Poll: who likes level sync and who doesn't

[Max_Killjoy]

Hypothetically speaking, let's say they continue to follow GW2 and start adding planetary events that give rewards for participating in them? How would you feel in that case?

 

Still not interested.

[Faelandaea]

For you, maybe.

 

Please don't presume to tell other people what's going to be fun for them, if that's what you were doing.

 

That's why I didn't say "For everyone"

 

There's definitely room for improvement and tweaks, but I am honestly looking forward to a different pace. I was actually starting to burn out on SWTOR again.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Faelandaea

[TravelersWay]

Lot of positives, players play together. Players form Raid-groups for Worldbosses.

 

Old Planets head back to life. Level Sync is a good choice made from Bioware

 

It is a good choice with lots of positives. Making it optional doesn't change that.

 

A couple of observations though:

Players who are inclined to naturally group up, will always be inclined to do so. Level syncing doesn't change that.

Players who prefer to play solo will always be inclined to play solo. Level syncing also doesn't change that.

 

If players cannot get enough interest to form groups to take down WBs now - when it is announced in general and global chat that a boss is up (which according to some people is an extremely rare event), then how is level syncing going to change that? If they are not interested now, why would they be interested later?

Oh, and what about those times when there aren't enough people for a full raid group on a boss, but the group has a couple of max characters, thus enabling them to still fight the boss with a reasonable chance of victory? Seems to me that that option is removed with level sync.

 

How are old planets brought back to life? If the only content one can do on them is the repeatable heroics, then only that content will be brought back to life for that one moment - not the whole planet.

[Faelandaea]

Well I am completely against optional as a "toggle on/off" for players in main instances. The only compromise I;d consider worth even thinking about is if they made a separate instance that is not sync'd for those that want to go there.

[TravelersWay]

If you don't see that level synch. is a feature that isn't supposed to be added on its own, but to be expanded on as a solid groundwork, then I don't know what to tell you. Bioware has said time and time again that they want to ensure that all the content they make will always be valuable to do from this point on. I have no reason to doubt that this is not the intention behind level synch aswell.

Valuable is a subjective concept. In BioWare's terms, they want to make sure that players are properly rewarded for completing content, regardless of how overleveled they are for that content. That's all well and good. An optional system lets the players choose whether they want to be rewarded or not. Those who want those better rewards can be downleveled. Those who don't care can play "normally" for those base vanilla rewards that the content has always handed out.

 

The intention of level syncing is to offset the increased leveling pace created by the "12x XP-lite" that they are implementing in the game. Only this time without the option of using the WAM to turn off the increased XP rewards. What BW has overlooked by doing this is not so much that people didn't want to outpace the level of the content they were doing, but that they wanted to have that choice placed in their own hands - just like being able to choose different difficultly levels in a game: Easy, Normal, Hard, Nightmare, etc. What the increased pace and the level syncing does is remove all but one of those options. For some people that's akin to removing the already limited options in the character creation screen and just having one set template for each of the main classes.

 

 

Group republic prepares to face the world boss of Belsavis with level synch for conquest points. Suddenly Imperial Assassin on level 65 without synch decides to drop in and aggro the boss, effectively killing it. He ruined the experience for sixteen people because they decided to use a feature they like.

 

Your solution? Make world boss areas a mandatory level synch? What if someone pulls it further away? What if one tank would tank it inside the area and a sniper just stands barely outside and shoots at level 65? Most suggestions are never thought through entirely and would take months to actually fix.

I could be wrong, but I believe that most WBs cannot be pulled out of their designated Heroic zones. The Coruscant boss has one of the smallest zones and any attempt to pull him out of it, resets him back to where he was. So this ends up being a non-issue. It seems to me most suggestions are thought through enough to solve any of the common complaints, it's just that people seem not to want to hear them.

