Why Level Sync needs to be Mandatory!

[g_land]

For the people talking about how it will make doing missions impossible for them because they can no longer overlevel, you should go here: http://www.dulfy.net Select Swtor and look at the guides. I am not expecting everyone to master their rotation, but if you can get even a very basic idea of how to play your class you will have no issues at all with missions.

 

For example, you should probably use more than 1 attack over the course of a fight. Another example, don't go afk during a fight. Yet another example, equip a weapon if you haven't already. And final example, interrupt. With those four tips, you should be able to take on anything thrown at you, downscaled or not.

 

Seriously people, it's not hard.

 

Oh look, a person who can't conceive the notion that tedious =/= difficult. Why is it so hard for people to look beyond their personal understanding to even remotely review and process another person's statements.

 

Level sync should be optional because it then allows other to enjoy what they want to do in the way they want to.

 

Lastly, as I previously stated, if you think mandatory level sync will prevent the small part of the population that are *****holes from griefing, it won't, they will just adjust and still be griefing.

[pegasussgc]

For the people talking about how it will make doing missions impossible for them because they can no longer overlevel.

 

For those who didn't read before responding. I wasn't addressing farming or the tedium of killing mobs. Simply the ones stated in the quote above.

[Kingsbount]

For those who didn't read before responding. I wasn't addressing farming or the tedium of killing mobs. Simply the ones stated in the quote above.

 

You are seriously arguing that downleveling will make game better and refuse to see the consequences for farmers and crafters?

Wow...

Just... Wow...

[Beyorn]

It should be optional.

 

I’m still unsure why they are doing this. From an RP standpoint I can’t stand it. If this is truly a problem with high level peeps going back and exploiting content can’t they do something else?

 

Every time I got to Tython I will be leveled down to that plants level range. I won’t he a master jedi anymore.

 

I just don’t understand the need for this change Bioware ;/.

[Bakakiba]

It should be optional.

 

I’m still unsure why they are doing this. From an RP standpoint I can’t stand it. If this is truly a problem with high level peeps going back and exploiting content can’t they do something else?

 

Every time I got to Tython I will be leveled down to that plants level range. I won’t he a master jedi anymore.

 

I just don’t understand the need for this change Bioware ;/.

 

Can't you, you know, RP it?

[pegasussgc]

You are seriously arguing that downleveling will make game better and refuse to see the consequences for farmers and crafters?

Wow...

Just... Wow...

 

I never said I don't see the consequences for farmers and crafters, I simply wasn't responding to them in my original post. I don't know why you keep bringing it up, I never said anything about them or how level sync affects them.

[Beyorn]

Why not just add another version of a low level zone so people higher than the level of the zone go into their own version. This would end ganking and would force all the high level peeps into one zone. If this is truly because of pvp there are other ways to handle this. A criminal system comes to mind.

[Beyorn]

Can't you, you know, RP it?

 

This is just silly. This is totally alien (so to speak) to the world of SW.

 

Also your level could be controlled by the level of the group you join as well. There are many different ways this could be fixed. Seems they picked the lazy way. Take a note from City of Heroes BW!

[Kingsbount]

I never said I don't see the consequences for farmers and crafters, I simply wasn't responding to them in my original post. I don't know why you keep bringing it up, I never said anything about them or how level sync affects them.

 

Becouse it will affect other people. And it will be SO FAR from good experience.

Of course it will be much more simple to avoid unpleasant things that downscaling will bring.

This is exactly what you are doing.

You just ignoring them and trying to force people think - Oh!!! New downscaling is a God blessing for the game!!!

 

But allow me to dispel your illusions - there WILL be problems. Indeed, some people will be pleased... For some time.

And then awakening will come. And it will be very rude.

[Bakakiba]

Becouse it will affect other people. And it will be SO FAR from good experience.

Of course it will be much more simple to avoid unpleasant things that downscaling will bring.

This is exactly what you are doing.

You just ignoring them and trying to force people think - Oh!!! New downscaling is a God blessing for the game!!!

 

But allow me to dispel your illusions - there WILL be problems. Indeed, some people will be pleased... For some time.

And then awakening will come. And it will be very rude.

 

Can I ask you to predict this week's lotto numbers?

