in general.

 

Post a hostile thread, get a hostile response.

 

That being said, most people don't ever visit the forums, be they noobs, mediocre pilots, or veterans. I only joined a month ago and have been playing for a year now, and came here to complain that the weapons and stuff being deselected bug hadn't been fixed. These questions will keep coming up because the Devs have completely forgotten this part of the game existed.

 

I think the devs are sitting around anxiously waiting for the suits to give them hours to work on GSF, personally.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Verain

[FlavivsAetivs]

If someone is crying about railguns with that tone, they generally lack experience and skill.

 

Oh, well that's a bold statement. Gunships ARE overpowered, there is no denying that. It takes strategy to break a match where it's you against a wall of gunships, and half the time you don't have a team capable of doing it. Isalina certainly didn't when it was basically her solo against 5 gunships, so she has a right to be upset. I would too, regardless of what I was in. Not even someone as good as Tenebrious or Graendhal could win against that, especially when gunships hunt you because you're the best pilot online.

 

Isa underestimates her skill, she's damn good but lags like hell 99% of the time she's playing because she lives in Australia. I'm sure the others from Jedi Covenant on here would gladly back me up in saying she's not some noob whining about gunships.

 

~ Eudoxia

[DakhathKilrathi]

Oh, well that's a bold statement. Gunships ARE overpowered, there is no denying that.

 

No, they're not. And I'm surprised to see an apparently well-regarded player say something like this. The OP didn't know better. You should.

 

It takes strategy to break a match where it's you against a wall of gunships, and half the time you don't have a team capable of doing it.

 

Isalina certainly didn't when it was basically her solo against 5 gunships, so she has a right to be upset. I would too, regardless of what I was in. Not even someone as good as Tenebrious or Graendhal could win against that, especially when gunships hunt you because you're the best pilot online. Isa underestimates her skill, she's damn good but lags like hell 99% of the time she's playing because she lives in Australia. I'm sure the others from Jedi Covenant on here would gladly back me up in saying she's not some noob whining about gunships.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

 

Being upset doesn't make her right. Reread the initial post. Her points (and the fact that she even mentioned Strike fighters as a viable choice) indicate to me that she doesn't understand the meta as well as she could. The complaint is about gunships, but the problem, by the sound of it, is that she lost to a team that was better coordinated than her own.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's generally what's supposed to happen, isn't it? The better coordinated team that plays the game according to the rules wins, assuming skill is not a factor.

 

it was basically her solo against 5 gunships

 

And I want to single this bit out specifically. Again, assuming equal skill, a solo player is supposed to lose 5 vs 1. It sucks that she had a bad team, but the correct response to that is to find people to group with, not to come whine on the forums about game mechanics that she doesn't appear to understand very well.

 

Verain's not wrong. He's just not sugar coating it, and frankly, I don't see why he should.

 

Edit: To be clear: I'm not saying the OP is a bad player. I am saying that she needs more experience. We were all there at some point, and some people need more time than others. I personally needed ~1500 games before I started to really understand what was happening, but then, I didn't try the other ship classes very much until then. Learning to play the three major ship types helped me learn to play against them too, and that's what I recommend that the OP does. If something is giving you trouble, learn to play it. Once you know how to play it, you also know what works best to kill it.

Edited October 15, 2015 by DakhathKilrathi

[FlavivsAetivs]

No, they're not. And I'm surprised to see a well-regarded player say something like this. The OP didn't know better. You should.

 

I'll admit I'm wrong here. IMO (key word is opinion), Gunships can be overpowered, but aren't always. But then again I always fly strike fighter so everything seems overpowered to me.

 

On a slightly egotistical note, glad to see I'm considered well regarded, lol. Being respectful and polite (at least 90% of the time) I find is always a boon.

 

Being upset doesn't make her right. Reread the initial post. Her points (and the fact that she even mentioned Strike fighters as a viable choice) indicate to me that she doesn't understand the meta as well as she could. The complaint is about gunships, but the problem, by the sound of it, is that she lost to a team that was better coordinated than her own.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's generally what's supposed to happen, isn't it? The better coordinated team that plays the game according to the rules wins, assuming skill is not a factor.