 

 

Again: What Final Fantasy 14 does is completely irrelevant to this forum. Does Final Fantasy 14 have a conquest system that relies on world bosses to farm large amounts of CP? Does it have an open world PvP system? As far as I know PvP is all but dead in that game. I'm not saying that nobody can pull off an optional level synch system. Just SW:TOR can't.

 

I better not risk all the stress and bugfixing involved with an optional system when fixing easy bugs takes months. That could lead to the worst screw up in history for nothing at all.

While what other games do may be irrelevant to you, it seems they are very relevant to BioWare as they have pulled ideas from other games for a long time now. In fact, it seems pretty relevant to the entire industry as games are constantly "borrowing" ideas and features from one another.

 

Like I just mentioned above, there have been suggestions made for many of the perceived issues people have tried to come up with. SWTOR can make an option level syncing system, just like any other game can. They just have taken the path of least resistance in terms of development up to this point.

 

World Bosses? As mentioned, problems solved.

PvP? Again, several solutions have been presented. They have just been ignored by those in favor of mandatory sync.

 

Bugs? Well, if the fear of bugs is to be a reason not to implement a feature, then nothing would, or should, ever be implemented in a game. Optional or not, there will always be bugs and problems with the system. Hell, how long have conquests been active and they are now encountering bugs with the rewards system - big enough to a point where the whole damn feature is going to be useless for the first month the expansion is out. Perhaps they should just to away with the entire conquest system if it's going to be that difficult to fix it.

[TravelersWay]

Well I am completely against optional as a "toggle on/off" for players in main instances. The only compromise I;d consider worth even thinking about is if they made a separate instance that is not sync'd for those that want to go there.

 

And what are your reasons for wanting it mandatory, exactly?

[Faelandaea]

And what are your reasons for wanting it mandatory, exactly?

 

Actually I have many. But instead of doing what EVERY thread has been doing and have list after list after list after list after long bloody list of reasons why we may or may not want something in the game, I propose we ALL band together and see if we can nudge BW to do the one compromise that would make both camps happy - mandatory level sync except for one special instanced map of the planet which is not under a sync system at all.

 

The people FOR mandatory sync are for it mainly for reasons concerning griefing (and by griefing i do NOT mean just PvP, but PvE griefing as well). And the people AGAINST the sync are mainly just wanting to god-mode LOL-STOMP all over random mobs. A separate instance for them and the sync for the main instances would make both sides happy.

 

Thank Max for that idea. He mentioned it in another thread.

[TheDT-Sniper]

I find level sync to be horrible and out of place. If some players want it and some don't welp make it optional because to me level sync is just horrible.

[UncleofMany]

definitely done with this game if it's mandatory. I do NOT pvp, I do NOT conquest, I am a largely solo pve only player. And to kind of turn this thread into a broken record, there is NO justification for my max level character to fear ANYTHING on any planet 10 levels or lower than they are. it is inexcusable I already played through all of those d****d planets to the point that no standard mission or enemy is a threat to my welfare. and I will NOT play a game that forces my toon to suddenly lose functional levels to the point of being a near useless b**** on planets I've already wiped the floor with. I have absolutely no problems with an optional mentoring system. but a forced, illogical, multi-level smack down just because I landed my lvl 60 anything on Quesh makes the game garbage in my opinion. And I don't run a constant subscription but when I play I pay, and if there is no choice other than forced, "suck it up" level synch they ARE going to lose a lot of their paying player base.

[well]

Okay, okay, now THAT I can DEFINITELY agree with LOL

 

Actually, is it me or has this expansion successfully divided the community into a tense civil war?

 

Well if not it is close. I not against it I just believe there should be a option for those that prefer the other way. They did it for XP. To me the more players have options the better. It is about keeping players in the game. That is the bottom line. GW1 had normal and Hard mode. It was your choice. Why can't they do something like that. Just do it with Level Sync.

[Squeets]

I dislike it for flashpoints. I will reserve judgment for other things.

