Darth Nox vs Mace Windu

[cs_zoltan]

The ghosts don't make Nox invincible no matter how much fanboys want to think he is.

/qtqe

 

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Mace-Windu-This-Partys-Over-Samuel-L-Jackson.gif

[DirtyDiggler]

Nox all day

[Rhyltran]

Nox all day

 

I agree. Nox would lose all day.

[cs_zoltan]

I agree. Nox would lose all day.

 

Pfff, like this duel would last that long...

[Rhyltran]

Pfff, like this duel would last that long...

 

It could happen if Windu decides to humble him and not kill him.

[RTCBrad]

While I like Nox A LOT prob my favorite PC from swtor, I really don't see him surviving this one.

 

I don't think it would be a curb stomp as some people seem to suggest Nox is still no pushover, but Windu is going to win regardless.

[RuneJS]

A Sith Dark Council Member with multiple Sith spirits connected to him allowing him to reach a state of extreme power or a Jedi saber artist...?

 

The Sixth Line were move heavy duty and prepared for war then Windu however Nox had no trouble in beating them.

[Rhyltran]

A Sith Dark Council Member with multiple Sith spirits connected to him allowing him to reach a state of extreme power or a Jedi saber artist...?

 

The Sixth Line were move heavy duty and prepared for war then Windu however Nox had no trouble in beating them.

 

Windu is beyond the members of the Sixth Line. Also not each of those spirits = One council member and not all members of the Sith council are amazing. Vowrawn was on the run from Lord Drahg and Drahg used an ability to put Vowrawn out of the fight and useless in one go. Windu would easily be able to take most of the dark council. He could solo his own jedi council aside from Yoda if he wanted to. That alone makes him more dangerous and more powerful than multiple council masters combined.

 

So nox isn't the first one to make a council member look like a child. Drahg did it without eating a bunch of ghosts. Not to mention Windu put up a good fight against Sidious who did just take out the entire Jedi council.

 

Also windu not prepared for war? The man, in an era of peace, with no hint of the sith developed a style that was designed specifically to counter and destroy Dark Side users. I'd consider that being very prepared.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Rhyltran

[sithgreyguard]

which darth nox dps lightning or assassin dps, tank?

[cs_zoltan]

A Sith Dark Council Member with multiple Sith spirits connected to him allowing him to reach a state of extreme power or a Jedi saber artist...?

 

The Sixth Line were move heavy duty and prepared for war then Windu however Nox had no trouble in beating them.

 

I can post overblown, out of context feats as well:

 

Mace has beaten Sidious who is canonically superior to Nox in every way.

 

Game, set, match.

[LordQordisz]

Not quite overblown. His saber game is strong.

[Dagoz]

I can post overblown, out of context feats as well:

 

Mace has beaten Sidious who is canonically superior to Nox in every way.

 

Game, set, match.

 

I'm still mind boggled at how people can misread things so badly they think Mace won against Sidious instead of Sidious simply letting himself be disarmed and backed into a corner so he could cement Anakin's fall. Mace didn't win against Sidious and he wasn't good enough to see or even do ANYTHING against Anakin cutting his hand off. If he was such a good duelist as this thread tries to state, if he was so powerful and amazing, he could have done something to dodge or block Anakin yet he didnt.

 

Also why do you people keep arguing canon vs Legends?

[cs_zoltan]

I'm still mind boggled at how people can misread things so badly they think Mace won against Sidious instead of Sidious simply letting himself be disarmed and backed into a corner so he could cement Anakin's fall. Mace didn't win against Sidious and he wasn't good enough to see or even do ANYTHING against Anakin cutting his hand off.

Maybe you should re-read my post again, more thoroughly. Here, I underline the important part:

I can post overblown, out of context feats as well:

 

Mace has beaten Sidious who is canonically superior to Nox in every way.

 

Game, set, match.

 

If he was such a good duelist as this thread tries to state, if he was so powerful and amazing, he could have done something to dodge or block Anakin yet he didnt.

He was the second most powerful jedi up until RotS, I'm sure he is not powerful or amazing

[Rhyltran]

I'm still mind boggled at how people can misread things so badly they think Mace won against Sidious instead of Sidious simply letting himself be disarmed and backed into a corner so he could cement Anakin's fall. Mace didn't win against Sidious and he wasn't good enough to see or even do ANYTHING against Anakin cutting his hand off. If he was such a good duelist as this thread tries to state, if he was so powerful and amazing, he could have done something to dodge or block Anakin yet he didnt.

 

Also why do you people keep arguing canon vs Legends?

 

SWTOR is legends. Legends mace has far more feats than Nox. Also Lucas outright stated that Windu won the lightsaber contest. Sidious didn't let himself get disarmed but he did let Windu win. When he began using his force lightning the moment Windu was able to lose his lightsaber Anakin stepped in the room and Sidious feigned weakness and stopped his barrage. You're right from there Windu was going to lose but up until that point Windu was holding his own.