 

I never said she was right, I'm just saying she has a right to be upset. Also, coordination is not something oft found on Jedi Cov, trust me, lol. Most people queue solo here. You end up with 1-2 good guys in most matches and then suddenly come up against 5 or so purely by chance and get smashed.

 

And I want to single this bit out specifically. Again, assuming equal skill, a solo player is supposed to lose 5 vs 1. It sucks that she had a bad team, but the correct response to that is to find people to group with, not to come whine on the forums about game mechanics that she doesn't appear to understand very well.

 

Hence why I mentioned being hunted. She was being hunted by 1-2 gunships across several matches, then ended up in one against 5 all at once, and that's what snapped her.

 

Edit: To be clear: I'm not saying the OP is a bad player. I am saying that she needs more experience. We were all there at some point, and some people need more time than others. I personally needed ~1500 games before I started to really understand what was happening, but then, I didn't try the other ship classes very much until then. Learning to play the three major ship types helped me learn to play against them too, and that's what I recommend that the OP does. If something is giving you trouble, learn to play it. Once you know how to play it, you also know what works best to kill it.

 

I'm just going to say Isa has been around for over a year (I don't know how long but longer than I have) and has most of her ships mastered (AFAIK).

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited October 15, 2015 by FlavivsAetivs

[MaximilianPower]

Oh, well that's a bold statement. Gunships ARE overpowered, there is no denying that.

 

Well, to be fair, gunships are no more OP than battlescouts. For every "GS is OP" thread, we've seen just as many "how did that sting 1-shot me, HAX, RAWR" threads. These are the meta ships; they have always proven to be the toughest to counter.

 

Isa has a lot of games under her belt; she's no noob, I realize that. But I think she'd agree that there's still a lot she can learn about the game.

 

Edit: To be clear: I'm not saying the OP is a bad player. I am saying that she needs more experience. We were all there at some point, and some people need more time than others. I personally needed ~1500 games before I started to really understand what was happening, but then, I didn't try the other ship classes very much until then. Learning to play the three major ship types helped me learn to play against them too, and that's what I recommend that the OP does. If something is giving you trouble, learn to play it. Once you know how to play it, you also know what works best to kill it.

 

...and I think if Isa is still reading this thread: this is the best takeaway. She is by no means a bad pilot, but having largely limited herself to scout, she's inevitably going to be blind to many of the other ships' weaknesses.

 

I flew pretty much exclusively GS for my first couple thousand games; only after that, I began trying the other ships in earnest. Initially it was a "know thine enemy" sort of exercise, more than anything else. And while I'm no top-tier T2 scout pilot, I think I've become competent, and more importantly I now have a much better grasp of that ship's capabilities and limitations. I'm doing the same thing with T1 bombers now. Even if she doesn't particularly enjoy the GS playstyle, it would probably behoove her to give it the old college try, if only to get a better feel for what she's up against.

Edited October 15, 2015 by MaximilianPower

[FlavivsAetivs]

I could probably use a few hundred games under other ships myself. Hence why I'm levelling my alts and getting them into GSF. Found that being good in a Clarion allows you to wreck people in a stock scout!

 

Working on learning bomber too (Traesha told me how to load one out).

 

Still don't like gunships. Hate flying them as much as I hate flying against them, cause I can't hit the broad side of a barn with one lol.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited October 15, 2015 by FlavivsAetivs

[Archonitek]

I'm just gonna pitch in my 2 cents as a non gunship flying Aussie sitting at 250-300ms.

 

I'm usually more concerned about the actual pilots sitting behind the gunship rather than the actual gunships themselves. My scout build is specifically centered around killing gunships, and my load out is built around the possibility of getting hit by an ion rail and having multiple options available for me to bail out.

 

I'm usually quite gleeful when I see 4-5 gunship pilots because it means I can rack up a fairly decent number of kills against them. But when I start having trouble is when I'm up against then pilots who I know are better flyers than me, regardless of if they are in a gunships or a scout.