 

I am pretty much a solo player, I rarely group up. So it already takes the whole aspect of soloing old content out of the pictures since all of the old content will now be "new." As long as the "new" heroics are are soloable then I will manage.

 

If they aren't... Well then I am just going to quit playing the game.

[DarkJediMage]

if it is forced, no. tbh- i have no fate in bioware of implementing a bugless lvl syncing. if it is optional, yes. at least, we would have a fail safe feature.

tbh - if lvl syncing is optional or not, it will not solved the grouping especially heroic pugs. you have the time vs worth doing argument. most of time, not worth doing wins. unless, they have great rewards for high lvl players syncing down, they will not do it.

 

if it is optional, everyone is happy, no one has to quit, and bioware will not lose money.

Edited October 9, 2015 by DarkJediMage

[Jadescythe]

if it is forced, no. tbh- i have no fate in bioware of implementing a bugless lvl syncing. if it is optional, yes. at least, we would have a fail safe feature.

tbh - if lvl syncing is optional or not, it will not solved the grouping especially heroic pugs. you have the time vs worth doing argument. most of time, not worth doing wins. unless, they have great rewards for high lvl players syncing down, they will not do it.

 

if it is optional, everyone is happy, no one has to quit, and bioware will not lose money.

 

They are both changing all Heroics to be 2+ players and adjusting rewards to be better and match your actual level. That is all explained. Heroics will also transition into being weekly due to the increased rewards.

[DarkJediMage]

They are both changing all Heroics to be 2+ players and adjusting rewards to be better and match your actual level. That is all explained. Heroics will also transition into being weekly due to the increased rewards.

 

did they explain about the high lvl zones in low lvl planets like seeds of dread, bonus series zones, open world pvp zones, traveling to class story missions in an heroic area, getting datacrons in an heroic area? what about champion npc killing achievements that no one wants to group for?

[Quraswren]

That poll is asking if players would like level scaling in WoW and a majority said optionally. Do we really need to go into all of the differences between WoW and SWTOR and why this poll is irrelevant on these forums?

You might as well because SWTOR is called a clone of wow for a reason. The entire poll was based off this happen in SWTOR but asked for in wow. Given SWTOR is considred a nothing more than a copy of wow. The information is worth reviewing on what gamers want.

First off, WoW has truly significant reasons to go back into early continents and complete content there.

And nothing more significant than farming. Kinda like what we do here in SWTOR. They also go back for transmogrification. Kinda like we have in SWTOR for appearance tabs. All the more reasont o not put in a forced down leveling. The 2 games are so similar having it optional isn't game breaking. Having it forced makes a decent game mechanic not worth supporting.

Second, WoW has entirely phased zones to make level sync unneeded most of the time. You can have level 100's and level 50's in the same exact location on the map in WoW and see entirely different content. This is impossible in SWTOR due to the engine capabilities (or lack thereof), thus making Level Sync mandatory a legitimate alternative.

Then put gamers who choose level sync in a ew instance and those that do not want it in another. There you have SWTOR phasing and an optional down leveling where gamers get to retain how they playing SWTOR for the past 4 years.

Third, here is a significant community of players that go and solo content for achievements and props. SWTOR does not even allow you to enter into Operations or Flashpoint's by yourself, they even made a dumbed down solo version of Flashpoint's (and a revan operation style fight) for people to feel like they're accomplishing something.

On the note of OPS and FP's I've went in many of them solo but had someone else in the group. An easy work around for your so called "problem". Plus all the other easily soloable achievements in the rest of the world that grouping has nothing to do with them as very few even need a group. Grouped r solo, SW or WOW, there are plently of achievement collectors and if they want it they will go after it. Forcd down leveling doesn't change that for either game.

 

I can keep going into the differences and why optional level sync in WoW is smart, whereas SWTOR needs mandatory level sync, but I'm pretty sure the loudest minority won't listen to solid facts anyway.

You might as well keep going because they ones you used were pitiful.

