Answer from NYCC Q&A I found kind of amusing...

[Uruare]

The sky is falling!

 

The world is ending and there are no excuses left!

 

EVERYONE, IT'S NAKED MACARENA TIME!

[Damask_Rose]

This is no NGE.

 

This community is nothing like the one in SW:G.

 

I have to wonder how many of those that compare anything to the NGE were actually there. More specifically, how many were at a level in the game to know what was really going on and what impact it had. I was.

 

Before the NGE:

I ran a guild that had 80 active players during the weeknights and more on the weekends.

 

I ran a lvl5 city on Naboo with over 500 players, many of which were active across numerous guilds.

 

Our server forums were so active, a new thread could fall to page 3 in an hour.

 

I had no level number. I knew where the dangerous animals were on each planet and knew what I could kill or couldn't kill...from experience.

 

I was a Bounty Hunter/ Creature Handler with the best 3 Greater Sludge Panthers a BH could want. I also had another 15 or so pets ranging from big spiders to a rancor that I could call out and play tricks with and help me in combat.

 

Post NGE:

I watched as guild member after member logged in and logged out for the last time.

 

The city became a ghost town as other guilds in the city suffered the same impact ours did.

 

The forums were more like SWTOR's are now.

 

I had a level number and suddenly there were planets with huge animals that could be one-shot and small animals that could kill me easily all based on the planet I was on.

 

My Creature Handler class was removed and all my pets became unusable. My only option was to "stuff" them as statues in my home.

 

Picture that...I had companions I had played with for Years removed and stuffed as statues in my home because of the NGE.

 

Imagine if SWTOR just flat out removed the Companion option from the game and all you could do was look at them in your stronghold! That was how bad the NGE was. 4.0 is nothing compared to that.

 

Sounds like your guild had more people than my entire server My server was a ghost town long before nge. I could play all day and never see more than one or two other players, including maco'd entertainers.

[SelinaH]

At this point, I'm leaning toward the opinion that it's possible they honestly had no conception that some of the changes they're making would provoke such a hugely negative reaction from many in the player community.

 

It often feels as though tunnel vision compels them to hone in on their metrics to the exclusion of all else, rather than use a modicum of common sense and basic psychology.

 

For example: People may (sometimes) be willing to accept change, but they really don't like losing stuff, or feeling as though they've been lied to. It's not really that hard to predict.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I didn't find it amusing at all.

[Rafaman]

Man oh man, I'm really looking forward to launch to end all of this handwringing. Hopefully, those who can't handle the changes will go and many of the influx of new players will stay. But mainly, the boards can go back to the usual nitpicking instead of this fear mongering.

 

It has been very humorous, but now it is just getting bitter. And my bet is the bitter ones will get even more disappointed when they are left holding on to the "I told you so" because the game will just continue as it has for the past 3 years.

[Transcendent]

The real question is what will actually retain a huge player base. Raid and Flashpoint based endgame is not doing it so story is getting a second try, this time with a reason to subscribe monthly.

 

How will that work then?

 

• Subscribe, get first 9 chapters.
  
• Unsubscribe
  
• Find something in-between story that isn't rehashed old content?
  
• Come back next year when the rest is released, play rest of story.
  

 

While episodic story content is all well and good (and it is good), without other new content being released on a steady schedule? It is an MMO after all, and most of us who have been playing the game consistently have already done the class stories, so once the new unified story is done?

 

• Conquests? Temporarily suspended.
  
• Crafting? Major changes (not all good)
  
• Achievements? Not worth the effort if they keep removing them.
  
• Raiding? Nothing new, also now scaled so good luck with NiM content
  
• PvP? Worst balance of classes ever, about to get worse in 4.0.
  
• GSF? Erm.... still no controller support, and steep learning curve for new players.
  
• Space "on-rails"? Nothing new.
  
• Exploration? With level sync? No thanks.
  
• Alliances? Why bother?
  

 

Not seeing much reason to subscribe in-between the story releases. The only good positive thing I've seen about KotFE aside from story, relates directly to some of the changes for the Cartel Market. That's just one persons opinion though, I don't expect anyone else to share it.

[Reno_Tarshil]

How will that work then?

 

• Subscribe, get first 9 chapters.
  
• Unsubscribe
  
• Find something in-between story that isn't rehashed old content?
  
• Come back next year when the rest is released, play rest of story.
  

 

While episodic story content is all well and good (and it is good), without other new content being released on a steady schedule? It is an MMO after all, and most of us who have been playing the game consistently have already done the class stories, so once the new unified story is done?

 

• Conquests? Temporarily suspended.
  