 

However I do understand that sometimes your team isn't as experienced as you like them to be so when up against a gunship wall that it feels frustrating that their team can knock yours outta the sky no matter how much you hustle back and forth trying to take them out, even if you're personally doing quite well.

[FlavivsAetivs]

I'm just gonna pitch in my 2 cents as a non gunship flying Aussie sitting at 250-300ms.

 

I'm usually more concerned about the actual pilots sitting behind the gunship rather than the actual gunships themselves. My scout build is specifically centered around killing gunships, and my load out is built around the possibility of getting hit by an ion rail and having multiple options available for me to bail out.

 

I'm usually quite gleeful when I see 4-5 gunship pilots because it means I can rack up a fairly decent number of kills against them. But when I start having trouble is when I'm up against then pilots who I know are better flyers than me, regardless of if they are in a gunships or a scout.

 

However I do understand that sometimes your team isn't as experienced as you like them to be so when up against a gunship wall that it feels frustrating that their team can knock yours outta the sky no matter how much you hustle back and forth trying to take them out, even if you're personally doing quite well.

 

There's no rep system here but I agree with this post.^^

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited October 15, 2015 by FlavivsAetivs

[Grickus]

Trying to tell people ion rail gun is balanced is a bit ludicrous.

 

Let me explain this real simple, a scout is the hard counter to a gunship..but for whatever reason they decided to give a gunship a 15000 range attack that completely neutralizes one. Whats worse is that attack is specifically designed to neutralize bombers with the spread effect, but it also neutralizes everything else it hits due to the drains.

 

That ability would be on par with a bomber getting a shield that negates all railguns( since a gunship is supposed to be the hard counter to a bomber)..do they have that? no..then it is not a balanced skill.

 

Or course there are ways to still defeat one, you absolutely have to be a better pilot then the person flying the gunship, equal skill you will lose. This is not balanced. The end.

 

This is clearly a case of I don't want to give up my "I win" button... There is a reason why you sometimes see 5-6 gunships in a death match...same reason you see 5-6 of the same class in ground pvp. Trying to defend something that is clearly broken is just you trying to justify being able to wtfpwn people with it.

[btbarrett]

Trying to tell people ion rail gun is balanced is a bit ludicrous.

 

Let me explain this real simple, a scout is the hard counter to a gunship..but for whatever reason they decided to give a gunship a 15000 range attack that completely neutralizes one. Whats worse is that attack is specifically designed to neutralize bombers with the spread effect, but it also neutralizes everything else it hits due to the drains.

 

That ability would be on par with a bomber getting a shield that negates all railguns( since a gunship is supposed to be the hard counter to a bomber)..do they have that? no..then it is not a balanced skill.

 

Or course there are ways to still defeat one, you absolutely have to be a better pilot then the person flying the gunship, equal skill you will lose. This is not balanced. The end.

 

This is clearly a case of I don't want to give up my "I win" button... There is a reason why you sometimes see 5-6 gunships in a death match...same reason you see 5-6 of the same class in ground pvp. Trying to defend something that is clearly broken is just you trying to justify being able to wtfpwn people with it.

 

Well good on you for seeing through the mountains of expert opinions that say otherwise. I am sure this isn't an experience issue and it has nothing to do with your personal inability to effectively deal with Ion rail. It MUST be the case that we are all lying in a desperate attempt to farm newbs.

[Danalon]

Or course there are ways to still defeat one, you absolutely have to be a better pilot then the person flying the gunship, equal skill you will lose. This is not balanced. The end.

 

As a T2 scout. Tab through enemies until you find a gunship. Check boost energy, if it's enough, boost until you're in firing range, avoid being in front of the Gunship. Slow down to fire, use DF or retros if you think you'll be under attack during you unload damage. Use TT/Wingman if the Gunship uses DF. If the DF runs, chase it but pay attention to it's teammates.

 

It's not like this is rocket science. T2 Scout always wins, except it's pilot makes a huge mistake.

If someone in a T2 scout loses to any Gunship there is either a huge skill gap involved or there is a gearing problem (when the Scout isn't outfitted properly or it's a freshly bought scout vs a mastered gunship) or the gunship had help.