[Juromaro]

It should be optional.

 

I’m still unsure why they are doing this. From an RP standpoint I can’t stand it. If this is truly a problem with high level peeps going back and exploiting content can’t they do something else?

 

Every time I got to Tython I will be leveled down to that plants level range. I won’t he a master jedi anymore.

 

I just don’t understand the need for this change Bioware ;/.

 

 

 

Anakin Skywalker, by all accounts just a Jedi Knight, laid waste to the Jedi Temple, killing masters and padawns alike. Darth Vader, by all accounts a Master of the Darkside, beat down by a jedi in training. Emperor Palpatine, beat down by a walking smoked ham. Entire droid army foiled by Jar Jar Binks.....just sayin

 

Level doesn't make a Master Jedi a Master Jedi. From an RP standpoint it doesn't matter what level you are, you don't go to someone in a cantina or take your apprentice into the wilds and say "Oh you're only level 10, sorry you can't be my apprentice". I mean it's not like you RP with people's names hovering over their characters do you?

 

If you're going to try and pull the RP card out, then I'll re-post what a few others have said: You can smash through Masters and Darths like butter on Alderaan, but struggle against Darths and Masters on Oricon? Level and abilities mean jack crap nothing when it comes to RP, heck I have a level 60 Sith who is still an apprentice in her story, and in pvp she constantly breaks 1 mil damage and solo's champions at her level. Doesn't make her a Darth or even a Lord yet.

 

 

The single only reason people don't want a mandatory downsync is this and only this: Level makes you feel powerful, downgrading a level you feel weaker, doesn't matter if you can faceroll content or not, you feel weaker. People like to stand on the steps of Korriban or Tython to show others "Hey I worked my way to level 60, I've got 60k health and the gear to lay waste to all I see before me". They can't do that if they are level 15, even though they can still lay waste to all they see before them.....they still feel weaker.

[Quraswren]

Can I ask you to predict this week's lotto numbers?

 

He probably already did but why would he want to split the bounty.

[Max_Killjoy]

For the people talking about how it will make doing missions impossible for them because they can no longer overlevel, you should go here: http://www.dulfy.net Select Swtor and look at the guides. I am not expecting everyone to master their rotation, but if you can get even a very basic idea of how to play your class you will have no issues at all with missions.

 

For example, you should probably use more than 1 attack over the course of a fight. Another example, don't go afk during a fight. Yet another example, equip a weapon if you haven't already. And final example, interrupt. With those four tips, you should be able to take on anything thrown at you, downscaled or not.

 

Seriously people, it's not hard.

 

Nope, not hard at all -- I totally agree.

 

The assumption, whether an honest mistake on the part of some people, or in a dishonest and deliberate fashion by the trolls, forum-griefers, and sycophantic attack dogs, is that a player who doesn't want it "hard" must be "bad at the game".

 

Despite what has and what I'm sure will continue to be posted by those sorts, as with many who opposed mandatory level sync, I do have my rotations close enough to mastered -- far beyond video game basics like "interrupt" and "equip a weapon".

 

When I get into a fight with a group of mobs, I challenge myself to do things like keep them all knocked down, stunned, or pushed back so that they're not attack the PC, kill them all before my SithSorc's static barrier drops, interrupt or avoid all big attacks or stuns from elite mobs, etc.

 

This is not, and has never been, about skill or "challenge" or "it's too hard".

 

It is, however, very much about tedium and slogginess and nuisance when one goes back to those planets to do things like Bounty Week, HK part searches, GSI missions, datacron hunts, material gathering, class missions here and there, map exploration, achievement completion, roleplaying, etc, etc, etc...

 

 

Of course, the irony is, we're being told "that stuff won't be hard at all, no challenge, look at that clip" -- usually by the same people who keep saying things like "Oh, this will make all that old content a challenge, you just don't want any challenge"...

 

 

For those who didn't read before responding. I wasn't addressing farming or the tedium of killing mobs. Simply the ones stated in the quote above.