• Crafting? Major changes (not all good)
  
• Achievements? Not worth the effort if they keep removing them.
  
• Raiding? Nothing new, also now scaled so good luck with NiM content
  
• PvP? Worst balance of classes ever, about to get worse in 4.0.
  
• GSF? Erm.... still no controller support, and steep learning curve for new players.
  
• Space "on-rails"? Nothing new.
  
• Exploration? With level sync? No thanks.
  
• Alliances? Why bother?
  

 

Not seeing much reason to subscribe in-between the story releases. The only good positive thing I've seen about KotFE aside from story, relates directly to some of the changes for the Cartel Market. That's just one persons opinion though, I don't expect anyone else to share it.

 

If the story is good in those first 9 chapters and subsequent releases, there would be no reason to unsub in regards to that.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Reno_Tarshil

[Transcendent]

If the story is good in those first 9 chapters and subsequent releases, there would be no reason to unsub in regards to that.

 

Of course there is. Why pay monthly, when I can wait for the rest to be released and then resubscribe and then play it through?

 

It's not as though I'm going to be playing anything else in the game, with all the changes I don't like the look of. I do play games for fun Reno I can get my kicks elsewhere in the meantime. The only exception to this would be if the combat team miraculously made the Merc / Mando class viable in PvP instead of the constant instagib class it is now.

[Infernixx]

It should be noted....again....that they've anticipated the aforementioned concerns.

 

They've alluded to an Alliance system where we have to earn new companions with daily and weekly quests. So, if you want to earn all the companions that you want, you're going to have to stick around and grind them out.

 

Of course, if you don't care about grinding dailies for new stuff and doing stuff every week to get new stuff then sure. You could sub for one month and then quit, but honestly, it seems silly to me that there are people out there that would conceivably want to sub for the story but not stay stubbed to get more of the story through the Alliance system.

 

But, who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and there's people out there like that. People are weird.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Of course there is. Why pay monthly, when I can wait for the rest to be released and then resubscribe and then play it through?

 

It's not as though I'm going to be playing anything else in the game, with all the changes I don't like the look of. I do play games for fun Reno I can get my kicks elsewhere in the meantime. The only exception to this would be if the combat team miraculously made the Merc / Mando class viable in PvP instead of the constant instagib class it is now.

 

The feeling of wanting to know what comes next. I read several manga and often times I get caught up with an ongoing series wanting to know what comes next but have to wait. And if this feeling is really strong because of an excellent story you will snatch up the next chapter to see what happens next without thinking about it.

 

Note: When I say You, I don't mean you, I mean you in a general sense.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Reno_Tarshil

[DomiSotto]

It should be noted....again....that they've anticipated the aforementioned concerns.

 

They've alluded to an Alliance system where we have to earn new companions with daily and weekly quests. So, if you want to earn all the companions that you want, you're going to have to stick around and grind them out.

 

Out of 40 companions that I have met in the class stories the only one I would grind for day after day, week after week would have been Zenith, and that's only if he had a romance. Seriously, if the new companions are what is going to entice us to subscribe... well, where is the info that would make me reconsider my decision to drop the sub? I love BioWARE, I really do! But I kind of have my doubts they would create a companion that would make me want to grind. And I have seen zero official posts on those new companions except for Lana Beniko (whatever...).

 

Honestly, I understand that BioWARE's goal is to bring the population in to improve the queue, but I'd just love to see cross-faction, because I am worried that no matter what they would do, the Republic will always be under-represented. I am tired of faction-dancing and sending gear back and forth.

Edited October 9, 2015 by DomiSotto

[bluroq]

Let me translate for you:

 

A SWTOR developer is totally tired of working on this game. He phones a former SW galaxies developer, asks him how they managed to kill off their game. The galaxies dev tells him that he should make a dramatic change to the nature of the entire game and dramatically change the playing experience, this will alienate his whole core player base.

Edited October 9, 2015 by bluroq

[Teladis]

The age of raid or die in mmo is coming to a end. SWTOR is learning from the past mistake. Focus on content for more players>Raids.

[Quraswren]

It should be noted....again....that they've anticipated the aforementioned concerns.

 

They've alluded to an Alliance system where we have to earn new companions with daily and weekly quests. So, if you want to earn all the companions that you want, you're going to have to stick around and grind them out.

 

Of course, if you don't care about grinding dailies for new stuff and doing stuff every week to get new stuff then sure. You could sub for one month and then quit, but honestly, it seems silly to me that there are people out there that would conceivably want to sub for the story but not stay stubbed to get more of the story through the Alliance system.