 

Given that Sidious was a master swordsman as well as he was at the use of the dark side this is still impressive. In saber play alone Sidious annihilated the entire Jedi council. He was well adept at amplifying his body with the force and he had mastered (not just proficient but actually mastered) all seven forms of lightsaber combat. Windu was able to defeat him in saber combat meaning that he too could likely have solo'd the entire Jedi council at that point (aside from Yoda.)

 

Windu was the second most powerful Jedi of his age. He didn't block Anakin because he didn't think Anakin would stoop so low as to actually defend Sidious. It's called being caught unaware.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Faardor]

A Sith Dark Council Member with multiple Sith spirits connected to him allowing him to reach a state of extreme power or a Jedi saber artist...?

 

its been a while since I did the inq story but the last one I did was lightside in which the ghosts I believe are stronger than the dark side nox ghosts since willingly taking ghosts grants more power vs forcefully taking the ghosts. Not only that but I also remember something along the lines of "The power ghosts give you becomes weaker as time progresses" paraphrasing obviously.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Faardor

[Fyurii]

Windu. Hands down.

 

This.

There was almost no point continuing on past this answer at all.

 

I say almost, because the only thing more pointless was the initial question.

[Iona_Var]

I think a closer duel would be Nox vs Zannah, since both aren't terribly skilled with lightsabers and draw on their force powers quite a bit.

[Samsp]

I'm fairly certain windu would win.... Nox doesn't really hold a candle to him.

 

Maybe. I think Darth Nox may win the fight. But whoever wins, it will be an interesting fight.

[AshlaBoga]

Nox loses if Windu is within 30 meters of Nox.

 

So I got to give this to Windu.

Edited October 11, 2015 by AshlaBoga

[Dagoz]

Maybe you should re-read my post again, more thoroughly. Here, I underline the important part:

 

 

 

He was the second most powerful jedi up until RotS, I'm sure he is not powerful or amazing

 

You're not the only one I was referring to about thinking Mace won. I take G-canon with a grain of salt as he went senile a while back. Either way, Anakin was *the* most Force powerful and connected being in the PT. He was literally created by the Force and had higher midi count than Yoda. Pure Force strength, Anakin beats everyone even Sidious and Yoda, however he wasn't trained enough nor had enough experience to use that connection he had properly, before it was lessened by his loss of limbs and blood, and therefore midichlorians.

 

My point was you make it all sound like Mace is da best evurrrrr!!!!11 when in reality he never had a chance to put his "amazing" skills in anything to the test against a worthy foe. PT era and before was peaceful. No Sith for a long time. Windu may have thought he was ready with his darkside bs, but he obviously wasn't.

 

There's also nothing stopping SWTOR or KOTOR being made canon later on. With the rest of Legends, they're pretty much all contradictory and can't be used except small details. AFAIK TOR doesn't conflict with canon so it has the best chance. None of the other stuff you're arguing about is canon tho.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Dagoz

[cs_zoltan]

My point was you make it all sound like Mace is da best evurrrrr!!!!11

 

Not the best, but one of the best ever for sure. Like I said many times he was the second most powerful jedi up until Anakin grew more powerful. He was also arguably the 3rd best duelist behind Yoda and Sidious (tied with Dooku).

If that doesn't make someone amazing I don't know what does. Point is Nox is out of her depth...

[Dagoz]

Not the best, but one of the best ever for sure. Like I said many times he was the second most powerful jedi up until Anakin grew more powerful. He was also arguably the 3rd best duelist behind Yoda and Sidious (tied with Dooku).

If that doesn't make someone amazing I don't know what does. Point is Nox is out of her depth...

 

I keep wondering how people are comparing the strength of force users during PT and PT to force users thousands of years ago. What exactly makes Windu better at sword fighting than say, Freedon Nadd? Or Exar Kun? Or any of the ancient Sith that as Kreia said "make the best duelist in the galaxy look like children playing with toys"? Think about it for a second. Ancient jedi and Sith were constantly fighting eachother, using powerful and advanced techniques. Apparently most of that knowledge was lost between TOR and ABY, cuz no one displays any knowledge of advanced techniques except Yoda and Sidious. And I don't consider lightning or absorption very advanced compared to some of the stuff our characters can do.

 

How does anyone know Mace was the best ever if he never fought against anyone but the *current* best saber wielders? They don't. And again anything George has said about it I generally disregard as despite building the underlying universe for SW, most of his ideas for it sucked and still do. The other people in charge of deciding lore for SW is what made the he universe great, not Lunas spewing his garbage. Nox knows 100x more about the Force than Windu or even Yoda.