What you're writing, that the scout has to be better than the gunship, isn't true.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Danalon

[Grickus]

It is absolutely true.....your whole argument relies on you getting close enough to the gunship before it sees you. There is this new thing called 20,000 range sensors.

 

90% of a pilots skill really is map awareness, if you take 2 equally skilled ( see: aware) pilots, the gunship always wins.

 

Another pretty good example though, if you take 5 scouts versus 5 bombers ( both teams being coordinated) the 5 bombers will mop the floor with the scouts( as they are supposed to). Now if you take those same 5 scouts and put them versus 5 gunships that are watching each others backs..guess who wins.( hint, it isn't the scouts unless they are much better pilots)

 

Again, there is a reason why you see teams of 5+ gunships in deathmatch commonly.

 

Gunships are deadly enough with just a slug, the spread on Ion is still good for killing bomber's minefields without the power drain...why does Ion need to have the power drain at all. The power drain component of this gun is completely unnecessary to deal with a bomber( which is what this weapon is designed for).

 

I''ll ask again, why does the longest range ship in the game also need what is essentially a root?...Besides to make them invulnerable to their own hard counter. For what reason do they need a 15k range power drain?

 

If you are going to reply to this, then just answer that one question instead of giving excuses about why it's fine. If you can do that you might even change my mind about this.

[btbarrett]

I''ll ask again, why does the longest range ship in the game also need what is essentially a root?...Besides to make them invulnerable to their own hard counter. For what reason do they need a 15k range power drain?

 

If you are going to reply to this, then just answer that one question instead of giving excuses about why it's fine. If you can do that you might even change my mind about this.

 

Fine. If I answer this one question, will you let this stupid topic die? Why do snipers (a 35m PvP class) have access to so many roots and snares? For the same reason that gunships do: they suck at close range and if a target gets to melee range the gunship is screwed. And you are just absolutely wrong about two equally skilled pilots always favoring the gunship. If it is 1v1, the scout wins 99% of the time.

 

I am nowhere near the best scout pilot in the world, but if it is just me and a gunship, that gunship has a bad day. It doesn't matter if it is Verain, Mika, Tsukuyomi, Vexxial, Xi'ao, Despon, or whoever. I see the GS targetting me? Pop Disto and Running Interference and fly evasively towards the GS utilizing LoS. IF they manage to land a Ion rail I simply power dive towards them and am now on top of them. As long I am not dumb and don't try to face tank a rail shot (I am sometimes dumb) that GS is in big trouble now. If it is a T1, they need to rely on BLCs and getting distance from me. The problem with the BLCs is I can out-turn and out-maneuver the GS all day long so they won't be able to take many on-target shots on me. The problem with getting distance is that my scout is faster and has more sustained boost so it is almost impossible to outrun me. I can get LoSed for a long time and it can take me a while to whittle the GS down, but 1v1 I will come out on top in that situation 10/10 times.

 

I have no doubt that this will do nothing to persuade you because your mind is completely made up, but this really, really, REALLY is a learn-to-play issue. Look through the countless other threads on this topics to get hints on how to engage and defeat a GS.

 

This reminds me of an idea I had actually: I think we should get 8 of the best GS pilots on Harb and 8 of the best scout pilots and queue sync until we get a TDM. We can then post a video of the scouts dominating that encounter and finally have something to point to when these stupid threads emerge.

[Lavaar]

Well, since this is back up here again, I may as well write out some of my own personal thoughts about the ion railgun, without getting waist deep into the "Gunships are OP" debate, since I don't feel like beating a dead horse this morning. These are just my own thoughts, not meant to be taken as gospel, and come from a combination of my admittedly sparse use of the component in question, as well as being subjected to its effects a countless number of times.

 

In short, the ion railgun is overpowered.

 

Now, before you skip the rest of this post to explain to me why it's not, hear me out, and listen to the reasons why it is acceptable for it to be this way.