 

But, who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and there's people out there like that. People are weird.

 

Kinda dilutes your point knowing that you can get any of your old companions back just by using the companion terminal. Why grind unless you just wanted one of the other companions. I'm so attached to the companions I have, I cannot see taking on this grind to get some other generic companion who uses a blaster or double bladed light saber.

 

My sage will pull nadia and be done with it. My BH will pull blizz and be done with it. The story will be wrapped up rather quickly and when its done, I'll pull out my favorite companions never missing a beat on the story and skipping a grind just to get back some generic companion other than in looks.

 

I'm not sure that alliance system is cool enough to warrant that much grind.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Quraswren

[TravelersWay]

I think you're right...the words he used to describe why SOE made the NGE, seem to be very comparable to many of the things I see happening with 4.0.

 

The scope of the changes are obviously vastly different, but the phrasing could certainly be applied to either update (NGE or 4.0).

 

I tried not to agree because the NGE was something unlike gamers have witnessed before or since, except for ARR, but I think I agree with you Tux.

[robertthebard]

Not sure if ironic is the correct word to use here, but anyone find it amusing? Emphasis:

 

 

 

 

 

KOTFE anyone?

 

I mean... changing a system like overleveling with Level-Synch, that has been in place for almost four years (longer, if you include Alpha/Beta), that sounds kind of a dramatic change to me. Not to the level of NGE, sure, but it's not some minor thing either.

 

Also of note all the upcoming KOTFE changes that, oddly enough seem very focused towards new players they hope to get, with a lot of the negative things only affecting current or past subscribers. Changes to crafting, achievements being pulled, the list goes on. With the clear assumption being new people in will outnumber old people quitting over negative changes, so alienating people "doesn't matter".

 

 

I just found it funny personally, no KOTFE =/= NGE but the wording used could easily be applied to this expansion and seem kind of similar.

 

So what you're saying here is that they are indeed overhauling the entirety of the combat system, despite nothing that we've been shown indicating that? "But level sync...." stay off lowbie planets, and you'll never even see it. What's ironic here is your last statement: "KotFE =/= NEG, except it does, lulz"...

[DogMeat]

Track record stands with me.

SoR = 1 week of play.

KotFE = ? not long at this point.

I hope it takes a while....

 

No group content, removal of NiM, why?

Does it cost anything to leave nightmare mode up and running?

They add no group content and take away group content...hmmm

This is not a good sign to me.

This game is an MMO, not a SP game and to not add, yet take away is well....heading to SP/Solo mode.

[Jerqa]

People will see and hear what they want to see and hear...

 

I don't think this is even close in comparison to the NGE that Galaxies went through. I like pretty much everything that I have heard is changing with 4.0, no complaints from me. Maybe that will change once it is live, we'll see.

[heythereqt]

Honestly that was a solid and legitimate answer to the question. The changes coming in KOTFE do not even come close to figuratively representing the changes that the NGE brought to SWG, not even a little bit. The only thing the two have in common is the fact that they are both Star Wars games.

[stockmks]

Wow, for Bioware's most loyal playerbase, so many of you subscribers 1) sound very entitled to get what you want 2) hate the game with a passion.

 

I'm a preferred player and swtor in my eyes is taking the next step into awesome. But then again i haven't payed hundreds of dollars each year for the last 4 years, receive not much and so developed a sense of entitlement as compensation for actual content. If you actually get stuff for your money.. you really dont act this way.

 

Well to the op quotes.. another possibility is.. swtor now has no difficulties in getting people to try the game, and theres no problems with the rotations. Its getting players to pay that's the problem.. and the intimidation tactic that many subscribers fall for just doesnt cut it anymore with other AAA mmo's also running without a sub.

 

That makes complete sense.. for invested players, spook them with a long bullet point list of embarassingly pedantic restrictions to make sure they don't even want to try. For new players, buff the value for the sub and not release new content over many months (wow's old trick), ease off on the restrictions (or at least let them unlock most of them).

 

Hey, so when you loyal subs hit that critically low threshold (they dont want your $20 now even), that means preferred will get completely unlocked.. sorry what am i saying.. be mad. Yes. Entitled ftw, you guys deserve everything you ask for!!

Edited October 9, 2015 by stockmks

[Transairion]

So what you're saying here is that they are indeed overhauling the entirety of the combat system, despite nothing that we've been shown indicating that? "But level sync...." stay off lowbie planets, and you'll never even see it. What's ironic here is your last statement: "KotFE =/= NEG, except it does, lulz"...