[cs_zoltan]

I keep wondering how people are comparing the strength of force users during PT and PT to force users thousands of years ago. What exactly makes Windu better at sword fighting than say, Freedon Nadd? Or Exar Kun? Or any of the ancient Sith that as Kreia said "make the best duelist in the galaxy look like children playing with toys"? Think about it for a second. Ancient jedi and Sith were constantly fighting eachother, using powerful and advanced techniques. Apparently most of that knowledge was lost between TOR and ABY, cuz no one displays any knowledge of advanced techniques except Yoda and Sidious. And I don't consider lightning or absorption very advanced compared to some of the stuff our characters can do.

 

How does anyone know Mace was the best ever if he never fought against anyone but the *current* best saber wielders? They don't. And again anything George has said about it I generally disregard as despite building the underlying universe for SW, most of his ideas for it sucked and still do. The other people in charge of deciding lore for SW is what made the he universe great, not Lunas spewing his garbage.

 

We know this from outside canon sources, which is a hella lot more accurate than Traya's opinion on people she never actually met.

 

Alongside Mace Windu, with whom he served on the Jedi Council, Yoda was the most respected and most powerful Master ever to have walked the corridors of the Jedi Temple.

—Star Wars Fact Files

 

Jedi Master Mace Windu is regarded as one of the greatest lightsaber-wielders of the Old Republic.

—The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded

 

Which would leave Mace and Agen Kolar—both among the greatest bladesbeings the Jedi Order had ever produced—here on Coruscant in case Sidious did indeed take this opportunity to make a dramatic move.

—Revenge of the Sith

 

Now Obi-Wan did face him. "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."

—Revenge of the Sith

 

We also know that he is on equal terms with Dooku and Yoda:

 

Only Masters Yoda and Mace Windu were considered to be on equal terms with him [Dooku].

—Star Wars Databank

 

And Yoda was the best duelist up until his time (at least):

 

Master Yoda is reputed to be the greatest lightsaber master ever. Don't tell me you never had a fighting class with him?

—The Approaching Storm

 

Nox knows 100x more about the Force than Windu or even Yoda.

You just lost the last shred of my respect I could've had. If you want to be a biased, uneducated illiterate then be my guest. But I'm not interested in proving you wrong every time you try to claim something obvious is wrong...

Edited October 11, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Dagoz]

We know this from outside canon sources, which is a hella lot more accurate than Traya's opinion on people she never actually met.

 

Alongside Mace Windu, with whom he served on the Jedi Council, Yoda was the most respected and most powerful Master ever to have walked the corridors of the Jedi Temple.

—Star Wars Fact Files

 

Jedi Master Mace Windu is regarded as one of the greatest lightsaber-wielders of the Old Republic.

—The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded

 

Which would leave Mace and Agen Kolar—both among the greatest bladesbeings the Jedi Order had ever produced—here on Coruscant in case Sidious did indeed take this opportunity to make a dramatic move.

—Revenge of the Sith

 

Now Obi-Wan did face him. "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."

—Revenge of the Sith

 

We also know that he is on equal terms with Dooku and Yoda:

 

Only Masters Yoda and Mace Windu were considered to be on equal terms with him [Dooku].

—Star Wars Databank

 

And Yoda was the best duelist up until his time (at least):

 

Master Yoda is reputed to be the greatest lightsaber master ever. Don't tell me you never had a fighting class with him?

—The Approaching Storm

 

 

You just lost the last shred of my respect I could've had. If you want to be a biased, uneducated illiterate then be my guest. But I'm not interested in proving you wrong every time you try to claim something obvious is wrong...

 

So outside of canon he's the best duelist ever? What a stupid argument then. Again, I consider SWTOR part canon, so maybe that's why I keep arguing this with you, but if you consider TOR and Disney-Canon the only real SW lore, then I'm correct and none of your sources mean diddly squat unless they are canon. If you discount TOR as canon, then the only fact is that Mace is *considered* *one* of the best of THAT ERA. Not *all time*.

 

Some of your sources even contradict. "Master Yoda is reputed to be the greatest lightsaber master ever" /=/ "Only Masters Yoda and Mace Windu were considered to be on equal terms with him [Dooku]". And if you're dragging Dooku into this as on par with Yoda and Mace, then you'd best make Anakin on par too, cuz he killed Dooku, AND cut off Mace's hand. I just see too many contradictions.

 

Sidious beat Yoda, causing him to flee from the Senate building, so Sidious is stronger than Yoda. However, you and others in this thread then claim Mace is better than Sidious and Sidious lost to him. So now Mace is better than Yoda by this line of logic, but Mace and Yoda are supposed to be at *least* equal.