 

The ion railgun is a force to be reckoned with. If you aren't prepared for it, it can render even the most skilled pilots totally useless and sitting ducks that even the greenest of the two-shippers would have no problem taking out. When compared to its other ion siblings, the ion missile, and the ion mine, the differences are laughable. The ion missile, for example, has less than half the range of the railgun, requires a lock-on time, hardly drains anything, is NOT AoE, and on top of that, has limited ammunition! However, we can see in this case that the railgun was not designed to fill the same role as the missile was intended to, due to the ships that are able to equip each component.

 

Many on here are quick to offer hard counters to many of the problems people have with certain weapons. Having mine problems? Charged plating. Scouts? Mines. Missiles? DF missile break. However with the ion railgun, people will often suggest power dive, booster recharge, DF, running interference, or anything else that increases evasion. These ship choices need to be present on pretty much every ship that faces an ion railgun or else they all face the prospect of being caught dead in the water. To suggest a slew of limited and often specialized components to counter one type of secondary weapon often cramps a lot of people's play styles, and makes the game far less diverse, something a lot of players aren't willing to do and become frustrated by their lack of options.

 

The Ion railgun changes everything about the game in which it is being utilized. To add icing to the cake, the drain affect is incredibly frustrating to be disabled by, and in effect, the extra 3 or 4 seconds of being "dead in the water" amount to adding extra time to your respawn countdown, as well as feeling foolish, embarrassed, and vulnerable in game. Being shot with a fully charged ion railgun is the GSF equivalent of having your pants pulled down in public.

 

However, this is not the end of my story. There is a rather eloquent design decision that went into the ion RG which allows it to be balanced in the overall sense.

 

Ion railgun is ONLY available on the quarrel. You know the quarrel right? Slow, hard to turn, its like a space-tractor.

 

The balance inherently lies in the fact that the quarrel itself would be, without ion railgun, sparsely better than the comet breaker in its effectiveness. The quarrel as a ship is entirely dependent on having this one weapon as its defining feature, a weapon that allows it to impact the game in the same way as mines and beacons change the game when bombers enter the fray, or how the battlefield changes when a highly maneuverable and dangerous scout comes to play. Try taking away the beacon from the rampart, or the engine capacity of the scout, and see how those ships fare when some of their most defining features are neutered.

 

These abilities inherently change the battlefield landscape, and are balanced not so much as individual components when compared to one another, but when observed by which ship they can be equipped by. Hard counters, in these cases, aren't always the best options for everyone. Awareness, experience, teamwork, and appropriate use of cover can be used to overcome these dangerous and effective strategies, and becoming adept in recognizing and dealing with these threats are what separates the good players from the great ones.

[Danalon]

90% of a pilots skill really is map awareness, if you take 2 equally skilled ( see: aware) pilots, the gunship always wins.

 

If you take 2 equally skilled pilots in an 1v1 environment, the best ship will be the T2 Scout.

 

Again, there is a reason why you see teams of 5+ gunships in deathmatch commonly.

 

The reason why Gunship stacking is so popular is the simple fact that it's the easiest way to farm inexperienced pilots. A lot of poeple have no idea how to counter gunships and if it happens that there's a whole team of people not knowing how to counter gunships, then gunship is the obvious choice to fly against them.

 

I''ll ask again, why does the longest range ship in the game also need what is essentially a root?...Besides to make them invulnerable to their own hard counter. For what reason do they need a 15k range power drain?

 

Without Ion Rail the T1 Gunship would be as bad as the T2 Gunship which is one of the worst ships in GSF overall. Ion Rail is the component which makes the T1 Gunship important to the meta.

It's the same reason why Scouts, the fastest and most evasive ships, have damage cooldowns and the same reason why Bombers, the most durable ships, have deployables.

Railguns (especially Ion), damage cooldowns and deploybales - all of those are very powerful. They're the reasons, why Gunships, Scouts and Bombers are meta-relevant ships.

 

Oh and by the way. Ion Rail doesn't make "invulnerable to counters". When I'm in a Scout and attack a Gunship, literally the only chance of the Gunship to kill me is to hit me with a well charged rail shot before I'm in firing range; and because of boosting, passive and active evasion, as well as evasive flying, that almost never happens - and that's just the case if the Gunship notices me, which most of them don't.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Danalon