 

I did read it, but I thought those things were relevant to making it clear why people go back to those worlds, and why they'd be opposed to forced down-syncing for reasons other than the "it's too hard" canard that some have pushed.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Quraswren]

Anakin Skywalker, by all accounts just a Jedi Knight, laid waste to the Jedi Temple, killing masters and padawns alike. Darth Vader, by all accounts a Master of the Darkside, beat down by a jedi in training. Emperor Palpatine, beat down by a walking smoked ham. Entire droid army foiled by Jar Jar Binks.....just sayin

 

The best ones gone for the war. anakin was really a master long before the temple if not more and already talked about as one of the most powerful. Dark side fueled, the ones left at the temple had little hope to win.

Darth Vader, beat down but a full Jedi whose training was complete and done so apparently by Yoda himself. Not a bad teacher. Emperior did all he could to not get thrown to his death but when the guy you kind trust turns on you. Somethings the surprize isn't recoverable. And well as for Jar Jar, every fool has his day.

 

Level doesn't make a Master Jedi a Master Jedi. From an RP standpoint it doesn't matter what level you are, you don't go to someone in a cantina or take your apprentice into the wilds and say "Oh you're only level 10, sorry you can't be my apprentice". I mean it's not like you RP with people's names hovering over their characters do you?

 

If you're going to try and pull the RP card out, then I'll re-post what a few others have said: You can smash through Masters and Darths like butter on Alderaan, but struggle against Darths and Masters on Oricon? Level and abilities mean jack crap nothing when it comes to RP, heck I have a level 60 Sith who is still an apprentice in her story, and in pvp she constantly breaks 1 mil damage and solo's champions at her level. Doesn't make her a Darth or even a Lord yet.

 

The single only reason people don't want a mandatory downsync is this and only this: Level makes you feel powerful, downgrading a level you feel weaker, doesn't matter if you can faceroll content or not, you feel weaker. People like to stand on the steps of Korriban or Tython to show others "Hey I worked my way to level 60, I've got 60k health and the gear to lay waste to all I see before me". They can't do that if they are level 15, even though they can still lay waste to all they see before them.....they still feel weaker.

 

But by her experience and power she is a Darth or Lord.

BUT The bulk of all you said was people don't like down leveling being forced. Thats reason enough alone to make it optional. You also had in there how easy it will be for gamers to still roll through content. If that stays true, then we have just had a mandoary change where everyone is forced to be down leveled, which we know gamers don't care for, that does nothing but put them back where they started from and have been enjoying for quite a long time now.

 

Thats a rather worthless reason to change and change just for the sake of saying, "we changed" is very unwise.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Quraswren

[Vashadan]

IMO Level Sync is a great idea for ppl who are starting out in the game. For them it will become mandatory as they will never or barely know what it was like to feel overpowered when going back to lower lvl planets and it will provide at least the feeling of a challenge as we had it when this game was 1st released. It will be a serious pain in the *** for farmers/crafters, and if ppl think Level Sync will encourage ppl to group up...then I do not really get why Bioware decided to `fix` group experience, not to mention that most PvPers know the issues in lowbie bracket. A `true` lvl 25 will have serious problems facing a fake 65/25, just because of the talents available to the second...I can almost taste the tears on PvP servers.

To come back to the OP part, I seriously do not believe having more talents whilst being downscaled in lvl will make the OP feeling true, and I do not think we will ever feel it again.

Just for my sanity, please do not start the elitist/superior talk on veterans, any1 who gets to the current endgame character lvl should have a visible way to display his/her power except for spamming talents, be it current hitpoints or walking over enemies others have to struggle with. Maybe we will still be able to burn through reds, but I did enjoy coming back as a Darth to Korriban and being visibly stronger than the new players who were starting out...guess I would still remain a Darth compared to an Acolyte but us having the same hitpoints? Not sure, maybe it is just me but I do find this silly.

It is still a question of time spent ingame to see how Level Sync will play out once KotFE is released but to be blunt, or just to put my finger in every1s eye... what happend to the illusion of it being or not being another recycling move by Bioware? FPs/OPs recycled, that is for sure so I am not suprised seeing Level Sync being introduced. To me Level Sync will just make ppl spend more time `getting things done` than it takes them now, a perfect example of recycling. Again, I speak of ppl who have been through the old content, making it appear more challenging will not make ppl go back...or at least I do not believe that most wiil bother with it.