This should have been optional and not released till it was. It's a decent game play feature but not one needed all across the board, all the time. SWTOR no more needed mandatory level sync any more than it needed them to remove achievements gamers have completed. Which is to say it didn't need that to happen at all.

 

there is a reason why so many want optional. It's because it give the bulk of gamers what they love. More optional to play. Play like you have for years or take on a new game play feature with new rewards. Having it forced dilutes a decent feature.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Quraswren

[Jadescythe]

did they explain about the high lvl zones in low lvl planets like seeds of dread, bonus series zones, open world pvp zones, traveling to class story missions in an heroic area, getting datacrons in an heroic area? what about champion npc killing achievements that no one wants to group for?

 

Did you mention any of those things? No, I simply responded to your post as nothing in it wasn't already explained.

[DarkJediMage]

Did you mention any of those things? No, I simply responded to your post as nothing in it wasn't already explained.

 

thanks. they really to address these things. if they get it wrong, it could really mess up the game. I bet they wlll use instances

[Karkais]

I'm all for it. One of the best decisions the devs have ever made. And it absolutely must be mandatory. This is for several reasons. Most of them have already been talked about, but I'll list them:

 

One more step in abating credit farming and slowing inflation.

Granted. Although dealing with credit farming shouldn't affect anything else.

 

Yes the WBs are a thing. People don't do them now because they're mostly meaningless. I suspect they plan to change this.

Conjecture.

 

It's hard to say what it will do for PvP. I think, overall, it will be positive, but the one wild card is expertise. But that's a whole issue of its own.

I don't know what pvp has got to do with level sync. People don't do open world pvp at all.

 

Also, griefing isn't just a PvP issue. There are plenty of ways high level characters can grief lower level players without ever being flagged.

And how does being same level stop griefing?

 

It will help balance Conquest and make it work closer to what was intended.

Again I fail to see the relevance of this. Conquest is just another grind, and its going to be disabled at kotfe launch anyway. Personally I have not done one second of conquest goals to this date.

 

Makes sense from a story/lore point. Yes you're 65 uber Sith outlander could go back and slaughter k'lor'slug eggs. But it's also six years later and Korriban got a makeover, but I guess Cormun is still there begging for help? The sync is just a pseudo time regression. It works best to this effect when everyone uses it.

One could argue that no level sync would also work from a lore standpoint. It makes total sense from lore standing point to have all those millions of static mobs littered across all the zones, standing still and waiting for player to come to them from lore standpoint (/sarcasm). I hate those speedbumps like nothing else. There are certain planets that are worse than others in this respect. The main reason I am against level sync is because this game is annoying enough without having to deal with random mobs every ten meters, and there are reasons for me to go back to earlier planets such as events, collecting HK parts, datacrons, etc.

 

[*]The edition of temp bars suggest to me they plan on adding more regular events. These will be more fun for everyone if levels are all equal. Zone events in other games are always a lot of fun until a high level comes along and spoils it for everyone. And, yes, it happens more than you'd think.

Conjecture. I haven't yet seen any other zone-wide event that couldnt just spawn level-appropriate mobs as needed apart from rakghoul event, and that event should never come back anyway.

 

[*]Along those same lines, I bet they'll start adding level-scaled dailies to all the planets. One easy solution would be to make four or five of the new exploration quests on each planet repeatable. Then add a daily cap. (Say 15 per char.) This would not only give people a lot more verity, but it would help spread the pop.

Granted.

 

[*]It promotes a more consistent difficulty curb throughout the course of the game. SWTOR is in a truly unique situation where it has storylines akin to those of single player RPG, but has to do so in a MMO environment. All of their single player games use mechanics to help control the level curb and prohibiting players from powering through games: regulate exp gains, scale pack level, size, difficulty, that sort of thing. But none of those work in a MMO environment. This was their [best] answer, even if only helps a little.

The 'more consistent difficulty curb' is an issue in itself, since it takes away the feeling of progression. If you feel that you haven't gotten any stronger, why are you leveling up?