 

I really don't care if me explaining to you that ancient and commonly known Force techniques were lost and became secrets by the time Yoda and the PT came along causes you to lose respect for me. How am I uneducated or illiterate? Why personal attacks? You have to remember this was in a time where Force ghosts were so common NORMAL people knew about them, the Force was so common everyone in the Galaxy knew about it, and new and amazing abilities were being discovered or created all the time, because they actually had study into it. Those Force users would have an incredibly extensive knowledge of the Force and all it's applications. It was an academic field. In the PT most people don't believe in the Force anymore and not even the Jedi believe Force ghosts can exist, AT ALL! (which is also contradicting within the canon, as Yoda met Bane's Force Ghost in the Clone Wars cartoon, claimed he existed no longer and then Bane disappeared. How come you cant do the same to Qui-Gon's ghost? I call BS.)

 

If this vs argument considers all the actually really stupid EU stuff that makes Mary Sue characters, sure Mace Windu(OEU) might win.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Dagoz

[Rhyltran]

So outside of canon he's the best duelist ever? What a stupid argument then. Again, I consider SWTOR part canon, so maybe that's why I keep arguing this with you, but if you consider TOR and Disney-Canon the only real SW lore, then I'm correct and none of your sources mean diddly squat unless they are canon. If you discount TOR as canon, then the only fact is that Mace is *considered* *one* of the best of THAT ERA. Not *all time*.

 

Some of your sources even contradict. "Master Yoda is reputed to be the greatest lightsaber master ever" /=/ "Only Masters Yoda and Mace Windu were considered to be on equal terms with him [Dooku]". And if you're dragging Dooku into this as on par with Yoda and Mace, then you'd best make Anakin on par too, cuz he killed Dooku, AND cut off Mace's hand. I just see too many contradictions.

 

Sidious beat Yoda, causing him to flee from the Senate building, so Sidious is stronger than Yoda. However, you and others in this thread then claim Mace is better than Sidious and Sidious lost to him. So now Mace is better than Yoda by this line of logic, but Mace and Yoda are supposed to be at *least* equal.

 

I really don't care if me explaining to you that ancient and commonly known Force techniques were lost and became secrets by the time Yoda and the PT came along causes you to lose respect for me. How you consider ME uneducated and illiterate for correctly surmising that in a time where Force ghosts were so common NORMAL people knew about them, the Force was so common everyone in the Galaxy knew about it, and new and amazing abilities were being discovered or created all the time, because they actually had study into it, those Force users would have an incredibly extensive knowledge of the Force and all it's applications. It was an academic field. In the PT they don't even believe Force ghosts can exist, AT ALL! (which is also contradicting within the canon, as Yoda met Bane's Force Ghost in the Clone Wars cartoon, claimed he existed no longer and then Bane disappeared. How come you cant do the same to Qui-Gon's ghost? I call BS.)

 

If this vs argument considers all the actually really stupid EU stuff that makes Mary Sue characters, sure Mace Windu(OEU) might win.

 

They weren't lost to the Jedi. The Jedi had been collecting holocrons, sith and Jedi alike, everytime they found them. Then they were put into the archives. The Jedi temple has stood for thousands of years by this point which means it has thousands of years of teaching that still survive to that day. Sidious is stated out of universe to be the greatest dark side master in the history of the sith and it's order. Zoltan isn't just arguing in favor of disney canon as these quotes existed even in the past. Dooku was defeated, if you read the novel, because he couldn't withstand anakin's power. His very blows and power were driving him back. Being more powerful has nothing to do with being more skilled.

 

The Prequel era is considered the golden age of the Jedi by George Lucas. So yes some of the strongest Jedi in the history of the order were during that time period. They've been building up thousands of years of light side teachings and many were still coming up with new powers (Electric Judgement being one of them.). Sidious killed the Jedi masters in the temple because he was moving so fast they couldn't even keep up with him. Also Yoda disarmed Sidious in a contest with a lightsaber. Windu defeated Sidious in a lightsaber contest and it's in canon that Sidious is the best lightsaber master among the sith. You know what this means? Windu and Yoda could beat ANY Sith in a lightsaber contest.

 

The speed at which they attributed to Mace and Sidious.. there is no proof anywhere that Nox could keep up with it. There's no proof that Nox can keep up with someone who can move so quickly a normal jedi masters eyes can't/barely follow. Nox would be blitzed.

 

Before you try to claim Zoltan thinks this or that about Disney Canon why not ask Zoltan his opinion of Windu versus Vitiate? I doubt he'll argue Vitiate being less powerful than Windu but this isn't that argument. It's Nox, who isn't even close to being on Revan's level suddenly being a match for Mace. Nox isn't the most powerful force user of his own era. Not even close. I can name several off the top of my head. George Lucas also stated that in order to take on Sidious you "Need to be mace or Yoda." So no dooku isn't there. Mace and Yoda were the only ones in their era to be able to take on Sidious. Yoda because he was the most powerful Jedi until this era and Mace for his mastery of Vaapad and his reknown as a swordsman.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Rhyltran