On another note, knowing how Bioware insisted on Bolster in PvP and how long it took them to get it right I shudder what might happen if Level Sync is introduced with as many flaws as Bolster had. Once Level Sync goes live I would not be suprised if ppl would figure out exploits or simply failures in the system, and it would take a huge ****up to get rid off Level Sync. Even then I firmly believe Bioware would stick with it and have their customers endure till they get it right....

 

So to conclude, good move for new players, a dagger up your strap for old veterans...w8 it out and see for yourself.

Too early to tell and if it sucks it is not the end of the world.....I have been in and out of this game more times than I have seen ppl running naked in Huttball.

[-staticmatic-]

Wow, I even explained it right there in the post you're replying to, and you still can't be bothered to actually address the actual position actually being presented. Actually.

 

95% of us in the "opposition" aren't asking for level-syncing to be removed -- we're asking for it to be optional.

 

We tried giving our long lists of detailed reasons why, and yet 99% of the posts made by those in favor of it being mandatory either ignore the reasons in favor of half-witted trolling about "Hurrr, y u mad, no more faceroll grays lol?", or just blow them off as "invalid" without ever stopping to consider them.

 

And if our reasons for not wanting to partake in levelsyncing don't matter to you, why should any of your reasons in favor of levelsyncing matter to us?

 

The best solution remains, make it optional -- that way, we don't have to worry about how you play the game, and you don't have to worry about how we play the game.

 

Great points.

[Princess_Chibi]

http://i.imgur.com/5rCITcb.jpg

[DarkJediMage]

what about players have physical impairments like me who have cerebral palsy? 3.5 years ago, my coordination was faster in moving my toons. now, i still can fight and dodge aoes but getting there takes me longer. today's playerbase is not as patient and mature to understand my problem like 3.5 years, ago. NOW, i get ignored or shunned. so i solo most things. i group up to help with world boss fights and heroic 2s. they do not require traveling through a maze. RIFT had optional lvl syncing. no one had a problem with it. mandatory lvl syncing down will force me to cut my losses by not going back to lvl 1-50 content. there is no reason to go there except gathering crafting mats.

 

btw - i am far from being lazy. my legacy shows my epic history and i love farming things.

[ClaytonL]

i am also against it, but would not mind for it to be optional, for people that like to play the different way.

 

but what i can see in those threads: people that are against it, are all for an option, so that other people can choose to play the way the want...... , and the ones that are in favor of this change, don't give a damn about other players and their play styles and want it mandatory.

 

oh well, 3 more weeks and i will know, i will take a look at it, if i like it, ok.. if i don't like it, i cancel my sub and come back to the next, or one of the next patches to see if i like it again..

[well]

It doesn't need to be mandatory. It is a game. People like to play differently. All these talking points and attempts to belittle people because they want to have a option. It is getting silly. You don't pay my sub and I damn sure don't pay yours. How I play is my business same for you. I will be going thru Level Sync but it is my choice and I don't need others to validate my choice by being forced to do it.

[Lansotey]

Here's irrefutable reasons why level sync should be mandatory for Bioware.

 

There's a lot of player complaining that Level Sync introduced, and I'm shocked at how painfully obvious it is that many players are missing the point.

 

Not having Level Sync doesn't make Lore Sense

 

In the original Star Wars trilogy, Stormtroopers were the cannon fodder of the movies, in this game right now, the imperial soldiers are also the cannon fodder of this game. The logical lorebreaking standpoint is that the Snowtrooper enemies at level 40 on say Hoth as it stands on live, are SEVERAL MAGNITUDES weaker than the snowtrooper enemies on say, Ilum. This doesn't make any sense. There's no reason for a flesh raider to suddenly become more powerful when I fight him in the Tython and Korriban Flashpoints in comparison to the ones on Tython.

 

Therefore, Level Sync makes sense from a lore standpoint, a Sith Acolyte on Republic Taris will be just as strong as the equivalent on say, Alderaan. It makes no sense that I can totally barrel through say, a Jedi Master on Dromund Kass, but a Republic Soldier takes comparatively more effort to defeat on Corellia.