 

There are those who say they like to do story several levels above. But, in every form of the game, the story continues at cap. And, with such a small cap increase, I suspect much of the TFE chapters will be 65. What will those players do then? What have they done. I suppose they can supplement out-leveling with out-gearing. But in most phases of game the quickest/easiest way to get entry gear was doing the cap content.

Story missions could just spawn level-approriate mobs according to the player, without hindering anyone else.

 

[*]I have no doubt that a more balanced difficulty curb will make the population as a whole better. People argued against 12xp because it would promote poor play. But really, there's only so much a player can learn about his class/spec if he doesn't have the basics down. The amount of time he spends doing it is mostly irrelevant. However, since they now can't power their way through the base game, they'll be forced to learn those basics.

See above.

 

[*]Having a consistent difficulty curb also balances quest rewards with their relative difficulty. I think they could take it further in this area. I was surprised to learn they didn't make the exploration quests rewards level-appropriate. Even if they don't make them repeatable as I suggested above, they should at least make the rewards scale.

Same as above

[Teladis]

So it seems more people don't care or like it than hate. I kinda figure that..but like I said it is a we will see. i doubt we lose that many players cause of it.

[DarkJediMage]

So it seems more people don't care or like it than hate. I kinda figure that..but like I said it is a we will see. i doubt we lose that many players cause of it.

if the soloists or god players are the majority, yes, the game will lose many players. if not, you are right. we will see if bioware 'bright idea' pays off or loses the playerbase.

Edited October 9, 2015 by DarkJediMage

[AkilZodiac]

Don't like it.

[Transcendent]

This Sync thing IS going to lose BW some players. There's no denying that. On the other end of the spectrum, those players might be replaced by new players who like such a system.

 

How long for though, will they just come in, play the story, then off to the next game? Absolutely agree though that level sync will lose BioWare some of their longer term paying customers, because I'm not paying to be downgraded. It's self defeating to have a level system, for it to be side stepped in this manner (in my opinion obviously).

 

Progression, it's the only part of SWTOR that keeps me playing. That's more of the RPG gamer in me, and I can get that elsewhere (and will). The more information we've had officially on KotFE, the less interest I'm having in continuing playing it, even the story isn't going to make up for some of the changes coming in 4.0.

 

That's just my opinion though, others probably think differently, and I'm fine with that. You play for fun, if you enjoy it, you'll stay, if not, you'll leave.

[dscount]

Well I am completely against optional as a "toggle on/off" for players in main instances. The only compromise I;d consider worth even thinking about is if they made a separate instance that is not sync'd for those that want to go there.

 

I don't care how they do it, but I'd like to see an optional of ANY fashion. No rewards for using that option, but at least an option.

 

I quit GW2 because of level-sync and have no interest in dealing with that crap in this game. I want to visit planets to get my stuff and get off that planet. Collect my materials for crafting without agro every flippin mob. Yes an extra 10-20 seconds PER MOB is very annoying and I don't find that "FUN" as some think it will be. NO I won't be grouping up to kill some world boss or even H2 content. (Which gives you CRAP rewards anyways). A single operation and I'll have more loot than an H2 and better gear to boot.

 

I "THINK" BW is going to screw this up!! How long did it take them to fix PVP Bolster? How many posts in forums are asking "What about boss XYZ, etc". It's clear from some of the NYCC these are pretty solid assumptions that BW doesn't have this level-sync fleshed out and us players are going to be stuck playing a BORKED up game.

[Max_Killjoy]

So it seems more people don't care or like it than hate.

 

Sometimes I wonder which forums you're actually reading... because it can't be these forums.

[Deyjarl]

I think, I'm not sure, but I think that there have been a lot of other reasons given for why people are opposed to this being mandatory.

 

And all those arguments amount to pretty much the same thing, and pale in comparison to the benefits, even when added up.

 

Most amount to 'Oh no I fear change waaaa' if you look at what the person is saying.