 

No, but I am saying they are including features that are pissing off a lot of people and removing stuff from their older loyal subs in order to make it better for new players. And a lot of new features don't benefit older players at all.

 

Which is something he addressed as NGE "doing wrong", so it makes it kinda of weird for them to do something similar on a smaller scale? I didn't see anything there that actually reassured me any, just an epic question dodge with "we're not changing a lot", though for me a lot is changing.

 

"KOTFE =/= NGE, though they're making similar mistakes are just listing those mistakes, so *** BW?" is my point lol

 

 

Given I spend more time on lowbie planets than high planets when I've maxed out content (which happens eventually), I can't just stick my fingers in my ears and pretend level synch changes nothing. It's gonna be a pretty dramatic change to my gameplay, whether it affects you any or not.

 

 

 

 

'm a preferred player and swtor in my eyes is taking the next step into awesome.

 

1) Preffered players can't post on the forums, meaning you have an active sub as of right now

 

2) Preffered players can't do anything KOTFE related since it's subs only

 

 

So I'm bamboozooled by what you even mean.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Transairion

[Bugattiboy]

I'm a preferred player

The very existence of your post proves you're lying because only subscribers can post on the forums... oops.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Bugattiboy

[EnkiduNineEight]

It should be noted....again....that they've anticipated the aforementioned concerns.

 

They've alluded to an Alliance system where we have to earn new companions with daily and weekly quests. So, if you want to earn all the companions that you want, you're going to have to stick around and grind them out.

 

Of course, if you don't care about grinding dailies for new stuff and doing stuff every week to get new stuff then sure. You could sub for one month and then quit, but honestly, it seems silly to me that there are people out there that would conceivably want to sub for the story but not stay stubbed to get more of the story through the Alliance system.

 

But, who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and there's people out there like that. People are weird.

 

Except that the 'new companions' are actually all the same companion, with a different model. They all have an identical skill set based on which weapon they are currently using. They all either tank, or they dps, or they heal. Many will have no 'personality' what so ever.

 

There are already a large group of players who unsub every time they complete the current 'content' and then resub for new content. They are not irrational for doing so. They may be able to argue that people like me who remain subbed are the ones being irrational because I'm spending 12$ a month for something I already received and experienced. (I may not agree, but the argument can be made).

[EnkiduNineEight]

I think comparing things to NGE and trying to go down a list and say here's all the bad things NGE did that ruined the game for me relies too much on your anecdotal experience. YOU were bothered by the changes (As a beta tester for SW:G I found it horrible in is initial system and the method for becoming a Jedi incredibly stupid... but some people liked the moisture farmer simulator) so you assign to them a greater deal of scope than perhaps they may have had. Just as there are people bothered with the few changes they have knowledge of for KotFE and they may assign these more importance than you do.

 

What remains is that many of the games systems are changing in a significant way and it is in a manner that many people are not pleased about. Whether it is level sync, crafting changes, cartel market changes, class changes, BioWares continued excuse that its too hard to balance a game so we're just going to take your earned abilities away from you and give them back at a later level because we raised the level cap nonsense.. etc. Some people are upset about giving a 'brand new 60' free access to crafting skills at 500 putting them on the EXACT same equal footing as someone who has been playing the game for four years and raised their skills to 500 and RE'd many many schematics to have them all stripped away.

 

So, you can make your anecdotal accounting of how this is or is not just like NGE. The root of the issue is the perception of your players. Just because someones perception is different than yours does not invalidate their experience nor their comparison to NGE.

 

I for one thought the NGE was a long time overdue because SW:G was a horrible clunker of a game. It was designed by the core of the old EQ people who were stuck using a Gen 1.5 mentality in their approach to an MMO.

 

This does not mean that because I _liked_ the NGE that your opinion that NGE ruined the game is invalidated. It ruined the game for you. Many of these coming changes are significant enough that they will 'ruin' the game for these other people for may legitimate reasons.

 

In both cases, you're making the classic mistake of thinking that a vocal forum opinion is the majority.

[Tolunart]

Oh, I'm not trying to saying KOTFE = NGE or anything.

 

Just found it plenty ironic (is that the word?) there was such a response given. I read it and basically thought: "Hey, NGE did this, this and this and that's why it went bad.... we'd never do that! But we actually kind of are...."

 

What kind of answer were you expecting? "The bean counters have decided that we've squeezed about as much money as we can from current players so we're redesigning the game to appeal to a different market and predict that incoming players will spend more than the old players who leave, keeping the game profitable so we can keep our jobs for another year or two."

 

Telling the current players that the company doesn't care whether you stay or leave is a good way to lose one's job, whether or not it is true.