 

I get where you're coming from, but at the same time that is where the game portion comes into affect. By the same token one could say that it makes perfect sense that when you leave Tython you are a Padawan that is newly promoted to being a Knight, and that by the time you return you have honed your skills to a higher degree through necessity to being even sharper than they were before to prevent yourself from dying. Not to mention the idea that as a Jedi you're; going up against beings using weapons that your lightsaber would slice right through, scoring a direct hit to an enemy that would slice right through them, etc. The statement that having a mandatory level sync would enforce the realism of lore is moot when you take that into consideration...the stories behind the weapons are right, but the application of them is not always accurate.

 

The logic applied here would be more prevalent as applied to non-Jedi characters.

 

But doesn't this mean that when I go back to Tython, and I'm a lowly Padawan again?

 

Except... you're not? The ONLY thing scaling down appears to be Stats. You preserve your skills and any abilities you have attained. On Tython as a Jedi Knight and a lowly padawan, how many defensive cooldowns do you have? 1. Saber Ward. As a Vigilance Guardian going back to Tython at level 60, the Jedi Battlemaster of the Jedi Order, you have:

 

Focused Defense, Enure, Saber Ward, and Saber Reflect.

 

Your damage is also significantly higher too. What abilities do you have on a Jedi Knight at level 10, or even a Jedi Guardian? In the case of Vigilance, Plasma Brand, Master Strike, Blade Storm, Strike, Slash, Sundering Strike, and force sweep. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE HEROIC MOMENT.

 

At 60, you have Plasma Brand, Master Strike (And the reset proc), Overhead Slash, Blade Storm, Dispatch (With procs too!) Strike, Slash, Vigilant Thrust, Unremitting off of Force Leap, and SO MUCH MORE.

 

Tell me how logically these two even are on the same playing field. Look at it backwards. If you have a Level 60 Jedi Guardian, remove all the abilities you've gotten since Level 10. Tell me with a straight face those two are equivalent.

 

Again this is a point where one must differentiate between lore accurate and game play. Either point can be argued with validity on both sides, so dismissing either would be negligent.

 

The BENEFITS of Level Sync?

 

Bioware can do a lot more with Level Sync.

 

Here's why:

 

Imagine in 5.0. Whatever story content comes in 4.0 has passed and besides adding a new planet, Bioware goes,

 

"What if we could have a new questline on older planets that lays the seeds for the main expansion???"

 

In the current system on Live, this would be impossible. You'd run into logistical issues because you'd have random level 65 whatever NPCs attacking random lowbies who don't know what they are doing and stumble upon something they should not stumble upon. We run into a similar problem in 2.0, where the Dreadseed Quests had level 55 enemies that people accidentally stumbled on. We had a similar problem in the Bounty Broker's Event where running by a level 60 fighting a bounty and accidentally whacking it would get you killed.

 

Level Sync eliminates a lot of barriers. Any player can help any other player as long as they both are synced or naturally on level for the planet. You could team up with your Level 15 friend and do his Coruscant Bounty. Say there's a new alien artifact on Alderaan and you need to get it? Before, they'd have to make a new area and make an unintuitive partition. Now, they can just build the area, make it generally fit in with the planet (Or just make it where you can hide certain things while not on pace for the quest), and WHABAM. No random lowbies getting killed.

 

Finally, you can do heroics with friends, kill conquest commanders together (assuming they are downleveled which they probably should be), OW PVP and fight battles against enemies and still be moderately useful, the list goes on and on.

 

Not true. Currently in the game there are multiple instances where you return to a previous planet that is below your level range to take part in a mission (be is dread seeds, class missions, etc.) that has mobs that are within your level range. Saying definitively that level sync will make this possible isn't a fully true statement since they already do this and it doesn't normally (i have wandered into higher level areas with lower level characters too) affect most players.

 

As for saying this would open up a chance for them to send us back to the same planets we already go to all the time, I would venture a statement that most people do not want to just return to previous planets for a few new bits of content; that instead they would rather have new planets to explore instead...it's a huge universe, they only have a tiny bit of it used thus far.

 

Why it should be mandatory

 

"WHY CAN'T I JUST BE OP AND CRUSH EVERYONE ELSE"

-schmuckface

 

Here's why:

 

Number one: If I went to Alderaan and went to a heroic area and was 65, and I wasn't, I could run around trolling everyone by killing the mobs before they kill it. I could kill a World Boss while an 8man ops group was preparing to fight it.

 

A less nefarious use, but still wrong, would be doing a quest at 65, getting to the turn in, turning level sync on, then turning in the quest, then turning level sync back off. You'd literally eliminate any difficulty to leveling on older planets.

 

"Then why can't I just be OP when I'm not doing quests or not doing world bosses or not doing, well, anything?"

 

Why should you be? YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING AT THAT POINT. LITERALLY NOTHING. Also, you're still under the assumption you're actually on level for the content and have the same abilities that you do on level, which, you don't. See point 2.

 

The argument is based on a hypothetical...so...yeah. Trolling happens, on all planets, regardless of; level, gear, skills, etc. Griefing happens, Kill stealing happens; all these things happen without regard of people being higher level. By the same token a raiding party could be organizing and have a whole other raiding party swoop in and steal the world boss from them. Common courtesy is what it boils down to; some people log into a game to go and ruin someone's day, others log in to play the game, still others log in for other reasons. Saying that implementing a mandatory level sync would solve these issues wrong, these things happen in all MMORPG's...it's just a fact of gaming. The only time you don't have that happen is when you have private group instances for open world content.

 

In games that are based on a level system you will always run in to; people blowing off steam by running through old content that they do not have to pay attention to, people farming mobs for items, gear, materials, etc., killing mobs that once took them out or gave them a hard time, etc. These things just take place in games. I have played games that did not have level systems and still ran into people doing this...inputting a mandatory level sync will not fix that.

 

But I'm a Solo Player!

 

If you leveled to 60 alone, you can do it again, except this time you have abilities that literally make you overpowered for the leveling planets. How is this harder? How is this more annoying?

 

Not entirely accurate: If you're leveling a character up fresh you won't be level synced down so you wouldn't be "overpowered" for the planet...it would just be normal. Also, just because you choose to be a solo player or you do not have time to form up a group to do content, does that mean you should be denied to rights to? We already have Operations for that.

[Max_Killjoy]

what about players have physical impairments like me who have cerebral palsy? 3.5 years ago, my coordination was faster in moving my toons. now, i still can fight and dodge aoes but getting there takes me longer. today's playerbase is not as patient and mature to understand my problem like 3.5 years, ago. NOW, i get ignored or shunned. so i solo most things. i group up to help with world boss fights and heroic 2s. they do not require traveling through a maze. RIFT had optional lvl syncing. no one had a problem with it. mandatory lvl syncing down will force me to cut my losses by not going back to lvl 1-50 content. there is no reason to go there except gathering crafting mats.

 

btw - i am far from being lazy. my legacy shows my epic history and i love farming things.

 

That's a far worse position than I find myself in -- I just prefer to be overleveled and solo things because I like the game to be entertaining and relaxing, and don't play games for some kind of faked-up adrenaline rush.

 

But don't worry, you'll be happy to know that neither of us count, I've been told that players like us should leave if we don't like any change Bioware ever makes, or if it's "not the game for us" any more. The game is being made "more fun" and "more relevant" and "more engaging", and we shouldn't stand in the way of progress.

 

[Bakakiba]

That's a far worse position than I find myself in -- I just prefer to be overleveled and solo things because I like the game to be entertaining and relaxing, and don't play games for some kind of faked-up adrenaline rush.

 

But don't worry, you'll be happy to know that neither of us count, I've been told that players like us should leave if we don't like any change Bioware ever makes, or if it's "not the game for us" any more. The game is being made "more fun" and "more relevant" and "more engaging", and we shouldn't stand in the way of progress.

 

 

Hear

?

[Latherfal]

Yay for Level Sync.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

That's a far worse position than I find myself in -- I just prefer to be overleveled and solo things because I like the game to be entertaining and relaxing, and don't play games for some kind of faked-up adrenaline rush.

 

But don't worry, you'll be happy to know that neither of us count, I've been told that players like us should leave if we don't like any change Bioware ever makes, or if it's "not the game for us" any more. The game is being made "more fun" and "more relevant" and "more engaging", and we shouldn't stand in the way of progress.

 

 

Hurrr, y u mad, no more faceroll grays lol?